re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=GreekSkin;898334]Both Garcon and Morgan are players that are considered to be on the rise (i.e. not the peak) That's what I like best about these signings.[/quote]

I'm very pleased with the signings of Pierre Garcon and Josh Morgan. And along with who the Redskins already have at wide receiver, the Redskins could have one of the best wide receiving corps in the NFL. Although I like Armstrong and Stallworth, both of them could very well be released. We already know that David Anderson isn't coming back.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

Whew. Just read every post up to this point.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=RGIII;898348]Whew. Just read every post up to this point.[/quote]

Could you give the rest of us a brief recap, please? :laughing-

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;898358]Could you give the rest of us a brief recap, please? :laughing-[/quote]

:lol:

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=GTripp0012;898327]Well, perhaps they are trending that way.

I don't think it's likely that both of today's signings are Redskins in 2013. I think if one thrives and is the best FA WR we've signed in forever, then the other won't get enough opportunities to justify his salary, and will be gone in a year.

Not that this is a problem at all. Survival of the fittest is a fine approach to weeding out the weaker players at the receiver position. It's just weird that a team would invest more than $7 million cap dollars (a very large amount) at the Z receiver position to replace Armstrong and not get at least one player with a better track record than Armstrong.

Not that I'm complaining about the depth or anything. This team is just weird.[/quote]

I partially agree here in that one or possibly two of these guys won't be here in 2013. I think they're just setting up the team for a future draft. But you don't go from where the Redskins were last season to , say, the Giants WR corps overnight. It takes a couple of draft cycles to get there and this is big step in that direction.

Now as far as comparing Armstrong's track with these, I feel you're way off the mark. I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say "track record".

All in all it's an upgrade and will get over this hump onto to the next one.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

Even if keep 6 (not 7), I don't see how Moss makes the team, unless there's an injury or one the 3 FA flops.

You have to figure Gaffney and Niles Paul are going to make the squad.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

Shanahan said MULTIPLE times that Armstrong was not breaking off of jams at the line in 2012. He kept referencing that "a guy" can't get on the field (PT) if he can't get off of the line.

Armstrong wasn't getting jammed very often at all in 2010... thus a great year... the league figured him out (a small, fast, deep-route guy) and made the adjustment... AA didn't and couldn't get on the field... as I remember it.

Don't know if that constitutes a strong "track record"

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

My thoughts,

Pierre Garcon being paid top 8 WR money is inexcusable, but despite the ridiculous contract, he's a fit here. Pretty much a perfect comparison to Kendall Wright, who seemed to have success with RG3. He's trending upwards, he improved his hands and he's a play maker.

Josh Morgan is the PERFECT high risk/high reward signing. Look at what any Niners fan thinks about him leaving and you'll understand how highly they valued him. I remember him in college, didn't think he'd have any type of impact in the NFL, but I'm excited to see him play here again. Once again, huge risk/huge upside. (Huge risk being he's an injured unproven guy without any type of pedigree)

Eddie Royal we all saw coming. Drafted him early in fantasy after his rookie year, thought he'd be that next great small elusive proficient wide out. No where to be found outside of the return game the past two years, but he's talented was evident from his VT days. Hope he comes here, but he's not better than Santana Moss.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

Great additions for the Hogs. Almost like we got our 2nd round draft choice back and one of our 1st round draft choices back. Royal was a 42nd pick which is 2nd round and Garcon and Joshua Morgan both are worth a 1st round choice. Redskins getting it done and we are going to the playoffs.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

Is Eddie Royal official yet?

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=IrMitchell;898382]My thoughts,

Pierre Garcon being paid top 8 WR money is inexcusable, but despite the ridiculous contract, he's a fit here. Pretty much a perfect comparison to Kendall Wright, who seemed to have success with RG3. He's trending upwards, he improved his hands and he's a play maker.

