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[quote=JoeRedskin;1057036]Well, if we had tangible proof of Bigfoot, Spiderman or the Loch Ness Monster sitting somewhere contemplating the existence of God, we would have proof [I]their[/I] existence.

While I would not phrase it the way he did nor do I entirely agree with the sentiment, I think the critique off base. As I understand Chico's statement, it is "Our existence and ability to have conscience thought is proof of a being beyond our comprehension [I]being the cause [/I]of our creation". I don't think it is the "If I can think of it, it exists" argument you seem to be criticizing. [Chico, if I misstate your assertion I apologize].[/quote]

Yeah you sum it up pretty well.

While Im not stupid to sit here and argue against science and evolution which I do agree with alot of, I would say it doesnt explain it all.

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[quote=JoeRedskin;1057092]Always a pleasure RR.[/quote]

You remember that episode of Star Trek where Kirk fights naughty Kirk?

It's as pointless as that, but still fun!

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[quote=Chico23231;1057096]Yeah you sum it up pretty well.

While Im not stupid to sit here and argue against science and evolution which I do agree with alot of, I would say it doesnt explain it all.[/quote]

Science is getting us there, religion is holding us back.

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Justification for Ridiculing Others Belief - Check.
Cherry picking Biblical quotes - Check
Dismissing 10,000 years of Philosophical debate - Check
Equivocation of various Biblical principles - Check
Smugness - Check.

Congratulations! You have achieved Atheist, Boss Level.

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[quote=That Guy;1057094]you mean like when the catholic church debated the cathar's, lost and then decided to murder them into extinction? I'm not totally in love with the excessive violence of "peaceful" organized religions.[/quote]

Is the Catholic Church sanctioning another pogrom? I must have missed that on CNN this morning.

But, hey, you're absolutely right - b/c the Catholic Church is imperfect and has sanctioned and carried out what it would not sanction or do now, there can be no truth in anything they have ever said. How dare they not be perfect from the start. Obviously, the 10 Commandments and Christ's Two Great Commandments are completely without basis. Clearly, understanding the infinite by finite beings should be accomplished without even the slightest hitch.

Religion and the claim to authority over your eternal soul has led to many abuses. So has the pursuit of scientific discovery (Dr. Mengele, the Tuskeegee Airmen, Project 922). Nothing touched by humans is free of abuse and perversion to evil ends.

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[quote=RedskinRat;1057099]You remember that episode of Star Trek where Kirk fights naughty Kirk?

It's as pointless as that, but still fun![/quote]

Yeah. It is.

Did you like the tombstone? I can have one specially ordered for you. You know, just in case.

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[quote=RedskinRat;1057101]Science is getting us there, religion is holding us back.[/quote]

What? Attendance at church cutting into scientists lab time? Nipping into the communal wine instead of seeking proof of the multiverse? Ninja deacons sneaking into the large Haldron Collider and peeing on the quarks??

Damn it religion! Stop messing with scientists heads - they don't have time to think outside the box.

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If all the wasted hours of prayer had been applied to the pursuit of scientific research we'd be so much more advanced than we currently are.

Computers would be in charge already!

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[IMG]http://data3.whicdn.com/images/33069958/large.jpg[/IMG]

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[IMG]http://global3.memecdn.com/atheists_o_673298.jpg[/IMG]

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[IMG]http://global3.memecdn.com/We-only-let-atheists-in-heaven_c_90849.jpg[/IMG]

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[IMG]http://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/1150230_10152176793429399_381796741_n.jpg[/IMG]

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[IMG]http://global3.memecdn.com/irony-train_c_341790.jpg[/IMG]

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[IMG]http://global3.memecdn.com/im-religious-and-i-ld-oma_o_341528.jpg[/IMG]

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[IMG]http://global3.memecdn.com/the-most-interesting-man-in-the-world_o_1008219.jpg[/IMG]

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[quote=JoeRedskin;1057069][IMG]http://thaumaturgical.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/bertrand-russell-quote-fools-wise-men-590x387.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

So damn true.

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[IMG]http://global3.memecdn.com/yeah-go-on-i-amp-039-m-listening_o_2430207.jpg[/IMG]

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[quote=RedskinRat;1057113][IMG]http://global3.memecdn.com/atheists_o_673298.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

Well, duh, of course Godzilla attacked Tokyo. It's filled with heathens and pagans. It's was just Sodom and Gomorrah ... Lizard style.

