Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

Ah so the fake smile part has you bent?

Perhaps that wasn't needed, but other than that it's really pretty similar to the report that Clausen had.

How am I gonna drag Newton into this? Well we are talking about his scouting report aren't we? And his advisor, Moon, is the one that was all irked and tossing out the race card. So I think it has something to do with Newton and his ability to handle criticism.

The race card was weak.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

Nolan Nawrocki isn't some schlub. He's a former Division 1 football player whose opinion has been extremely well received by many, if not all, NFL front offices. And he wasn't the one who put his report of Cam Newton online everywhere. And it's not his fault one of the first times the common fan is getting access to a full report on a player is this time.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Mattyk;792110]How am I gonna drag Newton into this? Well we are talking about his scouting report aren't we? And his advisor, Moon, is the one that was all irked and tossing out the race card. So I think it has something to do with Newton and his ability to handle criticism.[/quote]
Lol, that's weak.

If I say something to about you that offends Smootsmack does that mean that you are unable to handle criticism?

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;792111]Nolan Nawrocki isn't some schlub. He's a former Division 1 football player whose opinion has been extremely well received by many, if not all, NFL front offices. And he wasn't the one who put his report of Cam Newton online everywhere. And it's not his fault one of the first times the common fan is getting access to a full report on a player is this time.[/quote]

[url=http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBwQqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fprofootballtalk.nbcsports.com%2F2011%2F03%2F31%2Fnolan-nawrocki-responds-to-warren-moons-claim-of-racial-bias%2F&ei=SmObTd2JHeTk0gHv8LTlAg&usg=AFQjCNEHTp9tLE_UyMduo-L6oQky-YGI-g&sig2=xJE-nKFAW0UbKoUvlQIGRA]Nolan Nawrocki responds to Warren Moon’s claim of racial bias | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Here is the full Nolan Nawrocki Newton Scouting report:

[url=http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/03/29/cam-newton-scouting-report]ProFootballWeekly.com - Cam Newton scouting report[/url]

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Mattyk;792110][B]Ah so the fake smile part has you bent?[/B]

Perhaps that wasn't needed, [B]but other than that it's really pretty similar to the report that Clausen had.[/B]

How am I gonna drag Newton into this? Well we are talking about his scouting report aren't we? And his advisor, Moon, is the one that was all irked and tossing out the race card. So I think it has something to do with Newton and his ability to handle criticism.

The race card was weak.[/quote]

Ultimately teams have to make their own opinion on players and not depend on someone who barely interviewed a player and his acquaintances.

There is no race issue here. While I had some minor issues with the "fake smile" part and "always knows where the cameras are". I have to say I had more problems with the "[B]Not Dependable"[/B] part.
I am a firm believer of a persons "actions speaks louder than words' or words of others about you. I think there is one major difference between the Clausen criticism and the recent Newton criticism". It was common knowledge even before Clausen's senior year started that there were locker room and leadership issues and that some of his teammates did not like him. I remember watching a ND game during Clausen's senior year and the TV commentators talked about it on national tv.
This is the first I am hearing about Newton having lost his locker room. Newton being described as not dependable player and, "Lacks accountability, focus and trustworthiness — is not punctual, seeks shortcuts and sets a bad example. Immature and has had issues with authority. [B]Not dependable.[/B]" seems to fly against all of his accomplishments and what has been said about him during his time at Auburn. Accomplishments on the field that Clausen does not bring to the table.
This thing is really a whole lot about nothing issue. When reviewing a player or employee and you have to come up with "positives" and "negatives", sometimes you can go over board about one minor thing so you don't have to spend extra time and work coming up with another talking point.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=30gut;792113]Lol, that's weak.

If I say something to about you that offends Smootsmack does that mean that you are unable to handle criticism?[/quote]

So you're saying you think Newton is no way was bothered by this, and Moon was acting all alone in tossing out the race card?

Possible but I doubt it.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

Throwing out the race card has become the most surefire way to distract attention from the original issue. It has become a tool and that is unfortunate.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Defensewins;792141]Ultimately teams have to make their own opinion on players [B]and not depend on someone who barely interviewed a player and his acquaintances.[/B][/quote]

Teams take info from all types of sources into account. Former coaches, teammates, friends, family, teachers, etc. You don't have to personally interview someone in order to get a pretty good feel for someone.

