Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

I see the light, status quo...I see another 60 million dollar loss and possibly the closing of both hospitals next year. Oh wait both hospitals are part of Temple University Health system and Temple University receives public funding! The problem presented isn't Obama's problems, its ours, it will continue to exist and infest and a 5K check isn't going to cut it. It certainly can't fix high drug cost, high practice costs, and lawsuits.

The company I use to work for paid roughly 3 million in health care to Blue Cross Blue Shield and 7 people in the company were responsible for 70% of the medical pay out cost. Needless to say BCBS raised our cost the next year. Point is fixing the health care system is hell of a challenge. A very difficult one at that but I refuse to be so cynical and believe it can't be solved.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=mredskins;471172]I agree!

I think it is funny how everyone is like their speeches were so powerful. When they were speaking to their own party. IF I was talking in front of my family they would probably cheer just as loud. So dumb.

Plus sometimes they go for the cheap easy stand up comendian cheer. Example: "Hey anyone here from St. Paul? Great city!".[/quote]
The reason people think her speach was so good is because two weeks ago she was unknown to most Americans. Then she had to endure all the stuff said about her and her family then go on a National stage and make a record breaking acceptance speach in front of the whole world. Yes, the world does watch our elections.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Schneed10;471192]Ha, profit. That's funny.

[B]Hospitals aren't motivated by profit[/B], they're motivated by trying to break even and keep the doors open.[/quote]
schneed, how much money did your C.E.O/ president make last year?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

we had 3 major hospitals here. one is lancaster general, one of the leaders in the area. they had a 20 million dollar surplus last year. and their president made roughly 2 million in salary.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=NM Redskin;471121]I thought her speech was poor. I was hoping for a fresh perspective and her addressing her lack of experience. She was like a republican robot, politics as usual.[/quote]
What speech did you listen to over half was addressing her experience and what she has done. I also notice the ones saying it was not a good speech all use the word "robot" like your reading the same dem hand book on key words to use. Talk about robot's.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=firstdown;471201]The reason people think her speach was so good is because two weeks ago she was unknown to most Americans. Then she had to endure all the stuff said about her and her family then go on a National stage and make a record breaking acceptance speach in front of the whole world. Yes, the world does watch our elections.[/quote]


Record breaking??? How can you beat a record in a speech??? Was her's the quickest speech ever.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=dmek25;471202]schneed, how much money did your C.E.O/ president make last year?[/quote]

From Temple University Health System, he was paid $550,000 last year.

CEOs of health care providers do not get the multi million dollar salaries and bonuses that corporations get, unless you get to the very top of companies like HMA and Tenet. But even then there are only 2 or 3 of those type hugely paid CEOs in the entire industry, and even that probably explains why Tenet is selling off so many assets.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=dmek25;471203]we had 3 major hospitals here. one is lancaster general, one of the leaders in the area. they had a 20 million dollar surplus last year. and their president made roughly 2 million in salary.[/quote]

A $20 million "surplus" (aka profit) on nearly a billion dollars in revenue is only a 2% profit margin.

In other words, they're barely breaking even.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;471199]I see the light, status quo...I see another 60 million dollar loss and possibly the closing of both hospitals next year. Oh wait both hospitals are part of Temple University Health system and Temple University receives public funding! The problem presented isn't Obama's problems, its ours, it will continue to exist and infest and a 5K check isn't going to cut it. It certainly can't fix high drug cost, high practice costs, and lawsuits.

The company I use to work for paid roughly 3 million in health care to Blue Cross Blue Shield and 7 people in the company were responsible for 70% of the medical pay out cost. Needless to say BCBS raised our cost the next year. Point is fixing the health care system is hell of a challenge. A very difficult one at that but I refuse to be so cynical and believe it can't be solved.[/quote]

You're speaking out of turn when you start talking about my employer and what they receive from the University or the state, or whoever.

TUHS received no funding from Temple University last year. NONE.

The university supports the medical school, which is not a part of Temple University Health System.

Can this problem be solved? Maybe. But not without TONS of pain, time, and money. Obama underestimates all of it, and drastically.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;471199]I see the light, status quo...I see another 60 million dollar loss and possibly the closing of both hospitals next year. Oh wait both hospitals are part of Temple University Health system and Temple University receives public funding! The problem presented isn't Obama's problems, its ours, it will continue to exist and infest and a 5K check isn't going to cut it. It certainly can't fix high drug cost, high practice costs, and lawsuits.