Josh Morgan is the PERFECT high risk/high reward signing. Look at what any Niners fan thinks about him leaving and you'll understand how highly they valued him. I remember him in college, didn't think he'd have any type of impact in the NFL, but I'm excited to see him play here again. Once again, huge risk/huge upside. (Huge risk being he's an injured unproven guy without any type of pedigree)

Eddie Royal we all saw coming. Drafted him early in fantasy after his rookie year, thought he'd be that next great small elusive proficient wide out. No where to be found outside of the return game the past two years, but he's talented was evident from his VT days. Hope he comes here, but he's not better than Santana Moss.[/quote]

I agree with you that the Skins overpaid for Garcon. There is an air of desperation at Redskins park these days. Nevertheless, I am a believer in Garcon. I think he is on the verge of becoming a star. The Skins are gambling on it.

I agree that Morgan is an excellent signing. If you look at the way his contract is structured, I would call it a medium risk / high reward deal.

Royal makes sense but he may not want to sign with us now that we added two other WR's. As you pointed out, he may not be any better than Moss but he is younger and he can replace Banks, as well. Don't forget that he had a highly successful season in Denver under Mike Shanahan. I hope we get him because of his versatility, because we would continue to get younger on offense, and because, once he develops a rapport with RGIII, he could have years of good production with us.

Re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon, Eddie Royal, and Josh Morgan
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;898399]I agree with you that the Skins overpaid for Garcon. There is an air of desperation at Redskins park these days. Nevertheless, I am a believer in Garcon. I think he is on the verge of becoming a star. The Skins are gambling on it.

I agree that Morgan is an excellent signing. If you look at the way his contract is structured, I would call it a medium risk / high reward deal.

Royal makes sense but he may not want to sign with us now that we added two other WR's. As you pointed out, he may not be any better than Moss but he is younger and he can replace Banks, as well. Don't forget that he had a highly successful season in Denver under Mike Shanahan. I hope we get him because of his versatility,[B] because we would continue to get younger on offense,[/B] and because, once he develops a rapport with RGIII, he could have years of good production with us.[/quote]
I agree, but having a guy like Santana Moss may be good for these guys. .. Although I guess his track record for helping develop young guys isn't that great, haha.

It's funny, it's like we all of a sudden didn't draft two busts in 08. Thomas/Garcon, Morgan/Kelly.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

Pierre Garcon, even though expensive, was the perfect risk at this time for the Skins. He had a stretch mid to late last season where he was uncoverable. He is the perfect age entering prime so I believe this is a better signing than the injury risk, older colston or the system-highlighted, one strike away V Jax.

Morgan is a really good contract which we are taking a chance on to see if he can be a reliable system fit. So far so good.

I love the youth movement

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

It's so funny when i hear ya'll say "we overpaid for this player or that player" like we are the Patriots or a some team that is not 11-21 since shanny has got here. Im sorry you have to pay a premuim for talent when you suck.

Suck it up and enjoy the ride!

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;898409]It's so funny when i hear ya'll say "we overpaid for this player or that player" like we are the Patriots or a some team that is not 11-21 since shanny has got here. Im sorry you have to pay a premuim for talent when you suck.

Suck it up and enjoy the ride![/quote]
Give it up man, he's the 8th highest paid wide receiver in the league.

I don't care if we suck or not, that's unjustifiable.

Show me the numbers of WR salary if anyone can post. I'd like to compare but again garcon is a number 1 for us now with Hank or Morgan the number 2

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=IrMitchell;898410]Give it up man, he's the 8th highest paid wide receiver in the league.

I don't care if we suck or not, that's unjustifiable.[/quote]

The guy has shown steady improvement and has the ability to be a top 10 WR. No injury history, no off field issues, produced in a bad offense. depth threat and good run after the catch. good size. 42 mil is better than 55 mil to vjax.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=Chico23231;898413]The guy has shown steady improvement and has the ability to be a top 10 WR. No injury history, no off field issues, produced in a bad offense. depth threat and good run after the catch. good size. 42 mil is better than 55 mil to vjax.[/quote]
If Garcon has the ability to be a top 10 WR than so does about 50 other receivers.

I agree with everything else.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

Once contract details are revealed, I'll bet that these deals, like all B. Allen contracts, protect the team & will allow us to cut Garcon in future years w/out much pain. As usual, the #s reported are always eye catching.

