Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=SmootSmack;874154]Are we talking like 11 year old Tebow over 11 year old Manning?[/quote]
I am talking 21 year old Manning and 21 year old Tebow. Infact I am taking a 21 year old Tebow over a 21 year old Manning and a 21 year old Walter Payton.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=Paintrain;874187]The reality is that there are about 15-18 "Roy Helu" type backs in the NFL. It probably speaks more to how pathetic and slow our skill position players have been that we are wowed by his play. A fair comparison would be an in his prime Jerious Norwood. Would anyone here give up 2nd and 4th round picks for Norwood? Exactly.[/quote]

Nope, you're wrong. Roy Helu was a special running back in college as well. I like to discredit our players too, don't get me wrong... But you chose the wrong guy.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=Mechanix544;874168]Robert Griffin III stats the last four years

TD Passes - 78
INT's - 17

......with a completion percentage of 67.2%, and lets not forget he doesnt really have any all world receivers on that squad................. Just imagine that guy rolling out on bootlegs for the burgandy and gold, and zipping passes to a sober Fred Davis......imagne him pulling it down, and sprinting past the slow OLB that is shadowing him.

He is plenty accurate. Plenty enough for our squad, who has been absolutely laughable the last decade at the position. Finally, we are in a position where it is feasible to go up and get "THE GUY", but people want to roll with, and pardon me while I gag, Matt 7th round phenom Flynn, or another season of turnover machine Rex Grossman? I don't even want Grossman as a backup, I dont want any youngsters on the squad maybe picking up his horrid tendancies. Lets do what it takes to get RG3 in here, and see where it goes.[/quote]

RG3 is going to be a pro bowler, I don't think anyone is questioning that unless they just haven't watched him play. If Bruce and Mike are too scared too pony up for the 2nd/3rd pick, we're in trouble.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;874218]I am talking 21 year old Manning and 21 year old Tebow. Infact I am taking a 21 year old Tebow over a 21 year old Manning and a 21 year old Walter Payton.[/quote]

I think in yesterday's you saw the best that TT can give you so there isnt more upside. At 21 Manning still had a ton of upside.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

I'd take a 21 year old Peyton Manning and sign him to a 20 year deal and be done with the QB situation for a long time. I don't even get where TO Killa is coming from there. TT is an ok QB and a great man. Peyton is a good man and GREAT QB, I don't even get where there is a comparison.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=IrMitchell;874222]Nope, you're wrong. Roy Helu was a special running back in college as well. I like to discredit our players too, don't get me wrong... But you chose the wrong guy.[/quote]

Wasn't really trying to discredit him, just saying he's not a player that other teams are drooling over. I think he's a very nice complimentary back but he's not going to be a top 5-10 back in the league. I'd love for him to develop into such, but I'm not sure that's his game.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=irish;874224]I think in yesterday's you saw the best that TT can give you so there isnt more upside. At 21 Manning still had a ton of upside.[/quote]

Even if that is his ceiling, 316 passing yards, 3 total TDs, and the highest QBR in a playoff game in 4 years ain't too shabby.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

I'll take Manning with a bad neck over tebow in the nfl, any. day. of . the . week.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=GMScud;874260]Even if that is his ceiling, 316 passing yards, 3 total TDs, and the highest QBR in a playoff game in 4 years ain't too shabby.[/quote]


Once those stats are put into the right context , no I would'nt take him.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=GMScud;874260]Even if that is his ceiling, 316 passing yards, 3 total TDs, and the highest QBR in a playoff game in 4 years ain't too shabby.[/quote]

He completed less than 50% of his passes (10/21) and those 3TDs were 3 of the maybe 7 good balls he threw all night. I cant take anything away from him as he did what he had to do to win the game but I'd be surprised if he's starting at the end of next season.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

If I recall correctly we originally wanted to trade for Vick but DMc was offered and we took him or something like that. IMO in time RGIII will become a bigger & better Vick speed, agility, & accuracy he has all those pieces. I would like to see st. lou trade us Bradford but I'll roll with RGIII.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=SmootSmack;874154]Are we talking like 11 year old Tebow over 11 year old Manning?[/quote]

Lets see. One is already 5'4 120 pounds that can chuck it 20 yards but the other is a 5'5 140 pound tank that runs a blazing 5.0 40. The former however is reading at an 8th grade level and is already taking pre-Algebra.

