Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

Cam still gets drafted in the top 10. Regardless of have how p*ss poor his character and leadership issues are...

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;791136]tongue in cheek? Not at all[/quote]Not tongue in cheek?

To each their own.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

Here's the full review

[url=http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/03/29/cam-newton-scouting-report]ProFootballWeekly.com - Cam Newton scouting report[/url]

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

i just don't see how anyone would touch this guy top ten, or even in the first round. there are so many warning signs, both on and off he field.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;791156]Here's the full review

[url=http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/03/29/cam-newton-scouting-report]ProFootballWeekly.com - Cam Newton scouting report[/url][/quote]

IMO that makes him look worse when it comes down to the negatives. Reads like a 3rd round project pick.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;791156]Here's the full review

[url=http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/03/29/cam-newton-scouting-report]ProFootballWeekly.com - Cam Newton scouting report[/url][/quote]

i'm sure this little exceprt didn't hurt pfw site traffic today

all in all it seems like a pretty decent review though. cam is what he is, a high risk high reward [B]kid[/B], and someone could get really luck or someone will lose their job

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=skinsfan69;791170]i just don't see how anyone would touch this guy top ten, or even in the first round. there are so many warning signs, both on and off he field.[/quote]

just out of curiosity what are the warning signs on the field? i can understand off the feild he has a checkered past for sure, but what has he done on the field besides win?

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=mlmdub130;791179]just out of curiosity what are the warning signs on the field? i can understand off the feild he has a checkered past for sure, but what has he done on the field besides win?[/quote]

he played in a gimmick college offense where he was running over and around people. aurburn's passing offense wasn't anything near pro style like it was when campbell was there. he wasn't asked to read the whole field. not goona lie and say i've seen a lot of his games but the ones i did see, like the championship game, i just wasn't impressed with his passing. imo newton has alex smith vince young written all over him.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=skinsfan69;791170]i just don't see how anyone would touch this guy top ten, or even in the first round. there are so many warning signs, both on and off he field.[/quote]

All other issues aside, I'm often left to wonder why this always seems to find a way into the discussion when comparing QB's in, or about to enter the NFL.

I long for the day to come when it will no longer be an "issue"

[url=http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/275991-gm-newton-victim-of-racial-profiling]GM: Newton victim of racial profiling - NFL - Rumors - FanNation[/url]

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

No offense To anyone on this site but my god can the "black QB" crap please come to an end!!! I don't think Warren moon , randal Cunningham, DMC etc were bad and they are black. SMH

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;791832]No offense To anyone on this site but my god can the "black QB" crap please come to an end!!! I don't think Warren moon , randal Cunningham, DMC etc were bad and they are black. SMH[/quote]

Lower case 't'? Time to leave?
[url=http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/153104/lower-case-t-burning]Lower Case T Burning (Season 5, Episode 12) - Video Clips - South Park Studios[/url]

"Next time we'll use a capital 'T' to show them we really mean business."

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;791832]No offense To anyone on this site but my god can the "black QB" crap please come to an end!!! I don't think Warren moon , randal Cunningham, DMC etc were bad and they are black. SMH[/quote]

The suggeston you make is one I'm sure is shared by many, not just members of this site. It's a universal concern that deserves a final resting place but, somehow manages to continue to raise it's ugly head.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

Black athletes can play QB at high levels. I'd take Josh Freeman in a heartbeat. I understand only 1 has won a superbowl and honestly I can't explain it but it's getting old talking about this.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

it's an easy excuse to say "attacks" on Cam are racially based...but that doesn't explain when someone says "does he have the demeanor and work ethic to avoid being the next Ryan Leaf?"

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;791840]Black athletes can play QB at high levels. I'd take Josh Freeman in a heartbeat. I understand only 1 has won a superbowl and honestly I can't explain it but it's getting old talking about this.[/quote]

Tell it to Warren Moon and any others who share his views. I'm not the message.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

**** Warren Moon. I'm sick and tired of this bullshit "race card" being played when a particular player isn't getting shit go his way. Has Warren Moon did the extensive back ground checks that Nawrocki has done? Hell no. Is Warren Moon being paid by Cam Newton? Yes he is.