Free agency, especially the first couple days, always produces several bloated contracts. That's why players love it, it's not about who's the best & what they deserve, it's about who's the best available & what are you willing to bid. The first days of free agency are totally a sellers market.

I know that's stating the obvious and I know that it is relevant that Garcon is 8th highest paid, etc. Just don't get caught up in that too much. Instead, ask if the signing is right for the skins and I think it is. I'm so happy VJax is headed elsewhere. Garcon has upside. Love Josh Morgan, I said during his sr. year at VT that he was a guy that would make it. Steady role player, don't be surprised to see him on spec. teams.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

I'm ok with Garcon's deal. He turned down $7M per year from the Colts, so naturally his price was only going to go up from there in free agency. I'd much rather give that type of money to a young player on the rise like him, than Vincent Jackson who is on the cusp of 30 and has off the field issues.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=IrMitchell;898414]If Garcon has the ability to be a top 10 WR than so does about 50 other receivers.

I agree with everything else.[/quote]

So you would rank 50 other WRs in the league as high or higher as Garcon?

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=Mattyk;898416]I'm ok with Garcon's deal. He turned down $7M per year from the Colts, so naturally his price was only going to go up from there in free agency. I'd much rather give that type of money to a young player on the rise like him, than Vincent Jackson who is on the cusp of 30 and has off the field issues.[/quote]

Exactly! Vinny signs Vjax, he made no sense for us. I like the idea of surrounding RGIII with young guys that will grow with him.


We paid for what Garcon can be vs. the Vinny days when we paid guys for what they were.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=freddyg12;898415][B]Once contract details are revealed, I'll bet that these deals, like all B. Allen contracts, protect the team & will allow us to cut Garcon in future years w/out much pain. As usual, the #s reported are always eye catching.[/B]Free agency, especially the first couple days, always produces several bloated contracts. That's why players love it, it's not about who's the best & what they deserve, it's about who's the best available & what are you willing to bid. The first days of free agency are totally a sellers market.

I know that's stating the obvious and I know that it is relevant that Garcon is 8th highest paid, etc. Just don't get caught up in that too much. Instead, ask if the signing is right for the skins and I think it is. I'm so happy VJax is headed elsewhere. Garcon has upside. Love Josh Morgan, I said during his sr. year at VT that he was a guy that would make it. Steady role player, don't be surprised to see him on spec. teams.[/quote]


very good point, it is all about the eye pop. Remember when we gave the extention to McNabb...people just focused on the big number, not the details

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=Jontrem;898418]So you would rank 50 other WRs in the league as high or higher as Garcon?[/quote]
Yeah, I think that's reasonable.

[QUOTE=IrMitchell;898422]Yeah, I think that's reasonable.[/QUOTE]

50? Wow start naming them lol.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

I love these signings. Instead of getting Jackson, we have two solid WR pickups, possibly three for the same price.


Notice what kind of WRs we're getting, Garcon and Morgan are HUGE yards-after-catch guys. Garcon's average is 2 yards better than V-Jax' YAC. These guys should make some huge plays with RG3. They're exactly the kind of WRs that fit with his deep ball ability.

Now, our WR group looks amazing:

Garcon
Moss
Morgan
Hankerson
Gaffney
Paul
Armstrong?

If we sign Royal, we may try to deal Moss, if not I'd remove Armstrong from the list, which is unfortunate because he's blazing fast. He drops too many TDs though. We need to hold onto Hankerson and Niles Paul though.


Now, we need to focus on Right Tackle and Safety....and London Fletcher.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

I think we're jumping the shark on Garcon's salary. Answer me this, how often does a player NOT get overpaid in this day and age? If we take a step back from all the noise and fury, it's all about the guaranteed money up front.

Garcon was probably the third most coveted receiver on the market. VJAX, Coltston, and Garcon in that order, unless I'm missing someone?

Considering the guaranteed money given to both players, which are few years older than Garcon, I think we got decent relative value.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=12thMan;898425]I think we're jumping the shark on Garcon's salary. Answer me this, how often does a player NOT get overpaid in this day and age? If we take a step back from all the noise and fury, it's all about the guaranteed money up front.

