Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=celts32;442345]If it were a 1 and a 3 in this draft it would be close to his value considering where we are picking. [b]However, the conditions that will turn this into a #1 pick next year are very attainable for him[/b]. It's just to much...if we are trading 2 #1 picks then I want someone younger who can play 8+ years for me.
[/quote]

I'm starting to swing towards it being too steep a price, but there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY for you to say that "the conditions that will turn this into a #1 pick next year are very attainable for him" because no one knows what those conditions are except for the Redskins and Bengals. I sure haven't heard details. If you know something let us know.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;442330]I get it, you're against Johnson and that's fine and completely understandable. I just didn't understand why you seemed to be trying to insinuate that by trading that pick we wouldn't be able to address the OL.[/quote]

because some people are adament that we use the first pick on a O-lineman or a DE/DL. I wonder how they will feel if a WR is picked in the draft. or a Safety.

Some people want [B]youth. [/B]So they are against an older WR.

Some people are worried about the [B]chemistry[/B]. Like CJ will come in here and this whole team is going to blow up...ie; Arrington. Just like how he blew up the defense and the teams sucked after. Oh wait that didn't happen. Maybe I meant Archelleta.....wait, no he didn't blow up the team either. I know I meant Lloyd because most of the 49er fans said he would come in and destroy what we had and they were glad to get rid of him...wait that didn't happen either.

Sometimes having chemistry means leaving a team that has none and going to a team that has it...ie; Randy Moss, T.O. . What happens if we do get CJ and he's a scoring machine and enables Moss and Randel El or Cooley to score more points simply because teams have to double him? Will we still be on the forget CJ bandwagon?

OL-Bugel is the best a developing OL. He doesn't need the 1st round pick.
DE/DL-At this point any big body will do. Someone to spell our starters.
CB/S-We can find in the 3rd round. Big draft class.
WR-The Skins have not faired well in drafting WR. Hixon is not a developer.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=celts32;442345]If it were a 1 and a 3 in this draft it would be close to his value considering where we are picking. However, the conditions that will turn this into a #1 pick next year are very attainable for him. It's just to much...if we are trading 2 #1 picks then I want someone younger who can play 8+ years for me.

There are very few players in the league worth 2 #1 picks...based on age and production in my opinion the ony WR's worth that compensation are Fitzgerald & Braylon Edwards. Maybe I left one out but basically it has to be a young pro bowler IMO.[/quote]

I'm lost.....CJ had better production then both of those....have you looked at NFL.COM's 2007 WR ranking list? CJ came in #3. The two WR in front of him were Reggie Wayne and Randy Moss. Fitz came in #4 and Edwards cam in #7. So I guess production is out you must be talking about [B]youth[/B].

We won't get the #1 WR. He will probably start on a team who needs a WR. We may get lucky enough to get the #3-#4 on the list. I doubt the WR at 3 or 4 will start immediatly. Unless he is so much better then Moss, Randel El, Thrash. He will have so much to learn on this team from the plays to the blocking schemes to the NFL speed. Something CJ already knows and only has to learn the play calls.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;442347]Alright we're going in circles again. Let's just say we traded for Johnson. With 8 picks remaining, why could we not still address the lines and bring in hungry young players as you say and in theory have the best of both worlds?? I'm just not understanding your logic.

Acquiring CJ would not mean that the draft is doomed.[/quote]

Again your are not getting what they are saying....the 1st round pick is the only one that matters....the rest are just camp fodder. LOL.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

Yea CJ is worth the 1st & 3rd hell if it turns into a 1st next year he did his job but I think that this deal will go through sooner or later. I bet if they add Betts to the equation we could have a deal sooner.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[QUOTE=SBXVII;442352]because some people are adament that we use the first pick on a O-lineman or a DE/DL. I wonder how they will feel if a WR is picked in the draft. or a Safety.

Some people want [B]youth. [/B]So they are against an older WR.

Some people are worried about the [B]chemistry[/B]. Like CJ will come in here and this whole team is going to blow up...ie; Arrington. Just like how he blew up the defense and the teams sucked after. Oh wait that didn't happen. Maybe I meant Archelleta.....wait, no he didn't blow up the team either. I know I meant Lloyd because most of the 49er fans said he would come in and destroy what we had and they were glad to get rid of him...wait that didn't happen either.

