Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

Did Mike Shanahan secretly coach the Broncos last night? They sure played like the 2013 Redskins, maybe Keith Burns coached the ST's.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1058574]I'm not saying he is not, but people act like he's carrying Seattle on his shoulders.[/quote]

I know , and I agree with you , QB's get too much credit and too much blame . I always tell people ( as great as Montana was ) if Elway or Marino had been the qb for SF , and Montana either Denver or Miami's Montana would have been 0-4 in the SB .

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=Defensewins;1058571]I think the main reason I was for Seattle in the Superbowl was all of the talk weeks before the Superbowl of "if Peyton Manning wins this super bowl he will be seen as the greatest QB of all time."
That is stupid. Not to mention how much that jinxed Manning.
I am tired of today's pass happy fans and media that do not understand the only reason all of these passing records are being broken is because of the rule changes created by the NFL in the last 10-20 years to promote passing (ratings), like you can not touch a receiver after 2.5 yards from line of scrimmage and many others to protect the Qb.
Individual stats and records are not big deal when you are throwing the more than any one ever has in the history of the game. Or that your teams is so one dimensional that you lose the big game. Winning Superbowl's trumps all individual stats and records.[/quote]

Exactly !

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1058560]One thing that stuck out was Marshawn Lynch got effing handled by the Broncos' defense. They committed to stopping Lynch and said "Wilson, beat us." And he did. Big game by Wilson, 88.1 QBR, 123 rating. Big on 3rd down. Shoulda had 3 TDs, got 2.[/quote]

But wait. Isn't he just a game manager? :doh:

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1058553]Kinda sad Peyton cant throw the ball deep anymore. Pretty evident last night. They pretty much dared him too with there safeties playing up all night.[/quote]

Peyton had the third highest average yards per pass attempt in the league. I'm sure if he didn't have the Seattle D-line all over him, he could have thrown a couple of deep ones.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1058586]But wait. Isn't he just a game manager? :doh:[/quote]

Exactly, not close.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=budw38;1058583]I know , and I agree with you , QB's get too much credit and too much blame . I always tell people ( as great as Montana was ) if Elway or Marino had been the qb for SF , and Montana either Denver or Miami's Montana would have been 0-4 in the SB .[/quote]


I respectfully because disagree Montana is the man.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1058588]Peyton had the third highest average yards per pass attempt in the league. I'm sure if he didn't have the Seattle D-line all over him, he could have thrown a couple of deep ones.[/quote]

Yeah, Im sure the WR YAC leader D Thomas helped that stat.

Peyton underthrew 2 downfield throws last night. His arm strength certain not close to what it use to be.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

Calling him a game manager probably isn't fair, but fact is they don't ask him to do a ton because of their strong running game and D. It's obviously a smart way to go given the results.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1058592]Yeah, Im sure the WR YAC leader D Thomas helped that stat.

Peyton underthrew 2 downfield throws last night. His arm strength certain not close to what it use to be.[/quote]

It is not, but when you have one of the greatest performance by a defensive line on an elite QB, which for some reason you keep undermining, it is a bit ridiculous to say that it was all because of his arm strength.

Seattle's plan wasn't to "dare him" to throw it deep, it was to disrupt Manning's passing attack. And it they did it in an almost flawless manner.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1058512]I refuse to give carroll credit. He won a division championship with parcells team before he let that team go to shit. He cheated at usc and jumped ship. And now because of his stadiium gets homefield advantage thruout the playoffs. Sanfran would have beat them at home. I think the denver broncos along with the entire afc would have been outclassed by a handful of nfc teams tonite. I give full credit to the seattle gm for bringing in these players. But most importantly i cannot stand him. Lol thats my take and im sticking to it.[/quote]


With your Anti Carroll attitude you belong on the 49er Webzone where I am slowly phasing myself out. I don't know what you know about college athletics but the football program is usually the bread winner that supports a lot of the other sport programs. Alumini and fans support winners a lot more than losers, so usually it is a win at all cost mentality. All the top university officials know what goes on and so does the athletic director. Pretty sure unless you are at Yale where most all the parents are wealthy cheating goes on.

I was on a D3 team over 30 years ago where players were paid and clothed. It wasn't a lot but it was more than you could make on a full time minimum wage job, and there were frat type houses where you could live and eat for free on top of that. Pretty sure nothing has changed I bet 95% or more
of the football programs cheat, some just get caught more than others.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

I think it's time for people to give Wilson the respect he deserves. Yeah, he plays on a great team, but he's a BIG reason why they're a great team. Who are his wr's? Who's his TE? He's not playing with Calvin Johnson or Jimmy Graham. He makes plays, extends them, runs when he has to and just gets the damn job done, all while staying very humble. Very hard not to like Russell Wilson.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1058594]It is not, but when you have one of the greatest performance by a defensive line on an elite QB, which for some reason you keep undermining, it is a bit ridiculous to say that it was all because of his arm strength.