It's patently obvious that Atheistzilla would head straight for the Vatican.

Christians: 1
Heathens and Pagans: 0

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[quote=JoeRedskin;1057105]Is the Catholic Church sanctioning another pogrom? I must have missed that on CNN this morning.

But, hey, you're absolutely right - b/c the Catholic Church is imperfect and has sanctioned and carried out what it would not sanction or do now, there can be no truth in anything they have ever said. How dare they not be perfect from the start. Obviously, the 10 Commandments and Christ's Two Great Commandments are completely without basis. Clearly, understanding the infinite by finite beings should be accomplished without even the slightest hitch.

Religion and the claim to authority over your eternal soul has led to many abuses. So has the pursuit of scientific discovery (Dr. Mengele, the Tuskeegee Airmen, Project 922). Nothing touched by humans is free of abuse and perversion to evil ends.[/quote]

so you think racism is scientific?

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[quote=That Guy;1057136]so you think racism is scientific?[/quote]

Nope. Science, however, has most certainly been used to justify racism.

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;1057138]Nope. Science, however, has most certainly been used to justify racism.[/QUOTE]

May we have an example, please? From my research everyone seems to agree that Dr. Mengele was unscientific and had no regard for his victims. Also not sure what you're suggesting with the Tuskeegee deal.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[QUOTE=RedskinRat;1057157]May we have an example, please? From my research everyone seems to agree that Dr. Mengele was unscientific and had no regard for his victims. Also not sure what you're suggesting with the Tuskeegee deal.

Religion has racism as a cornerstone. Want a slave? We're cool with that.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]



Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

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[quote=RedskinRat;1057157]May we have an example, please? From my research everyone seems to agree that Dr. Mengele was unscientific and had no regard for his victims. Also not sure what you're suggesting with the Tuskeegee deal.

Religion has racism as a cornerstone. Want a slave? We're cool with that.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk[/quote]

Wow ... sometimes it's just to easy. You'll note I did not say valid scientific processes have been used to justify racism. Rather, perversions of the scientific process have been used to justify racism and a host of other abuses. Just b/c some misrepresent their methods as "scientific", it does not invalidate the scientific method.

Similarly, a perversion of the Christ's message that allows the killing of heretics to enhance temporal authority of the Pope and French barons and a misrepresentation of postulate that "only through perfect service is perfect freedom achieved" promotes slavery does not invalidate the underlying search for truth for which "organized religion" was created.

So much of the critique of religious thought and/or theology in this thread demonstrates a stunningly superficial knowledge of the same and/or consistently falls into the logical fallacy of imputing imperfections of parts onto the whole.

Have you even read Aquinas?

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;1057176]Wow ... sometimes it's just to easy. You'll note I did not say valid scientific processes have been used to justify racism. [/QUOTE]

You said science. Nice backpedal.

Which of the commandments says it's wrong to own a slave? Or say it's wrong to molest children? There are plenty that self protect the all-powerful deity.....

Only one this worse than an attorney, and that's a godfearing attorney.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

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Facebook God is amazing.

[IMG]https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/935131_606661319421575_1443543338_n.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;1057182]Facebook God is amazing.
[/QUOTE]

He certainly knows how to make the deeply devout show their love and compassion.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

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[quote=RedskinRat;1057180]You said science. Nice backpedal.

Which of the commandments says it's wrong to own a slave? Or say it's wrong to molest children? There are plenty that self protect the all-powerful deity.....

Only one this worse than an attorney, and that's a godfearing attorney.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk[/quote]

It wasn't a backpedal. It was a specific word choice intended to provoke the "science doesn't validate that only a perversion/misrepresentation of science does" in order to demonstrate the logically fallacy being argued. Guess I didn't think you would be the one to take the bait ... sometimes I give you too much credit.

As to slavery and molestation, how about we start with Christ's two great commandments: Love God above all else, Love thy neighbor as yourself - Upon these two great commandments hang all the prophets and the law." If you interpret "Love they neighbor as yourself" to mean "enslave your neighbor and molest his children", I guess you got me on that.

Oh please, answer as I expect ...

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;1057194]It wasn't a backpedal. It was a specific word choice intended ........[/QUOTE]<SNIP>

as only can know your intent we can leave aside intent.

You stated science, not the misuse or misinterpretation of science.