Sometimes having chemistry means leaving a team that has none and going to a team that has it...ie; Randy Moss, T.O. . What happens if we do get CJ and he's a scoring machine and enables Moss and Randel El or Cooley to score more points simply because teams have to double him? Will we still be on the forget CJ bandwagon?

OL-Bugel is the best a developing OL. He doesn't need the 1st round pick.
DE/DL-At this point any big body will do. Someone to spell our starters.
CB/S-We can find in the 3rd round. Big draft class.
WR-The Skins have not faired well in drafting WR. Hixon is not a developer.[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying we absolutely, positively MUST draft an offensive lineman with our first-round pick. First, we have greater positions of need than wide receiver. Secondly, this team is full of stars with VERY little in the way of back-ups because we haven't taken the draft seriously enough to develop back-ups in case of emergencies -- back-ups who very well could become starters. This is what made Joe Gibbs' first Redskins teams so great. All we've done since 2000 is field "all-star" teams with LaVar Arrington, Chris Samuels, Clinton Portis and Santana Moss, and going after "sexy" picks (Snyder wanted Ted Ginn, Jr., before Williams talked him off the ledge so we could select LaRon Landry), while not really taking the rest of the draft seriously enough to consider back-ups for the long term. That strategy has netted us a grand total of one playoff win. For the first time in a LONG time, this team has a bounty of draft picks that could be use to get guys who, conceiveably, start immediately or, at the very least, become dependable back-ups -- something this team doesn't have right now.

What happens when the offensive line suffers more injuries? What happens if Andre Carter, again, becomes our only pass-rusher or, God forbid, falls off from last year's pace. What happens if Washington and McIntosh become injured again? What happens if age finally catches up to Springs, Rogers doesn't return healthy and Reed Doughty isn't the man to success Sean Taylor? These are all questions that could be answered with a solid draft performance better than having an elite wide receiver who won't be able to counter all these other deficiencies by himself.

[QUOTE=SBXVII;442360]Again your are not getting what they are saying....the 1st round pick is the only one that matters....the rest are just camp fodder. LOL.[/QUOTE]

See what I said above. That attitude is what has hurt this franchise more than anything else. ALL of the Giants draft picks played and contributed mightlily throughout the season. When was the last time the Redskins could make that claim? That "camp fodder" could very well represent future starters if not solid back-ups. We need to get off being "star-struck" and really, really get into the business of putting a FULL football team together.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[QUOTE=SC Skins Fan;442346]For anyone keeping score at home. You have now posted 31 messages in this thread, and 8 messages in the "Ocho Stinko" thread. Meaning 31% of your posts to date have been finding ways to say you don't want Chad Johnson on the team. Are there really 39 different ways to say that?

Edit: For the sake of fairness, I have now posted 16 times in this mind-numbing thread, or nearly 2% of my total post count. "Every time I think I'm out they pull me back in ..."[/QUOTE]

If it bothers you that much, just block out my posts. I will agree to disagree with you.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

If this team is so short on depth how the hell did they manage to survive all the injuries last year to make the playoffs?

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

i would trade our 1st and a 3rd for CJ or id just wait a year or so before we make a big splash in FA/trade again when 1 big time contract player might be what we need to be a SB contender. either way this goes down i see it as a positive for the skins.

no chad we keep some salary cap money for next year, get chad now and make salary moves/restructuring to allow us to add another big time player next offseason. either way we have the ability to be a SB contender in a year or two.

go skins!

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;442388]If this team is so short on depth how the hell did they manage to survive all the injuries last year to make the playoffs?[/QUOTE]

If this team had adequate depth, why didn't it win the Super Bowl?

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=KB24;442396]If this team had adequate depth, why didn't it win the Super Bowl?[/quote]

I guess only the Giants have adequate depth then? Your arguments are getting weaker. I think you might have run out of things to say on this single topic ...

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

I have heard a few different versions of this trade offer.. one i also heard is that the Bengals made the offer to the Redskins and we turned them down..