It's like Sophies choice.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;873811]Flynn for a 5 year 35 Million

RG3 - Trade picks to get him[/quote]That's more then I would be willing to pay Flynn.

How much compensation are you talking in your scenario to trade up for RGIII?

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=Paintrain;874244]Wasn't really trying to discredit him, just saying he's not a player that other teams are drooling over. I think he's a very nice complimentary back but he's not going to be a top 5-10 back in the league. I'd love for him to develop into such, but I'm not sure that's his game.[/quote]

Great RBs are a "nice to have" anyway. Not a necessity. Just need a credible running game, which we should have with the RBs already on the roster.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

Cap wise we're in great shape, what does anyone care about what someone like Flynn could get?

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=Mattyk;874396]Cap wise we're in great shape, what does anyone care about what someone like Flynn could get?[/quote]

I agree. And it's more important to understand what is guaranteed and the cap impact vs. dismissing something like $35mil over 5 years out of hand. Contracts aren't guaranteed in the NFL. Plus, aren't we way under the cap? Who's the high paid "talent" on the roster these days with Portis and Haynesworth gone? Our QBs have got to be the cheapest in the league right now.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=Mattyk;874396]Cap wise we're in great shape, what does anyone care about what someone like Flynn could get?[/quote]

To me the only issue is that you can't pay Flynn mad money to sit on the bench. In a year or two the cap will catch up. This makes it an either/or between having Flynn with mad money or having a grade A rookie.

Otherwise, yeah, if Danny wants to pay him, pay him.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=Mattyk;874396]Cap wise we're in great shape, what does anyone care about what someone like Flynn could get?[/quote]Well, you're not in great cap shape [B]after[/B] you sign Matt Flynn. You're making a two or three year commitment to a guy at the QB position, and then either you've solved the issue (yay!) or you're paying double money to the QB position in Year 4 not to have Flynn on the team.

Plus, who the heck is going to want this job in 2013 if we're stuck with an ineffective Flynn on the roster? Gotta think about the future as well.

The other thing is I think the good-ness of the Cap Situation is overstated. I was looking at this today is that while the Redskins have a decent amount of money to spend ($20-$25 million or so), there aren't a lot of good contracts (I'd say Orakpo has a pretty team friendly contract through 2013) on the team, and a lot of key guys are UFAs this year and next year. It won't hurt so much to get away from Jammal Brown...that deal appears to be made with the risk of failure in mind.

Plus that available money is a bit deceiving because of the QB position. If you add Flynn to the mix, it's considerably tighter. Basically, you don't have the financial flexibility to sign Flynn, give him one season, and then be wrong and cut him, and then still be in good cap shape.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

I don't think we go after Flynn anyway, and it's yet to be seen what his price will be. But if Shanahan thinks he's his guy, then I say by all means go for it. You can't sit around wringing your hands worrying about what may or may not be. A rookie QB is certainly no guarantee either, plus he's going to cost you a draft pick to boot.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=GMScud;874260]Even if that is his ceiling, 316 passing yards, 3 total TDs, and the highest QBR in a playoff game in 4 years ain't too shabby.[/quote]

Agreed, and I think it's premature to judge what his ceiling is yet. Steve Young early on in his career was a 50% passer and developed into one of the more accurate QBs in league history. Gotta give the kid time.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=Mattyk;874433]I don't think we go after Flynn anyway, and it's yet to be seen what his price will be. But if Shanahan thinks he's his guy, then I say by all means go for it. You can't sit around wringing your hands worrying about what may or may not be. A rookie QB is certainly no guarantee either, plus he's going to cost you a draft pick to boot.[/quote]Can you imagine trying to sell Matt Flynn to your owner a year after selling Beck and Grossman as two guys you can count on? I mean, here's a guy who is less accomplished than Grossman.