In fact I'd bet teams put more stock into what acquaintances say about a guy vs. a personal interview where it's easy for a kid to be coached up as to what to say and how to act.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Mattyk;792153]Teams take info from all types of sources into account. Former coaches, teammates, friends, family, teachers, etc. You don't have to personally interview someone in order to get a pretty good feel for someone.

[B]In fact I'd bet teams put more stock into what acquaintances say about a guy vs. a personal interview where it's easy for a kid to be coached up as to what to say and how to act.[/B][/quote]

This must be true especially in terms of a Combine interview, rather than a team visit, as such interviews last only 15 minutes.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=30gut;792017]If you don't agree fine but don't cry outrage when someone (Warren Moon) is offended.
How would you feel if someone told you how to feel?[/quote]

Moon wasn't offended. He knew this isn't a racial issue, but wanted to use this as leverage for his client. He had no basis whatsoever to claim racism.



[quote=30gut;792017]Fact is Moon [I][B]has[/B][/I] been discriminated against because of his race.
If he senses the same thing to is happening to Newton he has every right to express that..[/quote]

Oh, so because he's been discriminated against at somepoint in his life, it gives him the right to basically call somebody a racist before he knows the facts?

Jesse Jackson played that race card back during the Duke Lacrosse rape trial, pandered to the public, and offered to pay for this poor girl's tuition only to find out later that it was all a huge lie. It's amazing what finding out the facts will do before you open your big mouth about a issue concerning racism. I'm sure Jesse has experienced discrimination, but did it give him the right to crucify those college boys all because it was a racial issue in his mind? That shit doesn't fly with me, and pretty much why I'll never take Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton serious at all. (and now Moon)


[quote=30gut;792017]Lets not confuse the issue here Norwicki's profile was personal and unprofessional and [I]Warren Moon[/I] felt it was racial driven.[/quote]

How do you know it's personal? You are claiming to know his intentions on the write up. Do you? Have you read all his reports on all his analysis on players? It seems like this isn't anything of the norm for him. If you listen to that podcast I posted a page or so back (Todd McShay), he even said he's heard similar things AND that he believed that he pretty much put the words on paper that were quoted to him. McShay said his only surprise about the review was that he used the actual words from those people, and that most of them try to be polite about it or paraphrase it another way.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=NC_Skins;792160]Moon wasn't offended(a). He knew this isn't a racial issue (b), but wanted to use this as leverage for his client (c). He had no basis whatsoever to claim racism.[/quote]I don't pretend to know how Moon felt like you do in this quote.

I know Moon was offended because he said he was offended.

To claim that Moon wasn't offended(a) and that he knew this wasn't a race issue(b) is......absurd and it lets me know I would be wasting my time responding to your post any further.

HTTR

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=30gut;792189]I don't pretend to know how Moon felt like you do in this quote.

I know Moon was offended because he said he was offended.

To claim that Moon wasn't offended(a) and that he knew this wasn't a race issue(b) is......absurd and it lets me know I would be wasting my time responding to your post any further.

HTTR[/quote]

You know Moon was offended because he said he was offended? Well that settles it I guess. I guess people don't lie or bullshit the public. Nope. All of those politicians up in DC are telling you the god honest truth before and after the elections. It's not like he's not getting paid by Cam Newton one bit...oh wait. Furthermore, did Moon actually even say he was personally offended? I must have missed that from the press clippings.


Besides, explain to me how he was offended by Cam Newton's draft analysis? I did read the profile correct and it did say Cam Newton and not Warren Moon? Right? Did that review criticize all black quarterbacks? Did he somehow make a connection that Cam wouldn't be good because of his skin color?

So if somebody writes something bad about you, I can then proclaim to be offended?...lol It's that how it works now? So, can I sue people when I see them write libel and offensive things about others, even though it doesn't pertain to me? Is Moon related to him? BFFs with him? In love with him? What would cause Warren Moon to be offended by a guy he barely knows except the fact he's been hired to consult him? I believe Moon was offended about as much as OJ when he said he was out looking for the real killers of his wife.

