Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=Mattyk;704371]How about some strict internal safety measures from BP to begin with? Interesting that some are suddenly in favor of more gov't involvement.[/quote]

I have never had a problem with basic goverment involvement and safty standards. It seems that a basic backup plan has never been formed and everyone has relied on that one shut of valve to stop this from happening.
Some things in this world need a back up plan A, B & C and some need none at all.

When I go to work I get in my car and just go not thinking about if I break down. When I hop in my boat I have several back up plans for if something goes wrong. If my car breaks down I can walk or call someone for help but if I have a problem with the boat it could mean life or death. So with the boat I have 2 VHF radios, emergency flares, cell phone handy, life jackets, etc... Thats the kind of back up plan I figured the oil companies would have but its apparent that none have any real back up plans.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

As with anything it seems, it takes a mega disaster for quality safety measures to be put in place. Even then a lot of it is just window dressing to make everyone think it will never happen again. I'm really not convinced this is going to change very much in the long run.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

BreakingNews

Coast Guard says saw has become stuck in riser pipe in latest effort to contain Gulf oil spill 41 minutes ago via breakingnews.com

Congress ought to be drafting the relief well legislation today, and pass it unanimously, that might give some reason to believe they are not clueless power mongers. It also ought to be a simple and straight forward legislation, no earmarks, no hidden caveats, just a simple bill that says every oil well in the gulf needs to have an associated relief well.

ah well...

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

They are going to bring in a second saw, according to BP. The first saw failed, leading to it becoming stuck.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

It's comical at this point, really.

And pathetic.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=Mattyk;704386]As with anything it seems, it takes a mega disaster for quality safety measures to be put in place. Even then a lot of it is just window dressing to make everyone think it will never happen again. I'm really not convinced this is going to change very much in the long run.[/quote]

Well the Valdez oil spill lead to double lined tankers but I guess other offshore accidents have lead to nothing. That's what shockes me the most. I would have never guessed with all the enviromental laws we do not require a better safty plan for these wells. While I'm for limited goverment I'm pretty disapointed with the lax rules in place for the past 30 to 40 years. I'm still for offshore drilling but not until they have better safty standards in place. The left can say "See I told you so" but from the post I've read here it seems even people on the left are shocked at the lack of safty rules in place.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

Safety and backup measures cost $$. Probably the main reason why the oil companies are dragging their feet in this area. Plus a lack of pressure from the gov't and society in general.

[url=http://www.cdnn.info/news/eco/e100430.html]CDNN :: BP Fought Oil Rig Safety Measures[/url]

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=Mattyk;704415]Safety and backup measures cost $$. Probably the main reason why the oil companies are dragging their feet in this area. Plus a lack of pressure from the gov't and society in general.

[URL="http://www.cdnn.info/news/eco/e100430.html"]CDNN :: BP Fought Oil Rig Safety Measures[/URL][/quote]

That would have been a good article if they actually did a little reporting and said what safty measures they fought. For all we know they fought making everyone wear a life vest even when sleeping. I'd guess sense they left off the details it was monor safty stuff they are talking about. Not defending BP just pointing out its a poor article.

Try giving it another read it points out a couple of safety measures

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

It's a bit unfair to lump in all the oil companies with BP. BP stands alone when it comes to egregious safety violations, accounting for over 98% I believe.

That said, Exxon Mobil is considered the standard bearer when it comes to strictly complying with safety regulations. And many believe, to Matty's point, that is a direct result of the Exxon Valdez spill

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=Mattyk;704415]Safety and backup measures cost $$. Probably the main reason why the oil companies are dragging their feet in this area. Plus a lack of pressure from the gov't and society in general.

