Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;737132]^ thats pretty funny, but the difference between VJ and our receivers is that on that 3rd down play [B]when McNabb bombed it to Galloway, VJ makes that catch, and we win the game[/B], Galloway doesn't because he doesn't have that long of arms.[/quote]

Impressive, VJ will catches passes intended for Galloway? :food-smil

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;737132]^ thats pretty funny, but the difference between VJ and our receivers is that on that 3rd down play when McNabb bombed it to Galloway, VJ makes that catch, and we win the game, Galloway doesn't because he doesn't have that long of arms.[/quote]

As I said before, VJax doesn't have that type of speed. He's fast but, Galloway is a tenth of a second faster which translates to more separation over 60 yards.

Credit: Sports Science

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;737126]Oh noooo. Madden will be so much harder for us Redskin fans. whatever will I do when I look at our pass catchers and see no one rated over 90. Ohhh no.[/quote]

Do what I do run Moss, Armstrong, and Banks on drag routes lol

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;737138]Moss will be a 90 soon[/quote]

I seriously doubt that. This isn't Madden 06.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;737201]As I said before, VJax doesn't have that type of speed. He's fast but, Galloway is a tenth of a second faster which translates to more separation over 60 yards.

Credit: Sports Science[/quote]

Or credit: Common Sense

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;737217]Or credit: Common Sense[/quote]

I wouldn't necessarily say that. Galloway came into the league running a 4.18. It's reasonable to believe that he's lost a step or two and now runs somewhere around a 4.3 forty. Vincent Jackson ran a 4.46 at the combine. Common sense would dictate to someone like me that a tenth of a second isn't that much of a difference but Sports Science has me saying otherwise.

On a side note, Jackson is actually a really smart guy:
[quote]He came from a military family and had a 4.25 GPA in college. It is hard to fathom how alcoholism was able to find a way into his life.

Vincent Jackson is not a thug, not illiterate, and not a mean guy. He simply has a problem with alcohol, that's all.

He may not admit it, but he needs help.

I am a big fan of Vincent Jackson. I love what he brings to the team, his attitude, and how he has gotten better each year. I certainly wish Vincent the best and hope he will overcome his demons and overcome an obstacle that many succumb to.[/quote]

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

V Jackson to skins, skins trade Fred Davis and a 2nd to SD.

Think of the 2 TE sets they could run in San Diego...................

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=Mechanix544;737225]V Jackson to skins, skins trade Fred Davis and a 2nd to SD.

Think of the 2 TE sets they could run in San Diego...................[/quote]

is that a proposal you are saying there.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;737223]I wouldn't necessarily say that. Galloway came into the league running a 4.18. It's reasonable to believe that he's lost a step or two and now runs somewhere around a 4.3 forty. Vincent Jackson ran a 4.46 at the combine. Common sense would dictate to someone like me that a tenth of a second isn't that much of a difference but Sports Science has me saying otherwise.

On a side note, Jackson is actually a really smart guy:[/quote]

really? I would think exactly what sports science said at first thought. BTW, I hate sports science

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

ya, just a proposal, but one I would do in a heartbeat.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=Mechanix544;737235]ya, just a proposal, but one I would do in a heartbeat.[/quote]

Good, because we would have gotten fleeced on that one!

A second roun pick and a potential franchise TE for WD is not a good trade. It doesn't matter if you'd do it, most sane people wouldn't

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=mbedner3420;737245]Good, because we would have gotten fleeced on that one!

A second roun pick and a potential franchise TE for WD is not a good trade. It doesn't matter if you'd do it, most sane people wouldn't[/quote]

In all fairness MB, Dont we have a FRANCHISE TE already? I'm not saying trade Davis but in all honesty it's hard to have 2 TE's play at that level on the same roster.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

Do not trade away one of the best TE combos in the NFL. We just got a little taste of what both of these guys could do on Sunday. Yeah FD missed a block on teams, but I doubt he ever will again.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

A 2nd rd pick and Davis. What r u smoking?

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

The trade we apparantly need to make is Haynesworth for a better Defensive coordinator

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;737255]In all fairness MB, Dont we have a FRANCHISE TE already? I'm not saying trade Davis but in all honesty it's hard to have 2 TE's play at that level on the same roster.[/quote]

Thats the same reasoning that SD could apply with this trade. They have a top five TE playing right now if not the best, what's to assume they'd play at the same level. I think they'd just take a 2nd round pick, they don't need another tight end. we'd just be giving him away for no reason.