Listening to Todd McShay, it seems that he's heard a good deal of stuff on Cam Newton to believe that write up from Nawrocki. It's interesting to hear about how Auburn doesn't want any scouts talking to any of the staff except the head coach, AND that there was a play in the National Championship game that Cam Newton just called his own play (QB sneak) at the end of the game when they wanted to go for a FG and win the game. Tells you that kid is about himself and none of the coaches are commenting on the play because they don't want to portray anything negative of him....lol

[url=http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/podcenter/?callsign=WTEMAM&autoplay=1&id=6281234]ESPN Radio[/url]


Also, listen from Nolan Nawrocki himself on how he came up with this draft analysis on Newton's character.


[url=http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/podcenter/?callsign=WTEMAM&autoplay=1&id=6275312]ESPN Radio[/url]


Going on further, we see Nawrocki's comments were probably on the money.

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AtxZ.TeAyLMCmlkkYUbTunVDubYF?slug=jc-cole_flawed_qb_class_of_2011_040111]Top four QB prospects raise glaring red flags - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

[quote]“When you talk to people who knew the kid at Florida, his personality is a serious problem …,” an AFC personnel director said. “He goes to junior college, gets his act together and then has this great year at Auburn. Everything that people at Florida said he could be, he was and more. When Urban Meyer told people that Newton could be better than Tim Tebow(notes), he wasn’t kidding.”

But …

“Now that he’s had a taste of success, you’re seeing some of the bad stuff come back. The stuff he said to Peter King about wanting to be a star and all that crap.[/quote]


So this kid cheats in school, involved with stolen merchandise, had his father take money from boosters to sell his services, talks about how he is a star and entertainer, and people think draft analysts are discriminating on him because he's black?.....lol ****ing idiots is exactly what those people are.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

I was against us drafting before all of this stuff. Now I wouldnt want him in the second round.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Longtimefan;791831]All other issues aside, I'm often left to wonder why this always seems to find a way into the discussion when comparing QB's in, or about to enter the NFL.

I long for the day to come when it will no longer be an "issue"

[URL="http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/275991-gm-newton-victim-of-racial-profiling"]GM: Newton victim of racial profiling - NFL - Rumors - FanNation[/URL][/quote]

I don't think it's racial profiling at all. The guy has major warning signs. You can't deny that. It's going to take time for him to get the nuances of playing NFL QB down. Is he willing to put in the time to take his pocket game to the next level? Like Drew Brees did? Or the way Tom Brady did? Or the way Michael Vick finally did? He's a runner first, passer second and for that reason I wouldn't touch the guy in the first two rounds.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=NC_Skins;791919]**** Warren Moon. I'm sick and tired of this bullshit "race card" being played when a particular player isn't getting shit go his way. Has Warren Moon did the extensive back ground checks that Nawrocki has done? Hell no. Is Warren Moon being paid by Cam Newton? Yes he is.



Listening to Todd McShay, it seems that he's heard a good deal of stuff on Cam Newton to believe that write up from Nawrocki. It's interesting to hear about how Auburn doesn't want any scouts talking to any of the staff except the head coach, AND that there was a play in the National Championship game that Cam Newton just called his own play (QB sneak) at the end of the game when they wanted to go for a FG and win the game. Tells you that kid is about himself and none of the coaches are commenting on the play because they don't want to portray anything negative of him....lol

[URL="http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/podcenter/?callsign=WTEMAM&autoplay=1&id=6281234"]ESPN Radio[/URL]


Also, listen from Nolan Nawrocki himself on how he came up with this draft analysis on Newton's character.


[URL="http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/podcenter/?callsign=WTEMAM&autoplay=1&id=6275312"]ESPN Radio[/URL]


Going on further, we see Nawrocki's comments were probably on the money.

