Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

People keep mentioning the cap as an excuse. Who's to say that the player/players we bring in here can perform? We have free agents right now that aren't performing. How's Cofield and Bowen performing? What about Josh Wilson? I really hope we add a couple pieces but I really don't want to see the 2000 Redskins ever again. Oh.. how's Mike Wallace working out for Miami? Or Mario Williams for Buffalo? If any fan base should know that free agency is not the way to improve a team it's us.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1028286]People keep mentioning the cap as an excuse. Who's to say that the player/players we bring in here can perform? We have free agents right now that aren't performing. How's Cofield and Bowen performing? What about Josh Wilson? I really hope we add a couple pieces but I really don't want to see the 2000 Redskins ever again. Oh.. how's Mike Wallace working out for Miami? Or Mario Williams for Buffalo? If any fan base should know that free agency is not the way to improve a team it's us.[/quote]

Bowen and Cofoeld are solid, now if you want to talk about the back end or some other pieces like the insane amount of money Morgan is making I'll bite but Bowen and Cofield aren't going to get much play from me.

I am surprised at the way they have been using Rak and his problems making plays at the line.

Will be interesting to watch how much playing time Jackson gets once he comes back. There should be a good rotation of Jackson and Rak depending on the situation.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=Green Monk Machine;1028285]Something has to be shaken up on defense. 0-3 and [B]this whole team is virtually healthy[/B]. Has and Kyle need to change things up or we need to change from them.

On to Oakland and to accomplish the impossible task of being 10-6 to make our only chance of getting to the playoffs by winning the division.[/quote]

I have to disagree with that -- we have lost Keenan Robinson (Fletcher's heir apparent), Phillip Thomas (safety depth), Richard Crawford (expected to be our returner and in the CB mix), and Adam Carriker (arguably our best or second best DL) to injury. All players on D expected to contribute, some significantly, and D is where we are struggling the most right now. On a team that has been cash-strapped because of the cap hit and otherwise mis-managed until relatively recently that consequently has little depth, these injuries loom pretty large.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=Chico23231;1028281]You do Cousins for Josh Gordon? id strongly consider it.[/quote]

That would be a terrible trade. No way in hell if I were the Redskins would I make that trade.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1028272][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/23/rg3-blames-stupid-rule-for-his-fumble-it-just-sucks/]RG3 blames “stupid rule” for his fumble: “It just sucks” | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]Learn to slide feet first, and the rule becomes a moot point.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

griff's preseason is almost over.

rob jackson and jarvis jenkins will be back soon.

we'll be alright.

what's the word on tanard jackson? did he apply/reapply?

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=Chico23231;1028182]excuse. tired of them, he has to play better[/quote]
................or what?

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

no now if we can trade Cousins for Joe Haden then yes

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1028284]He was sliding forward trying to make a play. Not gonna kill him for that. The ground caused the fumble. It should be our ball. That's just a terrible rule. Now the INT? That was a stupid play and all on RG3.[/quote]

I agree it's a dumb rule. He clearly gave himself up. There shouldn't be a difference between going head first or feet first.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

when u are a bad team, those calls just don't go your way

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[quote=Mattyk;1028299]I agree it's a dumb rule. He clearly gave himself up. There shouldn't be a difference between going head first or feet first.[/quote]

Well the problem with that is if an offensive player slides forward to get more yards should a defender be penalized for hitting them as they are going forward?

For example, if the first down was a yard a way and the QB was trying to dive for the first down and a defender was standing right there how would the defender know if the QB is giving himself up or not.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/23/pierre-garcon-rgiii-obviously-isnt-completely-healthy/]Pierre Garçon: RGIII “obviously” isn’t completely healthy | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Seems like PG is making excuses for ROB

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1028284]He was sliding forward trying to make a play. Not gonna kill him for that. The ground caused the fumble. It should be our ball. That's just a terrible rule. Now the INT? That was a stupid play and all on RG3.[/quote]

I knew the minute the ball came out it was a fumble. Its all on him to know the rules and not blame it on being a stupid rule for not knowing. With us wanting to portect him more and him knowing he needs to slide more he should have known the rule. Maybe take the time to read sliding rules while your between interviews.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=donofriose;1028301]Well the problem with that is if an offensive player slides forward to get more yards should a defender be penalized for hitting them as they are going forward?

