Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=GTripp0012;896424]They're not being accused of violating US federal or state law though, so a lawsuit against the National Football League by the Washington Redskins is highly dubious.

If they violated any rule, it was a rule in the old CBA.[/quote]

so contracts between two non federal entities aren't binding? if the CBA says the year is uncapped, then guess what? you can't punish people for treating that year as uncapped unless you had documentation proven that it really wasn't... which, by the way, would incriminate the league for collusion.


there's a difference between criminal, civil, and law and contract law, and agreements are binding regardless of state involvement. obviously not a lawyer, but I don't think it'd be dubious at all.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

I'd like to see more info on other teams that also used the uncapped year, and aren't being punished for it.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=That Guy;896709]so contracts between two non federal entities aren't binding? if the CBA says the year is uncapped, then guess what? you can't punish people for treating that year as uncapped unless you had documentation proven that it really wasn't... which, by the way, would incriminate the league for collusion.


there's a difference between criminal, civil, and law and contract law, and agreements are binding regardless of state involvement. obviously not a lawyer, but I don't think it'd be dubious at all.[/quote]The multiple defenses the Redskins can use aside here, 30 owners acting as the NFL can in-fact decide to impose penalties on unwritten rules. That's what the NBA did essentially when they rejected the Chris Paul-Lakers trade (although in that case, the league actually owned one of the teams).

It will be interesting to see if the Redskins can successfully defend themselves. If they're going to defend themselves by litigation, I have no idea how they plan to do that.

If they plan to just reject the penalty on the grounds that the league approved all their moves when made according to the old CBA, I do think the league will have a difficult time forcing this penalty on them. I question whether the league is powerful enough to make the Redskins and Cowboys comply.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=SBXVII;896585]

I just don't see how Collusion applies;
[URL="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/collusion"]Collusion | Define Collusion at Dictionary.com[/URL]
[/quote]

In 2010 the NFL OWNERS colluded to artificial hold down player salaries and not dump money in the uncapped year. the redskin and cowboys (among many others) did.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Ruhskins;896543]As Rich Tandler put it...

Rich Tandler ‏ @Rich_Tandler
So the NFLPA agreed to take $46 million from the #Redskins and #Cowboys, who would spend it, to teams like the Bengals and Bucs who won't.[/quote]

This is why the players union should be effffffffing livid.

I cant believe the league office is trying to pull this shit 24 hours before free agency.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

This is how Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones probably feel

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHK8cPPE45k&feature=player_detailpage#t=227s]Pulp Fiction - 07 - Butch & Marsellus (Part 2) - YouTube[/url]

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Lotus;896666]It's Occupy NFL. The 99% are lashing out at the richest teams.

We need to tear gas the league offices.[/quote]

Now this made me laugh

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=GTripp0012;896712]The multiple defenses the Redskins can use aside here, 30 owners acting as the NFL can in-fact decide to impose penalties on unwritten rules. That's what the NBA did essentially when they rejected the Chris Paul-Lakers trade (although in that case, the league actually owned one of the teams).

It will be interesting to see if the Redskins can successfully defend themselves. If they're going to defend themselves by litigation, I have no idea how they plan to do that.

If they plan to just reject the penalty on the grounds that the league approved all their moves when made according to the old CBA, I do think the league will have a difficult time forcing this penalty on them. I question whether the league is powerful enough to make the Redskins and Cowboys comply.[/quote]

the chris paul trade wasn't rejected after he had already been on the team for 2 years. this is penalizing them for something the nfl approved of at the time (the contracts), and the NFL is also being very selective on the teams (2 of MANY) it's choosing to hit... I still find it hard to prove they violated contract terms that didn't actually exist.

maybe we should get 30 teams together to say that the giants no longer exist. I'm sure they wouldn't fight that...

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Evilgrin;896710]I'd like to see more info on other teams that also used the uncapped year, and aren't being punished for it.[/quote]Green Bay seems to be getting away with murder here.

The Raiders are being "punished" to the tune of about $2 mil in cap room because they, uh, released JaMarcus Russell. I can see the anti competitive balance argument (with Washington and Dallas), but if you're arguing that releasing Russell when they did was a savvy cap technique instead of a football move, it would seem that you would have to explain why he hasn't been in the league in going on three years.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

The more significant argument to me is: what about all the teams that dropped below the salary floor in 2010 because they were no longer obligated to spend? Should the total leaguewide cap NOT be increased because those teams cut salary specific to the uncapped year?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