The only way Moon doesn't know this wasn't about race if he's just a absolute dumbass. Now, Moon doesn't strike me as some dummy so I'll wager good money he in fact knows this isn't about race or he likes to make claims about shit he doesn't know the facts on, which makes him a dumbass. It's either one or the other.

edit:

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

Warren Moon is a Hall of Famer. I do not remember him calling the guy a racist or accusing racism. What he said is that he interpreted the comments as having racial undertones. Personally, I would not have made that assumption. However, I did not endure what Moon endured early in his career so I have to beleive that he sees the world through a slightly different prism. Either way, Nawrocki's "assesment" of Cam Newton does seem to be a little like a personal attack (ex: fake smile) regardless of his motivation (which is proably just his schtick to sell his opinions).

BTW- Calling a man as accomplished as Warren Moon a "dumbass" only makes you look like one. Why are you so amped? Calm down little guy.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Son Of Man;792334]BTW- Calling a man as accomplished as Warren Moon a "dumbass" only makes you look like one. Why are you so amped? Calm down little guy.[/quote]

Hey, George Bush is ten times more accomplished than Warren Moon will ever be, and yet he is one of the biggest dumbasses in the history of the US. Being accomplished doesn't exclude you from being a dumbass when it comes to your views or something you say.

Why am I amped? Because I'm sick and tired of hearing the "race card" being played at every turn when something doesn't go somebody's way. It gets very old, very fast. What this does is set back the people that actually experience real racism.

There is no need for that "little guy" comment. If you can't talk using logic and respect, then stay out of the conversation.



[quote]I do not remember him calling the guy a racist or accusing racism. What he said is that he interpreted the comments as having racial undertones[/quote]


Just to refresh your memory.

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/30/warren-moon-sees-racial-bias-regarding-cam-newton/]Warren Moon sees racial bias regarding Cam Newton | ProFootballTalk[/url]
[quote]“A lot of the criticism he’s receiving is unfortunate and racially based[/quote]

[quote]Of course there is racism in every walk of society. We’ve made a lot of progress in this country. But racism is still there. I just thought in the sports arena we were beyond it. I think the way Cam is being treated shows we’re not. . . .[/quote]

Sounds to me he's pretty much calling the guy a racist. If he's telling you the criticism is "racially based", then he's calling you a racist without actually using the word a racist.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

I really don't think people are giving Nolan Nawrocki the proper respect. He's a well respected draft analyst and he's not in the business of writing things just to sell. This isn't some moron posting some lame article on Bleacher Report.

As for Moon, loved him as a QB. Absolutely loved him. (As a person, my experience with him has been limited). But he did say that some of the questions about Cam are blatant racism.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

George Bush was the President of the United States of America. He may not have been the smartest president in history, but I would have to assume it takes a certain degree of intelligence to be leader of the free world for eight years.

I have to admit that I do not know alot about Nolan Nawrocki's work. It just seems unprofessional and uncalled for to assail someone's character the way he went after Newton's. Maybe that is just his style. However, it is a style that I do not prefer from my journalists of choice.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

I will also go on record and say that I hope Newton has the work ethic to set the league on fire. I think that QB's with the skill set of he, Vick and Tebow and the style they play add great spice to the league.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Son Of Man;792362]George Bush was the President of the United States of America. He may not have been the smartest president in history, but [B]I would have to assume it takes a certain degree of intelligence to be leader of the free world for eight years.[/B]

I have to admit that I do not know alot about Nolan Nawrocki's work. It just seems unprofessional and uncalled for to assail someone's character the way he went after Newton's. Maybe that is just his style. However, it is a style that I do not prefer from my journalists of choice.[/quote]

Actually Bush is proof that all it takes is good advisers and truckloads of money...and Monica Lewinsky.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;792341]I really don't think people are giving Nolan Nawrocki the proper respect. He's a well respected draft analyst and he's not in the business of writing things just to sell. This isn't some moron posting some lame article on Bleacher Report.

As for Moon, loved him as a QB. Absolutely loved him. (As a person, my experience with him has been limited). But he did say that some of the questions about Cam are blatant racism.[/quote]

[quote] 09:47 AM ET 04.03 | Warren Moon isn't the only person who thinks race may be a factor in the way the NFL world is perceiving Cam Newton. A high ranking NFL executive, who is white, came to the same conclusion before Moon made his comments. "If Newton were white, he'd be the first pick in the draft," he said. [unquote]

SS...any idea who that high ranking NFL executive might be?