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[QUOTE=SC Skins Fan;442399]I guess only the Giants have adequate depth then? Your arguments are getting weaker. I think you might have run out of things to say on this single topic ...[/QUOTE]

Your rebuttals are getting weaker. I never said "only the Giants have adequate depth." I just think people are fooling themselves if they think the Redskins are just a player away from being a Super Bowl winner.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=KB24;442401]Your rebuttals are getting weaker. I never said "only the Giants have adequate depth." I just think people are fooling themselves if they think the Redskins are just a player away from being a Super Bowl winner.[/quote]

We really need an icon with a emoticon standing there and then the word "point" flying over its head. I would use that all the time.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=Darrell_Green_28;442400]I have heard a few different versions of this trade offer.. one i also heard is that the Bengals made the offer to the Redskins and we turned them down..[/quote]

if true, that's cool. I've only read the last few pages of this thread cause it's huge, so I hope this hasn't been said already. This is what I hope the truth is:

Danny & Vinny are allowing the media to carry this story to drive up the price if the Iggles & Boys become serious.

One way this could've developed is that Danny might've said to the bengals "suppose I offer you 2 picks, 1st & 3rd" but not actually offerred it. Then the bengals said no, it's leaked to the papers as an "offer" but in reality was just part of a discussion. It happens all the time in negotiations that someone will throw an idea out to gauge the price, that doesn't mean a tangible offer is made.

Another possibility is that the Skins knew the bengals would rebuff the offer due to the cap hit, so they throw it out now, draft a wr, then after June 1 if the bengals are willing to deal, they barter the price down based on the fact that they drafted a wr, the cap hit is lower & that CJ's value has declined to us.

Unfortunately, it looks like from what we've heard over several months that the Skins are interested in CJ. I don't doubt that he is still a major impact player, but the cost is high & he's a loose cannon. I also hope cincy sticks to its word & lets him hold out, then fines him if he comes back.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=freddyg12;442408]if true, that's cool. I've only read the last few pages of this thread cause it's huge, so I hope this hasn't been said already. This is what I hope the truth is:

Danny & Vinny are allowing the media to carry this story to drive up the price if the Iggles & Boys become serious.

One way this could've developed is that Danny might've said to the bengals "suppose I offer you 2 picks, 1st & 3rd" but not actually offerred it. Then the bengals said no, it's leaked to the papers as an "offer" but in reality was just part of a discussion. It happens all the time in negotiations that someone will throw an idea out to gauge the price, that doesn't mean a tangible offer is made.

Another possibility is that the Skins knew the bengals would rebuff the offer due to the cap hit, so they throw it out now, draft a wr, then after June 1 if the bengals are willing to deal, they barter the price down based on the fact that they drafted a wr, the cap hit is lower & that CJ's value has declined to us.

Unfortunately, it looks like from what we've heard over several months that the Skins are interested in CJ. I don't doubt that he is still a major impact player, but the cost is high & he's a loose cannon. I also hope cincy sticks to its word & lets him hold out, then fines him if he comes back.[/quote]

I think that is a bit too 'cloak and dagger', but nonetheless the result is the same. The Redskins effectively set the market for Chad Johnson and if the Eagles or Cowboys did want to make a play they would have to come bigger than the offer reportedly on the table from the Redskins. If nothing else it might preclude those other teams from making a strong play, or at worst force them to give up, say, a 1st and 2nd in this years draft (as Pat Kirwan has suggested on NFL.com). I said something to that effect on like page 7 [URL]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/locker-room/23256-offer-made-chad-1st-rd-7.html#post441544[/URL], but you said it clearer (but I don't think it was a fake offer, the offer was real, but the result was the same).

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=KB24;442396]If this team had adequate depth, why didn't it win the Super Bowl?[/quote]

So using this logic depth is only adequate enough if you win the SB??

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;442410]So using this logic depth is only adequate enough if you win the SB??[/quote]

Don't question that logic Matty, I already tried (see previous page) it is no use.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

I'm a results-oriented person. Our strategy of giving up draft picks to acquire big stars has netted us one playoff win since 2000. All I'm saying is that, maybe instead on relying on other teams' stars and sacrificing draft picks, potential future solid performers and salary-cap space, we should try taking all these draft picks we have and using them on young players who, if they aren't starting come September 4, will serve as adequate back-ups upon whom we can rely instead of having to go to the waiver wire or switch players from their natural positions, a la Todd Wade and Lorenzo Alexander.

