Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Mattyk;892223]No issue with cheering the hit, but cheering the injury is another thing.

Are we really still stuck on this?[/quote]

It seems like many feel they have to stand on their soap box and pontificate.
This is the never ending story. I am so tired of it already. Fine and suspend GW severely. Enough grassy knoll theories as to who shot PManning. I knew this was going get stupid.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Defensewins;892365]It seems like many feel they have to stand on their soap box and pontificate.
This is the never ending story. I am so tired of it already. Fine and suspend GW severely. Enough grassy knoll theories as to who shot PManning. I knew this was going get stupid.[/quote]

It was Maggie, she shot Peyton Manning.

[IMG]http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs24/i/2008/019/1/3/Maggie_shooting__by_leif_j.png[/IMG]

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

Lol, in my private thoughts, I was thinking that if I were a GM, I'd pay off hockey players to injure players on the Capitals because I hate them that much.

Gregg is a bright mind. Unethical, but bright, and I like his brightness.
:FIREdevil

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

Watching ESPN, wondering to myself. Why hasn't Jacksonville been pulled into the muck with Washington and Buffalo?

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;892398]
Gregg is a bright mind. Unethical, but bright, and I like his brightness.
:FIREdevil[/quote]

So were many other dictators and mass murders throughout history.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=BuckSkin;892408]Watching ESPN, wondering to myself. Why hasn't Jacksonville been pulled into the muck with Washington and Buffalo?[/quote]

I'd been wondering if that's why he left Jacksonville rather abruptly. Like did they know of this and essentially dismiss him?

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

I do not condone bounty hunting in the NFL.

With that being said it appears that the average payout for one of thes bounties was less than 1/2 of a percent of an average players annual salary. Escuse me for saying so, but that would be like "earning a sticker" as Shawn Springs suggested. I do not find this to be a mallicious thing as much as I would label this as a play hard thing. Feel free to rebuke me if you deem necessary, but I believe that it is being blown out of proportion.

Edit: if you consider that .005 percent of the average household income of 40K per year is $200 and roughly 11-22 players chip into the pool it would be an average man's bet of 5-10 dollars. Kick in the fines and penalties that were allocated to these payouts and respectively it wasn't much at all.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7650006/washington-redskins-players-coach-say-fund-big-plays-not-bounties]Washington Redskins players, coach say fund for big plays, not 'bounties' - ESPN[/url]

Great article and this is the kinda stuff that goes on all over the country.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;892410]So were many other dictators and mass murders throughout history.[/quote]

Hence why in certain situaitons, the worst thing anyone can do is underestimate the enemy's brains. ;)

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=SmootSmack;892416]I'd been wondering if that's why he left Jacksonville rather abruptly. Like did they know of this and essentially dismiss him?[/quote]

Or the reason he was shown the door in DC in favor of Zorn and Blache.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=BuckSkin;892427]Or the reason he was shown the door in DC in favor of Zorn and Blache.[/quote]

Nah, I think Vinny being a moron combined with them suddenly souring on Fassel did the trick. Somehow, Vinny and Danny were sooooo wowed by Zorn's interviewing magic that they decided to make him head coach. Plus, Gregg wouldn't be a puppet for them.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=BuckSkin;892427]Or the reason he was shown the door in DC in favor of Zorn and Blache.[/quote]

I bet all those fanboys out there championing for GW for head coach have egg on their face now. Imagine had he become our HC only to have this crap happen to us.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=NC_Skins;892440]I bet all those fanboys out there championing for GW for head coach have egg on their face now. Imagine had he become our HC only to have this crap happen to us.[/quote]Well, that's a stupid way to put it.

1) There's a good chance we'd be better off as a franchise if he got hired instead of Zorn.

2) If he had been here and the league had warned him to stop the program and he did not, I and many others would advocate his immediate dismissal when the NFL broke their silence regarding this story on Friday.