Seattle's plan wasn't to "dare him" to throw it deep, it was to disrupt Manning's passing attack. And it they did it in an almost flawless manner.[/quote]

Not undermining anything. DLine played great, but Peyton had opportunities he certainly couldnt cash in on. The deep throw to Thomas? first half when he had a step on E Thomas, Peyton makes that throw before surgury. If you go back and watch the New England game, Peyton dinked and dunked down the field.

Safties (lol) were up most the game and they even let Kam play centerfield sometimes. Kam isnt the best cover safety.

But your correct disrupt the passing attack was surely the primary plan with pressure, but it also centered around the short passing attack and allowing zero yards after catch.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/03/doug-baldwin-to-cris-carter-your-analytical-skills-arent-up-to-par-yet/]Doug Baldwin to Cris Carter: Your analytical skills aren’t up to par yet | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Chris Carter looking like a chump...again

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1058570]Yeah I dont know. I think Wilson has proven in the past if he needed to be clutch and bring a team back from being down, he could have. Thought he played outstanding on a big stage.

One thing telling is the coaching staff wasnt conservative even with a lead. They continued to put the ball in Wilson hand to make plays running and throwing.

[B]A "game manager" is a term used when a coaching staff doesnt have trust or full confidence in their QB to win games.[/B] If you watch Seattle, you never get that sense at anytime, in any game situation with Wilson.[/quote]

A game manager is when the QB is not asked to carry his team but is just asked to not lose the game for the team with interceptions or other stupid mistakes. Which is pretty much what the Seahawks ask of Wilson. He had 94 yards passing when the score was 29-0. With 16 of those 29 points coming from the defense or special teams.

Im not here to criticize Russell Wilson, because his team doesnt ask him to win games for them. He is doing what his coaches ask of him. And Russell, being as smart as he is, knows he doesnt have to score every drive for that team to win so he doesnt press it.

When your defense and special teams outscore the number 1 offense in a game, then just about any decent QB would win that game. Is the country calling him a great QB if he played on a team with a bad defense?

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=Defensewins;1058571]I think the main reason I was for Seattle in the Superbowl was all of the talk weeks before the Superbowl of "if Peyton Manning wins this super bowl he will be seen as the greatest QB of all time."
That is stupid. Not to mention how much that jinxed Manning.
I am tired of today's pass happy fans and media that do not understand the only reason all of these passing records are being broken is because of the rule changes created by the NFL in the last 10-20 years to promote passing (ratings), like you can not touch a receiver after 2.5 yards from line of scrimmage and many others to protect the Qb.
Individual stats and records are not big deal when you are throwing the more than any one ever has in the history of the game. Or that your teams is so one dimensional that you lose the big game. Winning Superbowl's trumps all individual stats and records.[/quote]

10-20, more like 35 years or so. It was the 1978 season where they made the head slap illegal. I remember the specific time because I was playing High School ball and most those type rules followed the pros. They also changed the way they called holding and illegal use of hands. 1977 and before a defender could hit a blocker in the head while the blocker had to keep his hands close to his jersey. Most O-lineman were coached to grab their own jersey while blocking to prevent being flagged. Also starting in 1978 you were only allowed to contact a receiver once, but still you could knock him down anywhere on the field as long as the ball wasn't in the air.

Do to these evolving rule changes favoring the offense you can only compare quarterbacks against their peers that played in the exact same time period. Quarterbacks were not protected if they stayed in the pocket back when Sonny Jurgensen played, roughing the passer was rarely called and you could hit them in the head, clothesline them and horse collar them. A 37 year old immobile Peyton Manning would have been watching the Super Bowl from a hospital bed or a wheelchair if the 2013 season was played under rules of the "dead ball" era. He probably would not have lasted 4 games.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1058593]Calling him a game manager probably isn't fair, but fact is they don't ask him to do a ton because of their strong running game and D. It's obviously a smart way to go given the results.[/quote]

I think that the biggest reason for the Broncos performance last night is that they just dont see those kinds of teams in the AFC. The top AFC teams have traditional pocket passers on O and IMO they didnt see a D as tough and fast as Seat all season. It really showed last night.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=irish;1058607]I think that the biggest reason for the Broncos performance last night is that they just dont see those kinds of teams in the AFC. The top AFC teams have traditional pocket passers on O and IMO they didnt see a D as tough and fast as Seat all season. It really showed last night.[/quote]

If you look at a lot of defensive statistics, the majority of the top 10 teams were NFC teams. I think the NFC field stronger defenses than the AFC this season.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=Skinzman;1058604]A game manager is when the QB is not asked to carry his team but is just asked to not lose the game for the team with interceptions or other stupid mistakes. Which is pretty much what the Seahawks ask of Wilson. He had 94 yards passing when the score was 29-0. With 16 of those 29 points coming from the defense or special teams.