If we acquire Chad Johnson and he leads us to a Super Bowl, I'll be the first to eat my words. I'm just leery of seeing the Skins once again sink so much into one player when we're not one player away from being a serious Super Bowl contender.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=freddyg12;442408]if true, that's cool. I've only read the last few pages of this thread cause it's huge, so I hope this hasn't been said already. This is what I hope the truth is:

Danny & Vinny are allowing the media to carry this story to drive up the price if the Iggles & Boys become serious.

One way this could've developed is that Danny might've said to the bengals "suppose I offer you 2 picks, 1st & 3rd" but not actually offerred it. Then the bengals said no, it's leaked to the papers as an "offer" but in reality was just part of a discussion. It happens all the time in negotiations that someone will throw an idea out to gauge the price, that doesn't mean a tangible offer is made.

[B]Another possibility is that the Skins knew the bengals would rebuff the offer due to the cap hit, so they throw it out now, draft a wr, then after June 1 if the bengals are willing to deal, they barter the price down based on the fact that they drafted a wr, the cap hit is lower & that CJ's value has declined to us.[/B]

Unfortunately, it looks like from what we've heard over several months that the Skins are interested in CJ. I don't doubt that he is still a major impact player, but the cost is high & he's a loose cannon. I also hope cincy sticks to its word & lets him hold out, then fines him if he comes back.[/quote]

i dont see how us drafting a wr would make the bengals more inclined to trade him to us for less than what we have already reportedly offered considering there are rumored to be other teams interested as well. but i do agree with you and all the "experts" who say the bengals might be more willing to deal after april when CJ's cap hit would be lower.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[QUOTE=Vulta121;441363][url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3358557]ESPN - Sources: Skins offer '08 first-rounder, '09 pick for Johnson; Cincy says no - NFL[/url]

This is the best thing that has happened to us in a while. I personally love Chad, but I love the Skins more and we need to keep our picks[/QUOTE]
I love to get him as well but the price was to high and we have so many other needs!

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=KB24;442417]I'm a results-oriented person. Our strategy of giving up draft picks to acquire big stars has netted us one playoff win since 2000. All I'm saying is that, maybe instead on relying on other teams' stars and sacrificing draft picks, potential future solid performers and salary-cap space, we should try taking all these draft picks we have and using them on young players who, if they aren't starting come September 4, will serve as adequate back-ups upon whom we can rely instead of having to go to the waiver wire or switch players from their natural positions, a la Todd Wade and Lorenzo Alexander.

If we acquire Chad Johnson and he leads us to a Super Bowl, I'll be the first to eat my words. I'm just leery of seeing the Skins once again sink so much into one player when we're not one player away from being a serious Super Bowl contender.[/quote]

Fair point, and one of the better posts you've made on this thread. Lacking in hyperbole and I can certainly agree with your logic here. Now can we close this thread? It is a vortex from which I cannot escape!

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[QUOTE=over the mountain;442420]i dont see how us drafting a wr would make the bengals more inclined to trade him to us for less than what we have already reportedly offered considering there are rumored to be other teams interested as well. but i do agree with you and all the "experts" who say the bengals might be more willing to deal after april when CJ's cap hit would be lower.[/QUOTE]

I thought the cap hit would be lower after [B]June [/B]1?

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[QUOTE=SC Skins Fan;442425]Fair point, and one of the better posts you've made on this thread. Lacking in hyperbole and I can certainly agree with your logic here. Now can we close this thread? It is a vortex from which I cannot escape![/QUOTE]

Sure. I got a headache. At least we can agree on one thing: Go Skins!

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

I think everyone is going to have to agree to disagree at this point.

CJ is obviously not going to become a Redskin this year and it looks like we'll be using all of our draft picks on college talent.

Anybody have ideas on who to draft with the first this year?

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[QUOTE=Skinny Tee;442429]I think everyone is going to have to agree to disagree at this point.

