Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

So the real question is this. When we send Seattle or Kansas city this years first and next years first and draft Mr. USC will you support Sanchez?

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;546872]Bottom line here is folks, a new QB no matter who he is isn't going to fix the other issues we have. You build a team from the inside out. Build up the lines and build a strong supporting cast and you can put a decent QB back there and get quality production and win games. Put a good QB behind a bad line with no help around him, and he's going to play to the level of the rest of the offense, simple as that.

It amazes me that some still can't see the writing on the wall. Last year through the first 8 games JC was getting the protection he needed and the rest of the offense was playing well, and what do you know JC was playing well. In the final 8 games he was under pressure and the rest of the offense crumbled around him, and surprise surprise he struggled. It doesn't get any more obvious to me what the issues were.

[B]If we draft Sanchez I might have to take a step back from being a Skins fan for a while. That's how ticked I will be, I'll have one foot out the door[/B].[/quote]
That's EXACTLY how I feel. I would never abandon the Redskins completely, but to say my interest in the coming season would wane, would be putting it mildly. It's hard to pull for an idiot. (D.S.)

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

Sanchez isnt that good, I never saw a game or hightlight where he impressed me (UVA game does not count). He is, for sure, not close to be ready to be under center at least for 2-3 more years in the NFL. Pete Carrol begged him to come back because he was not ready. We have been building with Jason and I feel we could be a good O-Linemen away from a serious playoff run. If Jason fails this year, there are better QBs, NFL ready QBs, coming out next year. Or who knows, Colt did show a little bit last year, maybe he will be ready to lead next year. The draft is such a crap shoot, and I will support who ever we get, but the best direction for this draft is to get a beast O-lineman and OLB.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;546882]First of all, during the first half of the season, JC wasn't doing all that great. He was still just averaging 1 TD per game. The only thing JC wasnt doing was throwing picks. I'd take a QB who throws 3 TDs and 2 INTs per game over a guy who doesnt make mistakes any day of the week - TDs = 7Points. INTs just mean you turn the ball over - they dont always result in points and probably wouldnt result in too many TDs with this defense.[/quote]The most important stat in determining W-L in the NFL is turnover ratio. I'll take an efficient QB over a gunslinger every day of the week and twice on Sunday. As long as the offense is putting up TDs, last I checked a Rush TD was scored the same as a pass TD. INTs aren't "just" a turnover. They are a momentum swing and a potential point change of 10 to 14 points in many cases.

[quote]The O-line declined in the 2nd half of the year, but barring the game where our backup center was playing Left Tackle and blocking one of the best pass rushers in the league, it was still one of the better O-lines in the league (and by that i mean top 16).[/quote]Our OL was statistically performing in the bottom third of the league the second half of the season. Kind of hard to step into a pocket when it is collapsing in your face.

[quote]2) HAVE a GREAT QB so you can get by with a GOOD supporting cast.[/quote]Did you check out Peyton Manning's numbers early in the season while Indy was having OL issues?

[quote]IMO its easier to get one GREAT player than it is to get 21 others.[/quote]What if you miss on Sanchez and he isn't great? Then we're in a world of doo-doo as I mentioned in an earlier post.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;546886]So the real question is this. When we send Seattle or Kansas city this years first and next years first and draft Mr. USC will you support Sanchez?[/quote]

Of course some would, but then they would bust the FO's chops for it later if he fails to produce. Please let this be a smoke screen, or even just due diligence.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

BHA. Sometimes a wise man just has to realize his folly and stop pursuing it.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;546872]Bottom line here is folks, a new QB no matter who he is isn't going to fix the other issues we have. You build a team from the inside out. Build up the lines and build a strong supporting cast and you can put a decent QB back there and get quality production and win games. Put a good QB behind a bad line with no help around him, and he's going to play to the level of the rest of the offense, simple as that.[/quote]

Super Bowl Winning QB Mark Rypien agrees

[quote]If we draft Sanchez I might have to take a step back from being a Skins fan for a while. That's how ticked I will be, I'll have one foot out the door.[/quote]

Great...then what fan site would I go to? I wouldn't be so down if they drafted him at 13. It's trading up to get him that would concern me.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;546895]Please let this be a smoke screen, or even just due diligence.[/quote]Agreed 100%, one glimmer of hope, we did bring in J. Russell an nothing happened there.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

BHA, do you think Sanchez will be "Franchise" great, or great because he is the best in this draft?
Another way to phrase it, If Sanchez had taken Carrol's supposed advice and stayed in till next year, would you be advocating wait for him next year, or get the next best one after Stafford?
I think you want a Superstar qb so bad, and you know in your heart JC isn't it, that you are willing to take just about any qb out there and proclaim him the next "Franchise".