[URL="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AtxZ.TeAyLMCmlkkYUbTunVDubYF?slug=jc-cole_flawed_qb_class_of_2011_040111"]Top four QB prospects raise glaring red flags - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/URL]




So this kid cheats in school, involved with stolen merchandise, had his father take money from boosters to sell his services, talks about how he is a star and entertainer, and people think draft analysts are discriminating on him because he's black?.....lol ****ing idiots is exactly what those people are.[/quote]

In all fairness to Warren Moon, I'm going to give him a pass here. One of the best pure passers the NFL has ever seen wasn't drafted simply cause of the color of his skin. He had to go to Cananda for 6 years before the NFL gave him a shot. To this day I still shake my head at that, so if it bothers me, imagine what he still feels like. Moon is probably a little sensitive when it comes to black QB's being looked down upon.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=skinsfan69;791934]In all fairness to Warren Moon, I'm going to give him a pass here. One of the best pure passers the NFL has ever seen wasn't drafted simply cause of the color of his skin. He had to go to Cananda for 6 years before the NFL gave him a shot. To this day I still shake my head at that, so if it bothers me, imagine what he still feels like. Moon is probably a little sensitive when it comes to black QB's being looked down upon.[/quote]

I think this is the most sensible quote I read on the subject. Nice reasoning 69.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=skinsfan69;791934]In all fairness to Warren Moon, I'm going to give him a pass here. One of the best pure passers the NFL has ever seen wasn't drafted simply cause of the color of his skin. He had to go to Cananda for 6 years before the NFL gave him a shot. To this day I still shake my head at that, so if it bothers me, imagine what he still feels like. Moon is probably a little sensitive when it comes to black QB's being looked down upon.[/quote]

(following rant isn't towards you Skinsfan69, just the situation in general)


**** that. This shit pisses me off to no end. OOOOoooo I feel slighted so I'll use my race card to garner sympathy votes from the public. (or the Jew card in Dan Snyder's case)

There is no pass on this. I don't recall Warren Moon saying a god damn thing when they ripped Jimmy Clausen about his character, or Ryan Mallet this year. Hell, where was Warren when the assaulted the characters of Akili Smith, Donovan McNabb, Pat White, Jamarcus Russell and Vince Young before going into the draft....oh wait....probably because IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

Warren, there is a reason this kid's character is being assaulted. I understand he's paying you and it's your job to get him the highest draft slot available, abut how about we leave the Race Card shit to a time and era it was deserved. (such as the one Moon was in)


/rant off

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=skinsfan69;791934][B]In all fairness to Warren Moon, I'm going to give him a pass here.[/B] One of the best pure passers the NFL has ever seen wasn't drafted simply cause of the color of his skin. He had to go to Cananda for 6 years before the NFL gave him a shot. To this day I still shake my head at that, so if it bothers me, imagine what he still feels like. Moon is probably a little sensitive when it comes to black QB's being looked down upon.[/quote]


He may have the right to be sensitive to race issues facing black qb's but it dont give him the right to speak out like he did and basically call anyone who critizes Newton a raciest. 2 wrongs dont make a right and the vast majoirty of people believe that Moon is incorrect in his argument

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=NC_Skins;791947](following rant isn't towards you Skinsfan69, just the situation in general)


**** that. This shit pisses me off to no end. OOOOoooo I feel slighted so I'll use my race card to garner sympathy votes from the public. (or the Jew card in Dan Snyder's case)

There is no pass on this. I don't recall Warren Moon saying a god damn thing when they ripped Jimmy Clausen about his character, or Ryan Mallet this year. Hell, where was Warren when the assaulted the characters of Akili Smith, Donovan McNabb, Pat White, Jamarcus Russell and Vince Young before going into the draft....oh wait....probably because IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

Warren, there is a reason this kid's character is being assaulted. I understand he's paying you and it's your job to get him the highest draft slot available, abut how about we leave the Race Card shit to a time and era it was deserved. (such as the one Moon was in)


/rant off[/quote]
Gotta agree. Did not hear Moon even mention Doug Williams and the positives there. Seemed to be only focused on the negative.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

