Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain]I still think we should pursue the Ramsey for Abraham & the Jets 1st round pick.[/QUOTE]
Wait, you guys are talkng like this whole "Ramsey's gone" thing is not just a giant hoax. Seriously, you think Patrick is gone? Really? No!?!

Dammit, what are the chances of getting Tim Hasselback back? How 'bout just getting back his hottie of a wife?

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]So basically you're saying that the 50-60 snaps in the preseasons of 2004 and 2005 won the job for Brunell and the 16 games of 2004 regular season "fair and open competition" between the two QBs didn't carry much weight. Is that it?[/QUOTE]

I'm saying that from what Joe Gibbs has seen, and there's been plenty of evidence from game tapes of Ramsey since 2002, Brunell was the better option at the time.

Look, I was a fan of Ramsey. I rooted for him. But don't you think if there was truly anything to this guy we would have seen it by now? Or at the very least, that Gibbs would have spotted it?

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]I'm saying that from what Joe Gibbs has seen, and there's been plenty of evidence from game tapes of Ramsey since 2002, Brunell was the better option at the time.

Look, I was a fan of Ramsey. I rooted for him. But don't you think if there was truly anything to this guy we would have seen it by now? Or at the very least, that Gibbs would have spotted it?[/QUOTE]

He proved he was our best QB for three years running and he was improving with each game. He outplayed Weurful, Matthews and Brunell. He was 10-13 as a starter while we were 8 -17 in games he didn't start over those three years.

Maybe he didn't show you and Joe Gibbs much. Maybe you expected a young QB to do more. With the lack of supporting talent and the unprofessional offensive schemes he worked with in those years, I didn't.

Now, soon, we'll start all over...living with young Jason Campbell's mistakes. We're going into 2006 with a roster that is loaded except at the most important QB position.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]But don't you think if there was truly anything to this guy we would have seen it by now? Or at the very least, that Gibbs would have spotted it?[/QUOTE]

No, apparently a handful of armchair coaches can spot Ramsey's genius sitting at home on the couch as opposed to a Hall of Fame coach who has seen him up close and personal for the past 2 years and knows more about him than we ever will.

:yeahright

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]No, apparently a handful of armchair coaches can spot Ramsey's genius sitting at home on the couch as opposed to a Hall of Fame coach who has seen him up close and personal for the past 2 years and knows more about him than we ever will.

:yeahright[/QUOTE]

Yeah. I have to admit that's the one argument you can make that makes any sense. Joe's a HOF coach. He knows best.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]Yeah. I have to admit that's the one argument you can make that makes any sense. Joe's a HOF coach. He knows best.[/QUOTE]
Yeah - Silly us just looking at Brunnell's 23 TD and 11 Int's last season.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]No, apparently a handful of armchair coaches can spot Ramsey's genius sitting at home on the couch as opposed to a Hall of Fame coach who has seen him up close and personal for the past 2 years and knows more about him than we ever will.

:yeahright[/QUOTE]

Well we all know there's at least one person here who has insisted time and again that nearly all the GMs around the league see something in Ramsey that Gibbs doesn't and Ramsey needs to be saved before Gibbs does any more damage to him than he already has...and yet teams don't seem to be banging down our door clamoring for Ramsey.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin]Yeah - Silly us just looking at Brunnell's 23 TD and 11 Int's last season.[/QUOTE]

If you are impressed by that stat and can ignore that we were forced to rely almost completely on the running game late in the season because Mark's very limited game was easily defensed by our opponent's over the second half of the season, then I certainly wouldn't deny you your bliss.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]Well we all know there's at least one person here who has insisted time and again that nearly all the GMs around the league see something in Ramsey that Gibbs doesn't and Ramsey needs to be saved before Gibbs does any more damage to him than he already has...and yet teams don't seem to be banging down our door clamoring for Ramsey.[/QUOTE]

This is a circular argument.

Joe Gibbs drove down Ramsey's value, not by word but by deed.

Now, you argue that Joe Gibbs is proven right because he apparently doesn't have much value.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]If you are impressed by that stat and can ignore that we were forced to rely almost completely on the running game late in the season because Mark's very limited game was easily defensed by our opponent's over the second half of the season, then I certainly wouldn't deny you your bliss.[/QUOTE]

I think the slump we all saw during the last few games of '06 were a combination of things. I believe first and foremost that it was due to the injury of Randy Thomas. Clinton Portis was nicked up too. Then, you had a gameplan that basically had two receiving options -- Moss and Cooley. At some point, you had to figure that tougher, playoff bound defenses were bound to exploit those weaknesses. And yes, Mark Brunell on the whole seemed to slightly burn out.

Ideally, Jason Campbell has to really light it up for the upcoming preseason. He'll make it a whole lot easier on all of us if he simply takes charge, and shows the coaching staff that there's no reason [I]not[/I] to start him.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]I think the slump we all saw during the last few games of '06 were a combination of things. I believe first and foremost that it was due to the injury of Randy Thomas. Clinton Portis was nicked up too. Then, you had a gameplan that basically had two receiving options -- Moss and Cooley. At some point, you had to figure that tougher, playoff bound defenses were bound to exploit those weaknesses. And yes, Mark Brunell on the whole seemed to slightly burn out.

