Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=biffle;896741]Anyone wanna bet that they put out the punishment at 3.6 mil tomorrow and blame the reports on a misplaced decimal?[/quote]

I'll take that action. This will not be resolved or altered tomorrow.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=SBXVII;896754]But your talking about a league that looked at a trade scenario and said no you can't do it. They didn't approve it and later cry foul.

The NFL had every opportunity to contact both teams and say "you can't do that" or reject the contracts/deals that were made. But they didn't. They approved them and now later the other teams are crying fould cause they don't have as much money to spend and now they want the NFL to penalize both teams in order to make them competative with the Skins and Cowboys. You can't do that.

By the way, the CBA had expired. What they had basically was a gentlemans agreement if you'd call it that and the league approved the deals.[/quote]Even though they approved it, that doesn't mean they can't hit back later if the new CBA stipulates they can, or more accurately, if the new CBA doesn't prohibit them for doing so.

The big issues here are that: 1) this penalty is being applied very inconsistently and 2) NFL teams attempted to collude.

I'll give you an example of something they did put in the new CBA: they took out the poison pill-contract guarantee. That was collectively bargained. No one put a poison pill contract in during the uncapped year BECAUSE teams were colluding (and had been for years). But also because they feared retribution.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[url=http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/Redskins-Statement-On-Salary-Cap-Reports/eeac9018-20f8-4796-90d8-a291ccfb66d6]Redskins Statement On Salary Cap Reports[/url]

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=That Guy;896767]sounds fair to me, as long as i get a slice.[/quote]

Yeah a 30% of the pie slice AHAHAHAHAAHA. Being Commissioner is GREATTTTTTTTTTTT!

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;896766]OK been out for a few( new baby boy) so what's the latest on this cap crap?[/quote]

Congratulations, Dad!

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon;896774]Congratulations, Dad![/QUOTE]

Thanks man

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=dirtbag59;896737]lol, i'm never committing a crime with you.[/quote]

lol.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

JeffxKills
Roger Goodell ‏ @RogerGoodell
Just kidding, Redskins and Cowboys. That fine was meant for James Harrison.
5 fans like this.
1 Hour Ago · Unlike · Reply · Flag

In all seriousness I'm hearing, and seeing, on NFL Network and NFL.com no mention of the story. Hard to believe though that Adam S would get and then report bad information.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=JWsleep;896740]Also, anyone know who is on this committee currently? Mara chairs it, but that's all I know.

Management Council Executive Committee

They made the decision, apparently.[/quote]

Not sure who's on it these days. Know Jerry Richardson, Al Davis, and Mark Murphy were on it. Obviously one of them no longer is

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=GTripp0012;896770]Even though they approved it, that doesn't mean they can't hit back later if the new CBA stipulates they can, or more accurately, if the new CBA doesn't prohibit them for doing so.

The big issues here are that: 1) this penalty is being applied very inconsistently and 2) NFL teams attempted to collude.

I'll give you an example of something they did put in the new CBA: they took out the poison pill-contract guarantee. That was collectively bargained. No one put a poison pill contract in during the uncapped year BECAUSE teams were colluding (and had been for years). But also because they feared retribution.[/quote]

I disagree. I think you're, at best, on shaky ground when you try to punish people for something that was perfectly within the rules when it was done.

I agree that something that makes it even harder is that they're in effect trying to punish the Redskins and Cowboys for not going along with what was really an illegal policy.

I think the other element here is that all the parties that have decided to punish these teams (The other teams and NFLPA) stand to personally gain from the process. Imagine if a state started paying jurors more for every guilty verdict, how quickly those sentences would get thrown out.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=SmootSmack;896783]Not sure who's on it these days. Know Jerry Richardson, Al Davis, and Mark Murphy were on it. Obviously one of them no longer is[/quote]

Aw, poor Jerry Richardson. Needed more time to focus on running the Panthers huh?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=That Guy;896767]sounds fair to me, as long as i get a slice.[/quote]

I'm giving everybody on this board 1.6 slices of Matty's cake.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;896728]What does The trade have to do with this?[/quote]

It's simple. Right now we've got all our hopes on ONE guy. How were they going to improve the team this year? Free agency. Well that's somewhat out the window. IMO one guy can't do it. I'm getting my picks...that will give me both of Cleveland's number 1's this year, maybe a second this year and a one next year. That's 4 young guys that I can build around and add to the mix.