This is a big mess. If I'm the Redskins, I'm calling Mike Holmgren, making a deal, getting my draft picks back and then some, drafting Weedon and calling it a day.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=skinsfan69;896722]This is a big mess. If I'm the Redskins, I'm calling Mike Holmgren, making a deal, getting my draft picks back and then some, drafting Weedon and calling it a day.[/quote]

Thank goodness you aren't the Redskins.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;896722]This is a big mess. If I'm the Redskins, I'm calling Mike Holmgren, making a deal, getting my draft picks back and then some, drafting Weedon and calling it a day.[/QUOTE]



[QUOTE=skinsfan69;896722]This is a big mess. If I'm the Redskins, I'm calling Mike Holmgren, making a deal, getting my draft picks back and then some, drafting Weedon and calling it a day.[/QUOTE]



People keep saying this and it's just as stupid now as the first time I read it.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=skinsfan69;896722]This is a big mess. If I'm the Redskins, I'm calling Mike Holmgren, making a deal, getting my draft picks back and then some, drafting Weedon and calling it a day.[/quote]

dude, breathe...

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=skinsfan69;896722]This is a big mess. If I'm the Redskins, I'm calling Mike Holmgren, making a deal, getting my draft picks back and then some, drafting Weedon and calling it a day.[/quote]

What does The trade have to do with this?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=GTripp0012;896721]The more significant argument to me is: what about all the teams that dropped below the salary floor in 2010 because they were no longer obligated to spend? Should the total leaguewide cap NOT be increased because those teams cut salary specific to the uncapped year?[/quote]

That's a great point. The real issue here seem to be the other 30 teams are pissed that the skins and cowboys didn't honor a "gentlemans agreement" and now they want revenge.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Beyond collusion, there is a huge conflict of interest apparent when they retroactively punish the team with the most cap space to spend. With some of the decision makers being free agent competitors.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;896729]That's a great point. The real issue here seem to be the other 30 teams are pissed that the skins and cowboys didn't honor a[B] "gentlemans agreement"[/B] and now they want revenge.[/quote]

The SKINS & cowgurls are going to say you agreed to it but we didin't

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Many of the team owners (that don't spend) have always been jealous of those that do.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=GTripp0012;896712]

If they plan to just reject the penalty on the grounds that the league approved all their moves when made according to the old CBA, I do think the league will have a difficult time forcing this penalty on them. I question whether the league is powerful enough to make the Redskins and Cowboys comply.[/quote]

This at least seems to be the opening gambit. Either the league has the power to do this or it does not. If it does, then it has to produce the documents and follow the correct procedures. And when that happens, it's going to look pretty bad, or so it seems. So maybe the league backs down. But man, then they look like putzes. Still, they haven't endorsed the numbers or even said the skins are implicated. So maybe they can blame it on a false media leak!

Whatever. This is going to be interesting.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=skinsfan69;896722]This is a big mess. If I'm the Redskins, I'm calling Mike Holmgren, making a deal, getting my draft picks back and then some, drafting Weedon and calling it a day.[/quote]

Lol, I'm never committing a crime with you.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=JWsleep;896734]This at least seems to be the opening gambit. Either the league has the power to do this or it does not. If it does, then it has to produce the documents and follow the correct procedures. And when that happens, it's going to look pretty bad, or so it seems. [B] So maybe the league backs down[/B]. But man, then they look like putzes. [B]Still, they haven't endorsed the numbers or even said the skins are implicated. So maybe they can blame it on a false media leak![/B]

Whatever. This is going to be interesting.[/quote]
THAT is definitely the way this thing needs to go........

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Also, anyone know who is on this committee currently? Mara chairs it, but that's all I know.

Management Council Executive Committee

They made the decision, apparently.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Anyone wanna bet that they put out the punishment at 3.6 mil tomorrow and blame the reports on a misplaced decimal?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=IrMitchell;896678]No we are not screwed. We just need to resign Fletch and get a receiver.[/quote]

I agree, but we really need to revamp the O line first of all for RG III. The fact that we had to cut players, that we probably wouldn't have is my beef. We were trying to get rid of the chaffe, not necessarily decent backups. I might be overreacting, but this does put a damper on what we can do. Having our cap space cut in half does bind us in what we can do now. And with the loss of those first rounders to move up for RG III, we have to wait another season or two for the rebuilding to come to fruition. Instead of 2013-14 we might be looking at 2015-16 til we really field a great team.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=GTripp0012;896721]The more significant argument to me is: what about all the teams that dropped below the salary floor in 2010 because they were no longer obligated to spend? Should the total leaguewide cap NOT be increased because those teams cut salary specific to the uncapped year?[/quote]

except the NFLPA can't arbitrarily make up rules and enforce them... and they already agreed to drop 2010 collusion charges against the NFL as part of the new CBA. I guess they could go after individual teams for dropping below the floor (as part of said collusion), but good luck proving that wasn't just cheap owners being cheap.