Ideally, Jason Campbell has to really light it up for the upcoming preseason. He'll make it a whole lot easier on all of us if he simply takes charge, and shows the coaching staff that there's no reason [i]not[/i] to start him.[/QUOTE]

Except for the Tampa Bay game, the slump in the passing game began after the San Francisco game and it was certainly not all Mark Brunell's fault. However, his penchant for flushing quickly from the pocket to roll left and throw short made it easy on the defenders. Mark did that in Jacksonville for years but back then he was a real threat to run the football.

I agree that Jason Campbell is the key to our fortunes next season. He's going to have a better system and more weapons to work with than Big Ben has at Pittsburgh. If he's the real deal, he has to start.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]If you are impressed by that stat and can ignore that we were forced to rely almost completely on the running game late in the season because Mark's very limited game was easily defensed by our opponent's over the second half of the season, then I certainly wouldn't deny you your bliss.[/QUOTE]

First - That's a damn good stat no matter how you cut it. Ramsey in 3 years never approached those ratios. Would he have in last year's offense? We'll never know but my bet is no. I loved the guy and was pulling for him hard. But the light just never seemed to go on and stay on. For every beautiful throw and good decision there was always one or two that just made you say - "WTF were you thinking??"

Second - I don't disagree that Brunnell had his issues and that it appeared he was pretty easily defensed later in the year. How much of that was Mark, how much was it that his first deep option was constantly doubled and tripled and his second deep option consisted of Taylor "What do you want me to do, Fight to get open??" Jacobs and Jimmy "Arena League, Here I come!" Farris?

Ramsey's a good kid and truthfully I would love to have him as our back-up this year. But for all concerned that is just not likely. I wish him well, we should get what we can and send him someplace where he has a chance to start. Personally, I would love to see him go to and succeed in Oakland.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=Huddle]This is a circular argument.

Joe Gibbs drove down Ramsey's value, not by word but by deed.

Now, you argue that Joe Gibbs is proven right because he apparently doesn't have much value.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps. But let's say he started Ramsey from day one in 2004. And Ramsey tanked with the rest of the offense while they all got their act together (players and coaches). That wouldn't do much for his value. At least to some extent Ramsey still has the allure of "untapped potential" because he hasn't played all that much, compared to say Joey Harrington.

Anyhow, all I was getting at is that some people on this site (before you joined) have been adamant that Gibbs has something personal against Ramsey and that Gibbs is ignorant to the vast talent Ramsey has. That all around the league GMs see it, and even former GMs who are now analysts see it. But Gibbs doesn't.

That's all I was saying

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin]First - That's a damn good stat no matter how you cut it. Ramsey in 3 years never approached those ratios. Would he have in last year's offense? We'll never know but my bet is no. I loved the guy and was pulling for him hard. But the light just never seemed to go on and stay on. For every beautiful throw and good decision there was always one or two that just made you say - "WTF were you thinking??"

Second - I don't disagree that Brunnell had his issues and that it appeared he was pretty easily defensed later in the year. How much of that was Mark, how much was it that his first deep option was constantly doubled and tripled and his second deep option consisted of Taylor "What do you want me to do, Fight to get open??" Jacobs and Jimmy "Arena League, Here I come!" Farris?

Ramsey's a good kid and truthfully I would love to have him as our back-up this year. But for all concerned that is just not likely. I wish him well, we should get what we can and send him someplace where he has a chance to start. Personally, I would love to see him go to and succeed in Oakland.[/QUOTE]

Except that I think he'd give us the best combination of talent and experience to run this year's offense, I agree completely with your post.

Re: Who starts at QB?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]Perhaps. But let's say he started Ramsey from day one in 2004. And Ramsey tanked with the rest of the offense while they all got their act together (players and coaches). That wouldn't do much for his value. At least to some extent Ramsey still has the allure of "untapped potential" because he hasn't played all that much, compared to say Joey Harrington.

Anyhow, all I was getting at is that some people on this site (before you joined) have been adamant that Gibbs has something personal against Ramsey and that Gibbs is ignorant to the vast talent Ramsey has. That all around the league GMs see it, and even former GMs who are now analysts see it. But Gibbs doesn't.

That's all I was saying[/QUOTE]

I understand and agree for the most part.

I don't think we really have any idea at this point what GMs around the league think of Patrick.

They know he wants to start and won't resign himself at this point in his career to backing up their high-priced number one.

They know he won't sign an extension unless it's someplace he wants to be. So, a trade with the Redskins buys them a QB playing out his 1.7 mil contract for one year. That's not worth much.

The interesting thing is that, after Culpepper and Brees, he's drawn more interest than any of the other 30 or so QBs who are UFAs and available without costing a pick.