[url=http://www.cdnn.info/news/eco/e100430.html]CDNN :: BP Fought Oil Rig Safety Measures[/url][/quote]

I agree. I understand what some people mean by limited government interference in the markets. Industries that are critical to our economey in my opnion should either be nationalized or taxed like a mug. We as citizens are being held captive to giving large amounts of money to energy companies. We don't share in the profit but we share the risk. Examples include Three Mile Island, Terrorism (was caused by the energy companies dealings with the middle east, BP created our problems with Iran), oils spills in general.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

It's over. They just said that they have no choice but to abandon the LMRP attempt, due to equipment failure. There is now no relief in sight until the relief wells are completed 3 months from now. What really sucks is the cut of the riser pipe has now increased the spill by 30%, given their estimates. 45,000 barrels a day, adds up to 2 million, 475 thousand gallons a day of oil...man this is going from bad to worse. Also, the scientists said that the oil won't run out for over 100 years, so so much for people hoping it would end soon.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=firstdown;704422]That would have been a good article if they actually did a little reporting and said what safty measures they fought. For all we know they fought making everyone wear a life vest even when sleeping. I'd guess sense they left off the details it was monor safty stuff they are talking about. Not defending BP just pointing out its a poor article.[/quote]

First Down I understand what you mean, but slogans like limited government are not gonna get it. We have to take each situation and analyze them. There are no silver bullets. There are postives and negatives to every philosophy, liberal or conservative.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;704432]It's over. They just said that they have no choice but to abandon the LMRP attempt, due to equipment failure. There is now no relief in sight until the relief wells are completed 3 months from now. What really sucks is the cut of the riser pipe has now increased the spill by 30%, given their estimates. 45,000 barrels a day, adds up to 2 million, 475 thousand gallons a day of oil...man this is going from bad to worse. Also, the scientists said that the oil won't run out for over 100 years, so so much for people hoping it would end soon.[/quote]

Remember the 1979 spill. Relief wells are the key to safety. They tried to same techiniques and nothing worked. Same 30 year old technology.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;704432][B]It's over. They just said that they have no choice but to abandon the LMRP attempt, due to equipment failure.[/B] There is now no relief in sight until the relief wells are completed 3 months from now. What really sucks is the cut of the riser pipe has now increased the spill by 30%, given their estimates. 45,000 barrels a day, adds up to 2 million, 475 thousand gallons a day of oil...man this is going from bad to worse. Also, the scientists said that the oil won't run out for over 100 years, so so much for people hoping it would end soon.[/quote]

Where are you getting this info from?

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

This is like a really, really bad nightmare that just won't end. I hope BP goes out of business after all of this. They certainly deserve to.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=12thMan;704444]This is like a really, really bad nightmare that just won't end. I hope BP goes out of business after all of this. They certainly deserve to.[/quote]

The only thing left is prayer, let us pray.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

The ban was already lifted??

BreakingNews

Regulators approve permit sought by Bandon Oil and Gas for site off Louisiana coast, first new Gulf oil well since Obama lifted drill ban
3 minutes ago via breakingnews.com

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=Mattyk;704443]Where are you getting this info from?[/quote]

Mattyk,

My sister in law lives in Gulf Shores, Alabama. There is a response team assembled there to deal with any oil (so far only tar balls have washed up, no slick or anything), and i can literally get up to the minute information by just having my wife text her and ask what is going on. She is no more than 2 or 3 blocks from where the scientist people are on the beach, etc....

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

Haven't heard that news come across a wire yet is all.

Just seems a little sudden to go from we're trying to free the saw or will drop another one, to we give up.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;704454]Mattyk,

My sister in law lives in Gulf Shores, Alabama. There is a response team assembled there to deal with any oil (so far only tar balls have washed up, no slick or anything), and i can literally get up to the minute information by just having my wife text her and ask what is going on. She is no more than 2 or 3 blocks from where the scientist people are on the beach, etc....[/quote]

With up to the minute info sometimes panic stuff comes out too. [URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37463005/"]This MSNBC report[/URL], just updated, doesn't mention that they have given up, and I doubt they will, as options close, they will get more creative, but I doubt they will just stop for 2 months while they drill the relief well.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;704465]With up to the minute info sometimes panic stuff comes out too. [URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37463005/"]This MSNBC report[/URL], just updated, doesn't mention that they have given up, and I doubt they will, as options close, they will get more creative, but I doubt they will just stop for 2 months while they drill the relief well.[/quote]

I can't imagine the backlash if they just tossed up their hands and said see ya in August.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

You think they could get those huge sand bags and just start dumping them over the pipe until the have enough to hold back the oil. You know that mud stuff they tried had peices of tires and golf balls. I wonder if they used PRO V ONES or just cheap rang balls?