Im not here to criticize Russell Wilson, because his team doesnt ask him to win games for them. He is doing what his coaches ask of him. And Russell, being as smart as he is, knows he doesnt have to score every drive for that team to win so he doesnt press it.

When your defense and special teams outscore the number 1 offense in a game, then just about any decent QB would win that game. Is the country calling him a great QB if he played on a team with a bad defense?[/quote]

8 4th Quarter comebacks, 10 game winning drives

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=WilsRu00]Russell Wilson's Career 4th quarter comebacks and game-winning drives - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]


2 years in the league, Superbowl winning QB

I actually think he would be considered a much better QB if not over shadowed by such a great defense.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1058591]I respectfully because disagree Montana is the man.[/quote]

JM one of the all time greats , but he was 0-3 vs NY in postseason , 85-90 . In those three games , SF score 1 td . Montana had HOF's around him , Rice , Clark , R. Craig and Coach Walsh . Denver and Miami had no running game and weak Defenses . I do agree with you , Joey T is the man ...... or Joe Cool .

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1058610]8 4th Quarter comebacks, 10 game winning drives

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=WilsRu00]Russell Wilson's Career 4th quarter comebacks and game-winning drives - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]


2 years in the league, Superbowl winning QB

I actually think he would be considered a much better QB if not over shadowed by such a great defense.[/quote]

This is an interesting article about the 2012 QB draft. Wilson"s projections blow every QB in that draft away but because of changes in the program he played in they didnt really trust the calculation. It appears that the calculation wasnt too far off.

[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/nfl-draft/2012/lewin-career-forecast-2012]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Lewin Career Forecast 2012[/url]

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1058610]8 4th Quarter comebacks, 10 game winning drives

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=WilsRu00]Russell Wilson's Career 4th quarter comebacks and game-winning drives - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]


2 years in the league, Superbowl winning QB

I actually think he would be considered a much better QB if not over shadowed by such a great defense.[/quote]

Of those 8 4th quarter comebacks, in 2 of those games he had 0 TD passes for the game (one of which he had 123 total passing yards with an int and a completion % under 50%), and in 1, he threw an int in the end zone that was called a TD by replacement refs.

Take away that defense, and I dont believe that he is a SB winning QB.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1058605]10-20, more like 35 years or so. It was the 1978 season where they made the head slap illegal. I remember the specific time because I was playing High School ball and most those type rules followed the pros. They also changed the way they called holding and illegal use of hands. 1977 and before a defender could hit a blocker in the head while the blocker had to keep his hands close to his jersey. Most O-lineman were coached to grab their own jersey while blocking to prevent being flagged. Also starting in 1978 you were only allowed to contact a receiver once, but still you could knock him down anywhere on the field as long as the ball wasn't in the air.

[B]Do to these evolving rule changes favoring the offense you can only compare quarterbacks against their peers that played in the exact same time period. [/B]Quarterbacks were not protected if they stayed in the pocket back when Sonny Jurgensen played, roughing the passer was rarely called and you could hit them in the head, clothesline them and horse collar them. A 37 year old immobile Peyton Manning would have been watching the Super Bowl from a hospital bed or a wheelchair if the 2013 season was played under rules of the "dead ball" era. He probably would not have lasted 4 games.[/quote]

Today's young fans and media don't get it. They throw around "greatest of all time" and they do not understand how much the rule changes favored today's QB's and receivers. It is not the same game. Not even close.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=irish;1058612]This is an interesting article about the 2012 QB draft. Wilson"s projections blow every QB in that draft away but because of changes in the program he played in they didnt really trust the calculation. It appears that the calculation wasnt too far off.

[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/nfl-draft/2012/lewin-career-forecast-2012]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Lewin Career Forecast 2012[/url][/quote]

Nice link. I like the 3rd to last comment(145) in reference to the last sentence of the Wilson blurp: "moot indeed....moot indeed."