Instead we've can't spend in free agency, which probably isn't a good idea anyway cause it never works, and we've got no high draft picks the next couple of years. Sorry but I'm taking option one. I know it's not going to happen but still, that's what I'd do.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;896766]OK been out for a few( new baby boy) so what's the latest on this cap crap?[/quote]

Congrats man!

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/12/league-explains-cap-adjustment-by-pointing-to-competitive-balance/]League explains cap adjustment by pointing to “competitive balance” | ProFootballTalk[/url]

League explains cap adjustment by pointing to “competitive balance”

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=skinsfan69;896793]It's simple. Right now we've got all our hopes on ONE guy. How were they going to improve the team this year? Free agency. Well that's somewhat out the window. IMO one guy can't do it. I'm getting my picks...that will give me both of Cleveland's number 1's this year, maybe a second this year and a one next year. That's 4 young guys that I can build around and add to the mix.

Instead we've can't spend in free agency, which probably isn't a good idea anyway cause it never works, and we've got no high draft picks the next couple of years. Sorry but I'm taking option one. I know it's not going to happen but still, that's what I'd do.[/quote]

We still have cap space and great cap guys. Free agency isn't done for us.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;896766]OK been out for a few( new baby boy) so what's the latest on this cap crap?[/quote]

Wow congrats man. You are one determined skins fan coming back on this site right after having a kid!

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=biffle;896785]I disagree. I think you're, at best, on shaky ground when you try to punish people for something that was perfectly within the rules when it was done.

I agree that something that makes it even harder is that they're in effect trying to punish the Redskins and Cowboys for not going along with what was really an illegal policy.

I think the other element here is that all the parties that have decided to punish these teams (The other teams and NFLPA) stand to personally gain from the process. Imagine if a state started paying jurors more for every guilty verdict, how quickly those sentences would get thrown out.[/quote]At the time, I think it was understood by teams that even though there was no cap in 2010, there would be a good chance that teams would not know the full extent of how deals signed in 2010 would be treated by the new CBA; that those effects would need to be collectively bargained.

What is unclear is whether these penalties are a result of something the NFL and NFLPA agreed to in writing, or whether they just agreed to it within the last week. And, per the language of the CBA (which I have not read), maybe they can actually do this at any time. But the role of the NFLPA in this disaster sure makes it look like that these sanctions have been collectively bargained.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Frost;896796][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/12/league-explains-cap-adjustment-by-pointing-to-competitive-balance/]League explains cap adjustment by pointing to “competitive balance” | ProFootballTalk[/url]

League explains cap adjustment by pointing to “competitive balance”[/quote]

We sure lead the pack and are on pace for several more Lombardis right?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

The.Nonsense Frontrunner League is horse shit and goodell can kiss my ass, as well as I the rest of the crybaby owners

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=GTripp0012;896805]At the time, I think it was understood by teams that even though there was no cap in 2010, there would be a good chance that teams would not know the full extent of how deals signed in 2010 would be treated by the new CBA; that those effects would need to be collectively bargained.

What is unclear is whether these penalties are a result of something the NFL and NFLPA agreed to in writing, or whether they just agreed to it within the last week. And, per the language of the CBA (which I have not read), maybe they can actually do this at any time. But the role of the NFLPA in this disaster sure makes it look like that these sanctions have been collectively bargained.[/quote]

By everything I've seen and read, there was absolutely nothing written that made it outside the rules. And I don't care if it's collectively bargained. You still can't go back and punish someone two years later for playing within the rules. I mean, I hate the Patriots, but if the NFL went back now and said "You know what? That Tuck rule was bad. We're going to eliminate it retroactively and take away your Lombardi Trophy" people would be understandably incensed, and it wouldn't stand.

And again, the league essentially paid off the union to sign off on this, so their approval of this means less than nothing.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

I'm convinced this is a shrewd move by the NFL to improve future player safety. A few more moves like this and they'll start losing enough fans to keep this league going.