Moon has.........always been quick to throw the race card.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Hog1;791983]Moon has.........always been quick to throw the race card.[/quote]

Really? I wasn't aware of that

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

Whats funny is "experts" are worried about Ryan Mallett and his possible drug addictions but you don't see anyone coming to his aid. This stuff is getting out of hand honestly, anytime a black athlete is questioned or gets in trouble its always because he's black. Just gets old

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;791998]Whats funny is "experts" are worried about Ryan Mallett and his possible drug addictions but you don't see anyone coming to his aid. This stuff is getting out of hand honestly, anytime a black athlete is questioned or gets in trouble its always because he's black. Just gets old[/quote]

This is a pretty good read on Mallett

[url=http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports/columnists/hyde/blog/2011/03/draft_winds_lies_damn_lies_and_1.html]Dave Hyde | Sun Sentinel blogs | Draft Winds: Lies, damn lies and Ryan Mallett[/url]

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;791989]Really? I wasn't aware of that[/quote]

THAT is possible...
I was in Houston through most of his Oiler career, I have heard him on a few occasions make declarations regarding one wrong or another that could only be a racial issue (and may have been) rather than any other causation
MUCH like this issue.....

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;791998]Whats funny is "experts" are worried about Ryan Mallett and his possible drug addictions but you don't see anyone coming to his aid. This stuff is getting out of hand honestly, anytime a black athlete is questioned or gets in trouble its always because he's black. Just gets old[/quote]

It got pretty ugly on the ESPN comment section for the Vrabel scandal. According to some on the fringe, if Vrabel had been black, white people would have been all over Vrabel.

That is a great point though. Mallet has been getting hammered worse then Newton throughout this draft process. He has dropped from a potential top 10 pick to a likely mid second round pick due mainly to character concerns alone. Newton in spite of all the criticism has gone from mid to late first round pick to top 5 lock. At this point Mallet wishes he was the victim of "racism."

Either way the race card is getting maxed out these days. For God's sake 70% of the NFL is black, so when an NFL player screws up and does something stupid theres a 70% chance that player is going to be black. And just like hockey when a Hockey player screws up theres a 99% chance that player is going to be white.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

^ good post

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

I wish everyone would stop talking about this race situation.
If you don't agree fine but don't cry outrage when someone (Warren Moon) is offended.
How would you feel if someone told you how to feel?
Fact is Moon [I][B]has[/B][/I] been discriminated against because of his race.
If he senses the same thing to is happening to Newton he has every right to express that.

Also, people keep mentioning Mallett as an example that Newton isn't being treated unfairly but does Norwicki have an equally personal and scathing attack on Mallett?

Lets not confuse the issue here Norwicki's profile was personal and unprofessional and [I]Warren Moon[/I] felt it was racial driven.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=mlmpetert;791953]He may have the right to be sensitive to race issues facing black qb's but it dont give him the right to speak out like he did and basically call anyone who critizes Newton a raciest. 2 wrongs dont make a right and the vast majoirty of people believe that Moon is incorrect in his argument[/quote]

I agree, Moon is probably is out of line.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=30gut;792017]I wish everyone would stop talking about this race situation.
If you don't agree fine but don't cry outrage when someone (Warren Moon) is offended.
How would you feel if someone told you how to feel?
Fact is Moon [I][B]has[/B][/I] been discriminated against because of his race.
If he senses the same thing to is happening to Newton he has every right to express that.

Also, people keep mentioning Mallett as an example that Newton isn't being treated unfairly but does Norwicki have an equally personal and scathing attack on Mallett?

Lets not confuse the issue here [B]Norwicki's profile was personal and unprofessional[/B] and [I]Warren Moon[/I] felt it was racial driven.[/quote]

Not when you compare it to past profiles PFW has done. Some very similar things were said about Jimmy Clausen just last year.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Mattyk;792050]Not when you compare it to past profiles PFW has done. Some very similar things were said about Jimmy Clausen just last year.[/quote]Does previous history make it okay to be unprofessional and personal?

