Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

Is 11 million enough to sign any decent FA offensive linemen and cover our draftees?

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

[quote=JLC]In the meantime, I figured I'd post the contract for the one offensive lineman they have signed, Derrick Dockery. Most interesting thing with this one is that there is no signing bonus. Zero. Zilch. No upfront money, which allowed them to keep the cap number low in 2009. However, it does include $8.2 million in guaranteed salaries between 2009-2011, so Dockery knows he will be getting that much for sure. Here's the breakdown of the contract:

Base Salary Cap Number
2009 - $3.2 million $3.2
2010 - $2.91 $4.16
2011 - $3.815 $5.065
2012 - $4.775 $6.025
2013 - $5.735 $6.985
Contract voids in 2014

Bonuses:
Dockery has a $1 million option bonus each year beginning in 2010
There are $250,000 workout bonuses in 2010, 2011 and 2012

Guarantees:
Dockery's 2009 salary is guaranteed, and $5 million of his 2010-2011 is guaranteed[/quote]

Been analyzing this and it doesn't seem to make sense.

- NLFPA has Dock signed thru 2014. The contract can probably be voided before the 2014 season but it still counts for signing bonus allocation purposes.

- Why is Dock's cap hit $6.985 in 2013? His salary is $5,735. The $1M option bonus JLC mentions (really a roster bonus) brings his cap hit to $6,735. But he says there is no $250K workout bonus in 2013 so where is the $250K difference?

My guess is that Dock will receive a $5M signing bonus in 2010. This plus his $3.2M guaranteed 2009 salary accounts for the $8.2M guaranteed portion of the contract. The $5M signing bonus will be allocated $1M per year from 2010-2014. In addition he probably receives a $250K workout bonus each year of the deal starting in 2010. Using this model Dock's cap hits would match JLC's "base salary cap numbers".

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

Ok I have made the following updates as per the latest articles posted above:

- Haynesworth $7.0M cap hit in 2009
- Dockery $3.2M cap hit in 2009
- Golston $1.545M 2nd round tender (up from $1.01M)
- Dirk Johnson $460K cap hit in 2009 (vet min)
- I still have Hall at $5.2M cap hit in 2009

With the above changes I have us at $12.27M of cap room.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

[quote=That Guy;534820]that makes it look like 7mill in 2009, then 8.8mill in 2010 (6base + 5/5 2009, 3.6base + 5/5 + 21/5 2010)

i guess that meshes the best and all the money seems to be accounted for there. which means (after the golston correction) we might have 11.5-12mill free?

[b]after reading the dockery deal and the better haynesworth info i don't know how JLC came up with 7mill...[/b][/quote]

From his league source of course. Why do the work if you can call "someone" who can provide you with bad information!

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

To give the benefit of the doubt to JLC, if you tack on a Rookie Pool amount of 2.5, and add Khary Campbell back, you are just about at 7, raise the Rookie Pool some and you are there. Personally I think it's just lazy math (you know 1 +1 is about 3, depending on how big an assumption you make)

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

I am going with crazy canuck

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;534840]Ok I have made the following updates as per the latest articles posted above:

- Haynesworth $7.0M cap hit in 2009
- Dockery $3.2M cap hit in 2009
- Golston $1.545M 2nd round tender (up from $1.01M)
- Dirk Johnson $460K cap hit in 2009 (vet min)
- I still have Hall at $5.2M cap hit in 2009

With the above changes I have us at $12.27M of cap room.[/quote]

Top post in this thread updated for these refinements.

Gee, Haynesworth at 7.0 this year. Who'd a thunk it? Oh wait, [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/salary-cap-central/27715-current-redskins-salary-cap-status-2009-a.html#post518414"]the Warpath did[/URL]!

Canuck you're the man. If the NFL ever expands to Canada let me know because we can buy a team, eat ham with maple syrup, and work the cap.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

New update:

- Rogers' 2009 salary went up by $782.5K, probably due to a salary escalator.

Updated cap room: $11.487M

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

[quote=Schneed10;534900]Canuck you're the man. If the NFL ever expands to Canada let me know because we can buy a team, eat ham with maple syrup, and work the cap.[/quote]

The NFL might come to Canada but they ain't coming to Montreal.

