Commanders Post at The Warpath

Commanders Post at The Warpath (http://www.thewarpath.net/forum.php)

- Debating with the enemy (http://www.thewarpath.net/forumdisplay.php?f=75)

- - Obama Care (http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?t=30288)

[quote=JoeRedskin;564576]^^ Saden stepped into the "assholier than thou" role many threads ago.[/quote]

I always had one foot in the door but it took a big push from many folks on this site to get me over the line. So many people to thank so little time. Thank you all for all the love and support.

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;564504]Obviously if someone wants to spend $$$ on a treatment that is expensive and won't work no insurer private or gov't will cover it. And yes, the CER concept is used in private healthcare, but not to deny coverage of normal procedures. If a procedure isn't covered "in-network" on a plan there is the option of going "out-of-network" to get the procedure but with less of a percentage covered. CER boards are used in many countries with socialized medicine to deny certain treatments or to deny treatment to individuals based on age or other factors. I don't want a gov't bureacrat between me and my doctor or other medical professional. When I'm a bit older, I don't want some GS-9 deciding whether I'm able to get an MRI, or heart valve replacement, or other treatment in a timely manner. I just had my gall bladder taken out, not a big deal but over $30K without insurance, cost me about $ 2K. Whenever I ate anything I was in severe pain for 3-4 hours. If I had to wait for this surgery for two weeks or 1 month, that would've been absurd.

Once a government run insurance program is in place with less benefits and no profit motive, it will drive the costs of private insurance up to be unaffordable or will bring service levels way down. Let's say a family of four with both parents working is bringing in $ 80K / yr. They go with the gov't program as the private insurance will likely go to over $ 1K per month. Their child needs a procedure, recommended by their doctor, which the government will not authorize because it doesn't meet the recommendations of the CER board. The procedure costs $ 40K....yeah I've got a problem with that. When currently that same family is paying about $ 300-500 per month for much better and timely coverage that will allow that procedure.

Again, our health care system isn't perfect, but it's the best in the world. Why do people come here from countries with socialized medicine to get procedures done? We need to fix some things but not put another massive government program in place. If you want to provide vouchers or tax credits for low income families that can't afford health insurance that can be discussed, but the Kennedy/Wrangle/Obama vision is flat out wrong and will be extremely destructive to our healthcare system and the federal budget.

EDIT: As a small business owner, if I'm forced to provide health care benefits to my employees (or pay a fine), who will wind up paying for it. My customers will, I'll have to raise prices. That could actually result in a reduction in monthly revenue if people don't want to pay higher prices and force me into the red. Or, I'll have to cut my staff down to an absolute minimum, that will be at least 2-3 jobs lost. Obama can count those in his jobs saved/created numbers. We're a small family owned restaurant, under 20 employees. Other restaurants like mine will be in the same position, some will close and you'll have more of the chain restaurants to visit (oh joy). But Obama is supposed to be for the little guys right?[/quote]

Very good post. Admittedly, I'm not very well versed on health care, but your case study helps shed some light for me. I'm fortunate enough to be in perfect health, and I have no problem paying my $160/month premium to Blue Cross/Blue Sheild. It's easy for a 30 year old non-smoker with no history of health issues to find great coverage at an affordable price. I don't have kids yet, and aside from the occasional physical, I have had no reason to visit a doctor pretty much ever.

Of all the major issues, domestic and international, I would say health care is the one I have given the least amount of attention. That's going to change.

[quote=saden1;564545]You need to go further up the conversation chain and look at your statement.[/quote]
Once again a liberal makes a statement then refuses to answer the question.

I'm sorry but had some friends come over last night to finish off a project and missed the Obama Care speech but I did hear a few things from his speech on the news this morning. Did I hear it wrong or did he really say that old people should just take some pain pills and die? Man, my grandmother had open heart surgery at 82 and lived a healthy life in her own place until the ripe old age of 98 but I guess under Obama care they could have knocked her off at around age 83 to save a few bucks.

[quote=firstdown;564606]Once again a liberal makes a statement then refuses to answer the question.[/quote]

I don't know that you can lay that solely at liberals feet, although Saden is a master of it. The internet really does encourage a mentality of just ignoring what you don't want to deal with, and cherry picking points.