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

At my golf course the range balls are Pro V ones and I never slice.



(FD did you really have to leave the E off of range buddy, lol. im betting you had to go back and delete the E)

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

I have played at some very nice golf courses and never seen Pro V's at the driving range.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

well, i was joking but my pop used to be a member at RTJ in manassas for a long time and they have pro v1 range balls with range stamped in black on them. i dont play alot anymore but im sure i have a bunch left in my bag.

tpc avenel used to have them. i know they had them on the range after the kemper/booz allen/whatever it is now. i was hitting balls over there last month and they werent pro vs, i think they were calloways?

but for sure, 100%, rtj at manassas uses pro v1s for their range. ive probably hit a million of them over teh past 20 years.

edit - i went down to my car, they say "practice" on them not range. i got pro v1s and nxt tours.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;704447]The only thing left is prayer, let us pray.[/quote]

[YT]5y2oG0Zy1d0[/YT]

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=Mattyk;704467]I can't imagine the backlash if they just tossed up their hands and said see ya in August.[/quote]

Why would they care though, honestly? They are already set to lose billions over this, people from their company are going to jail, and they probably will go out of business as a result, so why would they care what happens now.

Others have said it, but our hands as a country, are truly tied. We lack the personnel, experience, or equipment to tackle this if we shove BP out of the way. They can do whatever they want, quit or whatever, and there isn't a damned thing we can do about it.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;704503]Why would they care though, honestly? They are already set to lose billions over this, people from their company are going to jail, and they probably will go out of business as a result, so why would they care what happens now.

Others have said it, but our hands as a country, are truly tied. We lack the personnel, experience, or equipment to tackle this if we shove BP out of the way. They can do whatever they want, quit or whatever, and there isn't a damned thing we can do about it.[/quote]

You really don't think there are not companies that the US could contract to help resolve this issue.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=over the mountain;704493]well, i was joking but my pop used to be a member at RTJ in manassas for a long time and they have pro v1 range balls with range stamped in black on them. i dont play alot anymore but im sure i have a bunch left in my bag.

tpc avenel used to have them. i know they had them on the range after the kemper/booz allen/whatever it is now. i was hitting balls over there last month and they werent pro vs, i think they were calloways?

but for sure, 100%, rtj at manassas uses pro v1s for their range. ive probably hit a million of them over teh past 20 years.

edit - i went down to my car, they say "practice" on them not range. i got pro v1s and nxt tours.[/quote]

When I went to the Bell South Clasic a few years back someone told me that the players would request what balls they wanted on the rang for their warm up. So if Phill hit Calloways he would have them waiting for him on the practice range. Not sure if thats true but it would make alot of sense.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=firstdown;704504]You really don't think there are not companies that the US could contract to help resolve this issue.[/quote]

There are not. The Navy, Coast Guard, and the US Government has already said that. BP is the only company that has the expertise with these DEEP SEA wells. The other companies are not set up for such operations at an extreme depth.

The government has contacted James Cameron, the director, due to his deep-water expertise, and the fact that he built the ROV that was the first in the world to find the wreck of the titanic, which ironically sank in extreme depths.

I doubt that Cameron has a solution, based on the fact that all known possible "solutions" have failed to date. And now, they are saying that a relief well is not a 100% chance...so what do you do when the relief well fails? With BP's track record so far, you know it's inevitable.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=firstdown;704504]You really don't think there are not companies that the US could contract to help resolve this issue.[/quote]

Take a deep breath and sit down for this first, I have some earth shattering news for you:

The private sector does not have the answer for everything.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

They are still working at it:
[QUOTE]NBC, msnbc.com and news services
updated 1 minute ago

PORT FOURCHON, La. - As the crude crept closer to Florida, the effort to contain the nation's worst oil spill hit a snag Wednesday when a diamond-edged saw became stuck in a thick pipe on a blown-out well at the bottom of the Gulf.

