Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=htownskinfan;859823]I was going to start a new thread on this but now I dont feel like putting in the effort.Most of the bitching on this thread has been about the Shanahans,but what about Haslet?
Last yr the skins & texans were 2 of the worst if not the worst defenses in football.Skins had switched to 3-4 as we all know and it didnt work out well.
This yr the texans switch to a 3-4 with a new coach and no offseason to work on it.Theyre number 1 in the nfl on defense without their star player Mario Williams.So in less than a season Wade phillips has turned that defense around and we still suck.
Do you think its coaching? I dont see a big talent difference in the 2 teams.Or is it our offense sucks so ****ing bad the defense is not getting enough rest?[/quote]

[I]Defensively though, I think the greatest myth in Skins history is this absurd notion Shanny/Haslett have improved the defense. It's...just...effing...absurd. The average defensive units in the Williams/Blache era would have held the Dolphins to less than ten points today. I understand new fans, as in those who just "followed" Mike the Rat to DC, as believing the defense is improved. Certainly our avg at best defense (this year) is better than worst in the league (last year), so again I understand the mistake from a new fan. But for anyone who's watched this team since about '04...c'mon people denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

I soooooooo miss the Williams/Blache days of run stuffing, contain defense. With a legit FS and QB we would have been elite. Eff Shanny for setting the defense back so far.[/I]

Something I posted in the last smackdown thread. Yep Haslett is certainly part of the coaching (disaster), but still the decision to switch to a 4-3 which required a huge draft/FA investment was totally on Mike I believe.

Haslett is who he is...a motivator but not a smart or talented coach. Problem is now he's not able to consistently motivate his squad because the overall leadership situation is a quagmire.

No real surprise about the Texans though right? Shanny owes his championships to Wade as much as Elway, Davis, Sharp, Romanowski etc.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=musicmaster45;859883]Me and my dad were talking last night and he thought if we are at a top 5 pick next year shannahan will be gone and he thinks Gruden will be our coach due to the fact he has worked with Allen before in Tampa.[/quote]

Would love this scenario! I trust Allen more as our personnel guru than Shanny so we could have a more traditional FO structure w/ Gruden in here to coach/motivate.

And as GTripp has wisely argued do we really want a lame duck coach (Mike) involved in the next draft w/ so many picks at stake?

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=The Goat;859946]Would love this scenario! I trust Allen more as our personnel guru than Shanny so we could have a more traditional FO structure w/ Gruden in here to coach/motivate.

And as GTripp has wisely argued do we really want a lame duck coach (Mike) involved in the next draft w/ so many picks at stake?[/quote]

Oh geez, Gruden gobbled up quarterbacks faster than Albert Haynesworth at a burger stop and NONE of them panned out. Simms' injury might have been beyond his control, but still. At least Shanahan has Cutler as a super success.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;859949]Oh geez, Gruden gobbled up quarterbacks faster than Albert Haynesworth at a burger stop and NONE of them panned out. Simms' injury might have been beyond his control, but still. At least Shanahan has Cutler as a super success.[/quote]

Truth you speak but I don't remember Gruden having any legit talent to work w/ at QB either...maybe I'm wrong?

And I would also say Cutler is better w/o Mike.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=The Goat;859954]Truth you speak but I don't remember Gruden having any legit talent to work w/ at QB either...maybe I'm wrong?

[B]And I would also say Cutler is better w/o Mike.[/B][/quote]
Well, you are correct, Simms was their only high draft pick, and he was only a third rounder. He rolled with Garcia and Griese, two guys who developed elsewhere. Still, Gruden probably has a more undeserved reputation as some QB guru than Shanahan.

I'm sure Cutler is dreaming of 2008. Throwing to Marshall. 4500+ yard season. Only 13 sacks instead of the 30+ behind the Bears' Oline.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=The Goat;859954]Truth you speak but I don't remember Gruden having any legit talent to work w/ at QB either...maybe I'm wrong?