Just give me my baseball team back. ;)

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

cc and schneed, thanks for what you guys do. its nice to be able to click, and see exactly where the skins stand.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

here's some numbers pulled directly from the nflpa (the search is only base salaries and only runs through 2014)

[url=http://www.nflplayers.com/user/template.aspx?fmid=181&lmid=320&pid=0&type=l#searchResults]NFL Players Association[/url]

deangelo hall
2009 5mill
2010 3mill
2011 4.5mill
2012 6mill
2013 7.5mill
2014 9mill

derick dockery
2009 3.2mill
2010 2.91mill
2011 3.815mill
2012 4.775mill
2013 5.735mill
2014 6.695mill

albert haynesworth
2009 6mill
2010 3.6mill
2011 5.4mill
2012 6.7mill
2013 8.5mill
2014 10.3mill

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;534836]Is 11 million enough to sign any decent FA offensive linemen and cover our draftees?[/quote]

there's not really any decent OL left to sign. 3mill can cover rookies, and the team wants some money in case a mid-season signing is needed (due to injuries), but we're fine... we just need to find someone worth signing (i'd like crowell or burnett at LB, but there's been no movement).

barnes deal with the raiders might fall through... not sure what he wants though, cause he's not exactly amazing.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

that guy, welcome back. seems like you disappeared for a while

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

[URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/WarpathRedskinsCap.htm"]3/6/09 update[/URL]

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;534931]New update:

- Rogers' 2009 salary went up by $782.5K, probably due to a salary escalator.

Updated cap room: $11.487M[/quote]

First post updated for this. Thanks.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

One thing I will say, which was Big Haired Aristocrat's concern from before, is that it would suck hard if the Redskins cleared all this cap space and it turns out they don't use it.

They'll definitely use some of it. Be it for Elton Brown, Khary Campbell, Pete Kendall, Phillip Daniels, etc. But I'd hate to see us with enough extra space leftover to have carried a Marcus Washington or Shawn Springs. Hopefully the Redskins have something up their sleeves, I'm just waiting to see a player come visit who would actually be worth a good chunk of change.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

[quote=Schneed10;535034]One thing I will say, which was Big Haired Aristocrat's concern from before, is that it would suck hard if the Redskins cleared all this cap space and it turns out they don't use it.

They'll definitely use some of it. Be it for Elton Brown, Khary Campbell, Pete Kendall, Phillip Daniels, etc. But I'd hate to see us with enough extra space leftover to have carried a Marcus Washington or Shawn Springs. Hopefully the Redskins have something up their sleeves, I'm just waiting to see a player come visit who would actually be worth a good chunk of change.[/quote]

I still agree w/ our cuts re Marcus, Springs, and Taylor (although I wish we'd have done all sooner so we might not have missed out on other FA opportunities); however, I would love to see Marcus re-sign for a reasonable amount and play WLB for us. Probably not happening though.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

we can use it for jason/rogers new deal or to frontload someone that's already got a big contract (though if you seem deadset on a capless nfl, that shouldn't matter much).

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

[quote=Schneed10;535034]One thing I will say, which was Big Haired Aristocrat's concern from before, is that it would suck hard if the Redskins cleared all this cap space and it turns out they don't use it.

They'll definitely use some of it. Be it for Elton Brown, Khary Campbell, Pete Kendall, Phillip Daniels, etc. But I'd hate to see us with enough extra space leftover to have carried a Marcus Washington or Shawn Springs. Hopefully the Redskins have something up their sleeves,[B] I'm just waiting to see a player come visit who would actually be worth a good chunk of change.[/B][/quote]

TO? Just kidding. But seriously. We better not even be thinking about it. Just because Cerrato said "no" (which he also said about Jason Taylor and Haynesworth) doesn't mean it won't happen. We all know how well Rosenhaus and the Danny get along (due mostly to the fact that Danny will overpay a lot of his clients).

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

New update:

- Jason Campbell's 2009 salary raised by $2.075M. I now have Campbell's cap hit at $3.888M.

Updated cap room: $9.412M

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;535054]New update:

- Jason Campbell's 2009 salary raised by $2.075M. I now have Campbell's cap hit at $3.888M.

Updated cap room: $9.412M[/quote]

Cripes these numbers are changing fast! At this latest number I'm not sure we have enough to make much of a splash in FA but then again there's not much buy out there.

