Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[QUOTE=30gut;1119264]I agree that Scott has evaluated Griffin in this current system, in J's system. But, Scott has also witnessed one of his QBs struggle in one system, yet flourish in other. Who knows? *shrugs* all the leaks point to Griffin being gone. But, for me I can see a reason to keep him around.

You're probably right that if Kirk doesn't succeed its back to the drawing board.....again. I really, really don't want to be there again. That's why I think J missed a real opportunity to buy himself time by drafting a QB this year. At least if these QBs fail he could look to a rook instead of Colt McCoy (who I like btw) as the QB of the future. That way there would at least be a reason not to dump him. But there is no way he fails with these QBs and gets to choose another, like you said it will be another HC. I would rather start again with Griffin then any of the prospects coming out next year. If you look at raw talent you aren't gonna get any better then Griff.[/QUOTE]
But the logic makes no sense to me. SM came in. He had HC1 and QB1 QB2 QB3. He had a weak oline and a weak dline. SM came in and used the draft to strengthen the team overall and said (to himself most likely) lets see who I keep. If this season hc1 fails he is bringing in a new hc and that new hc will get a chance to pick his qb in the draft to develop, unless of course the hc says he wants to keep any of the 3 qbs. And no hc prospect is going to keep a qb that comes with 4 seasons of QB1s drama.

Sent from my S6 Edge

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Even if III improves significantly, he is one hit away from being a $16M liability ..
I hope I am wrong, but what team would want him with his contract ?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=v8-7;1119272]Even if III improves significantly, he is one hit away from being a $16M liability ..
I hope I am wrong, but what team would want him with his contract ?[/quote]

I think at this point RG3 knows there is zero chance of him getting that 16M next year, unless he gets hurt this year. Whether he gets cut or traded, he will be working on a new contract one way or the other. It does give him a little say in where he goes in a trade though.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=v8-7;1119272]Even if III improves significantly, he is one hit away from being a $16M liability ..
I hope I am wrong, but what team would want him with his contract ?[/quote]

well in the trade scenario, you have to assume he'd rework that with the new team since he wouldn't have a future here. no sane team is going to take him with that liability still intact.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

This was tweeted then deleted:

@CHICKatCSN: Sometimes "sources" are wrong, sometimes they aren't "sources", just guesses & hoping you're right. #badjournalism101 #homeydontplaythat

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=kingj;1119283]This was tweeted then deleted:

@CHICKatCSN: Sometimes "sources" are wrong, sometimes they aren't "sources", just guesses & hoping you're right. #badjournalism101 #homeydontplaythat[/quote]

It's right on his timeline plus the subsequent conversation explaining that to people who misinterpreted. Wasn't deleted

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1118548]I see some Hall of Famers on that INT list, as well as future Hall of Famers. Yet this fanbase freaks out when a 4th rounder with less than 10 starts throws picks. Amazing.

[B]KC is going to need a running game.[/B] We can't have him dropping back 45 times and expect to not have turnovers. Hopefully we can stay balanced.[/quote]

I couldn't agree more. I believe a lack of a running game was the source of a lot of KC problems. If I'm not mistaken AM average like 40 yards per game when Kirk was the starter last year. I believe with a good running game Kirk can be a very good qb. He just needs the organization and the coaches to be patient.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;1119286]It's right on his timeline plus the subsequent conversation explaining that to people who misinterpreted. Wasn't deleted[/QUOTE]


Ok thanks, I wanted to retweet and it kept saying tweet no longer available. Guess just a glitch.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1119264]That's why I think J missed a real opportunity to buy himself time by drafting a QB this year.[/quote]

How do you know it was Gruden's decision?

Everything I've read indicates McLovin was making the picks with input (only he knows how much) from coaches.

BTW, I'm completely fine with that. Coaches coach and GMs draft.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1119292]How do you know it was Gruden's decision?

Everything I've read indicates McLovin was making the picks with input (only he knows how much) from coaches.