And I would also say Cutler is better w/o Mike.[/quote]

As I recall Gruden was not a good QB evaluator while in Tampa Bay, he had Griese, Simms, tried to get Plummer, I believe Jeff Garcia was there too and they all sucked. I think he had 7 QB during pre-season that year.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Thus far coaching has been trash but so has the qb play, the oline, the d-line when it matters, the secondary. If there is no improvements next year which results in a playoff appearance I would fire Mike and son.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=saden1;860017]Thus far coaching has been trash but so has the qb play, the oline, the d-line when it matters, the secondary. If there is no improvements next year which results in a playoff appearance I would fire Mike and son.[/quote]Well put. I wouldn't say playoffs or "off with their heads", but there needs to be a significant (4+ Win) improvement next year.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=saden1;860017]Thus far coaching has been trash but so has the qb play, the oline, the d-line when it matters, the secondary. If there is no improvements next year which results in a playoff appearance I would fire Mike and son.[/quote]

I would expect a 9-7 or 8-8 from us next year providing we get a good rookie QB. We have to revamp everything Saden, and I mean everything, even finish sorting out the WR corp for the future. Secondary and the LB corps are a mess. We need 3-4 OLs for at least depth. Just too many gaps yet to fill to make this a really solid squad.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;860101]Well put. I wouldn't say playoffs or "off with their heads", but there needs to be a significant (4+ Win) improvement next year.[/quote]

When Shanahan was hired I said he was a mediocre coach except for one or two exceptional regular seasons the last ten years. I remember Gibbs delivered his second year with what he had, which wasn't much. I don't think we should lower our expectations in the third year because if he can't succeed by then chances are he won't succeed in the 4th year.


Show me the money!

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=saden1;860240]When Shanahan was hired I said he was a mediocre coach except for one or two exceptional regular seasons the last ten years. I remember [B]Gibbs delivered his second year with what he had, which wasn't much[/B]. I don't think we should lower our expectations in the third year because if he can't succeed by then chances are he won't succeed in the 4th year.


Show me the money![/quote]

We can argue over the accuracy of this, Gibbs did inherit a franchise LT & a solid RT & decent LG, all career Skins at the time. Then signed a C & a RG. He traded for a RB & a WR. Of course, the Brunell trade too. On D, they signed a bunch of starters in 04 - Daniels, Griffin, Washington, Springs, Wynn.

Regardless of how good those guys were, let's agree on one thing: a lot of $ was spent in Gibbs' tenure to bring in free agents & trades. They signed guys like Brunell & Moss to pretty big deals. The new guys on D got nice deals too.

My point is, Gibbs built a team for the relative short-term & spent a lot of $, draft picks & cap space that impacted the team beyond his time. Of course Vinny was a part of it. While I'm an avid Gibbs fan & think he did a lot considering the dysfunctional culture/mgmt. he worked with, Allen & Shanny have made much more prudent decisions. If Gibbs were to have taken that approach when he came back, we might not've won much in 05 & 07, but the team might've been younger & cheaper when he left.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=freddyg12;860243]We can argue over the accuracy of this, Gibbs did inherit a franchise LT & a solid RT & decent LG, all career Skins at the time. Then signed a C & a RG. He traded for a RB & a WR. Of course, the Brunell trade too. On D, they signed a bunch of starters in 04 - Daniels, Griffin, Washington, Springs, Wynn.

Regardless of how good those guys were, let's agree on one thing: a lot of $ was spent in Gibbs' tenure to bring in free agents & trades. They signed guys like Brunell & Moss to pretty big deals. The new guys on D got nice deals too.

