Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

Build your core through the draft. You can add free agents for depth but it should not be the center of your team. Like trying to build around Haynesworth, Asomugha, or Archuleta usually does not end up well. What the skins should do in my opinion is wait and see whos available after the frenzy. I guarantee there will be players that will be available and will be cheap. Maybe Winfield will be one, heck even Hall might come back for a million dollars instead of the 8 million that was owed to him.

Make the right moves in free agency by getting cheap signings, and then build your team with 7-8 starters on both sides of the ball that were drafted by you.

Look at the "winners" in free agency the past couple of years... how many of won superbowls? Even made the playoffs?

The Eagles?
The Bucs?
The Bills?

Why not just follow what other great teams do, I want the Redskins to win superbowls, not to win free agents.

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

[quote=warriorzpath;998411]My point is its not about one vs the other. And with Garçon- you don't have that option. The option is to have Garcon with his salary cap hit or not have him on your team and less his salary. How much you value free agency is the real discussion. Not valuing the draft less or more. The draft is probably the most important way to build a team but the team that proved that they were the best had a good amount of Super Bowl players that made the biggest plays -that were signed through free agency.

[B]And re-signing your own free agents is part of free agency. Please. You can't take that out of the discussion to help your argument[/B].[/quote]

Yes I can... Tom Brady has never been an NFL free agent... Ever... He is not considered a FA signing by the Pats, he is considered a Pats draft pick. I very seriously doubt that RG3 will ever hit FA either. The only reason Peyton Manning hit it was because Peyton Manning #2 was available to be drafted by the team that owned the rights to Peyton Manning #1. Excuse the pun, but Indy had a nice bit of Luck with how that fell into place.

I have also told you how much I value FA. I value it as a supplemental thing to help build the team. Nothing more than that. I personally do not believe that not being able to sign everyone we want in FA to be a curse.

Honestly, if Vinny were still in charge, I would drive to NY and thank Mara personally for forcing us to concentrate on the draft.

As you have said yourself, SB teams have a handful of free agents. Handful usually means a few but not many. So that sounds right to me. Built through the draft primarily and supplemented with FA.

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

Personally I like the Garcon argument. Too much money and he could be replaced. HOWEVER, this isn't the summer to make any noise. Let's remain slow and methodical and try and salvage the season despite having no money. Worst case scenario we go into next summer with a 24/25 year old pro bowl quarterback and 30+ million in cap space.

EDIT: Actually it isn't worst case scenario, it's guaranteed.

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

[quote=IrMitchell;998472]Personally I like the Garcon argument. Too much money and he could be replaced. HOWEVER, this isn't the summer to make any noise. Let's remain slow and methodical and try and salvage the season despite having no money. Worst case scenario we go into next summer with a 24/25 year old pro bowl quarterback and 30+ million in cap space.

EDIT: Actually it isn't worst case scenario, it's guaranteed.[/quote]An automatic $18 mil in cap space in 2014, and hopefully a HEALTHY pro bowl QB. I hope Mike Shanahan gets an extension too, based on what he's done in building this team so far.

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

Need to be careful about saying an automatic 18 mil in cap space next year. We have already pushed some money back to next year and taken up some of that, but yes we should definitely be in better shape.

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

[quote=Skinzman;998488]Need to be careful about saying an automatic 18 mil in cap space next year. We have already pushed some money back to next year and taken up some of that, but yes we should definitely be in better shape.[/quote]Ah, good point, thanks.

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

[quote=Skinzman;998461]Yes I can... Tom Brady has never been an NFL free agent... Ever... He is not considered a FA signing by the Pats, he is considered a Pats draft pick. I very seriously doubt that RG3 will ever hit FA either. The only reason Peyton Manning hit it was because Peyton Manning #2 was available to be drafted by the team that owned the rights to Peyton Manning #1. Excuse the pun, but Indy had a nice bit of Luck with how that fell into place.

I have also told you how much I value FA. I value it as a supplemental thing to help build the team. Nothing more than that. I personally do not believe that not being able to sign everyone we want in FA to be a curse.

