Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Sorry, but I rather keep Donovan than have Beck or Rex start. Are you folks nuts into believing that Shanny would give the nod to Beck or even Rex for that matter? If Beck had such the potential, why did het get bounced around so much? Plus the fact that he is a BYU guy isn't so great. Real easy putting up big passing numbers in the WAC or Mountain West.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=ethat001;802791]Are Vince Young, Marc Bulger and John Beck -- that much *better* than McNabb? Come on, McNabb (in his second year in system) should be comparable to these guys. Sure he didn't do well last year, and now we've benched him an alienated him. Perhaps he wasn't right for Shanahan's system. McNabb made poor decisions and didn't know the playbook as well as he should.

BUT:
1) McNabb was hired only 4-5 months before season
2) It was the first year in new offensive system for everyone on offense
3) Poor offensive line play
4) 3rd and 4th string RBs with Portis and even Torrain out for part/most of system
5) Only an aging Moss and a CFL wide receiver to throw to..


I just think McNabb had an off year, but people are throwing him under the bus. He was a Pro Bowl QB for 10 years, and I don't think you lose it in 1-2 years. Is he what he was when he went to the Super Bowl? Maybe not, but I don't think he's "washed up" quite yet.

I know he's on his way out, but I would have preferred to keep McNabb, tailor the offense around him and use him for 2-3 years like we planned. Now we're just searching for another FA QB, without any assurance they'll be better or viable long-term. McNabb is now just a wasted 2nd round (& mid-round) draft pick. Not to mention - we could have kept Campbell, and he couldn't have done too much worse.[/quote]

McNabb is the NFL's Scott Gomez. You go "ooooooh" and "ahhhh" with his creds, but they actually aren't that great anymore and even in their prime, had a limitations to their game. McNabb's legs are giving out, and pocket passer McNabb has NEVER been a world beater.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=30gut;802074][IMG]http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9596/kobewhatever2.png[/IMG]
Funny, I don't see where I tell or suggest for you to do anything.

If you think the sky is red that is your right.
But, what sense would it make to argue with a man yelling at the top of his lungs that the sky is red?

There is no need for me to convince you that its not, that would be silly because your mind is made up.

However, lest you think others agree with you, I'll simply remind you that the sky is blue.

The onus is on you to prove otherwise with something more then a couple of dissenting largely anecdotal minority opinions.

I'll repeat, at the end of the day the notion that you're pushing is still the minority opinion regardless of how loud you yell it.

-Hail[/quote]

Sophist and mind reader. Rather than prove the falseness behind my assertions, you just conviniently use an "appeal to the majority" fallacy. Good for you, moron. I have no respect for that type of fallacious argumentation.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;802806]Sorry, but I rather keep Donovan than have Beck or Rex start. Are you folks nuts into believing that Shanny would give the nod to Beck or even Rex for that matter? If Beck had such the potential, why did het get bounced around so much? Plus the fact that he is a BYU guy isn't so great. Real easy putting up big passing numbers in the WAC or Mountain West.[/quote]

One thing is almost certain, McNabb isn't getting the nod.

Beck got caught up in a regime change in Miami, and I believe Baltimore traded him because he has a better chance to play here.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/john_beck_is_already_being_a_leader/2011/05/10/AFrLyOgG_blog.html?wprss=dc-sports-bog]John Beck is already being a leader - DC Sports Bog - The Washington Post[/url]

The one thing I don't get is he describes that he asked for his release from the Dolphins because he wanted a chance to start so why did he go to the Ravens who at the very least had Joe Flacco?

Still the way he describes his love for the game, you simply can't make that up. I like Beck and I think that he's our best chance to find a diamond in the rough and if it works out we'll have a QB for the next 4 or 5 years.

Thats why I'm so hesitant about Vince Young because theres a part of me that really believes Beck can finally give us the QB we've needed to compete in the NFC East. Arm strength, anticipation, leadership, study habits, quick release, mobility. Virtually everything we need in a QB except experience.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;802808]Sophist and mind reader. Rather than prove the falseness behind my assertions, you just conviniently use an "appeal to the majority" fallacy. Good for you, moron. I have no respect for that type of fallacious argumentation.[/quote]

Man this post is so comical. For a few of us at least...still, no need to call him a moron.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;802817][url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/john_beck_is_already_being_a_leader/2011/05/10/AFrLyOgG_blog.html?wprss=dc-sports-bog]John Beck is already being a leader - DC Sports Bog - The Washington Post[/url]

The one thing I don't get is he describes that he asked for his release from the Dolphins because he wanted a chance to start so why did he go to the Ravens who at the very least had Joe Flacco?

Still the way he describes his love for the game, you simply can't make that up. I like Beck and I think that he's our best chance to find a diamond in the rough and if it works out we'll have a QB for the next 4 or 5 years.