BTW, I'm completely fine with that. Coaches coach and GMs draft.[/quote]J is the person that stands (stood) to benefit by drafting a QB this year. I don't know if it was J's decision or Scott's and I didn't intend to make my argument based on who made the decision. And like you said Scott had input from the coaches. My point was that IF a QB had been selected it would offer a reason to keep Jay IF the current QBs fail. And as it stands now I would bet that if J fails with Kirk an inseason or certainly an end of the season firing is on the table. And if say there was a light at the end of the tunnel provided by a developmental QB then Jay would have a greater chance of returning IF the QBs fail

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1119293]J is the person that stands (stood) to benefit by drafting a QB this year. I don't know if it was J's decision or Scott's and I didn't intend to make my argument based on who made the decision. And like you said Scott had input from the coaches. My point was that IF a QB had been selected it would offer a reason to keep Jay IF the current QBs fail. And as it stands now I would bet that if J fails with Kirk an inseason or certainly an end of the season firing is on the table. And if say there was a light at the end of the tunnel provided by a developmental QB then Jay would have a greater chance of returning IF the QBs fail[/quote]

I think that's quite a stretch. Jay has pissed off Dan Snyder enough that if he doesn't win this season no developmental QB could have saved him. Also, Scot might jump at the chance to hire his own man.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Man, when is this rg3 trade gonna get done? Gettin late

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Chico23231;1119297]Man, when is this rg3 trade gonna get done? Gettin late[/quote]


Nothing is going to happen until he's cleared to play. Even then, you'll have to get RG3 to agree to change that option year, so my guess it's more likely he'll be cut. I do hope we can get a draft pick for him though.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

We know that McLoughan has say over player personnel, but has anybody ever heard Allen or Snyder say that he has control over coaching decisions? Serious question because I don't think he does. I think he and Gruden are peers in the reporting hierarchy, both reporting to Allen.

Allen might ask McLoughan what he thinks but I am pretty sure Allen retains the decision making on the head coach.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Not sure I believe everything said by Gruden, I think some of it is 'towing the company line'...

[URL]http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13597397/jay-gruden-washington-redskins-keeping-robert-griffin-iii-one-our-top-53[/URL]

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

I'd rather Gruden tow the company line than be so blatantly straightforward it causes national news and is quoted for years to come. Really really want boring media coverage for the team, when we have no news to read every day we'll have finally become a legit franchise.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1119270]But the logic makes no sense to me.[/quote]Which part?

[quote]...If this season hc1 fails he is bringing in a new hc and that new hc will get a chance to pick his qb in the draft to develop, unless of course the hc says he wants to keep any of the 3 qbs. And no hc prospect is going to keep a qb that comes with 4 seasons of QB1s drama.[/quote]IF J fails with Kirk and Griffin isn't traded away the new HC could decide to keep Griffin and also draft their QB of the future. A similar scenario happened with 49ers w/ Alex Smith. They hired Harbaugh who kept Smith. He developed Smith,who had failed to develop/produce with the previous HCs, into a solid starting QB to the point where they had winning season and were able to trade him for value. During that same period that HC drafted and developed his QB of the future in Kaep.

The best thing for the franchise right now is for J and Kirk to succeed. But if they succeed having a Harbaugh-Alex Smith type of situaion is imo the next best outcome. Pat Shurmur, Darrell Bevel or Tom Clememnts might decide to develop Griffin while also drafting 'their' QB of the future.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Schneed10;1119300]We know that McLoughan has say over player personnel, but has anybody ever heard Allen or Snyder say that he has control over coaching decisions? Serious question because I don't think he does. I think he and Gruden are peers in the reporting hierarchy, both reporting to Allen.

Allen might ask McLoughan what he thinks but I am pretty sure Allen retains the decision making on the head coach.[/quote]

I asked a few people this, and they all told me Scot's decision

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

I guess really RG3 will not be gone from the team until Snyder tells them to do it. It could be the type of situation where RG3 gets another chance with the new coach, is benched, new coach gets fired, then replacement coach gives him another chance, he is benched, etc... rinse and repeat

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1119309]I asked a few people this, and they all told me Scot's decision[/quote]
Cool...

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

I hope/think SM is simply evaluating any and all trade options. Doing due diligence so he can present a plan to DS that clearly shows what other teams would give up for Griffin.
As SM has said he's working on changing the culture at redskins park. And that must include DS' role in team ops. Its fine and expected for an owner to hear the options and plans but he should let the people he's hired get the work done...