CJ is obviously not going to become a Redskin this year and it looks like we'll be using all of our draft picks on college talent.

Anybody have ideas on who to draft with the first this year?[/QUOTE] I get the feeling we are going to trade down to get more picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds...but that is just a feeling!

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

I wonder if the team drafts Jordy Nelson with their first pick? Call me crazy but Vinny and Dan always manage to find a way to surprise us.

Also I think another situation to watch very closely is the Jason Taylor saga. If you remember Parcells said that the only way Taylor doesn't play for the Dolpins is if he retires. In turn if they trade him then I would expect to see the Bengals observe the possible move from a PR standpoint, since this would give them a chance to see how going back on their word will affect their reputation as sturn negotiators.

Also, apparently the Dolphins are interested in Joe Flacco which could make the Redskins an ideal spot for teams to trade up since the Dolphins are trying to move right into our neighborhood. Then again I don't really remember ever hearing about Parcells trading picks to move up but in that case I would expect to see the trade look like so.

[I]"There are four players of particular interest to the Dolphins, according to the Sun-Sentinel: Florida defensive end Derrick Harvey; Auburn defensive end Quentin Groves; Michigan quarterback Chad Henne; and Delaware quarterback Joe Flacco."[/I]

Dolphins get:
Redskins 1-21
Redskins 3-21

Redskins get:
Dolphins 2-1
Dolphins 3-1

Redskins would be able to bring in a draft class with Jordy Nelson, Duane Brown, and Charles Godfrey. Of course they would have to find a productive D-Lineman with their comp pick, but I think we'll be fine as long as the LB's come to play.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

Neverless it is going to be an interesting draft considering that there is no sure fire players that stand out as number ones at the top of the draft.

I think this draft will have some interesting surprises.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=KB24;442417]I'm a results-oriented person. [B]Our strategy of giving up draft picks to acquire big stars has netted us one playoff win since 2000[/B]. All I'm saying is that, maybe instead on relying on other teams' stars and sacrificing draft picks, potential future solid performers and salary-cap space, we should try taking all these draft picks we have and using them on young players who, if they aren't starting come September 4, will serve as adequate back-ups upon whom we can rely instead of having to go to the waiver wire or switch players from their natural positions, a la Todd Wade and Lorenzo Alexander.

If we acquire Chad Johnson and he leads us to a Super Bowl, I'll be the first to eat my words. [B]I'm just leery of seeing the Skins once again sink so much into one player[/B] when we're not one player away from being a serious Super Bowl contender.[/quote]

since 2000, what perennial top-5 in his position pro-bowler have the skins acquired?

portis is the only one i think you can put in that category and thats a bit of a stretch. the fact that we gave big time money to could be good players in lloyd n arch (admitted mistakes) shouldnt keep us from not giving big time money for a big time player. [B]im just confused on what "big stars" weve acquired since 2000 that your referring to[/B]. its not the money the skins were spending that was our problem but the overpaying for mediocre talent that we got in return imo.

sorry for the double post.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=KB24;442426]I thought the cap hit would be lower after [B]June [/B]1?[/quote]

sorry, after june the bengals would be more willing to trade not april , you are correct. but cant the bengals designate him now as a june 1 cut and prorate it or do they have to wait till June?

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[B]KB24[/B]I respect what your saying. I really do. All I'm trying to point out as well as several others is that we would only lose one pick this yr. #21. Then we would have 8-9 other picks to find OL,DE,DL,CB,S,WR depth. All we are saying is it's not the end of the world. Depending on how CJ does this yr yes it could turn out to be a 1st next yr. but I'm betting for them to get the 1st round pick we would have to go pretty far in the playoffs. Probably why Cincy said no go.