[img]http://i.qkme.me/36kbt6.jpg[/img]

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;896803]Wow congrats man. You are one determined skins fan coming back on this site right after having a kid![/quote]

Are you kidding? Between the Griff trade, the start of Free Agency and this cap mess, I'm surprised he went to the hospital at all. :silly:

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=skinsfan69;896793]It's simple. Right now we've got all our hopes on ONE guy. How were they going to improve the team this year? Free agency. Well that's somewhat out the window. IMO one guy can't do it. I'm getting my picks...that will give me both of Cleveland's number 1's this year, maybe a second this year and a one next year. That's 4 young guys that I can build around and add to the mix.

Instead we've can't spend in free agency, which probably isn't a good idea anyway cause it never works, and we've got no high draft picks the next couple of years. Sorry but I'm taking option one. I know it's not going to happen but still, that's what I'd do.[/quote]
Here's a thought, quit bitching about the trade.. You don't like it, we get it but it's done so get over it. We aren't now going to trade with Cleveland, that's just moronic to even conceive and communicate it like it's anything that someone with more than a third grade education would consider.

This sky is falling BS because of this news is just that, BS. I'm sure the powers that be are working on all options to improve this team thru free agency, even if the $36 million penalty sticks. We will spend in free agency, we have 20, TWENTY picks over the next three years and we will see an improvement BESIDES the 'one player' who you seem to be obsessing over.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=biffle;896808]By everything I've seen and read, there was absolutely nothing written that made it outside the rules. And I don't care if it's collectively bargained. You still can't go back and punish someone two years later for playing within the rules. I mean, I hate the Patriots, but if the NFL went back now and said "You know what? That Tuck rule was bad. We're going to eliminate it retroactively and take away your Lombardi Trophy" people would be understandably incensed, and it wouldn't stand.

And again, the league essentially paid off the union to sign off on this, so their approval of this means less than nothing.[/quote]I do think the Redskins have a number of viable defenses here, not the least of which is simply pointing out: "who are you guys to do this? Mind your own business!" I just don't see the litigation route as one of those viable options. Much like Al Davis couldn't have sued the league because the Tuck Rule was dumb. Well, he could have sued but it would have been thrown out.

Ultimately though, this seems like it will come down to how hard each side is willing to fight for/against the sanctions and what was previously in writing. The Redskins certainly didn't break any rules -- at least not any rules that would void the 2010 contract restructurings -- but they are still responsible for those deals if the NFL is going to decide that all contracts that broke the Rule of 30 (or whatever) in 2010 have to be paid back on the back end.

But like I said, if the NFL is going to fight hard enough, they'll find that as soon as they set an actual standard, there will be members on the NFL side who will be liable for penalty. The unfairness of the decision is the biggest issue that could keep the Redskins fighting a decision that ultimately isn't going to hurt them that much in the long run.

[QUOTE=CultBrennan59;896803]Wow congrats man. You are one determined skins fan coming back on this site right after having a kid![/QUOTE]

Lol yeah man I love my skins unfortunately for the wife maybe too much

And thanks bro

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Paintrain;896815]Here's a thought, quit bitching about the trade.. You don't like it, we get it but it's done so get over it. We aren't now going to trade with Cleveland, that's just moronic to even conceive and communicate it like it's anything that someone with more than a third grade education would consider.

This sky is falling BS because of this news is just that, BS. I'm sure the powers that be are working on all options to improve this team thru free agency, even if the $36 million penalty sticks. We will spend in free agency, we have 20, TWENTY picks over the next three years and we will see an improvement BESIDES the 'one player' who you seem to be obsessing over.[/quote]

:blah:

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;896819]Lol yeah man I love my skins unfortunately for the wife maybe too much

And thanks bro[/quote]

Good for u man, congrats.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=GTripp0012;896816]Much like Al Davis couldn't have sued the league because the Tuck Rule was dumb. Well, he could have sued but it would have been thrown out.
[/quote]

Problem with that analogy is that the Tuck Rule was, you know, the rule. What we did was also the rule and they're trying to retroactively punish us for following the rules. Again, the analogy would be punishing the Pats for benifitting from the rule that was in place at the time.

If this goes to court, the NFL would have to get on the stand and admit that they are punishing us for not going along with collusion. I don't know how they think they can get away with that.

I also don't know how they think they can punish us the full amount of the Haynesworth and Hall bonuses, but the Bears are in fact rewarded with extra cap space in spite of the way they did the Peppers contract.

This whole thing is outright lunacy.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=GreekSkin;896797]We still have cap space and great cap guys. Free agency isn't done for us.[/quote]

We shall see tomorrow!

