Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[url=http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2014/FS]NFL Draft - 2014 NFL Draft Prospects - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com[/url]

edit: i guess i was too late.

34th Overall Pick
 

[QUOTE=Lotus;1069908]If we go pure BPA, IMO we pick a center or guard at 34 (or thereabouts). Add NT to the mix if Nix falls. The best safeties, corners, tackles, OLB's, and TE's will be off the board, but the best center and guard in the draft (and maybe NT) might still be there.



Such would be ok with me. I'm not rooting for a particular position, I just want us to be smart.[/QUOTE]


C or G is so rare that high. Pouncey is the only one i can think of in recent history. This draft is supposedly very deep with db's. Our first two picks will be verrett or ward and than antonio richardson!

Edit: im sure pouncey isnt the only one but i cant think of any others. Especially guards.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1069959]in the mock drafts I have seen there is not much difference between #34 and #41 +. So if they can trade down and add another player it is a no brainier. I agree with the 7 positions, and would add a center to the list.

Bleacher report has :

#41 Moses T
#47 Su'a Filo G
#48 Nix NT
#51 Buchannon S
late 2nd Van Noy OLB
late 2nd Murphy DE
late 2nd Niklas TE

If their mock draft is accurate they could get one of the players above, and add a 3rd round pick, and get two of these three:

Ward S
Reynolds S
Richardson T
Turner G/T
Thomas G/T
Bitonio G/T[/quote]

Not to shit on your post, but bleacher report is an absolute terrible resource. Kiper/McShays rankings, cbs draft scout are kinda my go to.

Question, who goes where for draft rankings/prospect reports and who is the best in your opinion?

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1069950]Starting to come around to a Jimmie Ward/Phillip Thomas safety combo.[/quote]

Agree. Great to see if Thomas can bounce back from from that injury.

Speaking of injury ILB K. Robinson, anybody heard anything? Haslett thinks he is the the starter if he recovers and plays like he did last offseason.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

In this draft, there seem to be a lot of players who are projected as anywhere from late first round to third round picks, depending on who is doing the evaluations. I suppose that is the reason that this draft is considered to be so strong.

Because of the wide range of opinions about specifically where in the first three rounds most of these players will be drafted, I believe that the draft itself will be filled with many surprise picks and trades. As for the Skins, we have no way of knowing what their final draft board might look like or what they might do during the draft. I think that is especially true this time around because of the wide range of opinions on many players who are nevertheless good players and also because of the Redskins' many player needs.

Bruce Allen seems to be a very organized and disciplined executive and he has vowed to listen more to his player personnel people than other Redskins decision makers have in the past. With this in mind, I anticipate that we'll do well in the draft even if we're all surprised by some of the players the Redskins select. So, I'm just anticipating sitting back and seeing what happens.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=Chico23231;1069983]Not to shit on your post, but bleacher report is an absolute terrible resource. Kiper/McShays rankings, cbs draft scout are kinda my go to.

Question, who goes where for draft rankings/prospect reports and who is the best in your opinion?[/quote]

The point wasn't that Bleacher report is the most accurate, it was that there is depth in the draft (as KI Skins says). The mock drafts are all over the place, Morgan Moses could be a late 1st or drop to the 3rd, ditto for Jimmy Ward, and several others.

I like this site, it is much more informative than the CBS site, but it does not rank players in draft order, just by position ...... at least I cannot find the list.

[url=http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/probe.php?genpos=QB&draftyear=2014&sortby=tsxpos&order=ASC]The Sports Xchange College Football/NFL Draft Scout Rankings, From Prep to Pro Coverage by the Sports Xchange[/url]

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1069989]The point wasn't that Bleacher report is the most accurate, it was that there is depth in the draft (as KI Skins says). The mock drafts are all over the place, Morgan Moses could be a late 1st or drop to the 3rd, ditto for Jimmy Ward, and several others.

I like this site, it is much more informative than the CBS site, but it does not rank players in draft order, just by position ...... at least I cannot find the list.