... i agree w/ the notion we are set to take an OT in the draft. There's jack shit left in FA at this position and it would be unforgivably irresponsible/stupid to go into the season w/ Samuels, Heyer, Jansen, and whatshisname as our only OTs. To me this means we have to shore up our needs at DLE and OLB in FA and I can't figure out what the FO is waiting for. Daniels and/or Wynn should be signed ASAP. The best available LB FA should be signed too w/o further delay. I know there's a few other FA guys on our roster from last year we want to keep for teams/depth and after all that I think we're left w/ just about enough to pay our drafted rooks.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;535054]New update:

- Jason Campbell's 2009 salary raised by $2.075M. I now have Campbell's cap hit at $3.888M.

Updated cap room: $9.412M[/quote]

How did this happen? Did we give him a new contract or restructure his existing one?

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

he probably reached some sort or performance incentives. in the end, well probably be close to the 7m the post reported. this explains why we really cut jason taylor, didn't push to keep evans, and also why we aren't making any signification moves now... 12m in cap room just sounded too good to be true :(

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;535064]he probably reached some sort or performance incentives. in the end, well probably be close to the 7m the post reported. this explains why we really cut jason taylor, didn't push to keep evans, and also why we aren't making any signification moves now... 12m in cap room just sounded too good to be true :([/quote]

Ditto... i just hope we've got enough space to address LDE, Daniels and/or Wynn presumably, re-sign K. Campbell for teams and Fincher for LB depth. And if we're really lucky sign a legit LB however I would say Crowell is probably out of the mix now w/ our limitations. I wish Marcus could be brought back to play WLB.

... btw I can't imagine we have the dough to sign Barnes at RT. I think we'll move slowly in FA from this point forward.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

[quote=The Goat;535217]Ditto... i just hope we've got enough space to address LDE, Daniels and/or Wynn presumably, re-sign K. Campbell for teams and Fincher for LB depth. And if we're really lucky sign a legit LB however I would say Crowell is probably out of the mix now w/ our limitations. I wish Marcus could be brought back to play WLB.

... btw I can't imagine we have the dough to sign Barnes at RT. I think we'll move slowly in FA from this point forward.[/quote]

$9.4 is quite a bit of space. Dockery is fitting in $3.2.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

[quote=Schneed10;535227]$9.4 is quite a bit of space. Dockery is fitting in $3.2.[/quote]

if we have 9m. its very possible we have less than that, or will have less than that, but there's no way you could know of adjustments to other players cap figures yet.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;535251]if we have 9m. its very possible we have less than that, or will have less than that, but there's no way you could know of adjustments to other players cap figures yet.[/quote]

I do know that CC has looked at the contracts and tried to hit each one that has performance incentive increases. So for this season I think we got them all. CC's cap information ties within half a million to the other reliable cap source that's out there. While the Rogers and Campbell adjustments surprised a bit, it seems the current number is on the money.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

well if we allocate 3m for the rookie pool and another 3 to replace players injured during the season, that only leaves us with 3m... not much to get ol, de, and lb help in free agency

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;535269]well if we allocate 3m for the rookie pool and another 3 to replace players injured during the season, that only leaves us with 3m... not much to get ol, de, and lb help in free agency[/quote]

For every player you sign, he bumps somebody else out of the top 51. So each of the four rookies will bump out a guy currently costing us $380K against the cap. Check out the math in the first post in this thread, it has it all there.

Let's not be argumentative if we're not going to look at the information available to us.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

[quote=Schneed10;535270]For every player you sign, he bumps somebody else out of the top 51. So each of the four rookies will bump out a guy currently costing us $380K against the cap. Check out the math in the first post in this thread, it has it all there.

Let's not be argumentative if we're not going to look at the information available to us.[/quote]

Ok Schneed we'll try and behave... ;) Seriously I do think the pinched number explains our hesitancy to move on guys like Willis and Crowell. We don't have much to work w/ after you consider there are guys/positions we know we'll address. Daniels will come back at vet min. K. Campbell and Fincher probably get re-signed. I still think the FO will want to address OLB in FA. I'd say after these moves and the chunk allocated for the draftees there's just a small rainy-day fund leftover we need to save for, well, for a rainy day.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

New update:

- Sellers 2009 salary raised by $25K.

Rogers, Campbell, and Sellers all hit their salary escalators.

Updated cap room: $9.387M

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

At least it's a small downward adjustment this time around... I like the trend.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

[quote=Schneed10;535270]For every player you sign, he bumps somebody else out of the top 51. So each of the four rookies will bump out a guy currently costing us $380K against the cap. Check out the math in the first post in this thread, it has it all there.