It's just frustrating to hear people say CJ is not worth that much when he was like the #3 WR of all last yr and in the top 10 for how many yrs? He's also a pro bowl player...you don't get there by being a problem or having good looks or good character. It's all about his play. It's also disheartening to hear about his character issues. Maybe he did punch a coach maybe he didn't. I was not there. Something happened. On the Riggo show yesterday they spoke with a Cincy sports reporter and he said he has not gotten a clear answer on that either but something did happen. If nothing else pushing and shoving, but he said it appearently was no big deal to the team. Not worthy of kicking him off a team, however he has heard nothing but fans shocked that Cincy would not take the deal. They would get another 1st rounder and knowing CJ would put up the numbers they might get the 1st next also.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=over the mountain;442442]sorry, after june the bengals would be more willing to trade not april , you are correct. but cant the bengals designate him now as a june 1 cut and prorate it or do they have to wait till June?[/quote]

They don't have to wait, all they have to do is designate him as a June 1 move like we did with Lloyd. But then again I'm not sure exactly if that only applies to releasing players, not trading them.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[QUOTE=over the mountain;442441]since 2000, what perennial top-5 in his position pro-bowler have the skins acquired?

portis is the only one i think you can put in that category and thats a bit of a stretch. the fact that we gave big time money to could be good players in lloyd n arch (admitted mistakes) shouldnt keep us from not giving big time money for a big time player. [B]im just confused on what "big stars" weve acquired since 2000 that your referring to[/B]. its not the money the skins were spending that was our problem but the overpaying for mediocre talent that we got in return imo.

sorry for the double post.[/QUOTE]

LaVar Arrington, Bruce Smith, Mark Carrier, Jeff George (GAG!), Deion Sanders (DOUBLE-GAG!), Laveranus Coles, Santana Moss, Joe Morton and Brandon Lloyd are the ones who come to my mind. Snyder even wanted Ted Ginn, Jr., until Gregg Williams sold him on LaRon Landry.

[QUOTE=SBXVII;442444][B]KB24[/B]I respect what your saying. I really do. All I'm trying to point out as well as several others is that we would only lose one pick this yr. #21. Then we would have 8-9 other picks to find OL,DE,DL,CB,S,WR depth. All we are saying is it's not the end of the world. Depending on how CJ does this yr yes it could turn out to be a 1st next yr. but I'm betting for them to get the 1st round pick we would have to go pretty far in the playoffs. Probably why Cincy said no go.

It's just frustrating to hear people say CJ is not worth that much when he was like the #3 WR of all last yr and in the top 10 for how many yrs? He's also a pro bowl player...you don't get there by being a problem or having good looks or good character. It's all about his play. It's also disheartening to hear about his character issues. Maybe he did punch a coach maybe he didn't. I was not there. Something happened. On the Riggo show yesterday they spoke with a Cincy sports reporter and he said he has not gotten a clear answer on that either but something did happen. If nothing else pushing and shoving, but he said it appearently was no big deal to the team. Not worthy of kicking him off a team, however he has heard nothing but fans shocked that Cincy would not take the deal. They would get another 1st rounder and knowing CJ would put up the numbers they might get the 1st next also.[/QUOTE]

I guess I'm just hesitant to make another trade like this for a "superstar" when that strategy in the past hasn't gotten us to the next level. And I just wonder whether it's smart to sink everything as much as we are trying to into him when he may not be able to get us to that level by himself. That's where I'm coming from with all this.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[B]Johnson suitors lining up[/B]

[B]Chad Johnson[/B] | [URL="http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=cin"][COLOR=#000000]Bengals[/COLOR][/URL] | Interested: [URL="http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=was"][COLOR=#000000]Redskins[/COLOR][/URL]? [URL="http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=oak"][COLOR=#000000]Raiders[/COLOR][/URL]? [URL="http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=phi"][COLOR=#000000]Eagles[/COLOR][/URL]? [URL="http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=dal"][COLOR=#000000]Cowboys[/COLOR][/URL]?
[I]The Redskins' trade offer for Johnson (this year's first-round pick and a conditional third-rounder in 2009) could open the floodgates for more to come, writes James Walker. [/I]

[I]The Bengals have been steadfast in saying they won't trade the disgruntled wide receiver, but expect more teams to follow Washington's lead and tempt Cincinnati to pull the trigger. [/I]
[I]ESPN's Chris Mortensen reported that the Eagles and Cowboys have made brief inquires into Johnson's availability. Perhaps they will be the next in line to put together offers comparable or better than the one made by their division rival. [/I]

This seems very sketchy to me. No team wants CJ more then the Skins' and I doubt anyteam is willing to ante up as much as the Redskins are to get CJ. The Cowboys could do it, but as I pointed out before, Mike Brown turned down 3 first round picks, 1 second, 1 third, and other picks all so he could draft Akili Smith. The guys an idiot.