My point is, Gibbs built a team for the relative short-term & spent a lot of $, draft picks & cap space that impacted the team beyond his time. Of course Vinny was a part of it. While I'm an avid Gibbs fan & think he did a lot considering the dysfunctional culture/mgmt. he worked with, Allen & Shanny have made much more prudent decisions. If Gibbs were to have taken that approach when he came back, we might not've won much in 05 & 07, but the team might've been younger & cheaper when he left.[/quote]

It's funny. I actually thought saden was talking about Gibbs' second year of his first stint, when he won the Super Bowl

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;860244]It's funny. I actually thought saden was talking about Gibbs' second year of his first stint, when he won the Super Bowl[/quote]

If so, my bad Saden! At the same time, I see why I assumed he was talking about Gibbs II - because it's the salary cap era. I don't see where 1982-3 really can be compared to what Shanahan is faced with now. But Gibbs in 05 - Shanhan 11, yes that's worth looking at. Same ownership, same lingering cap & personel issues. I would argue that Shanny (& Allen) has taken a much more long-term approach & that is part of the reason we're going through this hell now. Whereas Gibbs, though not all his fault, continued to mortgage the future to win now.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

I'm taking about Gibbs' second stint. If Shanahan is building for the future that's great but just don't expect me to support him without expectations. I think 3 years is plenty and if he addresses the qb position next year I am willing to give him one more year. His decision to keep rex and beck has really set us back a year.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=saden1;860260]I'm taking about Gibbs' second stint. If Shanahan is building for the future that's great but just don't expect me to support him without expectations. I think 3 years is plenty and if he addresses the qb position next year I am willing to give him one more year. [B]His decision to keep rex and beck has really set us back a year.[/B][/quote]

Throw the McNabb trade, that's a two year setback methinks.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;860263]Throw the McNabb trade, that's a two year setback methinks.[/quote]

Great point!

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Will one of you experts just answer one question for me? How can it happen and is it a good thing to regress durring the rebuilding process?

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;860263]Throw the McNabb trade, that's a two year setback methinks.[/quote]

A setback due to the loss of picks, yes. Was McNabb ever thought of as "the future?" I hope not, he was a stop gap, but it turns out not even that worked out. We would still be going through much of the same unless we drafted a good QB. That's the main thing, we don't have even a developmental prospect at this point. I understand why they didn't draft one, certainly expect 2 to be picked in April.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=freddyg12;860274]A setback due to the loss of picks, yes. Was McNabb ever thought of as "the future?" I hope not, he was a stop gap, but it turns out not even that worked out. We would still be going through much of the same unless we drafted a good QB. That's the main thing, we don't have even a developmental prospect at this point. I understand why they didn't draft one, certainly expect 2 to be picked in April.[/quote]

Yeah I think we could have used that 2nd rounder on some player that would have developed last year and would be ready to contribute this year or trade down for more picks. My personal choice would have been to trade down the 2nd round a bit and get Terrence Cody, picking him up to be our NT of the future. And maybe we would not have had the need to pick up Cofield this year.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;860270]Will one of you experts just answer one question for me? How can it happen and is it a good thing to regress durring the rebuilding process?[/quote]
..........it's technical..

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;860270]Will one of you experts just answer one question for me? How can it happen and is it a good thing to regress durring the rebuilding process?[/quote]I'm no expert, but I would think any regression would be in the 1st year as player evaluations are being made and transition to a new system/philosophy, after that there shouldn't be a regression, outside of injuries.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;860180][B]I would expect a 9-7 or 8-8 from us next year providing we get a good rookie QB. [/B]We have to revamp everything Saden, and I mean everything, even finish sorting out the WR corp for the future. Secondary and the LB corps are a mess. We need 3-4 OLs for at least depth. Just too many gaps yet to fill to make this a really solid squad.[/quote]

Way too early to tell where we'll be record wise. People were saying the same thing this year and we're not getting to 8-9 wins this year.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;860270]Will one of you experts just answer one question for me? How can it happen and is it a good thing to regress durring the rebuilding process?[/quote]

My guess is that regression can happen when you stop playing vets and instead depend more on inexperienced players.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

In my opinion, this is the first year of the rebuild. I think the Shanahans thought we had more talent than we did and are starting to realize we're devoid of any real game changing players, especially on offense.

They've done a great job of changing the defense to a 3-4. They've acquired a significant amount of talent and that group has gotten much better. I expect to see similar strides made on the offensive side of the ball over the next two years.