Regardless, a second round is too much for VJ. Unless we get a second for haynesworth or a package deal comparable to a second (which won't happen until a premier 4-3 DT pops an ACL) it's not worth it. I want to get younger, it's tough to do that when you get rid of youth seemingly just to get rid of him.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

Does everyone realize that the Davis/Cooley duo put up 126 yards this week with 62 of those yards being credited to Davis? Let's keep our spread attack the way it is.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

I feel like 400 yards passing last week should be helping to quiet any arguments that we need jackson on this team. Sure I'd take him for a 3rd rounder or less, but SD isn't gonna give him up for that, and given what mcnabb is producing with the weapons he has, I'm not giving up anything more if I'm Bruce Allen. Long live galloway and moss haha

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

Hank Baskett is on his way to sign with the Vikes, so there goes that Jackson trade.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

Skinsnut, I could have swore after week 1 you were high on JH.. And it wasn't all him vs Houston, players have to make plays

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;737318]Hank Baskett is on his way to sign with the Vikes, so there goes that Jackson trade.[/quote]

Thats what happens when you let your ego run the show. Instead of getting something you simply end up with your ego in your hand.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=takethecake;737307]I feel like 400 yards passing last week should be helping to quiet any arguments that we need jackson on this team. Sure I'd take him for a 3rd rounder or less, but SD isn't gonna give him up for that, and given what mcnabb is producing with the weapons he has, I'm not giving up anything more if I'm Bruce Allen. Long live galloway and moss haha[/quote]

True, but VJ wouldn't of dropped the winning TD like Galloway did.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=Shadowbyte;737329]True, but VJ wouldn't of dropped the winning TD like Galloway did.[/quote]

It'd be hard for Jackson to catch the winning TD from his house, which is where he would have been serving his suspension and not on the field playing for us.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=Shadowbyte;737329]True, but VJ wouldn't of dropped the winning TD like Galloway did.[/quote]

Longer arms are canceled out by less speed and possibly better coverage.

Also, it was to far out for Galloway to drop it.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;737302]Does everyone realize that the Davis/Cooley duo put up 126 yards this week with 62 of those yards being credited to Davis? Let's keep our spread attack the way it is.[/quote]

Well, all of Davis' yards came on one catch. He won't be putting up 62 every week averaging one catch a game.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=skinsnut;737268]The trade we apparantly need to make is Haynesworth for a better Defensive coordinator[/quote]

I was against having Haslett, I'll admit that. However watching the game I thought the team played Dallas pretty good, and watching the Houston game I felt the defense did pretty good as well. The rush is getting better and we had what 5 sacks?

Now I know your going to pull out the statistic's book and say we are 31st and 32nd when it comes to passing and running defense which is horrid, then your going to pull out the yardage both teams put up on us which I technically can't defend. All I can say is the defense LOOKED better then it ever has before under Williams or Blache. It LOOKED better. In past yrs the defense has looked emotionless and just going through the motions, but the were ranked 4th defensively. To me the defense finally looks like they are having fun smiling and enjoying the game.

I wonder if the other 3-4 defenses have the same issue's? Are they risking the big play due to blitzing or is it just the Skins and growing pains? If this is just one biproduct of the 3-4 defense then I'll accept it in order to have more sacks and possible rusing of the QB which creates interceptions vs. what we have seen in Williams and Blache's scheme.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

SD rejected an offer from the Vikes of a 2nd-round pick and conditional 2011 pick.

They want two second-rounders or a 2nd- and 3rd from the same year. They won't get that much for a problem child WR. Yes he's talented, but some risk comes along with him.

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-jacksonchargers092110]Vikings-Chargers deal for Jackson looks bleak - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

Wasn't New Orleans D ranked 26th last year? It was turnovers, and aggressive calling kept them in games. Yardage stats alone are a useless stat for ranking D's. Points allowed are a far better stat, and if you can somehow adjust by points the D scored then that would probably be even better.

IF we allow the Rams to get 400 yds of offense, or can't keep a lead (assuming we get one) then I will worry more, but Houston looks like a team that's going to get it's points week in week out.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=Buster;737390]SD rejected an offer from the Vikes of a 2nd-round pick and conditional 2011 pick.

They want two second-rounders or a 2nd- and 3rd from the same year. They won't get that much for a problem child WR. Yes he's talented, but some risk comes along with him.

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-jacksonchargers092110]Vikings-Chargers deal for Jackson looks bleak - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url][/quote]

How could any team sign off on that type of deal for a guy who is one 5:15am stop away from a year suspension.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=takethecake;737307]I feel like 400 yards passing last week should be helping to quiet any arguments that we need jackson on this team. Sure I'd take him for a 3rd rounder or less, but SD isn't gonna give him up for that, and given what mcnabb is producing with the weapons he has, I'm not giving up anything more if I'm Bruce Allen. Long live galloway and moss haha[/quote]

The problem is most of those yrds were spread amongst 3 players. Moss for the most part, Davis, then Cooley. VJ is a tall WR, something of which we don't have right now who could easily be the endzone threat for a fade route possibly along with Armstrong. He's also big enough that he won't be easily brought down on first contact... unlike Moss.