[url=http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/probe.php?genpos=QB&draftyear=2014&sortby=tsxpos&order=ASC]The Sports Xchange College Football/NFL Draft Scout Rankings, From Prep to Pro Coverage by the Sports Xchange[/url][/quote]

they have overall ranks too, but those guys are owned by cbs now, and their info is all on cbssportsline or whatever. it's all rob rang.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[url=http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings]NFL Draft - 2014 NFL Draft Prospects - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com[/url]

also, top 100 rankings/player snapshots:
[url=http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl-draft-scout/24548474/nfl-draft-final-top-100-draft-board]2014 NFL Draft: Final Top-100 Draft board has Bridgewater No. 1 - CBSSports.com[/url]

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=That Guy;1069993][url=http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings]NFL Draft - 2014 NFL Draft Prospects - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com[/url]

also, top 100 rankings/player snapshots:
[url=http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl-draft-scout/24548474/nfl-draft-final-top-100-draft-board]2014 NFL Draft: Final Top-100 Draft board has Bridgewater No. 1 - CBSSports.com[/url][/quote]

Who really knows, does CBS have a good track record ?

FWIW.... I like Niklas, Tuitt, Van Noy, and Bitonio more than most of the players ranked in the 30s and 40s

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1069994]Who really knows, does CBS have a good track record ?

FWIW.... I like Niklas, Tuitt, Van Noy, and Bitonio more than most of the players ranked in the 30s and 40s[/quote]

I've been going to CBS for years and find them to be the best. That said, every site ends up being wrong a lot.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1069994]Who really knows, does CBS have a good track record ?

FWIW.... I like Niklas, Tuitt, Van Noy, and Bitonio more than most of the players ranked in the 30s and 40s[/quote]

well, they bought nfldraftscout and it's staff, which does have a good track record. that doesn't mean they're perfect, but they tend to be pretty good.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

I think that anyone on this site would be hard-pressed to predict two dozen players who will be drafted in the first round. That goes for the media experts, as well. Based on all that I've read on the subject, there doesn't seem to be much separation between the players who will be drafted in the bottom third of the first round and those who will be drafted in the second round, or even the third round in some cases.

I'm guessing that a lot of teams will try to trade down during the draft but there's no way to know if many of them will be able to find trading partners who want to move up.

To be more specific, due to the widely perceived depth of this draft I'm more receptive to the Skins trading down this time around (with the #34 pick) than I normally would be, but only if they can get the return of a later second round pick and a third round pick.

I'm dead set against trading down in later rounds because our history of doing so shows that we have gained next to nothing from it.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1070008]I think that anyone on this site would be hard-pressed to predict two dozen players who will be drafted in the first round. That goes for the media experts, as well. Based on all that I've read on the subject, there doesn't seem to be much separation between the players who will be drafted in the bottom third of the first round and those who will be drafted in the second round, or even the third round in some cases.[/quote]

Teddy Bridgewater, Johnny Manziel, Greg Robinson, Taylor Lewan, Jake Matthews, Khalil Mack, Sammy Watkins, Justin Gilbert, Mike Evans, Odell Beckham Jr., Aaron Donald, Eric Ebron, Anthony Barr, Blake Bortles, Brandin Cooks, Zack Martin, Timmy Jernigan, Louis Nix, Xavier Su'a-Filo, Ha-Sean Clinton-Dix, Kyle Fuller, Darqueze Dennard, Jadeveon Clowney, CJ Mosley, and Marquise Lee. That's my 2 dozen, plus 2.

In my opinion, a lot of that supposed lack of separation in talent is mere media hype. For example, Teddy Bridgewater going in the 2nd round is simply bullcrap. He's just too talented a player at too important of a position to last that long. Same with any talk of Morgan Moses going in the 3rd. After the draft, I'll revisit this thread(if I even remember, that is), and see how many of those I listed were actually drafted in the 1st.

I mentioned "mere media hype", but it's sometimes difficult to separate that from what really is worth believing, since the vast majority of my information comes from the media. Common sense is a helpful tool.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

Here is a very interesting and useful chart produced by Pat Kirwin of cbssports.com with help from his team of experts:

Draftable Players by Position
Pos. Rnd 1-3 Rnd 4-7 Total
QB 7 6 13
RB 7 12 19
TE 5 10 15
WR 14 20 34
OT 9 10 19
OG 6 9 15
C 3 3 6
DE 10 10 20
DT 10 12 22
ILB 3 7 10
OLB 9 13 22
S 6 13 20
CB 12 18 30
TOTALS 101 147 249

There will be 96 players drafted in the first three rounds and Kirwin and his team of experts have identified 101 players they think are draftable in those rounds.