My answers to my questions:
Sanchez is not a sure hit franchise player.
If he came out next year he might be the 4th best behind Tebow and others.

Further, he knows that, and knows that this year he can get top 10 money and like a smart business man, he is catching the cash now.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;546898]

[B]Great...then what fan site would I go to?[/B] I wouldn't be so down if they drafted him at 13. It's trading up to get him that would concern me.[/quote]

Y Hello Der :)

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;546900]Agreed 100%, one glimmer of hope, we did bring in J. Russell an nothing happened there.[/quote]

Yeah but Snyder didn't love Russell (aka Shaq jr without the flair). Apparently with Sanchez (who seems to be the anti-Leinart in that he doesn't let partying get in the way of football) Snyder has found his guy. Honestly I'm kind of intrigued, especially with that quick release and mobility thats part of his pocket awareness, but at the same time I would love to see the team get a starting quality Tackle.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;546876]No, it doesnt, because i'm not alone. Multipe sources were sited as saying this a year ago. Every paid professional that i can recall reading questioned the move, and JCs ability to transiton. While no one on this forum seems to share my view, its a common belief in other forums i visit and amongst my friends. So really, the only place where i go that i don't find anyone beleiving this simple fact is here. It doesnt bother me at all, but i do wonder why you cant see something thats clear as day to me. I guess everyone is entitled to beleive what they want some people are convinced in a God, others are convinced the mere notion is completely idiotic. Both views can't be right, but staunch supporters of either position will never be convinced that the other side is right. I view it as a similar situation here. From my POV, you have blind faith in Campbells success in this system. In my view, all the evidence points to the contrary. Im open to every possibility, but i won't beleive it until i see it.


I agree with what you say about Heyer vs Jason based on their starting point (Campbell-High, Heyer-Low) but for those same reasons, i feel the ceiling is lower for Campbell than it is for Heyer. Campbell clearly showed what he was capeable of, which is why he was drafted so high. With Heyer, he has much more room to improve, if that makes sense.


Excluding the draft, i dont think we could make significant improvements over either Heyer or Campbell, so improving on either of them prior to the drafu is a non-issue.


"No one" on [I]this forum[/I] seems to think Sanchez would be an upgrade over Campbell... but that doesnt mean "no one." Obviously, there arent alot of people making direct comparisons out there, but most teams have Sanchez rated as the best QB in the draft. The Lions are the only team that seems to prefer Stafford and i'm not really sure why... oh, thats right - they're the Lions. Anyway, with Campbell, we know what we're getting. He's a classy mild mannered guy who doesnt make mistakes. With Sanchez, we're getting a guy who has all the physical tools Campbell has, but with the "it" factor. He also has had the advantage of being in only one system the past 3 years.... as opposed to the 7? Campbells been in in the past 9?.


Interesting you bring that up, since CP was just talking about that.
[URL="http://www.hogshaven.com/2009/4/17/841369/clinton-portis-talks-sanchez-in"]Clinton Portis Talks Sanchez in Interview with NFL Live*crew - Hogs Haven[/URL]

I've rambled on enough, but suffice to say, I'd be thrilled in that scenario: Let them compete for it, let them both make eachother better, and let the best man win.[/quote]You're a smart guy, BHA. You're just sufficiently been beaten at this QB discussion, and hardly just by myself, to the point where you are left clinging to non-points and non-realities in the hope that someone might join in soon.