Thats why I'm so hesitant about Vince Young because theres a part of me that really believes Beck can finally give us the QB we've needed to compete in the NFC East. Arm strength, anticipation, leadership, study habits, quick release, mobility. Virtually everything we need in a QB except experience.[/quote]

It could be he didn't have much say into where he was dealt. He did have words with Parcells prior to his departure so I wouldn't imagine he was looking to do him any favors despite having spoken highly of him.

I say....put him out there and let him play, I'll form my own opinion.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Honestly Seattle would make more sense for Young then Washington.

VY to Seahawks?
10:02
AM ET
Vince Young | Titans | Interested: Seahawks?
TopEmailComments
1


The Seattle Seahawks need a quarterback. Vince Young needs a home. Is this a good match for either party?

ESPN NFC West blogger Mike Sando tries to answer that question in his latest mailbag. He points out that the Seahawks could acquire Young without surrendering draft picks, since the Tennessee Titans are unlikely to get trade offers for their quarterback and will be forced to release him. Sando also credits Seahawks Pete Carroll for being a player's coach who can find success with players where others have failed (see Williams, Mike). However, he cautions Seattle to cover their backsides if they do decide to go after Young:

- Vince Verhei


Mike Sando
Handle with care.
"Young does have the talent to win. Based on the way Young's career fizzled out in Tennessee, however, I have a hard time envisioning him developing into a reliable franchise quarterback. Seattle would have to place strict conditions on Young -- conditions that would be reflected first by his salary and then by making him earn playing time."

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

McNabb did about as well as I expected. At least with Beck there is some hope. Until he's given a chance here and proves he's not starter material, I have no problem with giving him a shot and seeing what he can do.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Why would the Seahawks make more sense for VY than the Redskins

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;802827]Why would the Seahawks make more sense for VY than the Redskins[/quote]

Pete Carroll is more of a players coach that will give Young the emotional support he needs. Shanahan on the other hand is more of a no nonsense disciplinarian with a more confrontational style. Fisher had a similar style and it caused Young to go through an emotional breakdown. Granted it could still work on Young and might even be what he needs in a sense, but I think Carroll's style of coaching would allow Young to feel more relaxed in a way where he won't put undue pressure on himself (ie he'll be free to focus more on just having fun playing football).

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=30gut;801878]You can choose to believe Hugh Douglass or whomever/whatever supports your opinion.

But, it [I][B]is[/B][/I] in fact the [I]minority[/I] opinion when it comes to McNabb.

And there will always be a minority opinion; someone somewhere can/will find something negative to say about anyone from Favre to Marino to Brady to Manning etc.[/quote]

Not sure about that. Just listen to the Eagle players once he left Philly. Also, back when that whole TO fiasco went down, it was reported on numerous occassions that the locker room was split over TO/McNabb. I don't think he was as highly valued as you think he was. Also, another insider I know of said the same thing about the players in the locker room this past year in regards to McNabb.




Let me point some numbers out here. See a pattern here? I sure do.


[B]1999 [/B]
McNabb - 106 completions, 948 yards (12 games)
Deuce Staley - 41 receptions/294 yards (16 games)

[B]2000[/B]
McNabb - 330 completions, 3,365 yards (16 games)
Staley- 25 receptions, 201 yards (only 5 games)


[B]2001[/B]
McNabb -285 completions, 3,233 yards
Staley - 63 receptions, 626 yards (13 games)


[B]2002[/B]
McNabb - 211 completions, 2,289 yards (10 games)
Staley- 51 receptions, 541 yards (16 games)
Westbrook -9 receptions, 86 yards (15 games)


[B]2003[/B]
McNabb - 275 completions, 3,216 yards (16 games)
Staley - 36 receptions, 382 yards (16 games)
Westbrook - 37 receptions, 332 yards (15 games)

[B]2004[/B]
McNabb - 300 completions, 3,875 yards (15 games)
Westbrook - 73 receptions, 703 yards (13 games)

[B]2005[/B]
McNabb - 211 completions, 2,507 yards (9 games)
Westbrook - 61 receptions, 616 yards (12 games)

[B]2006[/B]
McNabb- 180 completions, 2,647 yards (10 games)
Westbrook - 77 receptions, 699 yards (15 games)

[B]2007[/B]
McNabb - 291 completions, 3,324 yards (14 games)
Westbrook - 90 receptions, 771 yards (15 games)

[B]2008[/B]
McNabb - 345 completions, 3,916 yards (16 games)
Westbrook - 54 receptions, 402 yards (14 games)

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

So McNabb makes Matt 'Captain Checkdown' Leinart look like Rex 'Unleash the Dragon' Grossman?