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Longtimefan;792374][quote] 09:47 AM ET 04.03 | Warren Moon isn't the only person who thinks race may be a factor in the way the NFL world is perceiving Cam Newton. A high ranking NFL executive, who is white, came to the same conclusion before Moon made his comments. "If Newton were white, he'd be the first pick in the draft," he said. [unquote]

SS...any idea who that high ranking NFL executive might be?[/quote]

no idea

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=SmootSmack;792375][quote=Longtimefan;792374]

no idea[/quote]

I was hoping that whoever it is, they would stake claim to their assertion.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Son Of Man;792363]I will also go on record and say that I hope Newton has the work ethic to set the league on fire. I think that QB's with the skill set of he, Vick and Tebow and the style they play add great spice to the league.[/quote]

Those guys you listed are great playmakers (or were in college), but let me defer you to a Hall of Fame QB on the difference between a playmaker and a championship caliber QB.


[YT]XGiTv_xRd5A[/YT]

Steve Young's part starts around 1:00 in the video. On a side note: I'm still scratching my head why Rush (even though he's a idiot) was fired or crucified for those comments. I don't think they were that out of line. Hell, Jalen Rose's comments were 10 times worse.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Longtimefan;792374][quote] 09:47 AM ET 04.03 | Warren Moon isn't the only person who thinks race may be a factor in the way the NFL world is perceiving Cam Newton. A high ranking NFL executive, who is white, came to the same conclusion before Moon made his comments. "If Newton were white, he'd be the first pick in the draft," he said. [unquote]

SS...any idea who that high ranking NFL executive might be?[/quote]

Let me guess: some race card dropping dumbass?

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=30gut;792383]

Let me guess: some race card dropping dumbass?[/quote]

.... or some fictional quote somebody made up?

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=NC_Skins;792385].... or some fictional quote somebody made up?[/quote]

[quote=Dan Pompei]Things I Didn’t Used To Know

*Warren Moon isn’t the only person who thinks race may be a factor in the way the NFL world is perceiving Cam Newton. A high ranking NFL executive, who is white, came to the same conclusion before Moon made his comments. “If Newton were white, he’d be the first pick in the draft,” he said.[/quote]
[url=http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP-Sunday-Blitz-1492.html]NFP Sunday Blitz | National Football Post[/url]

Dan Pompei's anonymous GM is no more or less fictional then Narwocki's.

You can't have it both ways.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

What could go wrong with a playboy marrying an on again off again Girlfriend a year after skating on a second rape charge?
[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6303407]Ben Roethlisberger discusses engagement, wedding - ESPN[/url]

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=NC_Skins;792385].... or some fictional quote somebody made up?[/quote]

You really hate Cam Newton. All your posts on this thread are so angry and bitter. You need to get out and enjoy the spring weather. Cam Newton will not be a Redskin.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=30gut;792495][url=http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFP-Sunday-Blitz-1492.html]NFP Sunday Blitz | National Football Post[/url]

Dan Pompei's anonymous GM is no more or less fictional then Narwocki's.

You can't have it both ways.[/quote]

No, because other draft analysts have heard the same comments about him from people they've talked to. They just didn't put it in the write up verbatim like Nolan did. Even McShay acknowledged he heard some of the same stuff in the podcast I posted. I suggest you listen to it. McShay says he has heard everything that Nolan has heard and worse.

[url=http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/podcenter/?callsign=WTEMAM&autoplay=1&id=6281234]ESPN Radio[/url]

Who else heard this GM make this claim?


[quote=Defensewins;792525]You really hate Cam Newton. All your posts on this thread are so angry and bitter. You need to get out and enjoy the spring weather. Cam Newton will not be a Redskin.[/quote]

I don't hate Cam one bit and neither am I bitter about anything. I think he's a highly talented athlete with all the skills you could dream of having in a QB. That said, I don't think he has the attitude, intelligence, work ethic or leadership to be a franchise QB. I think he's a 4th round talent in overall QB ability, but because of the premium that the league puts on QBs, some team will draft him in the first round. I get more annoyed with fans that just want to ignore the red flags and think he'll miraculously start being some film room/gym rat who'll somehow garner the type of work ethic that Peyton Manning has since he was in Tennessee.