I really don't know how this chart would compare to previous drafts but, with 40% of all draftable players graded as third rounders or better, it seems to support the position that there is good depth in the high end of this draft.

Now, I leave you to your own analysis of these numbers.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

Mike Mayock comment on the Redskins' pick at #34:

“A guy that nobody is talking about that I love is Joel Bitonio from Nevada,” he said. “Most people assume he’s a guard. I watched him handle Anthony Barr from UCLA. I watched him against Florida State. I watched him against Boise who has a good edge kid in Demarcus Lawrence. I think Bitonio will start day one at right tackle and I think he’ll be there at 34.”

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

My apologies if this was already posted, but here's the recent record of our second round picks (some real clunkers in the lot (I am reminded how horrifically bad our 2008 draft was), but some gems too):

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/7415/redskins-recent-second-round-picks]Redskins' recent second-round picks - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN[/url]

They could find a solid starter, as they’ve done in the past. Or they could find players who contribute little and are out of the league before turning 26. The Redskins have found those players in the past as well.

When it comes to their recent history with second-round picks, there’s an obvious mix with some hits (Jon Jansen, Fred Smoot) and misses (2008). Some are still to be determined (David Amerson, Jarvis Jenkins).

Their last second-round pick to become a Pro Bowler was Stephen Alexander, a 1998 pick who earned a trip to Hawaii in 2000. In fact, Alexander is one of only three second-round picks by the Redskins to make the Pro Bowl since 1965 – Chip Lohmiller (1991) and Tre Johnson (1999) being the others. Of course, they’ve also had 18 seasons since 1972 without a second-round pick thanks to trades.

The good news is that Fred Davis made a postseason all-star game; the bad news is that this Davis was a third-round pick in 1941.

Anyway, here are the Redskins’ last 10 second-round picks:

CB David Amerson (2013; 51st overall)

Note: Improved as a rookie while serving as the No. 3 corner. Will open this season as the starter. Amerson did not look overwhelmed by any means and improved as a rookie, but whether he’s a quality starter remains to be seen.

DE Jarvis Jenkins (2011; 41)

Note: Jenkins has started 19 games for Washington in two seasons (missing the first with a knee injury) and done a solid job against the run, but he hasn’t developed enough as a pass-rusher. He’ll be a free agent after this season and there’s no guarantee he’ll return.

WR Devin Thomas (2008; 34)

Note: Caught 40 passes in two-plus seasons with Washington before being released. Also played for Carolina and the New York Giants, where he was a solid special-teams player. Was the first of three pass-catching picks in the second round of this draft. It was not a memorable draft.

TE Fred Davis (2008; 48)

Note: The talented Davis flashed for a couple seasons (59 catches in 2011; 48 catches and six touchdowns in 2009), but overall his career will be remembered as a disappointment. Though he was hardly the first player to have fun off the field, it wasn't a good fit for him and eventually led to him being suspended. His 2012 Achilles injury hasn’t helped, either. He remains unsigned (and will be suspended for the first four games whenever he does sign).

WR Malcolm Kelly (2008; 51)

Note: Despite concerns expressed by their own training staff about his knees, the Redskins drafted Kelly anyway. He caught 28 passes in two seasons before being released. He never played for another team. Shockingly, injuries spoiled his career. So to add it up: both he and Thomas were done playing before they turned 26.

LB Rocky McIntosh (2006; 35)

Note: McIntosh was a productive player for several seasons, both from scrimmage and on special teams. Coaches liked his toughness and desire to compete. He spent four years as a full-time starter, but was not a good fit in the 3-4 scheme and eventually lost his job to Perry Riley in 2011. He spent 2012 in St. Louis and last season with Detroit. He remains unsigned.

WR Taylor Jacobs (2003; 44)

Note: Would look good in practices, then be unproductive in games. Jacobs caught 30 passes in three seasons with Washington, then spent 2006 with San Francisco and ’07 with both the 49ers and Denver. He caught another seven passes in his career, but did not play after 2007.