The company I use to work for paid roughly 3 million in health care to Blue Cross Blue Shield and 7 people in the company were responsible for 70% of the medical pay out cost. Needless to say BCBS raised our cost the next year. Point is fixing the health care system is hell of a challenge. A very difficult one at that but I refuse to be so cynical and believe it can't be solved.[/quote]
I agree with you on the point that our health care syatem need work I don't agree that it is totaly broken. It needs for all parties to come together, doctors, hospitals, insurance co's, and drug co's, etcc... and fix what broken. Goverment run health ins. is not the answer.

7 1/2 hours till kick off.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Schneed10;471212]You're speaking out of turn when you start talking about my employer and what they receive from the University or the state, or whoever.

TUHS received no funding from Temple University last year. NONE.

The university supports the medical school, which is not a part of Temple University Health System.

Can this problem be solved? Maybe. But not without TONS of pain, time, and money. Obama underestimates all of it, and drastically.[/quote]

I don't think so, in what way is your employer and the university affiliation/relationship fruitful?

You got to have birth pains when having a baby. I would imagine nothing less when it comes to fixing the problems plagued by the health care system.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=mredskins;471208]Record breaking??? How can you beat a record in a speech??? Was her's the quickest speech ever.[/quote]

I think he means "first ever" as in the first time a woman has accepted the republican nomination for vice president.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Buster in '12. He doesn't even need a VP, he can be both president and vice president.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;471217][B]I don't think so, in what way is your employer and the university affiliation/relationship fruitful?[/B]

You got to have birth pains when having a baby. I would imagine nothing less when it comes to fixing the problems plagued by the health care system.[/quote]

It has become in no way fruitful for my employer. We have begun exploring the possiblity of divorcing ourselves from the affiliation with the Medical School.

Currently, the Medical School's physicians and faculty train their med students within our hospital. Because doctors are busy teaching students, they are not out finding as many new patients as a private doctor would. So their productivity, in terms of generating hospital revenue, has always lagged that of private docs. As a result, they have needed subsidies from my employer to break even, and keep the Medical School and their physicians financially solvent. We have been willing to provide this subsidy in the past because replacing these guys with private or employed docs would be just as costly, if not more so. But with physician reimbursement barely growing over the last few years, and their expenses skyrocketing, they have needed an increased subsidy from us. Three years ago, we gave the Med School about 30 million per year, now it's up to 80 million.

We're at the point where it no longer makes sense to allow these doctors to teach students within our hospitals, and we've begun exploring ways to divorce ourselves from the medical school and employ a private physician model or an employed physician model instead.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Schneed you're wrong. You don't know what you are talking about. Insurance comopanies are bad. In no way are they good at all. Baaahhhhhhhhh!!

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;471187]It's profit that has motivated the great advances we have in medicine today.

Please tell me one technological or medical advance that has come from Government....you might find one or two rare instances, but innovation comes from the private sector and their motive is profit.

What great technological or medical innovations come from Communist countries, few or none because there is little to no profit motive to innovate.

EDIT: Improving patient care and service are also motivated by profit. If there is no profit motive, organizations will do the minimum to just get by.[/quote]

First of all, when I say that some things should not be motivated by profit, I do not imply that Government is the fix. There are more than two sides to this discussion.

The point I was trying to make is this:

Businesses seek to maximize profit at all costs. This leads to unethical behavior -- something I'd like to keep out of health care.

@Schneed: you make it sound like hospitals are happy just breaking even. If that's the case, why would they even be in business? Isn't the point of a business to make profit?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Schneed10;471220]It has become in no way fruitful for my employer. We have begun exploring the possiblity of divorcing ourselves from the affiliation with the Medical School.

Currently, the Medical School's physicians and faculty train their med students within our hospital. Because doctors are busy teaching students, they are not out finding as many new patients as a private doctor would. So their productivity, in terms of generating hospital revenue, has always lagged that of private docs. As a result, they have needed subsidies from my employer to break even, and keep the Medical School and their physicians financially solvent. We have been willing to provide this subsidy in the past because replacing these guys with private or employed docs would be just as costly, if not more so. But with physician reimbursement barely growing over the last few years, and their expenses skyrocketing, they have needed an increased subsidy from us. Three years ago, we gave the Med School about 30 million per year, now it's up to 80 million.