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=biffle;896824]I also don't know how they think they can punish us the full amount of the Haynesworth and Hall bonuses, but the Bears are in fact rewarded with extra cap space in spite of the way they did the Peppers contract.

This whole thing is outright lunacy.[/quote]It's been ridiculously inconsistent, which is why I expect that if the Redskins push hard enough, the league will give it up.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

I find it hard to get too mad at Godell. He works for the owners if enough of them say jump he has to say "how high?"

The league had to know that neither Snyder or Jones were going to just bend over. But Rog had to try to do somwthing to appease his bosses.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=GTripp0012;896827]It's been ridiculously inconsistent, which is why I expect that if the Redskins push hard enough, the league will give it up.[/quote]

Yeah, my guess would be that we agree to some some minor, token penalty so the league can save face and we can stay on everyone's good side.

But then I can't figure what the league was doing. They basically gave away 160 mil in cap to the union to get this, plus I assume they're going to have to continue to give those teams the 1.6 mil. That's a lot to give up not knowing if this punishment was going to stand. And they must have seen the Redskin reaction and the enforcement problems coming. Or one would think.

[QUOTE=biffle;896760]I wouldn't have thought so either, but have you been following the news this afternoon?[/QUOTE]

No I haven't been following the news, what's going on?

Just because the NFL attempted to punish the Redskins for breaking an unwritten rule doesn't mean the punishment will stand up in court.

[QUOTE=Meks;896823]Good for u man, congrats.[/QUOTE]

Thanks man

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;896766]OK been out for a few( new baby boy) so what's the latest on this cap crap?[/QUOTE]

Congrats!

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=SBXVII;896754]But your talking about a league that looked at a trade scenario and said no you can't do it. They didn't approve it and later cry foul.

The NFL had every opportunity to contact both teams and say "you can't do that" or reject the contracts/deals that were made. But they didn't. They approved them and now later the other teams are crying fould cause they don't have as much money to spend and now they want the NFL to penalize both teams in order to make them competative with the Skins and Cowboys. You can't do that.

[B]By the way, the CBA had expired. What they had basically was a gentlemans agreement if you'd call it that and the league approved the deals[/B].[/quote]

The uncapped year was contained in the prior CBA - essentially it was an agreement between the parties that, if the CBA was not renewed, the year after non-renewal would be uncapped. So, while the terms of the prior CBA expired, the owners and players agreement (in this case the agreement to blow up the salary cap) continued one year past that expiration of those terms.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

I think Tripp is right. The more I have thought about it the more the litigation route seems useless other than perhaps some type of temporary injunction.

The problem is this. The league can do whatever it wants internally to the degree that it doesn't impair the unionized players to lose money. Speaking legally. If they want to enact wonky salary cap rules that distributes cap space proportional to record they can do that as long as it doesn't hurt the players' earning power. That type of major move would certainly get the NFLPA up in arms and a protracted legal battle might ensue but the players wouldn't definitely win..they only might win. Additionally if they want to enact in-game rules to favor certain teams they can do that too. None of it has to be "fair" but it's their league..they make the rules (or, more accurately, make up the rules as they go). What the league has done is patently unfair in philosophical sense but not really so in any type of legally enforceable sense.

On one hand the league just came out a labor dispute in which they essentially argued that the NFL is one big company and not 32 individual teams working together in a collusive manner. Speaking from a business standpoint this makes total sense. On the other hand when it comes to on-field competitiveness the teams clearly are not one unit but separate in every way. Competing for cap-space is a direct on-field issue while competing for real business dollars is a business issue.

The salary cap bridges the two worlds. Business and on-field competitiveness

I've always said the off season is the regular season for a Skins fan. So much media coverage and FA isn't even here yet. Touché Dan Snyder. Looking forward to the next few months until kick off and ESPN forgets we exist again. FML.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=mooby;896833]No I haven't been following the news, what's going on?

Just because the NFL attempted to punish the Redskins for breaking an unwritten rule doesn't mean the punishment will stand up in court.[/quote]

No it doesn't. And hopefully it won't.

But I was just making a joke because someone seemed to mock the idea of doing something about teams that were below the salary floor in 2010 because 'you can't just go back and apply rules retroactively' or whatever. Sorry the attempt at levity was apparently not up to your standards.