RB Ladell Betts (2002; 56)

Note: He had a decent career and finished with 3,326 yards rushing, 1,646 receiving and 2,085 returning kicks. But if you’re picked in the second round, you should spend more than one season as the full-time starter. Betts was never outstanding at anything and his career long run was 27 yards. However, Betts was a good backup to Clinton Portis, who arrived in 2004. Betts shined in 2006 after Portis was hurt, rushing for 1,154 yards and averaging 4.7 yards a carry and adding 53 catches for 445 yards. As a rookie Betts was behind Stephen Davis and Kenny Watson and, in Year 2, Trung Canidate. Betts played one season in New Orleans, finishing with 150 yards rushing and 141 receiving.

CB Fred Smoot (2001; 45)

Note: If nothing else he’ll win the award for funniest Redskin ever. Though he never ate pineapples on the big island (Hawaii; Pro Bowl), as he predicted, Smoot was a solid player for the Redskins. He started 85 games in seven seasons with Washington – a tenure interrupted by two seasons in Minnesota. Smoot did not play after 2009. He did not enter with a reputation for being tough, but exited with one.

RT Jon Jansen (1999; 37)

Note: A solid starter for his first five seasons before his Achilles injury in the Hall of Fame game in 2004; he and Chris Samuels made terrific bookends. After the injury, Jansen wasn’t quite the same and lasted two more years as the starter before another injury in 2007. He was the full-time starter in ’08, but released after the season (and 123 career starts). He played for Detroit in 2009.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1070027]Mike Mayock comment on the Redskins' pick at #34:

“A guy that nobody is talking about that I love is Joel Bitonio from Nevada,” he said. “Most people assume he’s a guard. I watched him handle Anthony Barr from UCLA. I watched him against Florida State. I watched him against Boise who has a good edge kid in Demarcus Lawrence. I think Bitonio will start day one at right tackle and I think he’ll be there at 34.”[/quote]

I hope we listen to Mayock.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1070245]I hope we listen to Mayock.[/quote]

Please nobody's talking about. Bucky Brooks was the first person I heard talk about this guy and now everyone's mentioning him.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;1070251]Please nobody's talking about. Bucky Brooks was the first person I heard talk about this guy and now everyone's mentioning him.[/quote]

Yeah, he's suddenly became a popular pick at #34 for some reason. I wouldn't be opposed to taking him in the middle of the 2nd or top of the 3rd, but I think he's a reach at #34. If Moses, James, or Kouandijo aren't there, I'm fairly certain no RT will be BPA.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

Ladell Betts longest career run was 27 yards? That's gotta be disappointing

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1070027]Mike Mayock comment on the Redskins' pick at #34:



“A guy that nobody is talking about that I love is Joel Bitonio from Nevada,” he said. “Most people assume he’s a guard. I watched him handle Anthony Barr from UCLA. I watched him against Florida State. I watched him against Boise who has a good edge kid in Demarcus Lawrence. I think Bitonio will start day one at right tackle and I think he’ll be there at 34.”[/QUOTE]


I did see him mentioned as a first rounder in a couple of mocks but he certainly could be there at 34.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=punch it in;1070286]I did see him mentioned as a first rounder in a couple of mocks but he certainly could be there at 34.[/quote]

One mock draft I saw actually have the Redskins picking him with the 34th pick.....

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

a mock draft I like

[url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2052350-washington-redskins-mock-draft-final-6-round-predictions/page/2]Washington Redskins Mock Draft: Final 6-Round Predictions | Bleacher Report[/url]

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

London Fletcher to announce our first pick.
And he suggests it to be OL. (good call London)

[url=http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/London-Fletcher-Finally-Gets-His-%E2%80%98Draft-Experience%E2%80%99/b7a79d0b-2591-4bac-a5bd-297b43c632b0?campaign=social_20140507_23432334]London Fletcher Finally Gets His ‘Draft Experience’[/url]