Sent from my S6 Edge

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1119316]I guess really RG3 will not be gone from the team until Snyder tells them to do it. It could be the type of situation where RG3 gets another chance with the new coach, is benched, new coach gets fired, then replacement coach gives him another chance, he is benched, etc... rinse and repeat[/quote]

Just about everyone I've spoken to still expects him to be traded once he's cleared from his concussion.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1119309]I asked a few people this, and they all told me Scot's decision[/quote]

Ok thanks good to know. I remember Allen saying total control over player personnel and never really saying anything about coaches, so I was left to wonder. Nice to know from someone in the know, thanks Smoot.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Of course, the reality of business being what it is, it would be very hard to see McLoughan making a move like firing a coach with three guaranteed years left on his contract without getting clearance from the owner first. Unless Dan is suddenly keen on eating $15 million, I think the organization will stick with Jay through at very least three years, and most likely four.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;1119319]Just about everyone I've spoken to still expects him to be traded once he's cleared from his concussion.[/QUOTE]
Any word on the concussion testing. Is there any worries in the building that he still isn't cleared.

Sent from my S6 Edge

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1119318]I hope/think SM is simply evaluating any and all trade options. Doing due diligence so he can present a plan to DS that clearly shows what other teams would give up for Griffin.
As SM has said he's working on changing the culture at redskins park. And that must include DS' role in team ops. Its fine and expected for an owner to hear the options and plans but he should let the people he's hired get the work done...

Sent from my S6 Edge[/quote]

I'm sure McC is doing his job.

The only way to move this franchise forward is getting rid of rg3 asap. McC has gotten a taste of just how bad it is with rg3 around...negative locker room presence, best qb comment, and the consistent social media eff ups. And this biggest issue, his inability to be a pocket passer.

Glad folks are coming around on these facts

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1119322]Any word on the concussion testing. Is there any worries in the building that he still isn't cleared.

Sent from my S6 Edge[/quote]

Yeah, what he said, I thought he was supposed to be re-evaluated Friday but we have yet to hear if he is cleared or not. Could this be because they are working on some kind of trade?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

well, the test may not happen till later this week, i haven't heard whether it actually happened or not, just that it may have.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1119319]Just about everyone I've spoken to still expects him to be traded once he's cleared from his concussion.[/quote]That's odd since the team, coach included, seems to be going hard the other way saying Griffin will be on the team.

Does everyone mean people within the organization or everyone mean people in general?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

posturing....
trying to get better trade value.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

At least when the game starts off bad Kirk makes adjustments to avoid the pressure and get rid of the ball quickly---something Robert failed to do!!!! GOOD LUCK CAPTAIN KIRK---MAY YOU BEAM US UP MANY WINS! :httr:

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Chico23231;1119269]We all agree it's been determined rg3 is not the future, so there is no way we ever want him to see the field bc of the risk of 16 mil injury possibility.

We all agree we don't rg3 to sabotage 16 million of cap space?[/quote]It seems many fans along with J are of the mindset you express above.

The flip side, which I'm sure is hard for you to see, is that while Griff isn't a fit for J that doesn't mean he's not a fit in another offense. And IF that is true then it would be a mistake to get rid of Griffin IF J (the reason Griff is gone) fails.

By keeping Griffin the team hedges against a J-Kirk failure.

The 5th year option is still an issue but outside of the money (which can be massaged) getting rid of Griff doesn't bring any gain on the football field.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1119343]It seems many fans along with J are of the mindset you express above.

The flip side, which I'm sure is hard for you to see, is that while Griff isn't a fit for J that doesn't mean he's not a fit in another offense. And IF that is true then it would be a mistake to get rid of Griffin IF J (the reason Griff is gone) fails.

By keeping Griffin the team hedges against a J-Kirk failure.

[B]The 5th year option is still an issue but outside of the money (which can be massaged) getting rid of Griff doesn't bring any gain on the football field.[/B][/quote]

But getting rid of Griff would keep Cousins from looking over his shoulder and remove a message that perhaps the organization lacks confidence in Kirk?