But seriously, clinging to arguments like "it" factor and "ceiling space" are best left to those other fourms you speak of and the friends who will back your opinions no matter what you say. Here, you know, we tend to see that as less of a difference of opinion, and more of a "he's grasping for straws" kind of thing. I like to poke fun at myself and other people when things are said, but once you start using phrases like "can't handle the pressure" and "doesn't have 'it'" and "just a bad fit here", you are no longer making a reasonable argument.

I understand you may rationalize Campbell's continued presence under center as a poor scheme fit, but we can all see through it as a weak cop out because you obviously don't like the guy. We're not stupid, BHA. We've seen you suggest that we should bring in Chris Simms, trade multiple first round picks for Jay Cutler, and now trade up for Mark Sanchez. You can see as clearly as we can how much these things would hurt the team and you've even suggested that we'd be better off losing a ton of games in the short term than not improving the team for the next 5 years or so.

Obviously, that's indicitive of an inconsistent value system. Empircially, whether you like him or not, Jason Campbell is by far the best option for the short term health and possibly long term health of the franchise. Any move that pushes him to the side of the road hurts the team in the short term for sure, and likely the long term as well. The fact that you've been a proponent of not just one, but pretty much all ideas that do this makes it plain as day to me that you are less concerned about the success of this team the next two years than you are that we go at it with someone else than Campbell.

Basically once you perceive the VERY WORST POSSIBLE OUTCOME FOR ALL THINGS CAMPBELL'S FUTURE, your position becomes defensable. And by the same token, you've pretty much wished the worst on the team you choose to root for. I can't understand how you and your buddies can sit around pontificating about how much better things will be when we get rid of JC, and that's not a philosophical difference.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[Quote=GTripp0012]Obviously, that's indicitive of an inconsistent value system. Empircially, whether you like him or not, Jason Campbell is by far the best option for the short term health and possibly long term health of the franchise. Any move that pushes him to the side of the road hurts the team in the short term for sure, and likely the long term as well. The fact that you've been a proponent of not just one, but pretty much all ideas that do this makes it plain as day to me that you are less concerned about the success of this team the next two years than you are that we go at it with someone else than Campbell.

Basically once you perceive the VERY WORST POSSIBLE OUTCOME FOR ALL THINGS CAMPBELL'S FUTURE, your position becomes defensable. And by the same token, you've pretty much wished the worst on the team you choose to root for. I can't understand how you and your buddies can sit around pontificating about how much better things will be when we get rid of JC, and that's not a philosophical difference. [/quote]
Its not that i feel any of my arguments have been proven wrong and i'm grasping at straws - its just that none of my previous arguments have done anything to sway you and there's no sense repeating the same arguments over and over again. I don't hate Campbell - I just dont think he's a good fit here and i am 100% certain he will be gone after this season at the latest - so why not move him now and get some value for him if we can? I'd rather get something for him now, than nothing for him later.

As to my friends - not a single one of them is a redskins fan. Most of them are lifelong Steelers, Colts, Patriots, and Giants fans and we usually watch games at sports bars together or someones house. Alot of them are much older than me and i trust their input - not a one of them that ive talked tothinks Campbell will succeed in this offense, which agrees with what the paid professionals have been saying since we brought Zorn here.

As far as me wishing the worst for the team i root for, its quite the opposite. This franchise has been mediocre since Snyder took over and that will never ever change with Campbell at the helm - he is a guy that doesnt make many mistakes, thats it. He's too timid to ever become great. Campbell ensures this team stays mediocre. Going 9-7 or 10-6 and playing in the wild card game once every few years doesnt satisfy me. If it does you, then you should hang out with fans of consistently good teams and you'll realize what youre missing out on - continued success.

I'd rather risk taking a step back in 2009, have a franchise QB, and then build around him for 10-15 years than continue to hover around 8-8 for that same timespan. You can't get ahead in this game without taking a few chances.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;546898]Super Bowl Winning QB Mark Rypien agrees
[/quote]

How many superbowls did he win again? What team did he become a franchise QB for? what team was able to build around him for continued long-term success?

If you want to luck into a "one hit wonder" superbowl appearance and have a career of mediocrity, thats what Jason Campbell may give you. If you want continued success, we need to look elsewhere.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;546909]How many superbowls did he win again? What team did he become a franchise QB for? what team was able to build around him for continued long-term success?

