Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Kirk has also had enough of this .....
[IMG]http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/11/e31a053cde15a41d7c1d424d1a684f92.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=punch it in;1128282]How easy do you think it is as a second year qb with one start under ur belt to come off the bench and look good on a shit team like the 2013 Redskins?
He has made some real strides this year and was missing his number one wr, and his go to guy Reed for a while. He has zero run game behind him.[/quote]

What strides has he made? I guess you can say for a developmental prospect inconsistency is expected. Yes, he's gaining valuable experience this season. But Cousins is a one step forward, two steps back kind of player.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=NoCalHail;1128297]I am not sure what there currently is to "get" about Cousins. Are some people way too harsh on him? Of course, but at the same time [B]some of his supporters seem overly convinced he is destined for greatness[/B] based on what, I have no idea.

So far he has been middle of the road or perhaps a little less when grading against his peers. I don't think people pointing this out don't "get it" I don't think seeing him go in either direction from here would be a huge surprise either.[/quote]

Nobody posted in this thread that Kirk is destined for greatness. You used that exaggeration in an attempt to strengthen your own argument. Kirk's supporters here, myself included, have been saying that we think he can become a good NFL starter but not an elite QB. That's no knock on Kirk because there are only a few elite QB's. The idea is that we'll be able to win with a good but not great QB once Scot McCloughan builds a solid team around him.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=OmahaRedskins;1128308]What round do you start looking for a QB?[/quote]

Personally I think we can win with him but the team around him has to be better. I'd go the route of building up the team and maybe look at the 5th or 6th round.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1128298]If Turdk Cousins was a scratch off ticket, what would he be? I'd say a $2 dollar win[/quote]

I assume you typed his first name on purpose.

Whatever you think of his performance, Kirk Cousins has been a model citizen for the Redskins, and doesn't deserve your sophomoric attempt at humor. It's offensive and doesn't become you.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1128310]I don't intend any offense, but I disagree with the premise of the question.

With superior talent evaluators, which most here agree we have now, we should always take the best player available.

So the answer would be whatever round a QB is the best player available.[/quote]

You said it perfectly.

This team is weak all up and down the roster. We've got a few good players, but not a single superstar, and not nearly enough depth.

We simply need to continue the overhaul. We need better middle linebacking, more pass rush, lots of help in the secondary, a superstar WR would be nice if we could get our hands on one, we need upgrades everywhere.

D Hall should not be a starting CB in this league anymore, for example. Goldson is OK but winning defenses often have better players at that position. The defensive line hasn't been good despite being one of the deeper positions we have.

Not to mention, there's an element to this that could be on the coaches. Why aren't we run blocking better with Scherff in there this year? Did Lauvao mean that much? Long has had several years in this league and has been with this staff, why isn't he more impactful by now?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1128321]You said it perfectly.

This team is weak all up and down the roster. We've got a few good players, but not a single superstar, and not nearly enough depth.

We simply need to continue the overhaul. We need better middle linebacking, more pass rush, lots of help in the secondary, a superstar WR would be nice if we could get our hands on one, we need upgrades everywhere.

D Hall should not be a starting CB in this league anymore, for example. Goldson is OK but winning defenses often have better players at that position. The defensive line hasn't been good despite being one of the deeper positions we have.

Not to mention, there's an element to this that could be on the coaches. [B] Why aren't we run blocking better with Scherff in there this year? [/B] Did Lauvao mean that much? Long has had several years in this league and has been with this staff, why isn't he more impactful by now?[/quote]

On the other hand, perhaps our greatest team weakness last year was pass blocking, which is arguably the best part of the team this year. I believe I saw a statistic recently that the Skins are allowing fewer sacks per drop-back than any team in the league. That's remarkable. Did we have to trade run-blocking for pass-blocking? And if you had to choose between the two, which would it be?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1128321]You said it perfectly.

This team is weak all up and down the roster. We've got a few good players, but not a single superstar, and not nearly enough depth.

We simply need to continue the overhaul. We need better middle linebacking, more pass rush, lots of help in the secondary, a superstar WR would be nice if we could get our hands on one, we need upgrades everywhere.

D Hall should not be a starting CB in this league anymore, for example. Goldson is OK but winning defenses often have better players at that position. The defensive line hasn't been good despite being one of the deeper positions we have.

Not to mention, there's an element to this that could be on the coaches. Why aren't we run blocking better with Scherff in there this year? Did Lauvao mean that much? [B]Long has had several years in this league and has been with this staff, why isn't he more impactful by now?[/B][/quote]
Isn't Long a 2nd year player but essentially a rookie since he was still recovering from a knee injury his last year in college?

Either way, I agree overall with the premise that the roster as a whole needs an overhaul. It's going to be at least a 2 year process to purge some older/expensive players (bye bye this offseason to Hatcher, Garcon, Jackson, Riley to name a few) and bring in more via the draft and smart free agency.

I think there will be a number of QB on the market this offseason (Cutler, Stafford, Brees, Kap, RG3 to name a few) via trade or release but we shouldn't be in the market for any of them because we're not a QB away from being a contender.