That would be the punchline of the Snyder era. I know generally you don't want the owner to meddle in the personnel decisions, but I don't see how you could get the check-writer to sign off on that without tranquilizers.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=GTripp0012;874438]Can you imagine trying to sell Matt Flynn to your owner a year after selling Beck and Grossman as two guys you can count on? I mean, here's a guy who is less accomplished than Grossman.

That would be the punchline of the Snyder era. I know generally you don't want the owner to meddle in the personnel decisions, but I don't see how you could get the check-writer to sign off on that without tranquilizers.[/quote]

Grossman never threw for 480 yards and 6 TDs in one game, and he's had a heck of a lot more opportunities... just saying.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=Mattyk;874434]Agreed, and I think it's premature to judge what his ceiling is yet. Steve Young early on in his career was a 50% passer and developed into one of the more accurate QBs in league history. Gotta give the kid time.[/quote]

I agree to an extent. Problem is that they've been trying to fix his mechanics since he got in the league with little to show for it. The guy is obviously very athletically talented and through shear athleticwill/ ability at times can overcome poor mechanics but in the long run his mechanics are going to limit his overall success unless he miraculously becomes more coachable in that regard. Once the league really gets a book on him the one-trick pony act, as good as it can be, won't be enough.

In any case I'd love to see them make a good run because for all the crap he gets he is a good guy and isn't a total QB loss like so many believe.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=GTripp0012;874438]Can you imagine trying to sell Matt Flynn to your owner a year after selling Beck and Grossman as two guys you can count on? I mean, here's a guy who is less accomplished than Grossman.

That would be the punchline of the Snyder era. I know generally you don't want the owner to meddle in the personnel decisions, but I don't see how you could get the check-writer to sign off on that without tranquilizers.[/quote]


So you'd rather him (snyder) sign off on a guy who's never taken a single snap in NFL or attended one camp, yet pay him even more money as well as costing a draft pick?

You were saying?...lol

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=FRPLG;874452]I agree to an extent. Problem is that they've been trying to fix his mechanics since he got in the league with little to show for it. The guy is obviously very athletically talented and through shear athleticwill/ ability at times can overcome poor mechanics but in the long run his mechanics are going to limit his overall success unless he miraculously becomes more coachable in that regard. Once the league really gets a book on him the one-trick pony act, as good as it can be, won't be enough.

In any case I'd love to see them make a good run because for all the crap he gets he is a good guy and isn't a total QB loss like so many believe.[/quote]

Yeah I agree his mechanics are a concern, but I think with time he can overcome them or at least compensate for them. With experience he can get better. And if we've learned anything about him so far, don't count him out.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=NC_Skins;874454]So you'd rather him (snyder) sign off on a guy who's never taken a single snap in NFL or attended one camp, yet pay him even more money as well as costing a draft pick?

You were saying?...lol[/quote]

I thought you weren't a fan of the idea of signing him?

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=Mattyk;874457]Yeah I agree his mechanics are a concern, but I think with time he can overcome them or at least compensate for them. With experience he can get better. And if we've learned anything about him so far, don't count him out.[/quote]

That's mostly where I am at. I do think long term he is going to be sorta a flash in the pain. Watching his mechanics it's hard to see how he could fix it all. It's an abortion....but he has showed us that he makes crap happen...and that counts for something. So he can't be counted out.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=FRPLG;874460]That's mostly where I am at. I do think long term he is going to be sorta a flash in the pain. Watching his mechanics it's hard to see how he could fix it all. It's an abortion....but he has showed us that he makes crap happen...and that counts for something. So he can't be counted out.[/quote]

Did you mean aberration?

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

No I meant an abortion...his mechanics are that bad.

Sorry for the bad taste there.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=Mattyk;874458]I thought you weren't a fan of the idea of signing him?[/quote]


I'm not so much (well, depending on the amount). Merely questioning Tripp's logic on this.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=Mattyk;874458]I thought you weren't a fan of the idea of signing him?[/quote]

Forgot the thread you posed this question, but I meant to answer it. Been away for the past week.


