Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1060087]Either sign Orakpo or draft his repalcement. KI you got me confused. You want your back up QB to be top notch and then go cheap at linebacker. I would do the opposite. Go top notch at LB and go cheap at back up QB. if we release Orakpo we could trade Cousins and use the pick we get for him to move up to draft another Orakpo type player.[/quote]

I'm not surprised that I confused you because I am very confused. The more I think about it, the more the idea of using up $11M of our 2014 cap space for one player stresses me out. Honestly, I don't know what to do. I'm just glad that I'm not making that decision.

Also, I think we need to find out if we have a good chance of signing Greg Hardy or Jairus Byrd (by taking advantage of the so-called "tampering window" at the Combine) before making a decision to use up 1/3 of our cap space for Brian Orakpo. I just want the the Skins to get the most impact for their cap dollars.

I'm not sure what I said before about Cousins (I probably went back and forth on the topic) but, given the strength of this draft class, I would be in favor of trading Cousins for a second round pick. I might even take a third and a player or an additional fourth or fifth round pick for him. But I'm not excited about trading him for anything less than that.

If Cousins is traded, we can get an adequate backup QB to replace him. I'm not concerned about that.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1060089]We should sign Connor Shaw to a free agent contract to take Cousins place.[/quote]

You don't think Shaw will be drafted late?

I like Shaw. I think he is underrated. He would be a good developmental QB, IMO.

I'd take Shaw but I'd also sign a veteran backup QB to replace Cousins in the short term..

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

So our biggest needs are DB and OL, but we might pay an OLB $11m? THat is a Vinny Cerratto move.
Over paying Orakpo because we are afraid to see him leave is weak. Orrakpo is not worth $8million a season, much less $11m. I would rather spend money to fix safety, offensive line and cb positions, where we have serious needs.

Interesting stat fact: The Seahawks defense dominated in 2013 and their team leader in sacks in regular season had 8.5 sacks. Ranked eighth in total team sacks, but they were first (by a long shot) in interceptions. Their secondary is big and fast. Our secondary is neither.
Team defense. Team sport. No weak links. Fix secondary and OL first.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Sidney Rice just cut by the Chickens.


No thanks.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Sidney Rice will be released. I wonder if we'll bring him in and have a look at him.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1060085]Bruce Allen said that he wanted to add [U]20[/U] new players to the team. That is a very large number of players to add in one offseason. If he indeed adds that many new players, more than half of them would probably be UFA's. That's going to require alot of cap space, which makes me wonder if signing Orakpo is a good idea for a team that finished 3-13 last season and is planning to make alot of personnel changes during the offseason.

I doubt that the Skins can or even want to sign Orakpo to a multi-year deal. So, to me, the only question for the Skins about Orakpo is "Can we improve the defense more by tagging Orakpo for $11M or by signing two mid-tier FA's to more favorable, longer-term contracts?".

[B]The Skins need alot of help on defense but we have Jackson and Jenkins at OLB, so the cupboard isn't bare at that position.[/B] I'm starting to wonder if the Skins might just let Orakpo walk in favor of picking up two good players at other positions.[/quote]

Jackson is a FA also, so technically we only have Jenkins. Jackson may be the better overall OLB, but still cant rush the passer as good as Orakpo. So it depends on what they want from the OLB's as to who to resign. If they are finally going to let the OLB's be a true pass rusher, as some reports have said, then Orakpo is the better choice. If they are only going to let them rush 60% of the time, then Jackson may be the better choice and will be cheaper.

The salary cap is going up in future years more that it has in the past. The new TV contracts go into effect this year and will hit the cap next year, and according to reports, those TV contracts are much larger than the ones that just expired (Plus the addition of one more since they recently signed a Thursday night contract). Some of that money has already been used up since it was brought forward to keep the cap from going down the last 2 or 3 years but the cap is still expected to make some jumps in the next few years. 11 mil for a player with a 120 mil cap is quite different than 11 mil with a 150 mil cap. The better GM's will have this in mind when signing long term contracts. Signing Orakpo to a 5 year contract at 11 mil per may be a steal in a couple of years depending on how high the cap goes.

Orakpo is going to get that since salaries are going to be going up as the cap does. Its actually probably better for Orakpo to be tagged and hit FA again next year where the price tag for a pass rusher will probably go up.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Skinzman, you made some very good points that put things in perspective for me. Particulary about how the Skins plan to use Orakpo and the future of the salary cap.