How does that relate to Cousins? IMO, he's not the long term answer, he is a good backup to below average starter. He's Ryan Fitzpatrick...and that's not necessarily a bad thing. He will bounce around the league for 10+ years, win some games, maybe catch lightning in a bottle with the right team around him and have some success but ultimately be fools gold if you think he's a franchise QB.

BUT, for where we are and are going, he's the best roster option right now for 2016 and maybe 2017 while we look for our long term QB. I think while this is a weak draft class at QB, if there's value in the 2nd or 3rd round on a guy Scot thinks can be the long term solution.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=SCRedskinsFan;1128319]I assume you typed his first name on purpose.

Whatever you think of his performance, Kirk Cousins has been a model citizen for the Redskins, and doesn't deserve your sophomoric attempt at humor. It's offensive and doesn't become you.[/quote]

Are you attempting to polish him?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Are you attempting humor? Gotta say, not your strong suit.

Just stop it.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

I wonder how much criticism of Gruden and Cousins is because the offense has sucked again this season, and how much is due to people upset over Griffin's benching.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Coff;1128323]On the other hand, perhaps our greatest team weakness last year was pass blocking, which is arguably the best part of the team this year. I believe I saw a statistic recently that the Skins are allowing fewer sacks per drop-back than any team in the league. That's remarkable. Did we have to trade run-blocking for pass-blocking? And if you had to choose between the two, which would it be?[/quote]

The low sack number has a lot to do with Cousins getting rid of the ball much faster than Griffin did. The pass blocking is definitely better though - Moses this year has been a HUGE upgrade over what we had at RT last year. And Scherff is anchoring better than what we had last year.

But it's easy to get your sack numbers down when the ball comes out on time. That's the part of Cousins' game that gets underappreciated. He turns some over, but it's coming out quick. Fewer negative plays overall.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1128310]I don't intend any offense, but I disagree with the premise of the question.

With superior talent evaluators, which most here agree we have now, we should always take the best player available.

So the answer would be whatever round a QB is the best player available.[/quote]

I think it is very relevant. If you draft a QB in round one or two, you are giving up on KC. If you draft a QB in round three – seven you have to bring KC back and coach up the rookie while he is on the bench. If the team falls apart and we finish with three or four wins; I have no issues with using the first or second pick in the draft on a QB. If we draft a QB in the first round, the offense will be starting over, and Jay will be given another two years.
History shows QB’s drafted beyond the third round seldom pan out. When you have so many holes in the roster, I do not agree with drafting a QB this year, unless you are giving up on KC. In two or three years, I have no issue with drafting a QB in the later rounds.
I understand the theory around drafting the best player availed, but we are not good enough for this theory. We need to draft the best player available at a position of need. If you are bringing KC back, we should not use a pick on a QB.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Kirk's ability and the scheme's near over emphasis on getting the ball out quick without a doubt contributes to the low sack totals.

On the flip side, that same emphasis on getting the ball out quick and taking less sacks also leds to the league worst YPA and Cousin interception rate.

--On drafting a QB

I think we should draft a QB. I believe in the Ron Wolf philosophy that many west coast offenses follow: draft at least 1 QB somewhere in every draft. The beauty of drafting WCO QBs is that they don't require top level physical traits that 1st round QB's have. The number 1 trait for WCO QBs isn't "expensive" in terms of drafting early.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=OmahaRedskins;1128394] I understand the theory around drafting the best player availed, but we are not good enough for this theory. We need to draft the best player available at a position of need.[/quote]

Need is certainly factored in somewhat to determining best player available.

BPA is how teams become good and is the best way to build quality depth year in and year out.

Going into a draft determined on drafting a player at a certain position means the team is passing over more talented players at other positions to fill a need.

Taking the BPA every round in every draft builds quality depth across every position.

Every player on an NFL roster is one play away from a season ending injury. The way to be successful in the league is having really good football players that can be the next man up.

McLovin and I respectfully disagree with your draft strategy.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1128399]Need is certainly factored in somewhat to determining best player available.

BPA is how teams become good and is the best way to build quality depth year in and year out.

Going into a draft determined on drafting a player at a certain position means the team is passing over more talented players at other positions to fill a need.

Taking the BPA every round in every draft builds quality depth across every position.

Every player on an NFL roster is one play away from a season ending injury. The way to be successful in the league is having really good football players that can be the next man up.

McLovin and I respectfully disagree with your draft strategy.[/quote]

This is a great theory when you have a strong roster. When you are in rebuilding mode, you take the best player at a position of need. If you need a DB, Safety, Linebacker, and Receiver; you do not draft a Left Tackle because he is the best player available. I am confident Mclovin will agree with me.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

If we went with best player available we would not have draft Sheriff, we went with best player at a position of need.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=OmahaRedskins;1128403]If we went with best player available we would not have draft Sheriff, we went with best player at a position of need.[/quote]

Talent isn't the only consideration. McLovin looks at the entire package including character and work ethic when considering best player available.