I too want to see our WR's step up on the field and have been wondering if MS is bringing them along slowly? The first game was mainly for Moss, but Cooley was involved. The second game Moss had more of a roll as did Cooley, but Davis was added, Galloway was incorporated, and Armstrong had one or two nice catches. I can't wait to see what game three brings us.... will they utilize all; Moss, Cooley, Davis, Galloway, Armstrong, and add Banks on some screen passes? Will the OL be able to open the holes for the RB's? I hope the Rams are just what the team needs, a win, to boost their ego's and understand each persons responsibilities and rolls. I hope they have a break out game and not play to the level of our opponant.

Back on track.... if we can get VJ, I'd say get him. We waisted 2 second round draft picks for Thomas and Kelly and the team has not reaped the benifits from it. Will they ever? I'm begining to doubt it. So "if" the team decided to give up 2 second round picks for a "proven" WR I'll be ok with it. Moss, although still appears to have gas in his tank, is getting old, Galloway is old, R.Williams really didn't do much- was cut by us a year ago- and is back again but has not produced. We are finally getting production out of Thomas on ST, but not at WR. Armstrong I think and hope is the real deal, but where will we be next yr? If youth is the game plan we have R.Williams, Armstrong, Thomas, Banks, and Austin. Only two have shown promise as a WR..... Armstrong, and Banks (especially on screen passes).

I would rather they spend the draft pick on a proven, known commodity, VJ, vs. rolling the dice on another unknown WR comming out of college and rolling craps again.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=Shadowbyte;737329]True, but VJ wouldn't of dropped the winning TD like Galloway did.[/quote]

Mainly because he's taller and when stretching out for the ball would have gotten a better attept at catching it.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;737345]Longer arms are canceled out by less speed and possibly better coverage.

Also, it was to far out for Galloway to drop it.[/quote]

This is a possibility, but keep in mind Galloway goes long using speed, Moss was catching everything so I imagine he might have been double covered, then you have VJ- a big target on a slant just underneith Galloway to catch the ball for a 1st down if need be so McNabb doesn't have to force the long ball to Galloway.

Like you said though it doesn't guarentee VJ catch's the ball but he definitly might have been able to jump higher in order to catch it vs. having to dive for the ball. We really don't know. But not just using one play... VJ is a tall WR who will out jump most CB's for the ball so McNabb would have a tall WR, VJ is a solid WR also and hard to bring down on initial contact unlike Moss who is good and fast but usually avoids contact.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;737398]How could any team sign off on that type of deal for a guy who is one 5:15am stop away from a year suspension.[/quote]

Well also look at who the HC is. Norv is not known for discipline. He's a players coach. Hopefully Shanahan would instill more discipline and VJ wouldn't be in the situation he's in. VJ is a man and needs to grow up and act like one if he wants to keep playing I'll agree and all his troubles are not Norvs fault but bringing him in with a strict contract and perhaps a punishment for if he fails a drug test or gets into trouble again might cure/fix the problem. A long with having a HC that won't put of with the itshay.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

I think last week showed that much like he's done his entire career, McNabb has a knack for spreading the ball around and making the most of his receivers. At this point I would definitely pass on VJ, considering what it's going to take to get him here in terms of draft picks, and then a big contract on top of that.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

Would we be better with VJ at wideout? Absolutely.

But what does better define? A game? Maybe. 2 games? I doubt it.

I'm not giving a 2nd rounder for someone that won't be able to contribute a very significant difference to this organization. GM Allen is going to pass unless we can work a deal out with Haynesworth, which seems like a stretch to me as well.

I think we're stuck with Haynesworth until the off-season, pending the current situation doesn't evolve much.

This is still a rebuilding team. And we need to focus on our foundation first. If we're going to focus on a solid line for next year, I think we've gotta pass on this right now.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=Buster;737390]SD rejected an offer from the Vikes of a 2nd-round pick and conditional 2011 pick.

They want two second-rounders or a 2nd- and 3rd from the same year. They won't get that much for a problem child WR. Yes he's talented, but some risk comes along with him.

[URL="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-jacksonchargers092110"]Vikings-Chargers deal for Jackson looks bleak - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/URL][/quote]


4pm looms soon. I wonder if they would take a 2nd round pick for the next draft 2011 and a guarenteed 3rd for 2012? We would still have;
[B]2011:[/B] 1, VJ, DMac, Brown(NO), 5, 6, 7.
[B]2012:[/B] 1, 2, VJ, 4, 5, 6, 7.

It doesn't look bad when you look at what you got for the pick. Tell me your not happy with the 2011 3rd round pick and possibly 4th round pick. I'd say we did good. To throw in a proven WR would be a steal of a draft.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=RobH4413;737414]Would we be better with VJ at wideout? Absolutely.