If you want to luck into a "one hit wonder" superbowl appearance and have a career of mediocrity, thats what Jason Campbell may give you. If you want continued success, we need to look elsewhere.[/quote]

Do you even have a job? My god the amount of time you spend on here is crazy. What the hell where you doing with yourself in Nov of 2008?

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;546908]Its not that i feel any of my arguments have been proven wrong and i'm grasping at straws - its just that none of my previous arguments have done anything to sway you and there's no sense repeating the same arguments over and over again. I don't hate Campbell - I just dont think he's a good fit here and i am 100% certain he will be gone after this season at the latest - so why not move him now and get some value for him if we can? I'd rather get something for him now, than nothing for him later.

As to my friends - not a single one of them is a redskins fan. Most of them are lifelong Steelers, Colts, Patriots, and Giants fans and we usually watch games at sports bars together or someones house. Alot of them are much older than me and i trust their input - not a one of them that ive talked tothinks Campbell will succeed in this offense, which agrees with what the paid professionals have been saying since we brought Zorn here.

As far as me wishing the worst for the team i root for, its quite the opposite. This franchise has been mediocre since Snyder took over and that will never ever change with Campbell at the helm - he is a guy that doesnt make many mistakes, thats it. He's too timid to ever become great. Campbell ensures this team stays mediocre. Going 9-7 or 10-6 and playing in the wild card game once every few years doesnt satisfy me. If it does you, then you should hang out with fans of consistently good teams and you'll realize what youre missing out on - continued success.

I'd rather risk taking a step back in 2009, have a franchise QB, and then build around him for 10-15 years than continue to hover around 8-8 for that same timespan. You can't get ahead in this game without taking a few chances.[/quote]
I asked before, and I still wonder, can you give examples of where a team went and got the franchise qb, then built the rest of the team? I still think you build the team now, and [B][I]IF[/I][/B] JC doesn't work out, then everything is in place and you get your guy. But if you "get your guy" now, and then dump Zorn and JC as you imagine is going to happen, then you now have 2 qbs that the new coach didn't choose, and a new system. We have been down that road a couple times...

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;546901]BHA, do you think Sanchez will be "Franchise" great, or great because he is the best in this draft?
Another way to phrase it, If Sanchez had taken Carrol's supposed advice and stayed in till next year, would you be advocating wait for him next year, or get the next best one after Stafford?
I think you want a Superstar qb so bad, and you know in your heart JC isn't it, that you are willing to take just about any qb out there and proclaim him the next "Franchise".

My answers to my questions:
Sanchez is not a sure hit franchise player.
[B]If he came out next year he might be the 4th best behind Tebow[/B] and others.

Further, he knows that, and knows that this year he can get top 10 money and like a smart business man, he is catching the cash now.[/quote]

Let's not get carried away. He may or may not be behind Bradford and McCoy but no way is he behind Tebow.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;546909]How many superbowls did he win again? What team did he become a franchise QB for? what team was able to build around him for continued long-term success?

If you want to luck into a "one hit wonder" superbowl appearance and have a career of mediocrity, thats what Jason Campbell may give you. If you want continued success, we need to look elsewhere.[/quote]

I think the better question, or atleast what I feel like has been said repeatedly. Is how many SB's did the Hogs, and the Coach's system give us. Most of us look at the 80s era as the glory of the Skins, a TEAM that won consistently year in year out, no "franchise" player but rather OL/DL's that were physical and renowned and home grown.

And yes I would take the 80s - early 90s over hunting and pecking changing coaches/qbs/systems every two years when the current golden child is no longer so golden.

New England isn't having this decade due to Brady, but because of the system-stability- and smart long term patient moves. Same with Pittsburgh. Same with Philly.
Build the TEAM, not grab the current hot babe.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;546908]Its not that i feel any of my arguments have been proven wrong and i'm grasping at straws - its just that none of my previous arguments have done anything to sway you and there's no sense repeating the same arguments over and over again. I don't hate Campbell - I just dont think he's a good fit here and i am 100% certain he will be gone after this season at the latest - so why not move him now and get some value for him if we can? I'd rather get something for him now, than nothing for him later.