I apologize if I'm hating on your man crush, but I've been specific about my points and backed it up with other reports. Don't mistake being critical for hating the guy or bitter about him. I still think whoever drafts him in the first round expecting him to start right away is going to be set back 3-4 years. If they allow him to sit for 1-2 years, then it might be a different situation.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;792519]What could go wrong with a playboy marrying an on again off again Girlfriend a year after skating on a second rape charge?
[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6303407]Ben Roethlisberger discusses engagement, wedding - ESPN[/url][/quote]

The Rooneys probably told him to get married. LOL.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=Ruhskins;792547]The Rooneys probably told him to get married. LOL.[/quote]

I hope that girl doesn't think he's going to be some sort of faithful husband or what not. He'll be banging more girls than Brett Farve ever did while married.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

Maybe he could marry Tiger's X? She's already broken in for that sort of thing...

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[URL="http://www2.tbo.com/content/2011/apr/08/090102/gruden-sold-on-newtons-potential/sports-bucs/"]Gruden sold on Newton's potential[/URL]

"I think Cam Newton's the best player in the country,'' the former coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers said Friday afternoon after leading the former Auburn quarterback through passing drills at the University of South Florida. "I agree with the Heisman Trophy people that gave him the award. He's got everything I'm looking for.''


"I love being around these players,'' said Gruden. "I miss coaching, but this is as close as it gets. We've had most of the top quarterback prospects here in the last few weeks. There are three juniors, Newton, (Blaine) Gabbert and (Ryan) Mallett, who, if they had stayed in school, may be a little more polished, but these are physically talented people. I think Andy Dalton (TCU) and Jake Locker (Washington) have some real upside as well.''

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;792842][URL="http://www2.tbo.com/content/2011/apr/08/090102/gruden-sold-on-newtons-potential/sports-bucs/"]Gruden sold on Newton's potential[/URL]

"I think Cam Newton's the best player in the country,'' the former coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers said Friday afternoon after leading the former Auburn quarterback through passing drills at the University of South Florida. "I agree with the Heisman Trophy people that gave him the award. He's got everything I'm looking for.''


"I love being around these players,'' said Gruden. "I miss coaching, but this is as close as it gets. We've had most of the top quarterback prospects here in the last few weeks. There are three juniors, Newton, (Blaine) Gabbert and (Ryan) Mallett, who, if they had stayed in school, may be a little more polished, but these are physically talented people. I think Andy Dalton (TCU) and Jake Locker (Washington) have some real upside as well.''[/quote]

[url=http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81f2bb8e/article/newton-receives-grudens-endorsement-after-personal-workout?module=HP_headlines]NFL.com news: Newton receives Gruden's endorsement after personal workout[/url]

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

Gruden's blessing at the QB position isn't something I'd hang my hat on. After all, the guy got fired because he kept choosing the wrong personnel for the Buccaneers. Besides, when did Gruden become some QB guru? I must have missed that franchise QB he developed during his time with the Raiders/Buccaneers.


The guy blows smoke up people's ass. Has he ever given a bad review on anybody?

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=NC_Skins;792894]Gruden's blessing at the QB position isn't something I'd hang my hat on. After all, the guy got fired because he kept choosing the wrong personnel for the Buccaneers. Besides, when did Gruden become some QB guru? I must have missed that franchise QB he developed during his time with the Raiders/Buccaneers.


The guy blows smoke up people's ass. Has he ever given a bad review on anybody?[/quote]

His endorsement last year of Tebow was all I need to know...either he's A)hold'em the company line (4 letter) B) he's really a bad talent evaluator

His segments are cool and ill watch....his opinion on talent ill take with a grain of salt

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

[quote=NC_Skins;792894]Gruden's blessing at the QB position isn't something I'd hang my hat on. After all, the guy got fired because he kept choosing the wrong personnel for the Buccaneers. Besides, when did Gruden become some QB guru? I must have missed that franchise QB he developed during his time with the Raiders/Buccaneers.


The guy blows smoke up people's ass. Has he ever given a bad review on anybody?[/quote]

As far as developing QBs he seems to work better with veteran guys, Gannon and Johnson both had some great seasons with him.

Re: ESPN Say's Newton To Enter Draft
 

May have already been posted.....
AND I cannot find confirmation...but ESPN's NFL Live reported yesterday that Cam was at Redskins Park on Friday.