Would I be ok with signing Flynn and drafting a developmental QB in the draft.



See, there are two issues I have with the "signing flynn" portion of this.

1) Is he even better than the guys we have?

2) What type of coin is he wanting?


Flynn was graded as a low end QB, in the draft, based on his skills and collegiate performance. I personally think the guy has just flourished in the current system he's in and will most likely end up being the type of QB he was graded as. (low end) That's just my opinion. He very well could be the next coming of Tom Brady, but you won't know that until he plays in another system with different players.

I would be fine with bringing Flynn in only if the contract was modest and he actually beat the competition in training camp. I'm not willing to say "let's bring this guy in as the unquestioned starter".

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

I think we should bring in flynn, because of the sudden weakness of QB's in this years class. I think we should sign flynn to a what look likes a lengthy deal, but really is a 2-3 year guaranteed money deal, with the other years like 4-6 being an option which we our he could get out of without much of a cap hit.

During those 2-3 years we have him we, obviously, draft our future QB, whether thats Foles Tannehill this year, or Barkley, Wilson, Glennon, Logan Thomas, Renner, whoever next year.

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;874471]Forgot the thread you posed this question, but I meant to answer it. Been away for the past week.


Would I be ok with signing Flynn and drafting a developmental QB in the draft.



See, there are two issues I have with the "signing flynn" portion of this.

1) Is he even better than the guys we have?

2) What type of coin is he wanting?


Flynn was graded as a low end QB, in the draft, based on his skills and collegiate performance. I personally think the guy has just flourished in the current system he's in and will most likely end up being the type of QB he was graded as. (low end) That's just my opinion. He very well could be the next coming of Tom Brady, but you won't know that until he plays in another system with different players.

I would be fine with bringing Flynn in only if the contract was modest and he actually beat the competition in training camp. I'm not willing to say "let's bring this guy in as the unquestioned starter".[/QUOTE]


Agreed

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=NC_Skins;874454]So you'd rather him (snyder) sign off on a guy who's never taken a single snap in NFL or attended one camp, yet pay him even more money as well as costing a draft pick?

You were saying?...lol[/quote]I think your logic is broken. I can't think of anywhere in the draft it would cost more money to sign the pick than it would to add Matt Flynn. Maybe first overall would be close. I'd have to look it up.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;874472]I think we should bring in flynn, because of the sudden weakness of QB's in this years class. I think we should sign flynn to a what look likes a lengthy deal, but really is a 2-3 year guaranteed money deal, with the other years like 4-6 being an option which we our he could get out of without much of a cap hit.

During those 2-3 years we have him we, obviously, draft our future QB, whether thats Foles Tannehill this year, or Barkley, Wilson, Glennon, Logan Thomas, Renner, whoever next year.[/quote]

Drafting Barkley next year would most likely suggest we would have a top pick again or would bet the farm to trade up. Barkley is going to go high next year. Probably #1 overall if I had to guess.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=GTripp0012;874438]Can you imagine trying to sell Matt Flynn to your owner a year after selling Beck and Grossman as two guys you can count on? I mean, here's a guy who is less accomplished than Grossman.

That would be the punchline of the Snyder era. I know generally you don't want the owner to meddle in the personnel decisions, but I don't see how you could get the check-writer to sign off on that without tranquilizers.[/quote]

I guess I'm the clueless one. Cause I see a huge selling point.... the fact Flynn has not been cut or fired from any organization, the fact he has had stability at coaching, the fact he has played in only a couple or few games and managed them well with out throwing INT's like Grossman and Beck. He has not been on the field that much taking hits so he's relatively healthy. and he's proven he can be accurate and has a strong arm.

What did I miss?

Oh..... he has not taken a team to a SB.

I still want the Skins to draft a Rookie and whoever plays better gets the job, I just want Grossman and Beck gone.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=FRPLG;874452]I agree to an extent. [B]Problem is that they've been trying to fix his mechanics since he got in the league with little to show for it.[/B] The guy is obviously very athletically talented and through shear athleticwill/ ability at times can overcome poor mechanics but in the long run his mechanics are going to limit his overall success unless he miraculously becomes more coachable in that regard. Once the league really gets a book on him the one-trick pony act, as good as it can be, won't be enough.