You have to give the Shanahans the first 5 years. I love hearing fans complain about how Snyder is impatient, always just wants to spend money and 'buy' a superbowl, and doesn't run the organization the right way. He goes out and hires an Established head coach and two coordinators with impressive resumes. Along with that hires a GM that has built a team that went to a super bowl. Very few flashy FA signings, but really getting the guys that you can build around and then going deep in the draft. Now he's taking shit for keeping the guy rebuilding the team too long. This guy just can't win in DC.

We suck. But we're getting better and a lot of talent. I'm happy with the direction of the team. I'll gladly suffer through a few miserable years to be contending for the division every year for the next 7-10 years.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Daseal;860305]In my opinion, this is the first year of the rebuild. I think the Shanahans thought we had more talent than we did and are starting to realize we're devoid of any real game changing players, especially on offense.

They've done a great job of changing the defense to a 3-4. They've acquired a significant amount of talent and that group has gotten much better. I expect to see similar strides made on the offensive side of the ball over the next two years.

You have to give the Shanahans the first 5 years. I love hearing fans complain about how Snyder is impatient, always just wants to spend money and 'buy' a superbowl, and doesn't run the organization the right way. He goes out and hires an Established head coach and two coordinators with impressive resumes. Along with that hires a GM that has built a team that went to a super bowl. Very few flashy FA signings, but really getting the guys that you can build around and then going deep in the draft. Now he's taking shit for keeping the guy rebuilding the team too long. This guy just can't win in DC.

We suck. But we're getting better and a lot of talent. I'm happy with the direction of the team. [B][U]I'll gladly suffer through a few miserable years to be contending for the division every year for the next 7-10 years[/U][/B].[/quote]


Great post!! Im sooooooooo with ya, i just hope it pays off.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

I love it how the Shannahans and some uninformed fans placed all of the blame on DM5 last year. Now that he's gone the team has almost hit rock-bottom. Do you think Rex or Beck could lead us to victory against Cutler, Rogers, Romo, Vick? Nope, but DM5 sure did last year, with no running game, awful line, along with a defense that ranked dead last. However that didn't stop the lynch mob from calling for his head.

The fact of the matter is Shannahan has lost his mojo. Pat Bowlen realized that after a decade of mediocrity in Denver. I can't wait until this guy is toast. I don't want him or Kyle coming anywhere near our next Franchise QB. This is the same guy who said he'd stake his reputation on the fact that Beck and Rex can play.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Shadowbyte;860308]I love it how the Shannahans and some uninformed fans placed all of the blame on DM5 last year. Now that he's gone the team has almost hit rock-bottom. Do you think Rex or Beck could lead us to victory against Cutler, Rogers, Romo, Vick? Nope, but DM5 sure did last year, with no running game, awful line, along with a defense that ranked dead last. However that didn't stop the lynch mob from calling for his head.

The fact of the matter is Shannahan has lost his mojo. Pat Bowlen realized that after a decade of mediocrity in Denver. I can't wait until this guy is toast. I don't want him or Kyle coming anywhere near our next Franchise QB. This is the same guy who said he'd stake his reputation on the fact that Beck and Rex can play.[/quote]

Sharp post!! I'm not sure if McNabb was going to take us anywhere, but you're exactly correct things have only gotten worse since egomaniac Mike threw McNabb, one of the most respected players in the league, under the bus.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

Of course, I guess we're all forgetting how strong our run game was against the Eagles and Bears last year and Hall's plays against the Cowboys and Bears

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Shadowbyte;860308]I love it how the Shannahans and some uninformed fans placed all of the blame on DM5 last year. Now that he's gone the team has almost hit rock-bottom. Do you think Rex or Beck could lead us to victory against Cutler, Rogers, Romo, Vick? Nope, but DM5 sure did last year, with no running game, awful line, along with a defense that ranked dead last. However that didn't stop the lynch mob from calling for his head.