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

I still say secondary is the biggest need. It's been the most inconsistent area on the team the past 2 - 3 years. Ryan Clark will bring some consistency, but what does he have left? Out of the entire secondary, Hall has provided the most consistency- but that doesn't say much about that unit. Every good defense has a good secondary. The Redskins have question marks everywhere in this unit. Time to try to really make this a strength again.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

There will be a good player that can upgrade the oline in the 3rd. In this draft, there's impact secondary players in reach with the 34th pick. I don't see that happening next year even in the first round. And pass rushers are the biggest boon or bust players in the draft. Just take that risk next year.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

I want us to stick to the trenches, o-line, d-line, ILB.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

Defense wins championships. To take it one step further, great physical secondaries can win championships. Seattle knows it's priorities and they have shown them by paying them well this past week.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

... Or we can just keep getting by on defense with a possible weak secondary and defense again. And hope that RGIII puts this team on his back again and ride him to a winning season.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

The most important positon on our defense is NT. We run a different defense than Seattle.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1070406]London Fletcher to announce our first pick.
And he suggests it to be OL. (good call London)

[url=http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/London-Fletcher-Finally-Gets-His-%E2%80%98Draft-Experience%E2%80%99/b7a79d0b-2591-4bac-a5bd-297b43c632b0?campaign=social_20140507_23432334]London Fletcher Finally Gets His ‘Draft Experience’[/url][/quote]

He actually left it pretty open, mentioning OL, ILB, and S, and obviously this was his thinking, not an inside scoop.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

I believe that the most important thing that the Redskins must do to win is to protect RGIII. We all know that RT has been an on-going problem. Unfotunately, the Skins were unable to come to a deal with a free agent RT they wanted, although they were able to sign some decent stop-gap players at several other positions of need.

To me, that all adds up to the Redskins finding a way in this draft to get that RT they need so much. If that means trading up (yes, I said trading [U]up[/U]), then I'm for it. I'm fine with having fewer picks if it means fixing the RT problem which I consider to be the Redskins' greatest need at this time.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

We could use one of those fancy tackling machines AKA ILB.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

I'm fine with BPA within our needs. And mostly I'm just tired of all the mocks and talk. Time to get this thing rolling for real!

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1070440]We could use one of those fancy tackling machines AKA ILB.[/quote]

True, but not at #34.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1070436]The most important positon on our defense is NT. We run a different defense than Seattle.[/quote]

... So that's why the Redskins defense couldn't stop anyone because our NT sucked. We should cut Cofield right now. That good for nothing...

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

I think it's more than the NT but the d-line/front 7 in general. Hatcher will help that and we need Chris Baker or whomever to help out as well. The 49ers NT isnt elite but their front 7 as a whole is

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=warriorzpath;1070443]... So that's why the Redskins defense couldn't stop anyone because our NT sucked. We should cut Cofield right now. That good for nothing...[/quote]

I don't think Cofield sucks but I think the trenches need to be steadily improved.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

I wouldn't mind adding a pass rushing D-linemen. I also wouldn't mind us trading up to get Ha Ha Clinton Dix either.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=warriorzpath;1070433]Defense wins championships. To take it one step further, great physical secondaries can win championships. Seattle knows it's priorities and they have shown them by paying them well this past week.[/quote]

Well, great defenses are just a part of one recipe for a SB. Because in addition to a great defense, Seattle has a consistent offense that can score points when they're needed and also run out the clock, as well as a solid special teams unit. And Denver made it to the SB by riding an offense that just crushed everyone with points. Sure, you can argue that they lost in the end, but the most important thing is that they made it there. San Francisco has a great defense, and they lost to the Ravens in the 2012 SB. The Ravens weren't great at anything, but solid everywhere and just got hot at the right time.

That list could go on. The point is that building a great defense isn't the only way to get to the SB. You can get there with pretty much any combination as long as you're solid overall.

That out of the way, I think you know I'll be happy going secondary at #34, especially if it's Verrett. I just want us to take a great player at a position of need who can contribute early and also in the long run. Really, really can't afford to flub this pick up. Honestly, a great RT makes the most sense at #34, because we won't be going to the SB for a few years yet even if things work out like they're supposed to; we might as well protect RG3 as he improves in the meantime and make sure he's still standing 5 years down the road. Please, Allen, just make a smart choice and I'll be happy.