[URL="http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/chickludwig/entries/2008/04/23/rejecting_chad_trade_really_no.html"]Rejecting Chad trade really no surprise | Chick Ludwig At Large[/URL]

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=KB24;442457]LaVar Arrington, Bruce Smith, Mark Carrier, Jeff George (GAG!), Deion Sanders (DOUBLE-GAG!), Laveranus Coles, Santana Moss, Joe Morton and Brandon Lloyd are the ones who come to my mind. Snyder even wanted Ted Ginn, Jr., until Gregg Williams sold him on LaRon Landry.

I guess I'm just hesitant to make another trade like this for a "superstar" when that strategy in the past hasn't gotten us to the next level. And I just wonder whether it's smart to sink everything as much as we are trying to into him when he may not be able to get us to that level by himself. That's where I'm coming from with all this.[/quote]

Here, though, you mistake acquiring a 'big name' with acquiring a 'big talent'. The question posed by OTM was not what big splashes have the Redskins made in FA/Trades since 2000, those are well documented, but rather "what perennial Pro Bowler, Top Five at his position players have the acquired. In you're answer you are all over the board.

LaVar Arrington was a draft pick not a FA pick/trade so right there he does not fit the model (in fact, if you want to call him a failed move - which I might question - then it actually goes against your argument and suggests a proven player is better than the unknown quantity you get with even a top five draft pick). Nonetheless, until he got into the Gibbs/Williams doghouse he was an explosive player, fan favorite, and made multiple Pro Bowl appearances.

Smith, Carrier, George, and Sanders were all part of the 2000 binge and clearly not front line players any longer. Some had been Pro Bowl talent, but all were aging players - and despite the 'ageism' leveled against Johnson he clearly does not fit this mold.

Coles was a solid player, but clearly not at the level of Johnson. He did have a very good first year with the Skins and made a Pro Bowl appearance before this got ugly. We then traded him back to NYJ for Santana Moss and I don't know why Moss gets tossed in here with the others, I think he has been pretty successful in Washington quite frankly.

Chad Morton was a kick returner who the Skins overpaid for, but again you miss the point that OTM was making saying that the Skins have not acquired any players of Johnson's ilk through trade apart from Portis. That certainly includes Brandon Lloyd who many had reservations about even before he was brought in here ... to compare Johnson to Lloyd in terms of talent stretches the limits of credulity. Clearly you would agree, but that was precisely the point OTM (and others) have made. The people you reference (save Moss and Arrington who don't fit the model) were failures of talent evaluation. The fact that trades were involved was not the reason they were failures. They were failures because they were not elite NFL talents. Clearly Johnson does not fit that description.

And I'm not saying the Redskins NEED Chad Johnson. There are arguments against such a move (including the fact that the Bengals don't seem interested). At times you make reference to some of these reasons. But then at other times you get off on illogical tangents that confuse the issue rather than adding clarity.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[QUOTE=SC Skins Fan;442480]Here, though, you mistake acquiring a 'big name' with acquiring a 'big talent'. The question posed by OTM was not what big splashes have the Redskins made in FA/Trades since 2000, those are well documented, but rather "what perennial Pro Bowler, Top Five at his position players have the acquired. In you're answer you are all over the board.

LaVar Arrington was a draft pick not a FA pick and until he got into the Gibbs/Williams doghouse he was an explosive player, fan favorite, and made multiple Pro Bowl appearances.

Smith, Carrier, George, and Sanders were all part of the 2000 binge and clearly not front line players any longer. Some had been Pro Bowl talent, but all were aging players - and despite the 'ageism' leveled against Johnson he clearly does not fit this mold.

Coles was a solid player, but clearly not at the level of Johnson. He did have a very good first year with the Skins and made a Pro Bowl appearance before this got ugly. We then traded him back to NYJ for Santana Moss and I don't know why Moss gets tossed in here with the others, I think he has been pretty successful in Washington quite frankly.