For example, if the first down was a yard a way and the QB was trying to dive for the first down and a defender was standing right there how would the defender know if the QB is giving himself up or not.[/quote]Exactly why it is not a stupid rule. Furthermore, a diving player is given the yardage until he is touched down by contact, so he gains the benefit of any yardage sliding on the ground after diving. With a feet first slide, the runner is declared down at the point where any part of his body, other than feet or hands, touches the ground. The moment Griffin lost the ball, I knew it was live. Stupid play on his part. I repeat: learn to slide feet first, for safety AND for ball security.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1028302][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/23/pierre-garcon-rgiii-obviously-isnt-completely-healthy/]Pierre Garçon: RGIII “obviously” isn’t completely healthy | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Seems like PG is making excuses for ROB[/quote]

I think RG3 is starting to get a lil irratated with Garcon. Last week he sounded really kinda irked from a Garcon comment when he made the "lets race" comment and now he keeps talking about RG3 health. So something to watch.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=calia;1028289]I have to disagree with that -- we have lost Keenan Robinson (Fletcher's heir apparent), Phillip Thomas (safety depth), Richard Crawford (expected to be our returner and in the CB mix), and Adam Carriker (arguably our best or second best DL) to injury. All players on D expected to contribute, some significantly, and D is where we are struggling the most right now. On a team that has been cash-strapped because of the cap hit and otherwise mis-managed until relatively recently that consequently has little depth, these injuries loom pretty large.[/quote]

Dude, every team will have a few guys out or hurt. I hear ya on the cash strapped but we still have decent depth and have been without Jenkins and Jackson who are top rotation guys. We are virutually too healthy right now- the entire offense is in tact even the OL. Robinson was a backup, Crawford hoped for more but likely not a week 1 starter on Def, Carriker gone but we knew that would happen, Thomas wasn't going to start. So again, I think the count is 21/22 starters playing, and yet we are 0-3.

Something needs to be done. At the end of the season nobody will think the bad start could have been avoided if Carriker, Craw, Thomas, or Robinson were healthy. It's also worth mentioning Barnett, Kehl, and the rookie Fl St OLb that has slipped my mind as better players than Robinson who has high hopes but struggled last year to find the field.

Idk why we aren't tackling but I feel the majority of blame goes to Haslett and Kyle as to we aren't putting guys in roles to be effective to at least be 1-2.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1028302][URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/23/pierre-garcon-rgiii-obviously-isnt-completely-healthy/"]Pierre Garçon: RGIII “obviously” isn’t completely healthy | ProFootballTalk[/URL]

Seems like PG is making excuses for ROB[/quote]

I think he's just getting tired of being asked about it.

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;1028086]I am getting a tat later to remember my aunt who died from breast cancer eariler this year. Might as well go ahead and turn myself in now.[/QUOTE]

Sorry about your aunt - hope the tat is sweet

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=donofriose;1028301]Well the problem with that is if an offensive player slides forward to get more yards should a defender be penalized for hitting them as they are going forward?

For example, if the first down was a yard a way and the QB was trying to dive for the first down and a defender was standing right there how would the defender know if the QB is giving himself up or not.[/quote]

The way the rule is now if you go head first you can be hit. That's the way it should be. Either way I just don't agree with the ground causing a fumble period.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1028286]People keep mentioning the cap as an excuse. Who's to say that the player/players we bring in here can perform? We have free agents right now that aren't performing. How's Cofield and Bowen performing? What about Josh Wilson? I really hope we add a couple pieces but I really don't want to see the 2000 Redskins ever again. Oh.. how's Mike Wallace working out for Miami? Or Mario Williams for Buffalo? If any fan base should know that free agency is not the way to improve a team it's us.[/quote]

On the other hand, how's Peyton Manning fairing? Wes Welker? Reggie Bush? (Before his minor injury) I hear Ahmad Bradshaw had a pretty good game with Indy yesterday. The difference between what you're saying and what others are saying is that the cap penalty kept the 'skins from not only acquiring upgrades where the team needs obvious upgrades, but to have the money to take the cap hit on the players that aren't really working out for the team, but are forced to play since the 'skins had no other options. It isn't about having millions of dollars to sign big name over the hill stars to multi-year multi-million dollar contracts.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=Mattyk;1028309]The way the rule is now if you go head first you can be hit. That's the way it should be. Either way I just don't agree with the ground causing a fumble period.[/quote]