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=Defensewins;1058615]Today's young fans and media don't get it. They throw around "greatest of all time" and they do not understand how much the rule changes favored today's QB's and receivers. It is not the same game. Not even close.[/quote]

I don't understand why the older guys in the media especially ex-players don't explain how the changes effected the game. Every other Redskin game I am working in my shop listening to the radio broadcast that Sonny Jurgensen is on. The only reference he makes to his playing days is when Griffin rips off a nice run he says "Just like I use to" (Sarcastically of course).

Believe it or not on the 49er Webzone where I came from the young guys actually think the QBs of days gone by were terrible and that "modern science" and evolution (Laughable, noticeable evolution in 40 years?) are the reason that 10 guys a year pass for more than 4,000 yards.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1058618]I don't understand why the older guys in the media especially ex-players don't explain how the changes effected the game. Every other Redskin game I am working in my shop listening to the radio broadcast that Sonny Jurgensen is on. The only reference he makes to his playing days is when Griffin rips off a nice run he says "Just like I use to" (Sarcastically of course).

Believe it or not on the 49er Webzone where I came from [B][U]the young guys actually think the QBs of days gone by were terrible and that "modern science" and evolution (Laughable, noticeable evolution in 40 years?) are the reason that 10 guys a year pass for more than 4,000 yards.[/U][/B][/quote]

You hit a home run with that statement. I could not agree more.

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1058534]Sour grapes.

Carroll is heavily involved in personnel. He hired the GM there and has total control.[/QUOTE]


Total sour grapes, but i didnt like him before they won last nite. I didnt like him at usc.

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1058533]I don't get how anyone can't like Pete Carroll. The guy is 62 years old, has the energy of a 30 year old, he sets the tone with competition, let's his players be themselves and obviously can coach. Is there anyone else who's won a national championship and a Super Bowl?[/QUOTE]


Captain Kangaroo was old and full of energy too and i didnt like him either.
Seriously Its nothing personal, obviously i dont know the guy - but something about him has always just rubbed me the wrong way.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1058533]I don't get how anyone can't like Pete Carroll. The guy is 62 years old, has the energy of a 30 year old, he sets the tone with competition, let's his players be themselves and obviously can coach. Is there anyone else who's won a national championship and a Super Bowl?[/quote]

Didn't Jimmy Johnson?

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1058627]Didn't Jimmy Johnson?[/quote]

Don't forget Barry Switzer too. Although given the team we root for, it's easy to see why most people here would forget.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1058628]Don't forget Barry Switzer too. Although given the team we root for, it's easy to see why most people here would forget.[/quote]

To me that doesn't count because Switzer won it with Jimmy Johnson's Dallas team.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/UkySGFH.jpg[/IMG]


Ouch.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

Being in my 50's and playing football in High School and College on top of watching the game on TV since I was 5, plus reading numerous books about football players when I was a kid, I am pretty attuned to how the rules have effected the game. As far as "modern training methods" that era started 40 years ago. Take a picture of a 1975 weight room and then one from 2014, you will see a lot of the exact same equipment. Some of them might have computerized resistance but that just makes them safer, they are the same movements as the machines that had cables, chains and weight stacks. Free weights are the same. Joe Weider's promotion of body building made nutritional supplements and steroids common place in the 70's.

You really have to go all the way back into the early 60's to find guys just eating meat and potatoes and not lifting weights. The first weightlifting program with illegal drugs were introduced in 1963 by Chargers coach Sid Gillman.

Training methods are still pretty much the same, the only improvement is probably the illegal drugs are better. That is a wash as an equal amount of players on both sides of the ball are using them, it is the rules being the sole reason why we don't see anymore 13-10 games.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1058627]Didn't Jimmy Johnson?[/quote]

True...Jimmy did it as well as Switzer. Although Switzer was really there for the ride along.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/video/peyton-manning-feel-39-embarrassed-043600114.html]Y! SPORTS[/url]


Good video of Kurt Warner talking about Peyton and the job Seattle did with him.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[url=http://nfl.si.com/2014/02/03/malcolm-smiths-mvp-press-conference-interrupted-by-911-truther/?eref=sihp]Malcolm Smith's MVP press conference interrupted by 9/11 'truther' | Audibles - SI.com[/url]

Great job by NFL security. Hopped on a bus and made it all the way to tv.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

I do not believe that the game was fixed. But with all of their unforced errors the Broncos sure made it look that way. Pretty pathetic.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[img]http://i.minus.com/ibwuDOvNbn7i3z.gif[/img]

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/uzzen0M.png[/IMG]

Rough night for Denver folks. So bad they had to turn to porn before the end of the game. Lame.

Re: The Super Bowl Thread
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1058660][IMG]http://i.minus.com/ibwuDOvNbn7i3z.gif[/IMG][/quote]



Still have three between the 2 of them ,not bad .