BTW, I was aware that Jackson is a FA. I just assumed that we'd be able to resign him at a reasonable rate. Then again, if he slips up just once and gets caught, he could be facing an indefinite suspension. Maybe I shouldn't count on him so much.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Ok if Denver cuts Champ and he doesnt retire.. imo i think hed be a good DEPTH signing and a great player like that finish his career where he started. Let em coach up Amerson a little bit give em a few tricks. Thoughts?

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Skins4L;1060199]Ok if Denver cuts Champ and he doesnt retire.. imo i think hed be a good DEPTH signing and a great player like that finish his career where he started. Let em coach up Amerson a little bit give em a few tricks. Thoughts?[/quote]

Nah! I'd pass on him.

[QUOTE=Skins4L;1060199]Ok if Denver cuts Champ and he doesnt retire.. imo i think hed be a good DEPTH signing and a great player like that finish his career where he started. Let em coach up Amerson a little bit give em a few tricks. Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

No way that Bailey ever signs with the Skins, or that the Skins would even offer him a contract.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Skins4L;1060199]Ok if Denver cuts Champ and he doesnt retire.. imo i think hed be a good DEPTH signing and a great player like that finish his career where he started. Let em coach up Amerson a little bit give em a few tricks. Thoughts?[/quote]

u watch the superbowl?

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Chico23231;1060206]u watch the superbowl?[/quote]

LOL, that was funny.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Yeah... Champ has gotten old. It happens to us all.

Does anyone know the franchise tag deadline?

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

March 3rd if anyone was wondering the deadline.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

A list of FA's I hope we take a look at:

Jeremy Maclin
James Jones
Kenny Brit

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

A list of FA's I hope we take a look at:

Jeremy Maclin
James Jones
Kenny Brit
Anthony Collins (knows Jay Gruden)
Ryan Harris (get for cheap, hope Tom Compton steps up)
Michael Johnson
Linval Joseph
Terence Cody
Brandon Spikes
Keenan Robinson (hope he stays healthy and shows up)
Taylor Mays (dumb it down, blitzing Safety/ILB)

Just to name a few.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;1060218]LOL, that was funny.[/quote]

Yea maybe your right. Game mighta passed him by.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

champ and danny aren't super friends, so i doubt that happens.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Rak and Jackson, if we let Jackson go he will be another Celmons and will be missed like big Lo.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1060262]Rak and Jackson, if we let Jackson go he will be another Celmons and will be missed like big Lo.[/quote]

I think you have a point on this one. I'm not too concerned with what happens if we don't resign Orakpo, you know his upside and what he can be as a pass rusher for another team. He is a "light" rush end with the potential to have about 10 sacks per yr.

With Jackson, his potential as a OLB has just been scratched. He's on every list of top free agent OLBs.
He was a 3 down backer, made plays in coverage, looked instinctual in the field, and there wasn't a considerable drop off in position play when he played the whole yr. Sacks were down but he made plays in other ways.

So, if you let him walk, you are still letting "one of yours" go via free agency.

Value is what the Skins need to evaluate in making the right decision on this one. It's possible they could keep them both but that would be very costly for one position.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=whistler;1060283]I think you have a point on this one. I'm not too concerned with what happens if we don't resign Orakpo, you know his upside and what he can be as a pass rusher for another team. He is a "light" rush end with the potential to have about 10 sacks per yr.

With Jackson, his potential as a OLB has just been scratched. He's on every list of top free agent OLBs.
He was a 3 down backer, made plays in coverage, looked instinctual in the field, and there wasn't a considerable drop off in position play when he played the whole yr. Sacks were down but he made plays in other ways.

So, if you let him walk, you are still letting "one of yours" go via free agency.

Value is what the Skins need to evaluate in making the right decision on this one. It's possible they could keep them both but that would be very costly for one position.[/quote]

What if we were to let Orakpo walk and re-sign Rob Jackson who then fails another drug test and is suspended indefinitely? My point is that there is more to risk than possibly over-paying for performance in the case of Jackson.

The Fred Davis debacle doesn't make taking the risk that Jackson won't slip up and be suspended look good. That is a risk you take with a star like Trent Williams, but not necessarily with a middling OLB like Jackson.

All of our points are probably moot, anyway. Bruce Allen has been forthright about his desire to keep Orakpo and he can whether he does so by way of a new contract or via the Franchise Tag.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1060287]What if we were to let Orakpo walk and re-sign Rob Jackson who then fails another drug test and is suspended indefinitely? My point is that there is more to risk than possibly over-paying for performance in the case of Jackson.

The Fred Davis debacle doesn't make taking the risk that Jackson won't slip up and be suspended look good. That is a risk you take with a star like Trent Williams, but not necessarily with a middling OLB like Jackson.