There's no reason to look at this as a referendum on the hiring process in 2008. It's a logical position that he could have been (and probably was) the best guy for the job in 2008, but not in 2012.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

I was never a Blatche fan, but I do respect and agree about what he says about Gibbs. [url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/blache-gibbs-had-no-idea-of-redskins-bounty-system/2012/03/05/gIQATwfZtR_blog.html]Blache: Joe Gibbs ‘had no idea’ of Redskins’ bounty system - The Insider - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

Matt Bowen is a lying sucker for that article he wrote.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;892459]Matt Bowen is a lying sucker for that article he wrote.[/quote]

What in the world did he have to gain? I think it is entirely possible that different players had different views about what the "program's" goals were.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Chico23231;892423][url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7650006/washington-redskins-players-coach-say-fund-big-plays-not-bounties]Washington Redskins players, coach say fund for big plays, not 'bounties' - ESPN[/url]

Great article and this is the kinda stuff that goes on all over the country.[/quote]

Fred Smoot weighs in too.

[url=http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/24317/Smoot--Williams-never-paid-Redskins-for-injuring-opponents/Default.aspx]Smoot: Williams never paid Redskins for injuring opponents[/url]

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;892486]Fred Smoot weighs in too.

[URL="http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/24317/Smoot--Williams-never-paid-Redskins-for-injuring-opponents/Default.aspx"]Smoot: Williams never paid Redskins for injuring opponents[/URL][/quote]

So this pot that Smoot is speaking of, was it kept locked up on the Love Boat?

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Darrell_Green_28;892488]So this pot that Smoot is speaking of, was it kept locked up on the Love Boat?[/quote]

No, Fred Davis was smoking it.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Angry;892417]I do not condone bounty hunting in the NFL.

With that being said it appears that the average payout for one of thes bounties was less than 1/2 of a percent of an average players annual salary. Escuse me for saying so, but that would be like "earning a sticker" as Shawn Springs suggested. I do not find this to be a mallicious thing as much as I would label this as a play hard thing. Feel free to rebuke me if you deem necessary, but I believe that it is being blown out of proportion.

Edit: if you consider that .005 percent of the average household income of 40K per year is $200 and roughly 11-22 players chip into the pool it would be an average man's bet of 5-10 dollars. Kick in the fines and penalties that were allocated to these payouts and respectively it wasn't much at all.[/quote]

The dollar amount really isn't the issue.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

Everything concerning Williams in Washington and Buffalo is alleged. Now you have players speaking out against what Williams has been accused of. Greg Blache says Gregg Williams is guilty in Washington. London Fletcher and Fred Smoot are saying that wasn't the case. Williams has already admitted wrong doing in the N.O. Saints case on the same charges.

Whether he did it or not in Washington and Buffalo doesn't matter because he's been gone from coaching the defense in both of those cities for a while. Roger Goddell still has a decision to make and he's going to protect the image of the NFL to the best of his ability meaning that he could very well make an example of Williams. Williams will get punished, that much is certain. But to what severity is anyone's guess at this point.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Darrell_Green_28;892488]So this pot that Smoot is speaking of, was it kept locked up on the Love Boat?[/quote]

When i coached we called it the Kitty. Id buy the guys burger, pizza, and ice cream for knock out shots and "Big Sticks" they loved it. I guess ill :FIREdevil for it to. Godspeed Greg Williams Godspeed.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=FRPLG;892475]What in the world did he have to gain? I think it is entirely possible that different players had different views about what the "program's" goals were.[/quote]

Readers for his article. Readers= appearances on radio/tv = money

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

Good read here

[url=http://cnnsi.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?expire=&title=For+three+years,+the+NFL+says,+members+of+the+Saints+-+03.12.12+-+SI+Vault&urlID=472015825&action=cpt&partnerID=289881&fb=Y&url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1195695/index.htm]For three years, the NFL says, members of the Saints - 03.12.12 - SI Vault[/url]

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;892533]Readers for his article. Readers= appearances on radio/tv = money[/quote]

Bowen doesn't seem like the type to go that route.

Besides, it's not like he's the only one who is saying there were bounties to take players out of games.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

angry brought up something which was the stickers.