The fact of the matter is Shannahan has lost his mojo. Pat Bowlen realized that after a decade of mediocrity in Denver. I can't wait until this guy is toast. I don't want him or Kyle coming anywhere near our next Franchise QB. This is the same guy who said he'd stake his reputation on the fact that Beck and Rex can play.[/quote]
Is this by chance the same DM that currently resides as bench savior to a rookie QB?

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Shadowbyte;860308]I love it how the Shannahans and some uninformed fans placed all of the blame on DM5 last year. Now that he's gone the team has almost hit rock-bottom. Do you think Rex or Beck could lead us to victory against Cutler, Rogers, Romo, Vick? Nope, but DM5 sure did last year, with no running game, awful line, along with a defense that ranked dead last. However that didn't stop the lynch mob from calling for his head.

The fact of the matter is Shannahan has lost his mojo. Pat Bowlen realized that after a decade of mediocrity in Denver. I can't wait until this guy is toast. I don't want him or Kyle coming anywhere near our next Franchise QB. This is the same guy who said he'd stake his reputation on the fact that Beck and Rex can play.[/quote]

Exactly, Shanny thought Beck could be a franchise type QB? He thought Kyle could be an alchemist and turn a common rock into pure gold. I am willing to give Shanny two more years to get a respectable team going, but to be honest if I had to bet on it, I would bet he doesn't get it done. Too many holes to fill first of all, and Next he just might not be such a great coach.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Hog1;860328]Is this by chance the same DM that currently resides as bench savior to a rookie QB?[/quote]

That same fate was shared by two of our SB winning Qbs, so that doesn't mean anything. Donovan last season was still way better than either bum we have under center this season. Donovan just lost his mojo, just like Shanny probably has.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;860343]That same fate was shared by two of our SB winning Qbs, so that doesn't mean anything. Donovan last season was still way better than either bum we have under center this season. Donovan just lost his mojo, just like Shanny probably has.[/quote]

The fact he was benched for a rookie, and is being outplayed by said rookie makes your point null and invalid. Try again.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

I still can't remember when Shanahan hyped up Beck to be any sort of franchise QB

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;860343][B]That same fate was shared by two of our SB winning Qbs, so that doesn't mean anything.[/B] Donovan last season was still way better than either bum we have under center this season. Donovan just lost his mojo, just like Shanny probably has.[/quote]

Really? So your saying the DM is just biding his time preparing for a carefully timed renaissance and return to glory?

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;860345]I still can't remember when Shanahan hyped up Beck to be any sort of franchise QB[/quote]

Any reference to same would probably have been ShanaSpeak as he seems to take particular joy in F..n with the media and feeding the fans whatever is convenient for him.
Which I find kind of rewarding and yet amusing with the speed people jump on his rhetoric....
Joe did the same thing but it all sounded the same...Super Smart..

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;860344]The fact he was benched for a rookie, and is being outplayed by said rookie makes your point null and invalid. Try again.[/quote]

Rypien went to shit after he won us the SB, and Doug Williams lost his mojo also. The point isn't null at all. If you got treated like dirt like MS and the Skins treated Donovan, you might lose your mojo as well, or Donovan just hit the wall, like Ryp and Doug. Either way NC, my last sentence in my post stands. Donovan last season was way better than Rex or John this season.

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;860345]I still can't remember when Shanahan hyped up Beck to be any sort of franchise QB[/quote]

I think the last time I heard it was about 3 minutes before Mike benched Beck lol!!

Re: What's your take on our coaching?
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;860101]Well put. I wouldn't say playoffs or "off with their heads", but there needs to be [B]a significant (4+ Win) improvement[/B] next year.[/quote]I think this is a good, easily identifiable baseline.

Now, I'm thinking that 8-8 or 9-7 next year probably doesn't do anything to make me feel better on the Shanahan hire: pretty much anyone with common sense can build an average football team in three years. The draft order basically does that for you. But I think that improvement would mean the Redskins are (finally) on the right track. With how soft the schedule has been this year, there's no way for this team to get to 8 wins without dramatically improving the team over the next offseason.