It's an owners league.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=skinster;896145]Wow, the NFL could not have gotten us at a worse time. 1 day before free agency. I know the league office is judge, jurry, and executioner; but in a case where we broke no rules yet are severely punnished Is there a higher power we can appeal to? Like a court?[/quote]


Of course the Skins, Cowboys and any other "offenders" can singly or in unison file a suit against the NFL. Anyone can file a suit against anyone else at any time for anything; all you need do is fill out the paperwork at the courthouse correctly.

However, any team that files a suit here - - whether or not it wins or loses that lawsuit - - best never come close to breaking any other league rules. Al Davis beat the NFL in court once; look how many "breaks" the Raiders got from the league in the 20 years following that victory.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

^ You're definitely overreacting

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=biffle;896741]Anyone wanna bet that they put out the punishment at 3.6 mil tomorrow and blame the reports on a misplaced decimal?[/quote]

I doubt it but I sure as hell hope so.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=That Guy;896746]except the NFLPA can't arbitrarily make up rules and enforce them... [/quote]

You sure about that?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=GTripp0012;896712]The multiple defenses the Redskins can use aside here, 30 owners acting as the NFL can in-fact decide to impose penalties on unwritten rules. [B]That's what the NBA did essentially when they rejected the Chris Paul-Lakers trade[/B] (although in that case, the league actually owned one of the teams).

It will be interesting to see if the Redskins can successfully defend themselves. If they're going to defend themselves by litigation, I have no idea how they plan to do that.

If they plan to just reject the penalty on the grounds that the league approved all their moves when made according to the old CBA, I do think the league will have a difficult time forcing this penalty on them. I question whether the league is powerful enough to make the Redskins and Cowboys comply.[/quote]

But your talking about a league that looked at a trade scenario and said no you can't do it. They didn't approve it and later cry foul.

The NFL had every opportunity to contact both teams and say "you can't do that" or reject the contracts/deals that were made. But they didn't. They approved them and now later the other teams are crying fould cause they don't have as much money to spend and now they want the NFL to penalize both teams in order to make them competative with the Skins and Cowboys. You can't do that.

By the way, the CBA had expired. What they had basically was a gentlemans agreement if you'd call it that and the league approved the deals.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=biffle;896751]You sure about that?[/quote]

Yeah, that's why there's a CBA. The NFL can make up rules about player safety and things like that, but I'm pretty sure they can't just make up salary cap rules on the fly.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=biffle;896751]You sure about that?[/quote]

the players association? yeah, what's the last arbitrary thing they've done without league consent that's stuck?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Secondly why are the teams sending their contract deals to the League for approval if they are not going to look at them and determine if it's legal or not? Sounds like someone is getting paid to do a job and they are not doing their job. If they are not going to preview the contracts then there is no need to send them to the NFL.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=SBXVII;896754]But your talking about a league that looked at a trade scenario and said no you can't do it. They didn't approve it and later cry foul.

The NFL had every opportunity to contact both teams and say "you can't do that" or reject the contracts/deals that were made. But they didn't. They approved them and now later the other teams are crying fould cause they don't have as much money to spend and now they want the NFL to penalize both teams in order to make them competative with the Skins and Cowboys. You can't do that.

By the way, the CBA had expired. What they had basically was a gentlemans agreement if you'd call it that and the league approved the deals.[/quote]

The NBA also owns the team who's trade they rejected. Owners can veto trades their GMs make, and that's basically what happened there, though the owner being the league made it seem like something else.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=mooby;896755]Yeah, that's why there's a CBA. The NFL can make up rules about player safety and things like that, but I'm pretty sure they can't just make up salary cap rules on the fly.[/quote]

They usually don't make up playing rules like that either. It's brought up at owners meetings and discussed and voted on then put into action the following year not midseason.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=mooby;896755]Yeah, that's why there's a CBA. The NFL can make up rules about player safety and things like that, but I'm pretty sure they can't just make up salary cap rules on the fly.[/quote]

I wouldn't have thought so either, but have you been following the news this afternoon?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

I'm going to go over to Matty's house and steal the rest of his cake because I verbally warned him three days ago that if he ate another piece, he'll gain five pounds. ;)

OK been out for a few( new baby boy) so what's the latest on this cap crap?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=skinsguy;896762]I'm going to go over to Matty's house and steal the rest of his cake because I verbally warned him three days ago that if he ate another piece, he'll gain five pounds. ;)[/quote]

sounds fair to me, as long as i get a slice.