All of our points are probably moot, anyway. Bruce Allen has been forthright about his desire to keep Orakpo and he can whether he does so by way of a new contract or via the Franchise Tag.[/quote]

What if T. Williams fails another drug test? That's not a reason for anything. He's in the league and his price point is affected by past performance. Value, value, value!

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=whistler;1060290]What if T. Williams fails another drug test? That's not a reason for anything. He's in the league and his price point is affected by past performance. Value, value, value![/quote]

Williams is a Pro Bowl player. Jackson is pedestrian. It's not easy to find a Pro Bowl OLT. Run-of-the-mill OLB's are much easier to find. Those are the differences between them. And that's why a team might take a risk on a player like Williams and not take the same risk on a player like Jackson.

If you don't think that Jackson's drug suspension affects his value on the open market, then you are mistaken. Of course, if his value is lessened by his suspension, then the Redskins could conceivably sign him for less money than he would have otherwise commanded. On the other hand, the value of an indefinitely suspended player is zero.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1060295]Williams is a Pro Bowl player. Jackson is pedestrian. It's not easy to find a Pro Bowl OLT. Run-of-the-mill OLB's are much easier to find. Those are the differences between them. And that's why a team might take a risk on a player like Williams and not take the same risk on a player like Jackson.

If you don't think that Jackson's drug suspension affects his value on the open market, then you are mistaken. Of course, if his value is lessened by his suspension, then the Redskins could conceivably sign him for less money than he would have otherwise commanded. On the other hand, the value of an indefinitely suspended player is zero.[/quote]

Your reasoning makes T Williams an unbearable risk, by your standards. Since your talking about an indefinitely suspended player's value being zero, T Williams being one incident from an indefinite suspension, so, your saying his value is nearly worthless. Then the skins should draft another starting LT. Right?

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;1060219]Yeah... Champ has gotten old. It happens to us all.

Does anyone know the franchise tag deadline?[/quote]

Marty Booker

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=whistler;1060296]Your reasoning makes T Williams an unbearable risk, by your standards. Since your talking about an indefinitely suspended player's value being zero, T Williams being one incident from an indefinite suspension, so, your saying his value is nearly worthless. Then the skins should draft another starting LT. Right?[/quote]

No, I said that any player who is already indefinitely suspended is worthless to his team. That does not speak to how much risk a team might be willing to take by signing any given player who would face such a penalty if he were to fail another drug test.

Some players are worth more risk than other players. These two players are not of equal value. Williams is worth taking more risk for than Jackson. You either don't understand the concept of risk/reward or you value Jackson way too much.

Try it this way: First, forget about Williams, suspensions, etc. This started out as a discussion of the relative values of Orakpo and Jackson. So, if the choice is between these two players, then I say "yes" to Orakpo and "no" to Jackson because I think Orakpo is much more valuable to the team than Jackson. I would be happy to see the Skins sign Orakpo for tens of millions of dollars and it wouldn't bother me much if they didn't sign Jackson at all.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1060300]No, I said that any player who is already indefinitely suspended is worthless to his team. That does not speak to how much risk a team might be willing to take by signing any given player who would face such a penalty if he were to fail another drug test.

Some players are worth more risk than other players. These two players are not of equal value. Williams is worth taking more risk for than Jackson. You either don't understand the concept of risk/reward or you value Jackson way too much.

Try it this way: First, forget about Williams, suspensions, etc. This started out as a discussion of the relative values of Orakpo and Jackson. So, if the choice is between these two players, then I say "yes" to Orakpo and "no" to Jackson because I think Orakpo is much more valuable to the team than Jackson. I would be happy to see the Skins sign Orakpo for tens of millions of dollars and it wouldn't bother me much if they didn't sign Jackson at all.[/quote]

Thank goodness you aren't in the front office, there seems to be a talent recognition issue.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=whistler;1060301]Thank goodness you aren't in the front office, there seems to be a talent recognition issue.[/quote]

Apparently, Bruce Allen, Jay Gruden, and Jim Haslett must all have the same talent recognition disability that I have since they all have said that it is a top priority to sign Orakpo to a long-term contract.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=whistler;1060301]Thank goodness you aren't in the front office, there seems to be a talent recognition issue.[/quote]

Public negotiations, that's all.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1060300]No, I said that any player who is already indefinitely suspended is worthless to his team. That does not speak to how much risk a team might be willing to take by signing any given player who would face such a penalty if he were to fail another drug test.

Some players are worth more risk than other players. These two players are not of equal value. Williams is worth taking more risk for than Jackson. You either don't understand the concept of risk/reward or you value Jackson way too much.