We're at the point where it no longer makes sense to allow these doctors to teach students within our hospitals, and we've begun exploring ways to divorce ourselves from the medical school and employ a private physician model or an employed physician model instead.[/quote]

Would it be a fair assessment to say your hospitals and the current health care system at large is failing as a business model and it/they can't seem to coupe with external pressures?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;471238]First of all, when I say that some things should not be motivated by profit, I do not imply that Government is the fix. There are more than two sides to this discussion.

The point I was trying to make is this:

Businesses seek to maximize profit at all costs. This leads to unethical behavior -- something I'd like to keep out of health care.

[B]@Schneed: you make it sound like hospitals are happy just breaking even. If that's the case, why would they even be in business? Isn't the point of a business to make profit?[/quote][/B]

I pray their number one goal is saving lives not making a profit.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;471240]Would it be a fair assessment to say your hospitals and the current health care system at large is failing as a business model and it/they can't seem to coupe with external pressures?[/quote]

No it wouldn't be fair to say that at all.

Most hospitals are staying open and competitive within the United States. How they cope with "external pressures" (aka growing costs of drugs and malpractice) is by demanding higher reimbursement rates from the insurance companies.

The insurance companies then are forced to pass that cost along to the patients in the form of higher insurance rates. The higher the rates go, the fewer patients can afford health insurance.

Is that good? Not at all. But someone will have to explain to me how using taxpayer money to provide coverage for all Americans will slow the growth of those "external pressures" - drug costs and malpractice expenses.

Just because you get all Americans covered with health insurance doesn't mean the underlying cost of administering healthcare will be affected.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

There's nothing wrong with making profit. You can save lives and make a profit. It's just that the system is messed up because of costs and the uninsured.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;471238]
Businesses seek to maximize profit at all costs. This leads to unethical behavior -- something I'd like to keep out of health care.
[/quote]
While there are definitely abuses and unethical actions that happen. There are checks to unethical behavior in the current system; all the health care providers are regulated in some form or another. Breaches of these regulations are extremely costly (hurting profitability). Also if the abuses warrant a lawsuit, defending and/or losing is extremely costly (hurting profitability). So while a business or corporation's sole function is to maximize profit (not a bad thing), it's not done "at all costs". That's why there is a framework of government regulations and the threat of lawsuits to protect the patients against abuses and unethical behavior.

Does our healthcare system have issues to address, absolutely. But assuming the majority of them are caused by dark motives of profit-mongering corporations is not the best way find the solutions IMO.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;471238]First of all, when I say that some things should not be motivated by profit, I do not imply that Government is the fix. There are more than two sides to this discussion.

The point I was trying to make is this:

Businesses seek to maximize profit at all costs. This leads to unethical behavior -- something I'd like to keep out of health care.

@Schneed: [B]you make it sound like hospitals are happy just breaking even[/B]. If that's the case, why would they even be in business? Isn't the point of a business to make profit?[/quote]

Then you've drastically misunderstood me. Hospitals do try to make a profit, it's just that many simply can't in this environment of rising costs. So their sole goal becomes to try to simply stay open.

Either way it's the same goal: make money for profit or make money to stay open. Either way the goal is to reach a money target.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

So for the people who think goverment should take over health ins. could you please name one other program that the goverment runs well and not way over cost.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

werent you just saying how well F.E.M.A was working?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=firstdown;471249]So for the people who think goverment should take over health ins. could you please name one other program that the goverment runs well and not way over cost.[/quote]

Has not the Fed historically demonstrated the inate ability to orchestrate, and maintain highly efficient, cost effective programs keenly in tune with public need and desire operating, under budget projection?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

- Pause in the debate action -

Just want to say I love you guys today, even the crazy lefties like saden and dmek. Because you are Redskin fans, and today is Redskin day!

Good debate too, by the way.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

read about state farm's "collosus"(sp?) program if you think insurance companies dont need a shake up.