[quote=firstdown;564607]I'm sorry but had some friends come over last night to finish off a project and missed the Obama Care speech but I did hear a few things from his speech on the news this morning. Did I hear it wrong or did he really say that old people should just take some pain pills and die? Man, my grandmother had open heart surgery at 82 and lived a healthy life in her own place until the ripe old age of 98 but I guess under Obama care they could have knocked her off at around age 83 to save a few bucks.[/quote]

I guess that's how you interpreted it

[url=http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/HealthCare/Story?id=7920012&page=1]TRANSCRIPT: 'Questions for the President: Prescription for America' - ABC News[/url]

[quote=CRedskinsRule;564608]I don't know that you can lay that solely at liberals feet, although Saden is a master of it. The internet really does encourage a mentality of just ignoring what you don't want to deal with, and cherry picking points.[/quote]

Unfortunately, the internet also encourages a mentality of ignorant people wanting to make a point at every opportunity, even when they have nothing worthwhile to say.

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;564475]No we do not. Public education is a state/local responsibility (as it should be). Approximately 6% of public school funding comes from the Fed.

If a state wishes to provide free health care for its citizens, by all means go ahead. As long as that state is only taking a minimal percentage of financial support (under 6%) from the Fed to fund this and the program doesn't overlap with programs that already exist (Medicare/Medicaid). Also when the state goes belly up (CA) the Feds don't bail the state out unless the state reduces programs/services and pays the Fed back with interest in under 10 years.

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/parking-lot/30288-obama-care-2.html#post564312[/URL][/quote]

I concur, and that is what I was trying to get at. However I do not think that it should be up to the states to decide. They should have to fund health care just like they have to provide public education. I agree that it shouldn't be overly Federally funded, but it should be Federally mandated.

[quote=SmootSmack;564614]I guess that's how you interpreted it

[URL="http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/HealthCare/Story?id=7920012&page=1"]TRANSCRIPT: 'Questions for the President: Prescription for America' - ABC News[/URL][/quote]
Well after reading the doctors question to Obama I'm still thinking that my grandmother under Obama Care might not have had a choice in having that operation. He danced around the question and I would have done the same thing if I knew my plan would at some point cut off care to the elderly. I do agree that at some point the treatment given to some people is a waist of money but do we now want goverment playing God. Heck, I thought the dems wanted God out of goverment. LOL

[quote=Angry;564617]I concur, and that is what I was trying to get at. However I do not think that it should be up to the states to decide. They should have to fund health care just like they have to provide public education. I agree that it shouldn't be overly Federally funded, but it should be Federally mandated.[/quote]
I think we're definitely on the same wave-length, we would just need to hammer out cost details to get to the best cost/value solution. It's funny how within a few posts reasonable people can come to pretty close agreement on most things......maybe the folks inside 1600 PA Ave. and on the Hill should pay attention to this site LOL.

[quote=saden1;564577]How else I'm I suppose to answer a silly question? You're still the champ man, you still have the biggest in the block...I'm not worthy :headbange

I'll grab a beer with you any time but I don't know about pulling chairs out from under old ladies. I would much rather hit on waitresses and trash TTL.[/quote]

I'm not clear how asking you to clarify the things you post is silly. Can you explain? The less intelligent on this site, like myself clearly, might learn something.

[quote=FRPLG;564621]I'm not clear how asking you to clarify the things you post is silly. Can you explain? The less intelligent on this site, like myself clearly, might learn something.[/quote]

Your postulation is f'ed up therefore your question is silly. Calling someone inexpert does not imply that you're an expert. This shouldn't require explanation. Furthermore, you took an extra step off of a cliff by asking me if I think I'm smarter than everyone else on the site. I answered your question right the first time, even better the second time but you still want to continue your silliness.

I hope you learned something from this exchange.

[quote=firstdown;564606]Once again a liberal makes a statement then refuses to answer the question.[/quote]

Look, you said they're stealing your money via SS and not going to jail. If you can infer that the government is stealing your money I can by the same token infer that the guys running my mutual funds are stealing my money. Lord knows my portfolio is down the shiiter.

[quote=saden1;564577]How else I'm I suppose to answer a silly question? You're still the champ man, you still have the biggest in the block...I'm not worthy :headbange

I'll grab a beer with you any time but I don't know about pulling chairs out from under old ladies. I would much rather hit on waitresses and trash TTL.[/quote]

Trash who? Don't let your fiancee see you flirting with the waitresses. You can try, but you can't make chicken salad out of chicken s**t, and I'm not the only one who sees through your little BS. I could care less, I just got my Dallas at Washington ticket reservations today. :woot:

[quote=saden1;564628]Look, you said they're stealing your money via SS and not going to jail. If you can infer that the government is stealing your money I can by the same token infer that the guys running my mutual funds are stealing my money. Lord knows my portfolio is down the shiiter.[/quote]
The difference is that your portfolio is in the shitter because the investments are down (they will come back) but your money was put into the funds. With SS the money has been diverted to other things beside SS thus the goverment took my money for one thing but spent it on something else. Thus they stole my money.