Don't you get a sticker in college football for good stuff one of which should be hitting/tackling? I bet someone has gotten a sticker in the course of the NCAAFB for knocking a guy out of the game.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=SmootSmack;892535]Good read here

[URL="http://cnnsi.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?expire=&title=For+three+years,+the+NFL+says,+members+of+the+Saints+-+03.12.12+-+SI+Vault&urlID=472015825&action=cpt&partnerID=289881&fb=Y&url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1195695/index.htm"]For three years, the NFL says, members of the Saints - 03.12.12 - SI Vault[/URL][/quote]

People may not like it but it's the culture of football. Williams went overboard with it and deserves a suspension. Williams paid cash and Gibbs use to do it w/ Sony Walkman's.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

You don't reward a player for trying to get someone carted off the field, that is not the culture of football. Not at any level

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;892533]Readers for his article. Readers= appearances on radio/tv = money[/quote]

Enjoy your cynical view of the world.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=SmootSmack;892535]Good read here

[URL="http://cnnsi.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?expire=&title=For+three+years,+the+NFL+says,+members+of+the+Saints+-+03.12.12+-+SI+Vault&urlID=472015825&action=cpt&partnerID=289881&fb=Y&url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1195695/index.htm"]For three years, the NFL says, members of the Saints - 03.12.12 - SI Vault[/URL][/quote]

wow, you have to think the punishments handed down could be unprecedented.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

"In a makeshift meeting room, with the whisper of evening traffic pouring in from the Beltway, we laid our bounties on opposing players."

little much IMO
Who was in this room? Did Greg say take this guy out we will give u x amount of dollars. That doesn't sound right.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;892554]"In a makeshift meeting room, with the whisper of evening traffic pouring in from the Beltway, we laid our bounties on opposing players."

little much IMO
Who was in this room? Did Greg say take this guy out we will give u x amount of dollars. That doesn't sound right.[/quote]

I think he said enough, more details will only open the can of worms even more.

The dirty details are better left said to the league only.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

i agree, for me this is too much

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

This could actually be a new cool concept to add to the excitment of football. Like hocky has players they send out to start a fights. Football teams have players they send out to take out other players.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

This is so over blown. I bet guys like George Allen, Bud Carson, and Jim Johnson are rolling over and :vomit:. While Buddy Ryan & Dick Lebeau are shaking their head.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

This is the full official statement from the league

[QUOTE]

A lengthy investigation by the NFL’s security department has disclosed that between 22 and 27 defensive players on the New Orleans Saints, as well as at least one assistant coach, maintained a “bounty” program funded primarily by players in violation of NFL rules during the 2009, 2010 and 2011 seasons, the NFL announced today.

The league’s investigation determined that this improper “Pay for Performance” program included “bounty” payments to players for inflicting injuries on opposing players that would result in them being removed from a game.

The findings – corroborated by multiple independent sources – have been presented to Commissioner Roger Goodell, who will determine the appropriate discipline for the violation.

“The payments here are particularly troubling because they involved not just payments for ‘performance,’ but also for injuring opposing players,” Commissioner Goodell said. “The bounty rule promotes two key elements of NFL football: player safety and competitive integrity.

“It is our responsibility to protect player safety and the integrity of our game, and this type of conduct will not be tolerated. We have made significant progress in changing the culture with respect to player safety and we are not going to relent. We have more work to do and we will do it.”

The players regularly contributed cash into a pool and received improper cash payments of two kinds from the pool based on their play in the previous week’s game. Payments were made for plays such as interceptions and fumble recoveries, but the program also included “bounty” payments for “cart-offs” (meaning that the opposing player was carried off the field) and “knockouts” (meaning that the opposing player was not able to return to the game).

The investigation showed that the total amount of funds in the pool may have reached $50,000 or more at its height during the 2009 playoffs. The program paid players $1,500 for a “knockout” and $1,000 for a “cart-off” with payouts doubling or tripling during the playoffs.

The investigation included the review of approximately 18,000 documents totaling more than 50,000 pages, interviews of a wide range of individuals and the use of outside forensic experts to verify the authenticity of key documents.

The NFL has a longstanding rule prohibiting “Non-Contract Bonuses.” Non-contract bonuses violate both the NFL Constitution and By-Laws and the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Clubs are advised every year of this rule in a memo from the commissioner. Citing Sections 9.1(C)(8), and 9.3(F) and (G) of the Constitution and By-Laws, the memo for the 2011 season stated:

“No bonus or award may directly or indirectly be offered, promised, announced, or paid to a player for his or his team’s performance against a particular team or opposing player or a particular group thereof. No bonuses or awards may be offered or paid for on field misconduct (for example, personal fouls to or injuries inflicted on opposing players).”