Honestly, if Vinny were still in charge, I would drive to NY and thank Mara personally for forcing us to concentrate on the draft.

As you have said yourself, SB teams have a handful of free agents. Handful usually means a few but not many. So that sounds right to me. Built through the draft primarily and supplemented with FA.[/quote]

Didn't read but your first statement. And let say again - Please. Tell that to the damn Ravens.

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

[quote=IrMitchell;998472]Personally I like the Garcon argument. Too much money and he could be replaced. HOWEVER, this isn't the summer to make any noise. Let's remain slow and methodical and try and salvage the season despite having no money. Worst case scenario we go into next summer with a 24/25 year old pro bowl quarterback and 30+ million in cap space.

EDIT: Actually it isn't worst case scenario, it's guaranteed.[/quote]

Garçon can be replaced? With who? I think this shows your football IQ. Who was a big part of the season ending redskins streak? Without him the Redskins probably lose at least one or two of those games and don't make it to the playoffs.

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

I just can't believe these 2 recent statements:
1) Re-signing free agents aren't considered a part of free agency.
2) Garçon can be replaced.

which I can add to someone's statement earlier in the week: he didn't say -will. He said- will be able to. I can't even begin to address how wrong these statements are. I just stare at them and just shake my head for like 5 minutes.

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

[quote=warriorzpath;998521]Didn't read but your first statement. And let say again - Please. Tell that to the damn Ravens.[/quote]

Tell the damn Ravens what? That they won the SB with Ed Reed, Ray Lewis, Joe Flacco, Torrey Smith, Hiloti Ngata, ect. Ozzie Newsome is one of the GM's who looks to draft first and add free agents second. That statement does not mean that Ozzie would never sign a free agent. No one has ever said signing zero free agents is the best way to build a team. How Ozzie does it is EXACTLY how I think it should be done. Build with the draft and supplement with FA.

Since the Super Bowl is such a huge argument for you. In the last 13 Super Bowls, 12 of the MVP's have been drafted by their respective team. The only one not to was Drew Brees.

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

[quote=Skinzman;998525]Tell the damn Ravens what? That they won the SB with Ed Reed, Ray Lewis, Joe Flacco, Torrey Smith, Hiloti Ngata, ect. Ozzie Newsome is one of the GM's who looks to draft first and add free agents second. That statement does not mean that Ozzie would never sign a free agent. No one has ever said signing zero free agents is the best way to build a team. How Ozzie does it is EXACTLY how I think it should be done. Build with the draft and supplement with FA.

Since the Super Bowl is such a huge argument for you. In the last 13 Super Bowls, 12 of the MVP's have been drafted by their respective team. The only one not to was Drew Brees.[/quote]

That the idea of re-signing your own free agents is not a part of free agency. And like I said before- I only read your first statement. All that other stuff is mumbo jumbo.

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

You said you don't count re-signing your own free agents as part of free agency. Tell that to the Ravens who are losing big players because they didn't re-sign theirs. But yeah that doesn't count right?

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

[quote=warriorzpath;998523]I just can't believe these 2 recent statements:
1) Re-signing free agents aren't considered a part of free agency.
2) Garçon can be replaced.

which I can add to someone's statement earlier in the week: he didn't say -will. He said- will be able to. I can't even begin to address how wrong these statements are. I just stare at them and just shake my head for like 5 minutes.[/quote]

You honestly dont understand the difference between "I ~will~ go to Hawaii on vacation" or "I ~will be able to~ go to Hawaii on vacation"?

You are shaking your head for 5 minutes because you dont seem to understand basic English.

Also tell me when Tom Brady was ever a Free Agent. For that to happen, he actually has to hit Free Agency. The Pats have never let anyone bid on Brady's services because they never let him hit Free Agency. If he was never a Free Agent, then he was never a Free Agent. If he was never a Free Agent, then he has never signed a Free Agent contract. Seems pretty basic to me.

One of the problems is that you consider people on their first contract ONLY to be draft picks. Ask anyone if Tom Brady was a draft pick by the Pats or a Free Agent signing by the Pats. Im pretty sure the general consensus will be that he falls in the drafted camp and not the Free Agent signing camp.