Garcon was probably the third most coveted receiver on the market. VJAX, Coltston, and Garcon in that order, unless I'm missing someone?

Considering the guaranteed money given to both players, which are few years older than Garcon, I think we got decent relative value.[/quote]

I keep looking at the actual guaranteed money...which I think it is somewhere between 13 to 16 mil, than the reported 21 mil. In a competitive market you got pay some guys a little bit. All of these wideouts are not the typical aging/pricey FAs we've gotten in the past. In the end, it is all about what MS wants and what we can work out given this big dump the NFL took on our team.

As with all acquisitions, of course we can't make full judgement until we see production on the field. Still, I think this team is headed in the right direction and we are making some good moves.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=IrMitchell;898422]Yeah, I think that's reasonable.[/quote]

He has been top 30 in terms of # of catches last two years and last year he did it with an awful QB situation. I am an not arguing that we overpaid for what his production has been but I think to get him to come here we were going to have to overpay him and that we knew that going into negotiations. I think the fact that he is young and has had some success make him exactly the type of player BA and MS are targeting and I think having a WR who has worked with someone like PM can do a lot to help teach RG3 the best ways to work with his WRs.

I don't think he will come in right away and be a true #1 WR but I certainly think he can pretty quickly develop into one with the way RG3 throws the deep ball and if that happens then his overpriced contract will turn out to be very reasonable.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;898423]50? Wow start naming them lol.[/quote]
I counted 43, just my opinion.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=IrMitchell;898430]I counted 43, just my opinion.[/quote]

Well Shanahan's opinion is slightly more important.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=Ruhskins;898431]Well Shanahan's opinion is slightly more important.[/quote]
No kidding.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=12thMan;898425]I think we're jumping the shark on Garcon's salary. Answer me this, how often does a player NOT get overpaid in this day and age? If we take a step back from all the noise and fury, it's all about the guaranteed money up front.

Garcon was probably the third most coveted receiver on the market. VJAX, Coltston, and Garcon in that order, unless I'm missing someone?

Considering the guaranteed money given to both players, which are few years older than Garcon, I think we got decent relative value.[/quote]

Actually, for his abilities compared to the other big name WR signings, I think we got a bargain with Garcon. He and RG3 are going to make some beautiful music together.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

We paid for what Garcon can be vs. the Vinny days when we paid guys for what they were.[/QUOTE]

Nicely said and well put.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=Jontrem;898418]So you would rank 50 other WRs in the league as high or higher as Garcon?[/quote]

I would. Maybe not 50, but they fall from trees. And Garçon was a 6th rounder. A bunch of teams will find value picks at the WR position in just about every round. Once you get past the freaks like CJ, AJ, Fitz, etc. the next 30 or so are interchangeable. Is he Victor Cruz? Undrafted free agency that cost the Giants peanuts. I'll get excited when the Skins show they can make moves like that.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng5VCtINFqw]Pierre Garcon 2011-12 Highlights [Focused] - YouTube[/ame]
Cool video

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

"Moss on the way out" article:


[url=http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/redskins-watch/2012/mar/14/pondering-santana-moss-future/]Pondering Santana Moss' future - Washington Times[/url]

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

Funny I went to bed with the notion we had resigned Carriker and signed 3 WR free agents. I wake up today and hear Carriker and 2 WR's and the team is trying to woo Royal. Radio talking about Royal maybe now seeing the other 2 WR's might not want to come here.

Stallworth will be gone
Austin should go
Banks should go

The 2 new and possibly 3rd WR would take those spots. However, one could make the case for Armstrong, Gaffney (although somewhat productive last yr), and Robertson being gone.

I'm figuring who is definite to stay:

1-Garcon
2-Morgan
3-Hankerson
4-Moss (?)
5-Gaffney
6-Paul

7th on the PS? Robertson again? or will they keep Armstrong because of his speed and hope he learns from Garcon? Will Moss be let go?

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

I think Royal is finding more interest out there than perhaps he anticipated.