I don't really disagree with the fumble call yesterday - I felt it was a fumble right away. However, I DO think they need to address this rule and make it absolutely clear as to when the ground can cause a fumble and when it can't. I know at one point, the ground could absolutely not cause a fumble, and somewhere down the line that kind of changed. However, I don't think a player diving forward should ever be considered giving himself up. That would open up a huge can of worms.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1028086]I am getting a tat later to remember my aunt who died from breast cancer eariler this year. Might as well go ahead and turn myself in now.[/quote]

We got a girl in my office that swears if you live in a townhouse or a gasp apartment you must be a criminal.

Some peoples minds just as small as a peanut.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=skinsguy;1028311]I don't really disagree with the fumble call yesterday - I felt it was a fumble right away. However, I DO think they need to address this rule and make it absolutely clear as to when the ground can cause a fumble and when it can't. [B]I know at one point, the ground could absolutely not cause a fumble, and somewhere down the line that kind of changed. [/B]However, I don't think a player diving forward should ever be considered giving himself up. That would open up a huge can of worms.[/quote]

In the 45 years that I have played/followed football, it has always been true that if you were not down by contact, the ground [I]could [/I]cause a fumble. It's all about whether someone is down by contact or not.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=firstdown;1028303]I knew the minute the ball came out it was a fumble. Its all on him to know the rules and not blame it on being a stupid rule for not knowing. With us wanting to portect him more and him knowing he needs to slide more he should have known the rule. Maybe take the time to read sliding rules while your between interviews.[/quote]

Relax, he knows the rule, he just doesn't agree with it.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/09/23/chris-rainey-works-out-for-the-chiefs-runs-in-the-low-4-3s/]Chris Rainey works out for the Chiefs, runs in the low 4.3s | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Can we please sign him on the cheap. He can help our KR game and change of pace!

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=Mattyk;1028309]The way the rule is now if you go head first you can be hit. That's the way it should be. Either way I just don't agree with the ground causing a fumble period.[/quote]

He wasn't down by contact. He was sliding head first. If someone had touched him on the way down, no fumble. Lets just say for example he slid head first, and no one touched him and got up and starting running again. Should that have been ruled a touchdown? I would say yes.

He never gave himself up.
He was never ruled down by contact.

I obviously did not have a problem with that ruling because I could have seen that as a bigger problem if they had not ruled it a fumble and ruled him down.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=donofriose;1028316]He wasn't down by contact. He was sliding head first. If someone had touched him on the way down, no fumble. Lets just say for example he slid head first, and no one touched him and got up and starting running again. Should that have been ruled a touchdown? I would say yes.

He never gave himself up.
He was never ruled down by contact.

I obviously did not have a problem with that ruling because I could have seen that as a bigger problem if they had not ruled it a fumble and ruled him down.[/quote]

I understand all that and the call was clearly the right one based on the rule.

I just don't like the rule.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

Griff has done a fantastic jon of getting out of bounds or down

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=skinsguy;1028310]On the other hand, how's Peyton Manning fairing? Wes Welker? Reggie Bush? (Before his minor injury) I hear Ahmad Bradshaw had a pretty good game with Indy yesterday. The difference between what you're saying and what others are saying is that the cap penalty kept the 'skins from not only acquiring upgrades where the team needs obvious upgrades, but to have the money to take the cap hit on the players that aren't really working out for the team, but are forced to play since the 'skins had no other options. It isn't about having millions of dollars to sign big name over the hill stars to multi-year multi-million dollar contracts.[/quote]

Well bringing in a Peyton Manning and having him throw to Welker is not a good example to use. My point was this, the bad has outweighed the good when it's come to free agency. Especially around here. Would you agree with that? We need to sign some guys, I just don't want to see what we saw in 2000 just cause we have cap space.

Redskins Lions postgame
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1028165]The offense shot themselves in the foot a couple of times but the defense has been historically bad.