As to my friends - not a single one of them is a redskins fan. Most of them are lifelong Steelers, Colts, Patriots, and Giants fans and we usually watch games at sports bars together or someones house. Alot of them are much older than me and i trust their input - not a one of them that ive talked tothinks Campbell will succeed in this offense, which agrees with what the paid professionals have been saying since we brought Zorn here.

As far as me wishing the worst for the team i root for, its quite the opposite. This franchise has been mediocre since Snyder took over and that will never ever change with Campbell at the helm - he is a guy that doesnt make many mistakes, thats it. He's too timid to ever become great. Campbell ensures this team stays mediocre. Going 9-7 or 10-6 and playing in the wild card game once every few years doesnt satisfy me. If it does you, then you should hang out with fans of consistently good teams and you'll realize what youre missing out on - continued success.

I'd rather risk taking a step back in 2009, have a franchise QB, and then build around him for 10-15 years than continue to hover around 8-8 for that same timespan. You can't get ahead in this game without taking a few chances.[/quote]Okay, new question: should the Giants trade multiple first round picks to get up and land Sanchez? Their franchise QB isn't really even as good as Campbell is here right now. Plus, they seem to be a team that has most parts in place, at least talking OL (although they have depth issues).

Where is the threshold for a team to stop trying to improve their QB situation?

I only defer this question to you since you clearly consider yourself the authority on what it takes for a QB to be "great".

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=53Fan;546890]That's EXACTLY how I feel. I would never abandon the Redskins completely, but to say my interest in the coming season would wane, would be putting it mildly. It's hard to pull for an idiot. (D.S.)[/quote]

I am right there with Matty and 53Fan.

Although I did watch my roomate, who is a Falcons fan, freak out about Matt Ryan, only to eat crow later.

But I feel that after ten years of this stuff, I have about had enough of the roller coaster ride.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

I can't recall a Redskins draft that I wanted to be over and done with more than this one.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;546752][B]People like me point out that QB is ONE of our problems and we're labeled as claiming its the ONLY problem? i dont think ANYONE here has ever claimed that he is the "only" problem. [/B]

QB is a position of concern in 2009, and likely (for one reason or another) to be a position of extreme need in 2010. It needs to be evaluated and prioritized along with OL, DE, LB, WR, RB and nickleback. The evaluation needs to compare the specific players we have with the specific players we are able to acquire, what players will be available next year, the risks involved if an draftee doesnt work out, the risks involved in "doing nothing" to address each position, and so on.

The bottom line question is this - What actions can we take to have the best long-term effect on the franchise?[/quote]

I have a simple answer for this, and I dare you to counter my point without: writing a long ass paragraph, take the approach that your opinion is fact, and mention "sources" without actually mentioning them.

Right now there is talk of the team getting Mark Sanchez, well this is how we would get Mark Sanchez and what it would result:

Mark Sanchez = Trading Up = Giving up #13 in '09, a later round pick '09, and/or round pick in '10. Giving up draft picks in '09, including the #13, and possibly a pick in '10 = no Michael Oher or Brian Orakpo, no possibility of trading down, and going into '10 down one draft pick.

So by you telling me that we need Mark Sanchez to replace Jason Campbell, you are telling me that you are willing to risk losing all of these draft picks for the sake of addressing the "QB" position, which would in turn result in not being able to address the DE, LB, RT, and any other position of need. If we are not addressing these other position, then logic tells me that you think Jason Campbell is the only problem.

Oh and are you by any chance Dan Snyder?

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;546922]Oh and are you by any chance Dan Snyder?[/quote]

If you are Dan , can you explain why you hate us.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;546913]Let's not get carried away. He may or may not be behind Bradford and McCoy but no way is he behind Tebow.[/quote]

really? Bradford and Tebow both have Heisman's, Tebow had 2 successive very good/outstanding years. Sanchez did what? Led a team that is perennially a powerhouse. I swear my mind is stuck on one argument. USC built the team, then plugged Sanchez in. Exactly what I want the Redskins to do.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=wilsowilso;546921]I can't recall a Redskins draft that I wanted to be over and done with more than this one.[/quote]