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;802830]Pete Carroll is more of a players coach that will give Young the emotional support he needs. Shanahan on the other hand is more of a no nonsense disciplinarian with a more confrontational style. Fisher had a similar style and it caused Young to go through an emotional breakdown. Granted it could still work on Young and might even be what he needs in a sense, but I think Carroll's style of coaching would allow Young to feel more relaxed in a way where he won't put undue pressure on himself (ie he'll be free to focus more on just having fun playing football).[/quote]

Oh ok, I can see your point there

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;802835]Oh ok, I can see your point there[/quote]

Thanks, though I feel like I kind of gayed it up a bit, talking about feelings and the like. Oh well, I'm recovering from hernia surgery and the pain pill make me all loopy so I give myself a pass. lol.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Carroll wants a drop back passer VY isn't that.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;802843]Carroll wants a drop back passer VY isn't that.[/quote]

I can't really picture him in Seattle either.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;802819]Man this post is so comical. For a few of us at least...still, no need to call him a moron.[/quote]

Seriously. If you're gonna dictionary.com such words as "sophist" and "argumentation," you'd think you'd at least spell the word "conveniently" correctly. Haha.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;802839]Thanks, though I feel like I kind of gayed it up a bit, talking about feelings and the like. [B]Oh well, I'm recovering from hernia surgery and the pain pill make me all loopy so I give myself a pass.[/B] lol.[/quote]

Might the pain pills have also addled your mind enough to cause you to express your support of John Beck as our starting QB? Just say that you don't remember typing any such thing and I'll believe you.

Seriously, I hope you get well soon.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;802876]Might the pain pills have also addled your mind enough to cause you to express your support of John Beck as our starting QB? Just say that you don't remember typing any such thing and I'll believe you.

Seriously, I hope you get well soon.[/quote]

Thanks KI, appreciate it.

Back to the QB siutation though. I found a diamond out of the Rush on ESPN disaster.


[quote]STEVE YOUNG: But I'll tell you what. I'll say it even more strongly, Tom. When they're winning, nobody makes more plays --

TOM JACKSON: Right.

STEVE YOUNG: -- with his arm --

TOM JACKSON: Than Donovan McNabb.

STEVE YOUNG: -- than Donovan McNabb. That guy is really one of the best in the league at making plays.

TOM JACKSON: Well, I --

[B]STEVE YOUNG: BUT making plays does not win championships. Running the offense does. So at some point I think --
[/B]
[B]TOM JACKSON: Gotta run the offense.
[/B]
[B]STEVE YOUNG: -- that Koy Detmer looks like a better option because he'll go in there (crosstalk), drop back, and throw the ball correctly.
[/B]
CHRIS BERMAN: Isn't it odd that last year with the broken leg -- I know it was Arizona, but -- the one time he was in the pocket he looked great. Right?

[B]STEVE YOUNG: He had to run that offense.[/B][/quote]

McNabb's problem has always been actually running the offense.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;802898]Thanks KI, appreciate it.

Back to the QB siutation though. I found a diamond out of the Rush on ESPN disaster.




McNabb's problem has always been actually running the offense.[/quote]


Bro, I posted that in another thread in regards to either Newton, Vick or McNabb. People are so concerned and thrilled by ESPN highlights that they don't see the big picture overall. Which is, the consistency of the offense. Moving the ball, converting 3rd downs, and finally punching it into the end zone. If you look at the stats I posted on the other page, a good portion of McNabbs completions were to RBs. Hell, I thought Jason Campbell was a check down king, guess he learned from McNabb.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Part of the west coast offense Reid runs involves dumps to the backs, much like what Walsh did in SF. It's an extension of the running game, not a knock on their QB.

McCoy had 78 catches last year without DM.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Mattyk;802900]Part of the west coast offense Reid runs involves dumps to the backs, much like what Walsh did in SF. It's an extension of the running game, not a knock on their QB.[/quote]


His offense is a pass happy one as well, but he still didn't put up the kind of numbers one might have expected. McNabb's problem has always been the short/intermediate throw. However, those are the throws that move the chains and make the offense efficient.

With McNabb, you either get the RB dump off or the 40 yard bomb. As we saw this past year, he missed more often than not on the bombs. (still better than Campbell was)

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Mattyk;802900]Part of the west coast offense Reid runs involves dumps to the backs, much like what Walsh did in SF. It's an extension of the running game, not a knock on their QB.

McCoy had 78 catches last year without DM.[/quote]

Exactly. Look at how many receptions Roger Craig had with Walsh's Niners back in the 80's

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;802901]His offense is a pass happy one as well, but he still didn't put up the kind of numbers one might have expected. McNabb's problem has always been the short/intermediate throw. However, those are the throws that move the chains and make the offense efficient.