Let's not be argumentative if we're not going to look at the information available to us.[/quote]

I wasnt trying to be argumentative and im sorry if thats how it came off. I was just trying to point out that, based on the only information you guys had at the time, you were adamant about the skins having around 12M in cap space, despite the Times and Post both reporting numbers in the 6-7M range. However, new information came to light (Campbell and Rogers increased base salary for 2009), reducing the cap estimates here from 12M to 9M, so you guys have adjusted your numbers here as well. I'm just saying its possible there is still information out there that you do not have access to yet, and the Times and Post may actually be correct, and we may have around 7M in cap space. The Times and Post are likely not doing any calcuations themselves - they are likely getting numbers from sources within Redskins park and/or the league, who know the real numbers. I have no doubt you guys are providing as accurate of a total as you can given the information you have - but youre still limited by not having full access to the data the team and league have. Its very possible the figures posted in the Times and Post are correct.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;535342]I wasnt trying to be argumentative and im sorry if thats how it came off. I was just trying to point out that, based on the only information you guys had at the time, you were adamant about the skins having around 12M in cap space, despite the Times and Post both reporting numbers in the 6-7M range. However, new information came to light (Campbell and Rogers increased base salary for 2009), reducing the cap estimates here from 12M to 9M, so you guys have adjusted your numbers here as well. I'm just saying its possible there is still information out there that you do not have access to yet, and the Times and Post may actually be correct, and we may have around 7M in cap space. The Times and Post are likely not doing any calcuations themselves - they are likely getting numbers from sources within Redskins park and/or the league, who know the real numbers. I have no doubt you guys are providing as accurate of a total as you can given the information you have - but youre still limited by not having full access to the data the team and league have. Its very possible the figures posted in the Times and Post are correct.[/quote]

Yeah but we do have pretty good info. You can look the salary data up right on the NFLPA website, it's made 100% public. And the information on contract bonuses and the like comes right out of the same articles JLC and David Elfin write for their respective papers. All we do is tally it all up and do the math.

But if it's 7m or 9.4m, isn't the question whether or not that's enough space to do anything? My point is it's plenty. You can add a good starting player in there, like a Dockery, plus get Daniels and Wynn and Campbell, plus sign rookies.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

[quote=Schneed10;535364]

But if it's 7m or 9.4m, isn't the question whether or not that's enough space to do anything? My point is it's plenty. You can add a good starting player in there, like a Dockery, plus get Daniels and Wynn and Campbell, plus sign rookies.[/quote]

if its 7M, we dont have much room at all. We need 2-3Million for our rookies and we need several million to replace injured players during the season. The way i see it, we are on a very tight budget right now and only have the ability to sign old veterans to minimum contracts with very small, if not non-existant, signing bonuses. We certainly dont have space to sign anyone of Dockerys caliber. Any of the remaining noteable LBs on the market are no doubt out of our price range.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;535366]if its 7M, we dont have much room at all. We need 2-3Million for our rookies and we need several million to replace injured players during the season. The way i see it, we are on a very tight budget right now and only have the ability to sign old veterans to minimum contracts with very small, if not non-existant, signing bonuses. We certainly dont have space to sign anyone of Dockerys caliber. Any of the remaining noteable LBs on the market are no doubt out of our price range.[/quote]

Numerous quarrels with this:
[LIST][*]You do need 2-3 million for the rookies, but for every rookie you sign (and later carry onto your 53 man roster) you push out another player from the top 51. We've got 4 draft picks who will push out $380K from the top 51 apiece. So figure the rookies take up $2.5, but they push out $1.5, meaning they only carry a $1.0 net hit to the cap.[*]I have never seen the Redskins carry $2-3 million just to accomodate injuries. That was a number thrown out there by JLC in his blog and it's just wrong. The Redskins have typically carried $1.0 - $1.5 million in buffer space.[*]Just with the rookies, as soon as the Redskins sign a Khary Campbell, they push out $380K from the top 51. Campbell can be had for a $1.0 million deal (or less), which pushes out $380K, for a net hit of $620K. Same with Wynn and Daniels.[/LIST]Here's the math:

Rookies ($2.5)
Players Pushed Out $1.5
Phillip Daniels ($2.0)
Player Pushed Out $0.4
Reynaldo Wynn ($0.8)
Player Pushed Out $0.4
Khary Campbell ($0.8)
Player Pushed Out $0.4
[B]Impact FA ($3.5)[/B]
Player Pushed Out $0.4
Total: [B][SIZE=3]($6.5)[/SIZE][/B]

So that says we could sign an impact free agent who takes up as much space as a Derrick Dockery, plus sign the rooks, plus get Daniels Wynn and Campbell, all with $6.5 million of cap space.