Try it this way: First, forget about Williams, suspensions, etc. This started out as a discussion of the relative values of Orakpo and Jackson. So, if the choice is between these two players, then I say "yes" to Orakpo and "no" to Jackson because I think Orakpo is much more valuable to the team than Jackson. I would be happy to see the Skins sign Orakpo for tens of millions of dollars and it wouldn't bother me much if they didn't sign Jackson at all.[/quote]

This is spot on. I just hope we can get osackpo for 9.0 - 10.0 per year. Anything under 10.0 is a steal for orakpo, whom I believe still has his best days ahead of him.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Rak will be on the team either by being resigned or franchised. I am disappointed to hear that the Bills may re-franchise Byrd. It also looks that we will be competing with the Browns for a lot of free agents.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Seattle planning on releasing DE Red Bryant. He's only 29.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

If we signed Panthers free agents Greg Hardy and Mike Mitchell I would be ecstatic.

I would put Greg in a role similar to JJ Watt in our 3-4

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1060384]If we signed Panthers free agents Greg Hardy and Mike Mitchell I would be ecstatic.

I would put Greg in a role similar to JJ Watt in our 3-4[/quote]

I think they would be near perfect fits for our defense. Hardy would make it virtually impossible to contain our pass rush and Mitchell would anchor our secondary. Getting both of them would be a huge upgrade.

It would cost a bundle, though, and we have so many needs that it might not be realistic to think we could afford both of them.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1060403]I think they would be near perfect fits for our defense. Hardy would make it virtually impossible to contain our pass rush and Mitchell would anchor our secondary. Getting both of them would be a huge upgrade.

It would cost a bundle, though, and we have so many needs that it might not be realistic to think we could afford both of them.[/quote]

I agree that getting both would upgrade our defense greatly, but Mitchell is going to be resigned and Hardy will likely be tagged. I, too, would be ecstatic if we signed Mitchell, though; I think he has a lot of upside, and wouldn't cost as much as Ward.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1060384]If we signed Panthers free agents Greg Hardy and Mike Mitchell I would be ecstatic.

I would put Greg in a role similar to JJ Watt in our 3-4[/quote]

You'd be foolish to pay big time money for a guy to play a different role in a different defensive scheme. People, you can't just plug players in a slot and expect the same results. You'd think you'd know that after the Adam Archuleta deal. Buying a square piece and smashing him into a round hole.

Hardy benefits from having a tremendous D-line.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1060412]You'd be foolish to pay big time money for a guy to play a different role in a different defensive scheme. People, you can't just plug players in a slot and expect the same results. You'd think you'd know that after the Adam Archuleta deal. Buying a square piece and smashing him into a round hole.

Hardy benefits from having a tremendous D-line.[/quote]

We took Cofield and Carriker out of different schemes and they've adjusted fine.

What is it about Hardy that makes him unfit for a 3-4 DE? He is 290 lbs. after all. IMO he could be a quick, penetrating 3-4 end which is precisely what we need.

Alas, he likely isn't going anywhere anyway.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Lotus;1060415]We took Cofield and Carriker out of different schemes and they've adjusted fine.

What is it about Hardy that makes him unfit for a 3-4 DE? He is 290 lbs. after all. IMO he could be a quick, penetrating 3-4 end which is precisely what we need.

Alas, he likely isn't going anywhere anyway.[/quote]


Carriker was cheap, and Cofield wasn't that expensive. Cofield still isn't suited for the NT even though he's a hell of a job as a run stopper. We are talking about a 13mil+/yr salary for a guy you don't know will fit in your scheme. Comparing apples to oranges really.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1060418]Carriker was cheap, and Cofield wasn't that expensive. Cofield still isn't suited for the NT even though he's a hell of a job as a run stopper. We are talking about a 13mil+/yr salary for a guy you don't know will fit in your scheme. Comparing apples to oranges really.[/quote]

You sell Cofield short. Cofield has been a leading sacker from the NT position for a couple of years now. Cofield has thrived in a new scheme.

Moving from big 4-3 end to small 3-4 end is not as drastic as Archuleta's change. Hardy can kick ass in that role.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=SirLK26;1060406]I agree that getting both would upgrade our defense greatly, but Mitchell is going to be resigned and Hardy will likely be tagged. I, too, would be ecstatic if we signed Mitchell, though; I think he has a lot of upside, and wouldn't cost as much as Ward.[/quote]

Panthers have cap issues. Hardy wants a similar deal to what Charles Johnson got last year 6 years $76 mil. They can't afford both free agents, let alone both D-ends. To franchise Hardy it would cost $12 mil. Panthers also have 19 other players eligible for free agency.

Panthers have only $15 mil in cap space.