I love how every time a republican rep is asked about Palin the only thing they can say is "Well ive talked with the Alaskan delegates and they say she has a strong grasp on economics and should not be underestimated." Way to do your research. If the dems put her on their ticket the repubs would have a field day.

go skins!

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=dmek25;471251]werent you just saying how well F.E.M.A was working?[/quote]
If your speaking about this quote from me in the other thread "You had to take the jab. I have delt with FEMA and they have had issues ever sense I can remember." as saying how well FEMA is doing then that explains allot.

Forgot 3 hours and 28 min till kick off.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;471246]While there are definitely abuses and unethical actions that happen. There are checks to unethical behavior in the current system; all the health care providers are regulated in some form or another. Breaches of these regulations are extremely costly (hurting profitability). Also if the abuses warrant a lawsuit, defending and/or losing is extremely costly (hurting profitability). So while a business or corporation's sole function is to maximize profit (not a bad thing), it's not done "at all costs". That's why there is a framework of government regulations and the threat of lawsuits to protect the patients against abuses and unethical behavior.

Does our healthcare system have issues to address, absolutely. But assuming the majority of them are caused by dark motives of profit-mongering corporations is not the best way find the solutions IMO.[/quote]

You're wrong -- profit is paramount, and no cost is too great if it means maximizing profits. It is the executive duty to the shareholders.

There have been several cases throughout history which exemplify this attitude.

Also, I'm not assuming the majority of issues are caused by profit-seekers. I just heard a lot of talk about how private medicine is better, because it's profit driven. Well, profit isn't the best motivator IMO.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Schneed10;471247]Then you've drastically misunderstood me. Hospitals do try to make a profit, it's just that many simply can't in this environment of rising costs. So their sole goal becomes to try to simply stay open.

Either way it's the same goal: make money for profit or make money to stay open. Either way the goal is to reach a money target.[/quote]

It's just hard for me to believe a hospital would be satisfied breaking even, and keep their doors open in that condition -- especially in this environment of rising costs.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote]Just want to say I love you guys today, even the crazy lefties like saden and dmek. Because you are Redskin fans, and today is Redskin day!
[/quote]
I hate you guys....J/K.

Martinis and arugula salad on me. :grouphug:

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;471278]It's just hard for me to believe a hospital would be satisfied breaking even, and keep their doors open in that condition -- especially in this environment of rising costs.[/quote]

You're still not getting it. Let me try it differently:

Hospitals aren't happy breaking even. They want a profit at all times. But the fact is it's impossible for many of them, so they move heaven and earth just to try to break even (some succeed, some fail).

But are you sure you understand what breaking even means? Breaking even means you cover all your costs and you have nothing left over. That means you manage to pay the ever rising malpractice premiums, you manage to pay for all the drugs and supplies which go higher and higher, you manage to pay all your employees and docs, and you bring in just enough revenue to cover all of this. Breaking even means you kept your operation running, cared for all your patients and gave them a good medical experience, and didn't have to lay anybody off. It's a very good thing (relatively speaking) for a hospital to break even these days.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Schneed10;471285]You're still not getting it. Let me try it differently:

Hospitals aren't happy breaking even. They want a profit at all times. But the fact is it's impossible for many of them, so they move heaven and earth just to try to break even (some succeed, some fail).[/quote]

If they can't make a profit they would close. Why on earth would a business stay open if it's "impossible" to make a profit?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;471287]If they can't make a profit they would close. Why on earth would a business stay open if it's "impossible" to make a profit?[/quote]

Many are indeed closing for that exact reason. In Philadelphia, we recently lost Medical College of Pennsylvania, Parkview Medical Center, and Temple University Children's Medical Center just to name a few.

Others that aren't actually closing are shedding programs that lose money, most notably OB/GYN. There are now only 2 hospitals in North Philly that deliver babies. Five years ago, there were 11.

The hospitals still standing are the ones that either manage to break even (or better) or continue to believe that they can break even with some programmatic changes and key strategic investments (which is what I do).

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

I feel all the love in the air.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Now for some really great humor:

[yt]J8uGenNjOAI[/yt]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

haha, nice Saden.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Daseal;471293]haha, nice Saden.[/quote]

Humor First!

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Much appreciated Saden.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Hypocrisy at it's best... or worst depending on how you look at it.. I'm not sure whether to laugh or bash my head against a wall. I'll probably do both.