Who are you to rank the commandments? In order, the first four are all about how insecure god is and then ten mentions your neighbours slave, which more recently was sanitized to mean 'servant'.

Xtians are such egomaniacs.....



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1) So, to be clear, you would agree that the misrepresentation or perversion of science to accomplish non-scientific ends does not invalidate the good purposes of scientific discovery and search for scientific truths?

2) Who am I to rank commandments? Just an infinitesimal peon in the grand scheme of the universe/multiverse/sodaverse. I am just quoting The Man, of course it helps that He is consistent with the 10 commandments and summarizes their intent -

His first "Great Commandment" encapsulates the first four which deal with acknowledging the existence of God, setting time aside to study him (it/her), treating God respectfully and keeping all else in perspective in relation to God - All things one does if they "Love God above all else".

Christ's 2nd Great Commandment? Love thy neighbor as yourself. Again, the following six commandments are honor you parents, don't steal, don't murder, don't cheat on your wife, don't bear false witness against your neighbor and don't covet your neighbor's stuff. - All things one does if they "Love their neighbor as themselves."

Ohhhhhh, 15,000 years ago they owned slaves and thought it okay --- clearly God doesn't exist. Again, how dare those people not have the same moral values we have today. If God existed they would have gotten it right from the start!!

... meanwhile, claiming the existence of a historical condition - slavery - tangential and not in contradiction to the actual prohibition - don't covet your neighbor's possessions ('cause slaves are possessions not people/neighbors) - and asserting that is negates that prohibition is an error of presentism which you have often railed against in others.

Again, your dismissal and denial of critical thinking on anything you consider poppy cock is mind boggling ... and, somehow, I'm the egomaniac??

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[quote=RedskinRat;1057206]<SNIP>

as only can know your intent we can leave aside intent.

You stated science, not the misuse or misinterpretation of science.[/quote]

We do not leave aside my intent. The statement stands as set out. "Many have used science to justify racism, slavery and other evils". The statement neither defines nor passes judgment on the validity or invalidity of the science used. It simply contains the same logical fallacy that claiming "many have used Christianity to justify racism, slavery and other evils" does.

You, of course, don't see the equivalency because your knowledge of theology and Christianity appears to fit in a teaspoon and your ability to perform any critical thinking about the possible existence of things beyond the perception of our five senses is simply non-existent.

Okay ... so maybe that last paragraph scored a few points on the arrogance scale.

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[quote=RedskinRat;1057206]<SNIP>

[B]as only can know your intent we can leave aside intent.[/B]

You stated science, not the misuse or misinterpretation of science.

Who are you to rank the commandments? In order, the first four are all about how insecure god is and then ten mentions your neighbours slave, which more recently was sanitized to mean 'servant'.

Xtians are such egomaniacs.....



Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk[/quote]

For some reason (not the missing you) the bolded sentence made me laugh. Let's just leave intent out of all discussions going forward. Intent serves no purpose. Intent is in the eye of the intender so no one else can ever be expected (because we can obviously set aside context, and grammatical structure, and word usage) to understand intent.

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[quote=CRedskinsRule;1057306]For some reason (not the missing you) the bolded sentence made me laugh. Let's just leave intent out of all discussions going forward. Intent serves no purpose. Intent is in the eye of the intender so no one else can ever be expected (because we can obviously set aside context, and grammatical structure, and word usage) to understand intent.[/quote]

The god botherer didn't make his intent clear, he changed the thrust of his argument by stating the following:

"[I]Science, however, has most certainly been used to justify racism.[/I] "

Then changing it to:

"[I]perversions of the scientific process have been used to justify racism and a host of other abuses[/I]".

Mmmm, intent! Smells like 'BACKPEDAL'!

In my defence (because I'm Anglo-American) I was typing on my cell phone when I left off the 'You' whilst working on a complicated system install at work. I'm far more relaxed now.

CRedskinsRule, you seem to be an expert in reading 'intent' in a communication. What am I intending to call you, [B][U][I]right now[/I][/U][/B]? Should be easy, right?

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[quote=RedskinRat;1057309]The god botherer didn't make his intent clear, he changed the thrust of his argument by stating the following:

"[I]Science, however, has most certainly been used to justify racism.[/I] "

Then changing it to:

"[I]perversions of the scientific process have been used to justify racism and a host of other abuses[/I]".

Mmmm, intent! Smells like 'BACKPEDAL'!