BTW does anyone else think the reason they kept Griffin is that they think that Jerrah Jones might pick Griff up if he was cut....sounds like a Jerry Jones move and Jones would enjoy sticking it to Snyder if he somehow managed to turn RGIII into a good QB!!! And after all who do the Cowboys have as a backup and successor to Romo---Weeden certainly is not their answer! Just a thought!

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=JGR81;1119344]But getting rid of Griff would keep Cousins from looking over his shoulder and remove a message that perhaps the organization lacks confidence in Kirk?

BTW does anyone else think the reason they kept Griffin is that they think that Jerrah Jones might pick Griff up if he was cut....sounds like a Jerry Jones move and Jones would enjoy sticking it to Snyder if he somehow managed to turn RGIII into a good QB!!! And after all who do the Cowboys have as a backup and successor to Romo---Weedon certainly is not there answer! Just a thought![/quote]

If you cant handle having a backup QB behind you that might possibly push you, then you cannot handle being a QB in the NFL. If Kirk is worried about RG3, then the Kirk experiment is already a failure. This was the same thing that was said about RG3 when they drafted Kirk.

As for Jerry Jones, him and DS get along fairly well. I dont see Jerry taking RG3 as a way to screw with DS. If he picks him up, it will be because he thinks he still has something left. To me, the main one to worry about is the Eagles if we are going strictly on NFC east teams.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[QUOTE=JGR81;1119344]But getting rid of Griff would keep Cousins from looking over his shoulder and remove a message that perhaps the organization lacks confidence in Kirk?[/QUOTE]

And that is what I am worried about...that there will be enormous pressure on Kirk to try to be perfect in every game. Also as soon as Kirk has a bad game, Dan Snyder will be pushing for RG3 to take over as the starter.


[QUOTE=JGR81;1119344]BTW does anyone else think the reason they kept Griffin is that they think that Jerrah Jones might pick Griff up if he was cut....sounds like a Jerry Jones move and Jones would enjoy sticking it to Snyder if he somehow managed to turn RGIII into a good QB!!! And after all who do the Cowboys have as a backup and successor to Romo---Weedon certainly is not there answer! Just a thought![/QUOTE]

That may actually be a possibility...and I agree that it would just be like Jerry Jones to sign RG3, just to piss off Dan Snyder.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=kct1975;1119347]And that is what I am worried about...that there will be enormous pressure on Kirk to try to be perfect in every game. Also as soon as Kirk has a bad game, Dan Snyder will be pushing for RG3 to take over as the starter.




That may actually be a possibility...and I agree that it would just be like Jerry Jones to sign RG3, just to piss off Dan Snyder.[/quote]

Plus, Jerrah likes the razzle dazzle and don't forget he wanted Johnny Manziel but cooler heads prevailed and Stephen Jones won out and the Cowboys ended up with a much needed OL instead....but still Jerry likes the flash and dash plays and would love the attention if he managed to turn Griffin around....

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1118537]My wife works here. (Cousins video)
:joecool:

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5FVEZ5jR-I[/url][/quote]

Thanks for sharing!

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

If we.cut.him I'd worry more about philly picking him up... It's a fast, quick read and throw offense in which I think he'd flourish in... And we don't want to face that two times a year

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[QUOTE=Meks;1119355]If we.cut.him I'd worry more about philly picking him up... It's a fast, quick read and throw offense in which I think he'd flourish in... And we don't want to face that two times a year[/QUOTE]


Been saying this since training camp started, chip Kelly is lurking and waiting. This is his dream qb prototype.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1119343]It seems many fans along with J are of the mindset you express above.

The flip side, which I'm sure is hard for you to see, is that while Griff isn't a fit for J that doesn't mean he's not a fit in another offense. And IF that is true then it would be a mistake to get rid of Griffin IF J (the reason Griff is gone) fails.

By keeping Griffin the team hedges against a J-Kirk failure.

The 5th year option is still an issut outside of the money (which can be massaged) getting rid of Griff doesn't bring any gain on the football field.[/quote]

What NFL offense can he run at this point? If you're in your 4th year and and you're still struggling with adjusting protections and can't consistently play from the pocket then it doesn't matter what system is ran. Then factor in the injury history. Griffin is mostly likely done in the NFL within 1 or 2 years.

He should not sniff the field here and the Redskins were stupid fools to pick up that option.