So true, although I was really anxious for the ST draft, because I wanted to see who we got, ST/KWII. But that was from an excitement point of view. This year I just want to see it and see that we don't do something idiotic (like move up for Sanchez)

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;546872]
If we draft Sanchez I might have to take a step back from being a Skins fan for a while. That's how ticked I will be, I'll have one foot out the door.[/quote]

I agree. I mean, I always be a fan, but I just wonder how many times Danny and Co have to fall flat on their face before they realize their methods are broken. I wonder if the fact that McDaniels didn't want Campbell has Danny so intent on finding his replacement. That impulsive little idiot will never get it. I'm convinced. We have so many holes, and QB is not one of them. We already know we have a solid QB. Why mortgage the future (and the present given our needs)? Sanchez could just as easily be Joey Harrington, Alex Smith, or Heath Shuler as he could be Matt Ryan.

It's frustrating that the team I've loved my whole life is run by one of the youngest owners in the league who is intent on repeating the same behavior over and over and expecting different results. Danny isn't going anywhere for a long, long time. If he doesn't change his ways, I guess I better get used to the fact that I won't see consistent success for the rest of my life, literally.

How can such a sharp business man be so friggin dumb? He covets all these big names, and I'm sure he covets the success of the premier franchises these days (NE, Pitt, etc). So why on earth can't he take a page from their book? Build from the inside out, Napoleon.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;546925]really? Bradford and Tebow both have Heisman's, Tebow had 2 successive very good/outstanding years. Sanchez did what? Led a team that is perennially a powerhouse. I swear my mind is stuck on one argument. USC built the team, then plugged Sanchez in. Exactly what I want the Redskins to do.[/quote]

Winning the Heisman trophy has little to no value as an indicator for NFL success as a quarterback.

There have been Heisman trophy winning quarterbacks that went undrafted.

I doubt there is a single GM in the NFL that takes Tebow over Sanchez if Tebow had declared for this draft.

I don't want Sanchez by the way, but he has what the NFL is looking for with regards to him deserving to be a top ten pick.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;546918]Okay, new question: should the Giants trade multiple first round picks to get up and land Sanchez? Their franchise QB isn't really even as good as Campbell is here right now. Plus, they seem to be a team that has most parts in place, at least talking OL (although they have depth issues).

Where is the threshold for a team to stop trying to improve their QB situation?

I only defer this question to you since you clearly consider yourself the authority on what it takes for a QB to be "great".[/quote]

Eli is better than JC.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=GMScud;546927] Sanchez could just as easily be Joey Harrington, Alex Smith, or Heath Shuler as he could be Matt Ryan.[/quote]

Didn't we end up trading back for Ramsey after we failed to trade up for Joey Harrington. Anyone else remember Dan talking outside of the War Room on draft day that year.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=Son Of Man;546929]Eli is better than JC.[/quote]I think you could make that argument, although he won a SB doing exactly what BHA is critiquing Campbell for, but you'd have to admit they are on exactly the same tier.

But the point was, the Giants have yet to extend his contract. Should they be looking to trade up and get Sanchez? I'm wondering, because based on the value system that BHA and others have shown, the answer would seem like a resounding yes. But I don't hear any Giants fans or team reporters even suggesting this as a remote possibility.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;546925]really? Bradford and Tebow both have Heisman's, Tebow had 2 successive very good/outstanding years. Sanchez did what? Led a team that is perennially a powerhouse. I swear my mind is stuck on one argument. USC built the team, then plugged Sanchez in. Exactly what I want the Redskins to do.[/quote]

Is that why Tebow was projected as a 4th round pick...at H-Back?

Eric Crouch won a Heisman.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=Son Of Man;546929]Eli is better than JC.[/quote]

Have fun arguing with Tripp about quarterbacks.

He has the power of statistical vortex.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=wilsowilso;546933]Have fun arguing with Tripp about quarterbacks.

He has the power of statistical vortex.[/quote]That's why they call me the Quarterback guru.

Actually, I called myself that, and then they rightfully made fun of me.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=Son Of Man;546932]Is that why Tebow was projected as a 4th round pick...at H-Back?