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

[quote=warriorzpath;998531]You said you don't count re-signing your own free agents as part of free agency. Tell that to the Ravens who are losing big players because they didn't re-sign theirs. But yeah that doesn't count right?[/quote]

Losing players due to the cap has nothing to do with what we have been talking about the whole time. No team can sign everyone.

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

And I said the draft is the most important part of obtaining talent. Why in the heck do you keep ignoring that? Is it like ignoring the re-signing of your own free agents being part of free agency? It's just convenient to your argument isn't it?

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

[quote=Skinzman;998535]Losing players due to the cap has nothing to do with what we have been talking about the whole time. No team can sign everyone.[/quote]

But it's a part of free agency though- isn't it?

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

[quote=warriorzpath;998538]And I said the draft is the most important part of obtaining talent. Why in the heck do you keep ignoring that? Is it like ignoring the re-signing of your own free agents being part of free agency? It's just convenient to your argument isn't it?[/quote]

And I have explained my position on Free Agency. Never once have I said to never sign a player in Free Agency and only draft players. I have said the whole time to build the main part of the team in the draft and then use Free Agency to fill out the team.

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

[quote=warriorzpath;998539]But it's a part of free agency though- isn't it?[/quote]

Its a part of Free Agency if you let them hit Free Agency. If they have never been Free Agents, then they have never been Free Agents. And the only time that is possible to not let them be Free Agents is if you draft the player.

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

[quote=Skinzman;998540]And I have explained my position on Free Agency. Never once have I said to never sign a player in Free Agency and only draft players. I have said the whole time to build the main part of the team in the draft and then use Free Agency to fill out the team.[/quote]

I'm going to keep asking you this until I beat it in your head - signing your own free agents is a part of free agency. Because if you don't re-sign them you lose them - in free agency.

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

this thread got really stupid. can we stop. no offense to either side, but FA and the draft are both important. yay! argument solved.

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

thank youuu, shit

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

Your welcome sht head.

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

This thread makes me wanna

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/R6qrD.gif[/IMG]

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

Id suggest locking this thread. Its degenerated into stupidity. Besides that, we're not getting any cap space back. Its time to stop beating this dead horse and put it out of its misery.

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

[IMG]http://www.gameinformer.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer-Discussions-Components-Files/12/2502.InBeforeLock.gif[/IMG]

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

ok Lavar Burton... lol

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

Pretty impressive for a blind dude.

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

I just broke up with Taylor Swift.

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;998634]I just broke up with Taylor Swift.[/quote]

I'll expect her new album next week then...

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;998634]I just broke up with Taylor Swift.[/quote]

[quote=mbedner3420;998636]I'll expect her new album next week then...[/quote]

Taylor's new hit single:

"Alvin Stabby-sticked Me in My Heart"

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

[quote=SkinzWin;998649]Taylor's new hit single:

"Alvin Stabby-sticked Me in My Heart"[/quote]

lololololol "Captain Stabbin Alvin"

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;998634]I just broke up with Taylor Swift.[/quote]

So what will you call your hand next week?

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

This thread is becoming obsolete. The Redskins didn't get even a small amount of the cap space back due to the cap penalty. What else is there to really say about it?

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;998705]This thread is becoming obsolete. The Redskins didn't get even a small amount of the cap space back due to the cap penalty. What else is there to really say about it?[/quote]

Nothing. Its time for someone to close it.

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

[quote=firstdown;998692]So what will you call your hand next week?[/quote]

:lol:

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

Threads tend to go away if you stop posting in them.

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

As a troll, I make sure threads like these stay at the top of the pile ;)

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

Thanks old man, you're the best

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/5zKXz.gif[/IMG]

Re: Good/Bad News for a Change - 2013 18MM cap penalty probably (not) going away
 

And we are never ever ever getting back together.

[QUOTE=Alvin Walton;998747]And we are never ever ever getting back together.[/QUOTE]

That figures, after all she knew you were trouble when you walked in.