In any case I'd love to see them make a good run because for all the crap he gets he is a good guy and isn't a total QB loss like so many believe.[/quote]

Sometimes teams need to overlook some flaws and just play to the players talents. Bret Favre was traded away from the Falcons because they couldn't "fix" his throwing motion. Green Bay tried to "fix" it then just gave up and told him to play. Look what Bret did for them.

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=NC_Skins;874471]Forgot the thread you posed this question, but I meant to answer it. Been away for the past week.


Would I be ok with signing Flynn and drafting a developmental QB in the draft.



See, there are two issues I have with the "signing flynn" portion of this.

1) Is he even better than the guys we have?

2) What type of coin is he wanting?


Flynn was graded as a low end QB, in the draft, based on his skills and collegiate performance. I personally think the guy has just flourished in the current system he's in and will most likely end up being the type of QB he was graded as. (low end) That's just my opinion. He very well could be the next coming of Tom Brady, but you won't know that until he plays in another system with different players.

I would be fine with bringing Flynn in only if the contract was modest and he actually beat the competition in training camp. I'm not willing to say "let's bring this guy in as the unquestioned starter".[/quote]


Let me try to help out with your issues here:


1. Is he better than Beck and Grossman? He is clearly better than Beck even though Flynn has only been in a handful of games. I think he is better than Grossman because he has not shown any proclivity to turn the ball over with INTs or fumbles. Grossman does that about twice a game...


2. What type of coin is he wanting? The answer is very simple. He wants as much as his agent can squeeze out of a team. If there are multiple teams that want his services, that can lead to a bidding war; if there is only one interested "buyer" for his services, then the single buyer has a ton of leverage. My guess is that he gets a fat deal...

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

[quote=Mattyk;874434]Agreed, and I think it's premature to judge what his ceiling is yet. Steve Young early on in his career was a 50% passer and developed into one of the more accurate QBs in league history. Gotta give the kid time.[/quote]Funny thing I heard ESPN Mike/Mike talking about Tebow's comp% and Greenie mentioned Eli Manning comp% as a rook.

It reminded me of a post I had in another forum:
4 sub-50% comp QBs in this first 8(ish) starts that turned out to be pretty good:Elway, Bledsoe, McNabb, Eli Manning-
2 have won a SB, 3 have been to the SB, and all are multiple pro-bowlers:
(Never mind the wins and the 9 rushing TDs and the 615 rushing yards and the 1st downs that go along with those yards)

Tebow:
46.9 comp % 1,363 yards 12 TDs 4 INTs 79.8 QB rating
(these stats haven't been updated since Nov.19th)

Theirs:
12 starts 49.1% 948 yards 8 TDs 7 INTs 5.9 YPA 77.8 QB rating
13 starts 49.9% 2494 yards 15 TDs 15 INTs 5.8 YPA 65.0 QB rating
9 starts 48.2% 1043 yards 6 TDs 9 INTs 5.3 YPA 55.4 QB rating
11 starts 47.5 1663 yards 7 TDs 14 INTs 6.4 YPA 54.9 QB rating

Re: The "Inside Word" on the QB Search
 

Everyone on that list but Eli had their formative years prior to the passing explosion of the middle of the decade. And Eli was kind of a rare bird. He was accurate in college, but couldn't drive the football at all his first four-ish years in the league. Really looked like a bust. Since then, he's had no problem throwing the ball accurately to any part of the field.

Eli will still have days where he can't keep the ball from diving every which way on him, but for the most part he throws one of the better footballs in the league. It's clear now that the fluke was the early part of his career.

I wouldn't be shocked if Tebow developed into one of the more accurate passers in the league. Right now, he has a comfort issue from the pocket. If the pocket and throwing lanes are clean, Tebow drives the football really well. If he's about to take a hit, he loses focus and strides away from the target, and the ball comes out erratically.