Eric Crouch won a Heisman.[/quote]

As a huge Gator fan, I've been biting my tounge on the Tebow comments. But don't even think of comparing him to Eric Crouch. Tebow has better numbers, a better arm, and all of his intangibles are off the charts. He's 6-3, 240, and very mobile. Not to mention he can make every throw, and if you watched him in the SEC Championship game or the title game, dude can thread the needle when he needs to. After this coming season, he will leave UF as one of, if not the most accomplished college QUARTERBACK of all time. He'll be a pro QB, and I have a feeling he'll be a good one.

I guarantee you he is a first round pick in 2010. As a QB. As GTripp said, there's no way every team passes on him.

Jon Gruden knows a thing or two about QBs. Here's his take on Super T during an interview:

[I]Q: [/I]Most people are dismissing Tebow as a quarterback in the NFL.

Gruden: "Tim Tebow is so interesting to me. He’s like [URL="http://www.sun-sentinel.com/topic/sports/brandon-jacobs-PESPT008383.topic"]Brandon Jacobs[/URL] playing quarterback. He’s 250 pounds. He’s the strongest human being who’s ever played the position. Ever. He will kick the living [expletive] out of a defensive lineman. He’ll fight anybody. He is rare. Tebow is the kind of guy who could revolutionize the game. He’s the ‘wildcat’ who can throw. Most of the teams that have the wildcat back there, it’s Ronnie Brown, it’s Jerious Norwood, it’s whoever you want to say it is. This guy here is 250 pounds of concrete cyanide, man. And he can throw. He throws well enough at any level to play quarterback.”

“He can and will play quarterback in the NFL. When he was a high school senior, they played Armwood in the state championship game. I have tape. He has an 80-yard touchdown run that put them in the lead. When it flipped around, and Armwood had the ball, what position do you think Tebow was playing? He was playing nose guard — and he disrupted about 10 plays. This guy is totally different. He’s got [URL="http://www.sun-sentinel.com/topic/sports/rich-gannon-PESPT002463.topic"]Rich Gannon[/URL], Drew Brees, that kind of makeup as a team guy. What he said after the Ole Miss game, I said, ‘That’s my favorite football player I’ve ever seen in my whole life.’ I said, ‘I want Florida to win every game that kid plays from now on.’”

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=Son Of Man;546932]Is that why Tebow was projected as a 4th round pick...at H-Back?

Eric Crouch won a Heisman.[/quote]

I thought I had read the pecking order for this year's draft at the end of the college season, and Sanchez was behind all three. but I could not find it via google. So if i was wrong i is very truly sorry.

I still would say Sanchez would be number 3 at the best and that's not worth any more than this year's number 13. Especially if, as the JC bashing crowd says, we don't improve and end up with the same or worse record. Then we might as well wait till next year and let the newest head coach select the newest franchise quarterback with all the bank books DS can throw at him.

But with this year's draft lets build for this years team.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;546922]I have a simple answer for this, and I dare you to counter my point without: writing a long ass paragraph, take the approach that your opinion is fact, and mention "sources" without actually mentioning them.

Right now there is talk of the team getting Mark Sanchez, well this is how we would get Mark Sanchez and what it would result:

Mark Sanchez = Trading Up = Giving up #13 in '09, a later round pick '09, and/or round pick in '10. Giving up draft picks in '09, including the #13, and possibly a pick in '10 = no Michael Oher or Brian Orakpo, no possibility of trading down, and going into '10 down one draft pick.

So by you telling me that we need Mark Sanchez to replace Jason Campbell, you are telling me that you are willing to risk losing all of these draft picks for the sake of addressing the "QB" position, which would in turn result in not being able to address the DE, LB, RT, and any other position of need. If we are not addressing these other position, then logic tells me that you think Jason Campbell is the only problem.

Oh and are you by any chance Dan Snyder?[/quote]

What sources have i ever claimed to have? I dont have inside sources. I'm just a fan.