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=30gut;792089]Does previous history make it okay to be unprofessional and personal?[/quote]

Ding, ding ding...this! The writer does seem to be grossly unprofessional with borderline animosoty in the tone of his review. Personally, I'll never read his stuff.

BTW- The fake smile thing is an unecessary cheap shot, at best.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

Just saying there's a history of these scouting reports touching on personality traits, it's not something unique or new with Newton's report.

They may be harsh but it's part of the total picture that teams look at before investing a ton of loot in these kids. There are a lot of sources that agree with the report on Newton too.

If I'm a GM ready to give a kid millions of dollars, I'd want to know every single piece of info on that kid, good and bad.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Mattyk;792092]Just saying there's a history of these scouting reports touching on personality traits, it's not something unique or new with Newton's report.

They may be harsh but it's part of the total picture that teams look at before investing a ton of loot in these kids. There are a lot of sources that agree with the report on Newton too.

If I'm a GM ready to give a kid millions of dollars, I'd want to know every single piece of info on that kid, good and bad.[/quote]

Preach. Fact is most scouting reports by team scouts can and do get as specific as this one, except generally the public doesn't get hold of them.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Mattyk;792092]Just saying there's a history of these scouting reports touching on personality traits, it's not something unique or new with Newton's report.

They may be harsh but it's part of the total picture that teams look at before investing a ton of loot in these kids. There are a lot of sources that agree with the report on Newton too.

If I'm a GM ready to give a kid millions of dollars, I'd want to know every single piece of info on that kid, good and bad.[/quote]

The scouting indusrty has been around forever and imo the personal aspects are both the most important and the most difficult for fans to know.

I can't imagine any [I]actual[/I] former scouts (btw Narwocki is a media scout like McShay or Kiper and to my knowledge has never been an actual scout) would ever write public report of that nature, especially based on 2nd hand opinion. (We all know full well that right about now a team GMs/scouts/official will say anything short of out right lies about their opinions of the prospects)

Behind closed doors different people are gonna have different views of prospects based on personality which by its very nature is subjective.

You can allude to a players off the field concerns or personality concerns in a professional manner without becoming personal.

Imo its a sad commentary on the nature and general direction of media at large.

But, kudos to Nolan I bet PFW has never received this many hits.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=30gut;792106]The scouting indusrty has been around forever and imo the personal aspects are both the most important and the most difficult for fans to know.

I can't imagine any [I]actual[/I] former scouts (btw Narwocki is a media scout like McShay or Kiper and to my knowledge has never been an actual scout) would ever write public report of that nature, especially based on 2nd hand opinion. (We all know full well that right about now a team GMs/scouts/official will say anything short of out right lies about their opinions of the prospects)

Behind closed doors different people are gonna have different views of prospects based on personality which by its very nature is subjective.

[B]You can allude to a players off the field concerns or personality concerns in a professional manner without becoming personal.[/B]

Imo its a sad commentary on the nature and general direction of media at large.

But, kudos to Nolan I bet PFW has never received this many hits.[/quote]

Well, that's your interpretation of it. I don't think it's personal, it's business. If Newton can't handle it he's probably not going to be able to handle a lot of things at the next level.

Funny, I don't remember the public outrage last year when these things were said about Clausen:

[quote]Has a sense of entitlement, having attended private schools, worked with private QB coaches and being sheltered by his family, who bought a house on campus so his brothers had a place to stay for every game. Arrogant-can come off as having all the answers and struggle to win a locker room. Still immature. Comes across as overly staged, scripted and disingenuous in interviews and does not have the type of presence desired in the face of a franchise.[/quote]

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Mattyk;792107]Well, that's your interpretation of it. I don't think it's personal, it's business. If Newton can't handle it he's probably not going to be able to handle a lot of things at the next level.[/quote]Its the business of drumming up sales through saying something out of bounds.

And how are you gonna drag Newton into this?

"If Newton can't handle it" really?

How are you gonna spin this into Newton can't handle it?


[quote]Funny, I don't remember the public outrage last year when these things were said about Clausen:[/quote]I didn't read the part about him having a 'fake smile'.