If you believe the space is $7.0 million, it gets tight but it fits. So you go for a $3.0 free agent instead of a $3.5. If you believe the space is $9.4 like we do here at the Warpath, then you've got oodles of room.

I think you're doing a little talking out of turn when you say our cap space is tight. It's clear your knowledge of the cap is limited. Consider attempting to learn about it more and ask more questions. Otherwise please don't tell me space is tight.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

[quote=Schneed10;535372]Numerous quarrels with this:
[LIST][*]You do need 2-3 million for the rookies, but for every rookie you sign (and later carry onto your 53 man roster) you push out another player from the[B] top 51[/B]. We've got 4 draft picks who will push out $380K from the top 51 apiece. So figure the rookies take up $2.5, but they push out $1.5, meaning they only carry a $1.0 net hit to the cap.[*]I have never seen the Redskins carry $2-3 million just to accomodate injuries. That was a number thrown out there by JLC in his blog and it's just wrong. The Redskins have typically carried $1.0 - $1.5 million in buffer space.[*]Just with the rookies, as soon as the Redskins sign a Khary Campbell, they push out $380K from the top 51. Campbell can be had for a $1.0 million deal (or less), which pushes out $380K, for a net hit of $620K. Same with Wynn and Daniels.[/LIST]Here's the math:

Rookies ($2.5)
Players Pushed Out $1.5
Phillip Daniels ($2.0)
Player Pushed Out $0.4
Reynaldo Wynn ($0.8)
Player Pushed Out $0.4
Khary Campbell ($0.8)
Player Pushed Out $0.4
[B]Impact FA ($3.5)[/B]
Player Pushed Out $0.4
Total: [B][SIZE=3]($6.5)[/SIZE][/B]

So that says we could sign an impact free agent who takes up as much space as a Derrick Dockery, plus sign the rooks, plus get Daniels Wynn and Campbell, all with $6.5 million of cap space.

If you believe the space is $7.0 million, it gets tight but it fits. So you go for a $3.0 free agent instead of a $3.5. If you believe the space is $9.4 like we do here at the Warpath, then you've got oodles of room.

I think you're doing a little talking out of turn when you say our cap space is tight. It's clear your knowledge of the cap is limited. Consider attempting to learn about it more and [B]ask more questions[/B]. Otherwise please don't tell me space is tight.[/quote]

So I have a question on the rule of 51. I understand the rule that only the top 51 count against the cap in the offseason, but when do all 53 count against the cap. And if follow the signings you outline, wouldn't it be possible to go over the cap(if it is 7million) when all 53 are counted?

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;535386]So I have a question on the rule of 51. I understand the rule that only the top 51 count against the cap in the offseason, but when do all 53 count against the cap. And if follow the signings you outline, wouldn't it be possible to go over the cap(if it is 7million) when all 53 are counted?[/quote]

You are correct, during the season all 53 guys on your roster count towards the cap. I believe it's cut-down day when this changeover occurs, though I'm not certain. The practice squad also has to count against your cap during the season. That's 8 guys times some number less than $100K. I forget what practice squad guys make.

So you do have to leave a bit more wiggle room. But that's typically accomplished on cut-down day. Inevitably you end up cutting a vet who currently falls in the top 51 and keeping an undrafted free agent or two who currently don't fall in the top 51.

We could sign Renaldo Wynn this week and end up cutting him in August if we discover that the great Alex Buzbee is ready to step up.

Besides, as time goes along here it appears less and less likely that there are any free agents available who are worth a Dockery type contract. The quality linebackers are all on the older side and the tackles seem picked over. The free agent acquisition may be a moot point - it could be the only way to get a quality starter at this point is through the draft.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

Thanks as always for the info.
I am still hoping that after the draft we may find someone out there that gets released from a team with an abundance of one our positions of need.

Re: Current Redskins Salary Cap Status - 2009
 

[quote=Schneed10;535389]Besides, as time goes along here it appears less and less likely that there are any free agents available who are worth a Dockery type contract. The quality linebackers are all on the older side and the tackles seem picked over. The free agent acquisition may be a moot point - [B]it could be the only way to get a quality starter at this point is through the draft[/B].[/quote]

We're doomed.

But that's another thread...