As to your "logic" to say i think Campbell is the only problem, completely ignores the explanation i gave. I'll requote it:

[quote]QB is a position of concern in 2009, and likely (for one reason or another) to be a position of extreme need in 2010. It needs to be evaluated and prioritized along with OL, DE, LB, WR, RB and nickleback. The evaluation needs to compare the specific players we have with the specific players we are able to acquire, what players will be available next year, the risks involved if an draftee doesnt work out, the risks involved in "doing nothing" to address each position, and so on.[/quote]

your "logic" would mean if I said we should trade up to draft Jason Smith, it would mean I thought it was the teams ONLY need, and we were ignoring the others? No, it would just mean that I thought Jason Smith was so head and shoulders above both what we have on this team, and above his peers in the draft, that he was worth trading up to get, even if it meant making fewer improvements in other areas. It wouldnt mean i felt OT was the teams only need.

Feel free to disagree with me, and express your opinion, but dont assert i have opinions which i have not expressed, especially when theyre that outlandish.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;546936]I thought I had read the pecking order for this year's draft at the end of the college season, and Sanchez was behind all three. but I could not find it via google. So if i was wrong i is very truly sorry.

I still would say Sanchez would be number 3 at the best and that's not worth any more than this year's number 13. Especially if, as the JC bashing crowd says, we don't improve and end up with the same or worse record. Then we might as well wait till next year and let the newest head coach select the newest franchise quarterback with all the bank books DS can throw at him.

But with this year lets build for this years team.[/quote]

Getting a new coach and new QB and new system next year is a horrible scenario. IMO if we stick with Zorn/Cambpell, thats what Snyder will end up doing. If thats the case, we might as well trade our picks for 2010 picks so the new regime can have something to work with.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;546934]That's why they call me the Quarterback guru.

Actually, I called myself that, and then they rightfully made fun of me.[/quote]

Oh man, that was great. We had so much fun with that :)

Quarterback Swami, Quarterback Seer, Quarterback Svengali, Quarterback Maestro, etc...

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;546938]Getting a new coach and new QB and new system next year is a horrible scenario. IMO if we stick with Zorn/Cambpell, thats what Snyder will end up doing. If thats the case, we might as well trade our picks for 2010 picks so the new regime can have something to work with.[/quote]
So do you think bringing in Sanchez would keep Zorn for more then 2 more years?

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;546937][B]QB is a position of concern in 2009, and likely (for one reason or another) to be a position of extreme need in 2010.[/B] It needs to be evaluated and prioritized along with OL, DE, LB, WR, RB and nickleback. The evaluation needs to compare the specific players we have with the specific players we are able to acquire, what players will be available next year, the risks involved if an draftee doesnt work out, the risks involved in "doing nothing" to address each position, and so on.[/quote]See, this is where Schneed comes out of the dark to rip you for not understanding contract negotiation structure and stuff. The assumption that we won't have Campbell by anything other than our own discretion isn't worth responding to. It's true that his contract ends, but he's not going anywhere unless we move in another direction.

The problem with the rest of this is that all those other positions are needs because we are really old there. We're not old at QB, and thusly, it should be prioritized much, much lower in the draft. We have a 27 year old QB and a 26 year old QB behind him (Colt's age on opening day). We won't need to "get younger" for the next 5-7 years, or at least until Colt's contract expires after 2011.

So to say QB is a position of need in the draft is ignoring the obvious elephant in the room: either we end up with three different QBs shy of their prime years, or we cut a young guy to make room for a younger guy.

Meanwhile, every one of the positions left unadressed ages one year every year. Across the board, teams age very, very fast. We tend to piss away our draft picks anyway. Here's the thing: if you are tired of mediocrity, but you support a trade up for Mark Sanchez, I think you either have no idea what mediocrity is, or you are being hypocritical. On the oldest team in the NFC, pushing 27 year old starters, at any position, to the side of the road is not progress.

Regardless of what you think of Campbell, correct me if I'm wrong, our number one need is youth, across the board. Spend the pick somewhere to get significantly younger. That's how you break mediocrity's spell, not this "guess in the dark on QBs" crap.

Re: Mark Sanchez at 13th?
 

I just had a realization: I respect Jerry Jones more than The Little Danny. At least Jones has the balls and integrity to label himself as the general manager. He doesn't operate through some puppet personnel VP.

I'm annoyed. I'm headed out to have some drinks with my girlfriend and enjoy this awesome weather.

Happy Friday everyone.