In my defence (because I'm Anglo-American) I was typing on my cell phone when I left off the 'You' whilst working on a complicated system install at work. I'm far more relaxed now.

CRedskinsRule, you seem to be an expert in reading 'intent' in a communication. What am I intending to call you, [B][U][I]right now[/I][/U][/B]? Should be easy, right?[/quote]

LOL I am pretty sure you intended to call me a "saint", with all the connotations that you might personally ascribe to them.

JR's first sentence and second sentence don't have any form of backpedal in them. The first takes the general noun of "SCIENCE" (for my purposes said in a cute and cuddly penguin voice) and the second shows the form of "SCIENCE" which has definitely been used by humans with bad INTENT to do bad things.

Substituting RELIGION (in cute and cuddly pope voice LOL[ LOL is included for showing intent of making a joke]) and "perversion of religious precepts" in the above two sentences gives you:

RELIGION(Science), however, has most certainly been used to justify racism.

perversions of the religious precepts(perversions of the scientific process) have been used to justify racism and a host of other abuses

Pretty clear that JR was, as he later said, trying to provoke a realization of a logical fallacy.

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[quote=CRedskinsRule;1057312]LOL I am pretty sure you intended to call me a "saint", with all the connotations that you might personally ascribe to them.[/quote]

You have a couple of letters missing, some in the wrong order, but, yeah.....close.

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1057312]JR's first sentence and second sentence don't have any form of backpedal in them. The first takes the general noun of "SCIENCE" (for my purposes said in a cute and cuddly penguin voice) and the second shows the form of "SCIENCE" which has definitely been used by humans with bad INTENT to do bad things. [/quote]

Did JR state "Science, however, has most certainly been used to justify racism". He did. So you're saying he's free to change the meaning of what was said to suit an argument he's losing. Otay.....

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1057312]Substituting RELIGION (in cute and cuddly pope voice LOL[ LOL is included for showing intent of making a joke]) and "perversion of religious precepts" in the above two sentences gives you:

RELIGION(Science), however, has most certainly been used to justify racism.[/quote]

Yawn.

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1057312]perversions of the religious precepts(perversions of the scientific process) have been used to justify racism and a host of other abuses

Pretty clear that JR was, as he later said, trying to provoke a realization of a logical fallacy.[/quote]

Which politician are you a speechwriter for?

We're lucky to have you helping out.

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Let's get back to the amusing pictures:

[IMG]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_p_9pdCw6yaY/TSujxmmlOzI/AAAAAAAAABc/XH0YMqU4R2o/s1600/darkages.jpg[/IMG]

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Cherrypicking the whole book:

[IMG]http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/8279/93435488.jpg[/IMG]

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[IMG]http://img1.visualizeus.com/thumbs/08/09/02/atheism,funny,jesus,poster,religion,stupid-3d5472d1118af053d3ca5b4f08464d1c_h.jpg[/IMG]

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[IMG]http://yeshivaforum.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/demotivational-funny-religion-jesus-christian.jpg[/IMG]

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[IMG]http://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1536671_465513183570622_585573052_n.png[/IMG]

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[URL="http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/saudi-arabia/tweet-sparks-new-controversy-over-religious-issue-1.1279677"]Leading Saudi Muslim cleric prays that female activist lose her hand and eyesight for saying that Muhammad’s arch-enemy had a beard longer than the prophet’s:
[/URL]

[I]A Saudi activist said that she would sue a religious scholar after he called for putting her on trial over a tweet in which he claimed she had insulted Prophet Mohammad (PBUH). Suad Al Shimmari said that Shaikh Adel Al Kalbani wronged her by claiming that she had ridiculed the Prophet by denigrating the significance of beards that men are expected to grow as required by some religious schools.


“I call for a swift trial of Suad Al Shimmari for her offences to the Prophet [PBUH] and her scorns in the tweet she posted,” Al Kalbani said, quoted by local news site Sabq. In her tweet, Al Shimmari said “one of the dumbest statements is that breeding beards is to be different from the heathens. These include past and present Orientalists, Jews, priests, Communists and Marxists beards. Abu Jahl [an arch-enemy of the Prophet and the flag-bearer of disbelief and hatred towards Islam] had a beard longer than that of the Prophet.”

Reacting to the tweet, Al Kalbani prayed that Suad lose the use of her hand and her eyesight. The activist however rejected the charges and said they were part of a campaign to discredit her.

[/I]Feel the peace[I].
[/I]