With McNabb, you either get the RB dump off or the 40 yard bomb. As we saw this past year, he missed more often than not on the bombs. (still better than Campbell was)[/quote]

Well he would have completed more bombs if Galloway wasn't so awful this past year

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;802902]Exactly. Look at how many receptions Roger Craig had with Walsh's Niners back in the 80's[/quote]

Yeah, but Montana also managed to send Taylor, Rice, and Clark to either the Pro-Bowl/Hall of Fame based off of his output. Only person McNabb made look good was Staley/Westbrook.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;802903]Well he would have completed more bombs if Galloway wasn't so awful this past year[/quote]

Most of those bombs were because he overthrew them. You can't put that on Joey. That said, I do agree with you that Galloway was beyond horrible.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;802899]Bro, I posted that in another thread in regards to either Newton, Vick or McNabb. People are so concerned and thrilled by ESPN highlights that they don't see the big picture overall. Which is, the consistency of the offense. Moving the ball, converting 3rd downs, and finally punching it into the end zone. If you look at the stats I posted on the other page, a good portion of McNabbs completions were to RBs. Hell, I thought Jason Campbell was a check down king, guess he learned from McNabb.[/quote]

Yeah but with all due respect to McNabb theres a difference between checking down to a RB with a quick curl on 3rd and long and allowing someone like Brian Westbrook in his prime to get the ball in space. You also look at the Rams when they were the greatest show on turf and in 1999 Faulk had a 1,000 yards receiving to go with a 1,300 yards rushing (probably the best single season by a running back in the history of the NFL).

McNabb's problem is not making the proper reads and setting his feet properly, and I know hindsight is 20/20 but we should have known that this would have been a disaster. It's why Rex Grossman looks better running the offense, because he makes proper reads and does a better job of setting his feet.

[quote=SmootSmack;802903]Well he would have completed more bombs if [B]Galloway wasn't so awful [/B]this past year[/quote]

Take it back, take it back right now or I'll go after you like Adam Carriker on Jeremy Jarmon in the weight room.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;802904]Yeah, but Montana also managed to send Taylor, Rice, and Clark to either the Pro-Bowl/Hall of Fame based off of his output. Only person McNabb made look good was Staley/Westbrook.[/quote]

Outside of TO he didn't have much to work with at WR for most of his time in Philly

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Mattyk;802922]Outside of TO he didn't have much to work with at WR for most of his time in Philly[/quote]


Whoa whoa whoa! He had James Thrash buddy! A redskins legend

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;802927]Whoa whoa whoa! He had James Thrash buddy! A redskins legend[/quote]

You guys have never heard me say anything bad about SirClintonPortis. One guy doesn't make a forum. Break a forum, maybe. We don't have to replace SCP. Understand we don't have to replace SCP.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Is a sophist like a couch potato?

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;802808] Sophist and mind reader. Rather than prove the falseness behind my assertions, you just conviniently use an "appeal to the majority" fallacy. Good for you, moron. I have no respect for that type of fallacious argumentation.[/quote]Nice.
You can't just be wrong, you gotta be wrong and classless.
Cool.

Argument Ad Ignorantiam

When a proposition is argued to be true because it has not been proven false: [quote=SirClintonPortis;802808]Rather than prove the falseness behind my assertions[/quote]

SCP.
Opens mouth inserts foot.
Rinse.
Wash.
Repeat.

-Hail

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Beck seems ready to start

[url=http://www.csnwashington.com/05/16/11/John-Beck-I-believe-Im-a-starter-in-the-/landing_redskins_loud3r.html?blockID=523582&feedID=6458]John Beck: 'I believe I'm a starter in the NFL'[/url]

I'm not sure I see it happening here though

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803119]Beck seems ready to start

[url=http://www.csnwashington.com/05/16/11/John-Beck-I-believe-Im-a-starter-in-the-/landing_redskins_loud3r.html?blockID=523582&feedID=6458]John Beck: 'I believe I'm a starter in the NFL'[/url]

[B]I'm not sure I see it happening here though[/B][/quote]

You've peaked my interest. Please elaborate on your fallacy for which you appeal the majority of which is appealed passive aggressively.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;803120]You've peaked my interest. Please elaborate on your fallacy for which you appeal the majority of which is appealed passive aggressively.[/quote]

LOL!

Avaunt thee, with thy filth ere I banish thy cuckoldish misgivings anon!

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Funny though. Just when I was getting back on the Vince Young bandwagon.

Fate quote from Vince Young game vs Dolphins: "Young looks very good here, he knew he was going to Washington the whole way."

Of course this was on a rollout pass that was thrown to teammate Nate Washington but I digress.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Beck's psyche may take a serious hit in the event he's not successful with his obsession at being the Redskins starting QB. The guy's putting in a lot of work.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/john-beck-im-thinking-im-the-starter/2011/05/16/AFKPLL5G_blog.html]John Beck: ‘I’m thinking I’m the starter’ - DC Sports Bog - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

lol damn Beck is getting me all fired up at this point.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Like I said who knows? Maybe JB is legit