It took hours, but robots freed the saw late in the day and the operation to cut through the pipe resumed, a source familiar with the operation told Reuters. [/QUOTE]

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;704508]Take a deep breath and sit down for this first, I have some earth shattering news for you:

The private sector does not have the answer for everything.[/quote]
Maybe not, but with the right motivation the private sector very often finds a workable solution. In this case, clearly with govt support, there are several motivating factors for a private sector oil leader to come up with a solution. 1) if a company makes a breakthrough and finds a creative, effective way to end this, they get HIGH Publicity and advertising capital for their company. 2) if the solution is patent-able, they could make a profit by their design. 3) the company that stops it, if BP were to throw up their hands, would have an upper hand in the foreseeable future of deep sea drilling.

IF, and I don't believe this will be the case, it goes unstopped till August, this will be the equivalent to deepsea drilling that 3-Mile island was to Nuclear energy in this country.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;704514]Maybe not, but with the right motivation the private sector very often finds a workable solution. In this case, clearly with govt support, there are several motivating factors for a private sector oil leader to come up with a solution. 1) if a company makes a breakthrough and finds a creative, effective way to end this, they get HIGH Publicity and advertising capital for their company. 2) if the solution is patent-able, they could make a profit by their design. 3) the company that stops it, if BP were to throw up their hands, would have an upper hand in the foreseeable future of deep sea drilling.

IF, and I don't believe this will be the case, it goes unstopped till August, this will be the equivalent to deepsea drilling that 3-Mile island was to Nuclear energy in this country.[/quote]

It seems there are a lot of arm-chair deep sea engineers around these days. The problem isn't so trivial...if anyone had a solution you don't think BP itself would have contract them? Also, this is a time sensitive issue so no one is going to stick their neck out just because they "think" they have a solution. Plus no one wants their name mentioned in a liability lawsuit.

Anywho, as it stands this problem is being "solved" by BP and its silent partners including [URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/idAFN2619681020100526"]Exxon Mobile[/URL].

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=saden1;704516]It seems there are a lot of arm-chair deep sea engineers around these days. The problem isn't so trivial...if anyone had a solution you don't think BP itself would have contract them? Also, this is a time sensitive issue so no one is going to stick their neck out just because they "think" they have a solution. Plus no one wants their name mentioned in a liability lawsuit.

Anywho, as it stands this problem is being "solved" by BP and its silent partners including [URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/idAFN2619681020100526"]Exxon Mobile[/URL].[/quote]

Please don't misrepresent my words. This is not a trivial exercise. HOWEVER, the motivation to put resources towards being the company that develops a solution increases as the time goes on.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;704508]Take a deep breath and sit down for this first, I have some earth shattering news for you:

The private sector does not have the answer for everything.[/quote]

If you go back I was asking earlier in this thread why Obama was not doing anything to help get this stopped. He answered that the other day because he said 300 times and his adminisrtation has said 600 times that they have been there sense day 1.

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

Has anyone thought of purchasing any BP stock?

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=saden1;704516][B]It seems there are a lot of arm-chair deep sea engineers around these days.[/B] The problem isn't so trivial...if anyone had a solution you don't think BP itself would have contract them? Also, this is a time sensitive issue so no one is going to stick their neck out just because they "think" they have a solution. Plus no one wants their name mentioned in a liability lawsuit.

Anywho, as it stands this problem is being "solved" by BP and its silent partners including [URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/idAFN2619681020100526"]Exxon Mobile[/URL].[/quote]

lol so true

Re: Guard watches coast for oil slick's first wave
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;704503]Why would they care though, honestly? They are already set to lose billions over this, people from their company are going to jail, and they probably will go out of business as a result, so why would they care what happens now.

Others have said it, but our hands as a country, are truly tied. We lack the personnel, experience, or equipment to tackle this if we shove BP out of the way. They can do whatever they want, quit or whatever, and there isn't a damned thing we can do about it.[/quote]

Simple point is they have to keep trying. They can't just say oh well we can't fix it, see you in August when the relief well is ready. That's not gonna fly.