“Our investigation began in early 2010 when allegations were first made that Saints players had targeted opposing plyers, including Kurt Warner of the Cardinals and Brett Favre of the Vikings,” Commissioner Goodell said. “Our security department interviewed numerous players and other individuals. At the time, those interviewed denied that any such program existed and the player that made the allegation retracted his earlier assertions. As a result, the allegations could not be proven. We recently received significant and credible new information and the investigation was re-opened during the latter part of the 2011 season.”

The additional investigation established the following facts:

1. During the 2009, 2010 and 2011 seasons, the players and other participants involved used their own money to fund a “Pay for Performance” program. Players earned cash awards for plays such as interceptions or fumble recoveries. They also earned “bounty” payments for “cart-offs” and “knockouts.” All such payments violate league rules for non-contract bonuses.

2. Players were willing and enthusiastic participants in the program, contributing regularly and at times pledging large amounts. Between 22 and 27 defensive players contributed funds to the pool over the course of three NFL seasons. In some cases, the amounts pledged were both significant and directed against a specific opposing player.

3. The bounty program was administered by defensive coordinator Gregg Williams with the knowledge of other defensive coaches. Funds were contributed on occasion by Williams.

4. Saints owner Tom Benson gave immediate and full cooperation to the investigators. The evidence conclusively established that Mr. Benson was not aware of the bounty program. When informed earlier this year of the new information, Mr. Benson advised league staff that he had directed his general manager, Mickey Loomis, to ensure that any bounty program be discontinued immediately. The evidence showed that Mr. Loomis did not carry out Mr. Benson’s directions. Similarly, when the initial allegations were discussed with Mr. Loomis in 2010, he denied any knowledge of a bounty program and pledged that he would ensure that no such program was in place. There is no evidence that Mr. Loomis took any effective action to stop these practices.

5. Although head coach Sean Payton was not a direct participant in the funding or administration of the program, he was aware of the allegations, did not make any detailed inquiry or otherwise seek to learn the facts, and failed to stop the bounty program. He never instructed his assistant coaches or players that a bounty program was improper and could not continue.

6. There is no question that a bounty program violates long-standing league rules. Payments of this type – even for legitimate plays such as interceptions or fumble recoveries – are forbidden because they are inconsistent with the Collective Bargaining Agreement and well-accepted rules relating to NFL player contracts.

Commissioner Goodell has advised the Saints that he will hold further proceedings to determine the discipline to be assessed against individuals and the club. This will include conferring with the NFL Players Association and individual player leaders regarding appropriate discipline and remedial steps.

The discipline could include fines and suspensions and, in light of the competitive nature of the violation, forfeiture of draft choices. Any discipline may be appealed as provided for in the Constitution and By-Laws and Collective Bargaining Agreement. Any appeal would be heard and decided by the commissioner.

Commissioner Goodell also advised the Saints that he is retaining jurisdiction and reserving his authority to impose further discipline if additional information comes to his attention[/QUOTE]

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

The investigation included the review of approximately 18,000 documents totaling more than 50,000 pages.

They should have goen paperless.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=firstdown;892612]The investigation included the review of approximately 18,000 documents totaling more than 50,000 pages.

They should have goen paperless.[/quote]

5 gigabytes of PDFs!! LOL.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;892576]This is so over blown. I bet guys like George Allen, Bud Carson, and Jim Johnson are rolling over and :vomit:. While Buddy Ryan & Dick Lebeau are shaking their head.[/quote]

While they may be doing that, what about the guys that can't walk anymore or have dementia from getting hit in the head too many times. Yeah there is a risk involved with playing football as there are risks in everything. But if we know there are things that can be done to make the game safer then why would we not. I just don't understand how people can use the excuse that, that's the way it used to be. We also used to drive cars that didn't have seat belts, now its a law in pretty much every state. Things change and we as a people evolve and adapt.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;892554]"[B]In a makeshift meeting room, with the whisper of evening traffic pouring in from the Beltway, we laid our bounties on opposing players." [/B]

little much IMO
Who was in this room? Did Greg say take this guy out we will give u x amount of dollars. That doesn't sound right.[/quote]

That sounds like a ladies smut novel on the discount rack by the check out at the grocery store. Who talks like that?