Given how bad the D has been it's going to be awfully hard for the offense make up for that no matter how well they play.[/QUOTE]

Seems to me they feed off each other. D had some crucial stops in big moments yesterday when the offense was clicking. If the offense faltered the d followed suit though.
I feel like if we could ever play with a lead in the second half that our d would be ok.
Edit: i guess what im saying is our d is bad and the pressure they are always under to keep us in the game because our offense isnt pulling their weight isnt helping

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=Lotus;1028313]In the 45 years that I have played/followed football, it has always been true that if you were not down by contact, the ground [I]could [/I]cause a fumble. It's all about whether someone is down by contact or not.[/quote]


Its always been really simple to me. In the NFL you have to be touched to be down, so if you are in the process of getting tackled and le'ts say your elbow carrying the ball hits the ground causing you to fumble, then the ground caused it. If you slide, you are obviously giving yourself up. If you are diving forward like RG3 did, you are reaching for yardage, then anything can happen and Robert was not touched diving, so he could have rolled futher down the field or anything until he gets actually touched.

Bottom line, the Redskins this year have had huge mental mistakes on the rules. Skip practice one day and study the rules. Niles Paul now plays special teams and only specail teams, but yet he jumped for an onside kick, well before the 10 yards and caught it. If you play special teams, that should be the first rule you learn after, don't block in the back (which they seem to do on every kickoff or punt BTW).

Come guys, you make too much money to make simple mental rules mistakes, all the time.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1028319][B]Well bringing in a Peyton Manning and having him throw to Welker is not a good example to use.[/B] My point was this, the bad has outweighed the good when it's come to free agency. Especially around here. Would you agree with that? We need to sign some guys, I just don't want to see what we saw in 2000 just cause we have cap space.[/quote]

Um, yes, it's a very good example to use, lol!

Let me repeat. The cap penalty did [U]more[/U] than just handicap the 'skins ability to sign free agents.[U] It prevented the 'skins from being able to dump players that would have cost the team a certain amount of cap hit [/U]to dump. Instead, the team has to keep those players and play them. So, the hope is, the players will learn through continuity and improve on their play - how's that working out so far?

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=skinsguy;1028311]I don't really disagree with the fumble call yesterday - I felt it was a fumble right away. However, I DO think they need to address this rule and make it absolutely clear as to when the ground can cause a fumble and when it can't. I know at one point, the ground could absolutely not cause a fumble, and somewhere down the line that kind of changed. However, I don't think a player diving forward should ever be considered giving himself up. That would open up a huge can of worms.[/quote]

The rule has not changed if your getting tackled or sliding feet first your considered down when you hit the ground. There is no grey area. RGIII went down head first and by the rule could have gotten back up and run the ball if not touched. No one would even make this an issue if it was a running back who tripped and when hitting the groung fumbled the ball.

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[quote=Mattyk;1028314]Relax, he knows the rule, he just doesn't agree with it.[/quote]

Doesn't agree because it was his mistake.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

[quote=skinsguy;1028327]Um, yes, it's a very good example to use, lol!

Let me repeat. The cap penalty did [U]more[/U] than just handicap the 'skins ability to sign free agents.[U] [B]It prevented the 'skins from being able to dump players that would have cost the team a certain amount of cap hit [/B][/U][B]to dump. Instead, the team has to keep those players and play them.[/B] So, the hope is, the players will learn through continuity and improve on their play - how's that working out so far?[/quote]

Like who? D. Hall? He's playing for like a million dollars this year. Pretty good rate for a starting corner...and say what you want about D. Hall, but he's our best corner, he played a good game yesterday. Now Josh Wilson is another story...and btw...he was a free agent! How would you grade that signing? Did it pan out? I'd say probably not.

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Funny how people hate to give D.Hall props around here.

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[quote=12thMan;1028340]Funny how people hate to give D.Hall props around here.[/quote]

I know, it's pretty ridiculous. If you go back and actually watch the game when he was in man coverage against Johnson yesterday. He did really well, some of Calvin's bigger catchers were when they lined him in the slot and Josh Wilson ended up covering him.

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He played Calvin about as well you can play that guy. The so so reaction to Hall's performance is duly noted though.

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Hall has been one of the better corners in the NFL up to now. 2 defensive touchdowns already. He has also been pretty consistent in coverage so far.
I've never thought he was worth what the Redskins used to pay him, but right now he is a pretty good value for the 1 or 2 million he is getting paid.

Re: Redskins Lions postgame
 

problem is WILSON, and the safeties