But what does better define? A game? Maybe. 2 games? I doubt it.

I'm not giving a 2nd rounder for someone that won't be able to contribute a very significant difference to this organization. GM Allen is going to pass unless we can work a deal out with Haynesworth, which seems like a stretch to me as well.

I think we're stuck with Haynesworth until the off-season, pending the current situation doesn't evolve much.

This is still a rebuilding team. And we need to focus on our foundation first. If we're going to focus on a solid line for next year, I think we've gotta pass on this right now.[/quote]

[B]#1-[/B] it would be more then 1 game. I don't know where you got that idea?
He can't come back until game 6. Two of the three games he was not supposed to report are gone. Bring him in and give him the playbook to study. Then he can come in to practice for 2 weeks. Game six we put him on the field. Thats atleast 10 he has to contribute.

[B]#2- [/B]If and I say if the team would pull the trigger, most of you are saying it would be too much for him, but if we did you have to admit he's got to be better and would produce more then R.Williams, and possibly Armstrong. I'd keep Moss, Galloway, Armstrong, VJ, Thomas, and Banks(namely for screen passes, KR/PR). Next yr we could have Moss, Armstrong, VJ, Thomas, Banks, and Austin. For those wanting the team to get younger they would have.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=SBXVII;737421][B]#1-[/B] it would be more then 1 game. I don't know where you got that idea?
He can't come back until game 6. Two of the three games he was not supposed to report are gone. Bring him in and give him the playbook to study. Then he can come in to practice for 2 weeks. Game six we put him on the field. Thats atleast 10 he has to contribute.

[B]#2- [/B]If and I say if the team would pull the trigger, most of you are saying it would be too much for him, but if we did you have to admit he's got to be better and would produce more then R.Williams, and possibly Armstrong. I'd keep Moss, Galloway, Armstrong, VJ, Thomas, and Banks(namely for screen passes, KR/PR). Next yr we could have Moss, Armstrong, VJ, Thomas, Banks, and Austin. For those wanting the team to get younger they would have.[/quote]

Rob is saying, "How do you measure 'better'?" Would we be one win better? Two? We certainly wouldn't be 10 wins better.

Bottomline: we can win without him, and we need our picks. Case closed.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

On a side note I hope they don't get rid of AH. I hope that they deactivate him every game until he decides to practice and play. We paid him 21 mill and because he comes in throwing a tantrum and playing half arse some people are saying lets just cut him. Others are saying lets get what we can get. No not me. I'm not paying someone 21 mill, and because he's not happy simply doing whatever it takes to make him happy ie; trading him for scraps or cutting him so he can go wherever he wants to. Not going to happen.

I would get 21 mill of entertainment one way or another. AH does not want to play, is unhappy, not putting forth effort, then he can ride the bench so I can see what 21 mill bought me week in and week out the whole time he's not playing for a whole yr. Who's going to want him next yr? He's old, almost useless now (atleast for us), and would not have played for a whole yr. Teams kinda shy away from that. Look at Big Mike Williams... we were the only team that gave him a shot and he still ended up injured. Other teams would be weighting that heavily.

No let AH ride the pine and let the fans ridicule him every week.

Re: V. Jackson "Prepared to Sit out season"
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;737424]Rob is saying, "How do you measure 'better'?" Would we be one win better? Two? We certainly wouldn't be 10 wins better.

Bottomline: we can win without him, and we need our picks. Case closed.[/quote]

What are we getting for those picks? We have a 1st rounder I would not part with either. 2nd round talent is usually a work in progress, usually not starting material. To give away a draft pick for a starting WR which we will need unless your willing to gamble on a WR coming out of the draft like we did with Thomas and Kelly? Thinking ahead.... are we going to stick with Moss, Galloway, and R.Williams? Moss most likely. Galloway you'd want to keep and R.Williams? I'd give both up for VJ. Armstrong if he keeps developing will be awsome I think, Thomas still has work to do, and most of you all figured Banks wouldn't make the team.

So next yr your happy with Moss, Armstrong, Thomas, Austin, Banks, and who? R.Williams is not that great, Galloway is old, don't even mention Kelly cause I've written him off. I think the team is keeping him as a one last chance and if he's injured again (which is likely to happen) he's gone.

All I'm saying is the price is not as high as everyone thinks. Will there even be a draft next yr? It looks like there might not even be a limit on what teams can spend. So why the worry? Arguements would be better if people argued that by spending all that money on VJ would raise ticket prices in order to pay for him. I'm not worried about that either cause its already too expensive for me so I watch at home. Then there is the rumor that teams might be able to keep 60 or 80 players especially if they ever decided to eliminate 2 preseason games and make them season games.