Chad Morton was a kick returner who the Skins overpaid for, but again you miss the point that OTM was making saying that the Skins have not acquired any players of Johnson's ilk through trade apart from Portis. That certainly includes Brandon Lloyd who many had reservations about even before he was brought in here ... to compare Johnson to Lloyd in terms of talent stretches the limits of credulity. Clearly you would agree, but that was precisely the point OTM (and others) have made. The people you reference (save Moss and Arrington who don't fit the model) were failures of talent evaluation. The fact that trades were involved was not the reason they were failures. They were failures because they were not elite NFL talents. Clearly Johnson does not fit that description.[/QUOTE]

I see your point. I guess the past experiences have made me question the motivation of deals such as this one. I'd just like to see us try to groom our own talent and draft wisely for once like we did in the past.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=KB24;442457][B]LaVar Arrington, Bruce Smith, Mark Carrier, Jeff George (GAG!), Deion Sanders (DOUBLE-GAG!), Laveranus Coles, Santana Moss, Joe Morton and Brandon Lloyd[/B] are the ones who come to my mind. Snyder even wanted Ted Ginn, Jr., until Gregg Williams sold him on LaRon Landry.



I guess I'm just hesitant to make another trade like this for a "superstar" when that strategy in the past hasn't gotten us to the next level. And I just wonder whether it's smart to sink everything as much as we are trying to into him when he may not be able to get us to that level by himself. That's where I'm coming from with all this.[/quote]

lol, jeff george (we should have stayed with BJ) and bruce smith were FA signings we got at the end of their careers. coles had a bad heal but a good career with us till we traded him for moss who happened to set the skins season rec yds record and we drafted lavar!! none of those players at the time we got them are anywhere near the production level of a 30 yr old CJ nor did they cost us all our draft picks. im surprised you left duckett out too.

My point is we havent traded or signed a true superstar like CJ since CP (who set the skins season rushing record). comparing CJ to the likes of lloyd and jeff george is ridiculus imo.

go skins!

KB - i think what your trying to say is that instead of throwing big money at CJ now and handcuffing our abilities to add elite talent in the future, we should hold onto some loose cash for a year or two when the team will be 1 superstar signing away from being a SB contender then go after that 1 missing piece? makes sense and i concur.:food-smil

go skins!

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

I'm starting to believe this might not happen at all simply because Mike Brown is a stubborn a-hole lol, that story about him refusing all those picks so he could draft Akili Smith is very convincing. If CJ isn't traded at all then we should move on.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[QUOTE=over the mountain;442486]lol, jeff george (we should have stayed with BJ) and bruce smith were FA signings we got at the end of their careers. coles had a bad heal but a good career with us till we traded him for moss who happened to set the skins season rec yds record and we drafted lavar!! none of those players at the time we got them are anywhere near the production level of a 30 yr old CJ nor did they cost us all our draft picks. im surprised you left duckett out too.

My point is we havent traded or signed a true superstar like CJ since CP (who set the skins season rushing record). comparing CJ to the likes of lloyd and jeff george is ridiculus imo.

go skins!

[B]KB - i think what your trying to say is that instead of throwing big money at CJ now and handcuffing our abilities to add elite talent in the future, we should hold onto some loose cash for a year or two when the team will be 1 superstar signing away from being a SB contender then go after that 1 missing piece? makes sense and i concur.:food-smil

go skins[/B]![/QUOTE]

Thanks. That is what I was trying to say. We've been making trades and spending wildly in free agency for too long with very little in the way of championship-like results. I think two VERY GOOD drafts will get us to a point where we can acquire that big superstar as the last piece.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=KB24;442498]Thanks. That is what I was trying to say. We've been making trades and spending wildly in free agency for too long with very little in the way of championship-like results. I think two VERY GOOD drafts will get us to a point where we can acquire that big superstar as the last piece.[/quote]

I understand your thinking but I still think you have to find a balance between the draft, free agency, and trades.

Is it too crazy to think that maybe the Skins are already close to being a contender in the NFC? I mean it's not like we're coming off a miserable season.