Williams came in out of football shape after an entire offseason:

[url=http://nypost.com/2015/09/14/leonard-williams-realizes-hes-out-of-shape-after-jets-debut/]Leonard Williams realizes he’s out of shape after Jets debut | New York Post[/url]

He says in the article that they did team conditioning in college and conditioning was very much an individual thing in the NFL. Maybe McLovin picked up on this kind of thing and didn't want to chance it.

He may be great but is his work ethic as good as his talent? IDK, maybe McLovin didn't either and decided to take a talented guy who works his ass off, plays hurt and is 100% dedicated to football.

He basically says that he emphasizes character in this interview and will pass on a bigger, faster, stronger guy for a high character guy:

[url=http://www.hogshaven.com/2015/4/29/8518551/scot-mccloughan-on-redskins-draft-strategy-12-15-impact-players-in]Scot McCloughan on Redskins Draft Strategy, 12-15 Impact Players in this Year's Draft - Hogs Haven[/url]

Just because he didn't draft Williams doesn't mean he didn't draft the BPA based on his own(McLovin's) evaluations. His evaluation might not match Mel Kiper's, and that's totally fine.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=OmahaRedskins;1128401]This is a great theory when you have a strong roster. When you are in rebuilding mode, you take the best player at a position of need. If you need a DB, Safety, Linebacker, and Receiver; you do not draft a Left Tackle because he is the best player available. I am confident Mclovin will agree with me.[/quote]

Sorry dude, straight from the horse's mouth:

[url]https://youtu.be/v-CAZECL2nE?t=1433[/url]

BPA is a big tent with room for all. Welcome.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=30gut;1128395]
--On drafting a QB

I think we should draft a QB. I believe in the Ron Wolf philosophy that many west coast offenses follow: draft at least 1 QB somewhere in every draft. The beauty of drafting WCO QBs is that they don't require top level physical traits that 1st round QB's have. The number 1 trait for WCO QBs isn't "expensive" in terms of drafting early.[/quote]

I agree.

I believe McLovin is following this to some degree.

Generally, there isn't much separation between a 6th or 7th rounder and an UDFA. I acknowledge there are exceptions and I think we got one this year in Jarrett.

Signing Conner Halliday seemed like a good move at the time and in line with Wolf's philosophy.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1128407]Talent isn't the only consideration. McLovin looks at the entire package including character and work ethic when considering best player available.

Williams came in out of football shape after an entire offseason:

[url=http://nypost.com/2015/09/14/leonard-williams-realizes-hes-out-of-shape-after-jets-debut/]Leonard Williams realizes he’s out of shape after Jets debut | New York Post[/url]

He says in the article that they did team conditioning in college and conditioning was very much an individual thing in the NFL. Maybe McLovin picked up on this kind of thing and didn't want to chance it.

He may be great but is his work ethic as good as his talent? IDK, maybe McLovin didn't either and decided to take a talented guy who works his ass off, plays hurt and is 100% dedicated to football.

He basically says that he emphasizes character in this interview and will pass on a bigger, faster, stronger guy for a high character guy:

[url=http://www.hogshaven.com/2015/4/29/8518551/scot-mccloughan-on-redskins-draft-strategy-12-15-impact-players-in]Scot McCloughan on Redskins Draft Strategy, 12-15 Impact Players in this Year's Draft - Hogs Haven[/url]

Just because he didn't draft Williams doesn't mean he didn't draft the BPA based on his own(McLovin's) evaluations. His evaluation might not match Mel Kiper's, and that's totally fine.[/quote]

I never mentioned Williams, but thank you for making my point.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=OmahaRedskins;1128421]I never mentioned Williams, but thank you for making my point.[/quote]

Went for the low hanging fruit. Every talking head had him as the best player in the draft.

GM's looked at him differently.

He wasn't even the first defensive player taken.

Who was better than Sherff?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

If we go with your theory of drafting the best player on the board - Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota, Dante Fowler Jr, and Amria Cooper.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Kirk is getting better but he is just not going to be a franchise QB. A franchise QB can make things happen and create TD's out of nothing. They can carry the team on their shoulders. Kirk is going to be the transition guy until we draft the QB that we hope will take this team to the next level.

Overall the team is improving because of McLoving's first year at GM. We're still a year or more of new players to get up to the next level. I really like the way his insight has moved the team forward in less than one year.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=OmahaRedskins;1128403]If we went with best player available we would not have draft Sheriff, we went with best player at a position of need.[/quote]

In a way that's true.....the offensive line needed to be rebuilt. Leonard Williams was clearly the best player available. But McCloughan had already addressed the defensive line in free agency by signing Peah, Jean Francois, and Knighton....I don't think you ever spend a top five pick on a 3-4 defensive lineman unless it's a super stud nose tackle...... Sherif was the best pick at five only because the defensive line was already addressed.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=OmahaRedskins;1128423]If we go with your theory of drafting the best player on the board - Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota, Dante Fowler Jr, and Amria Cooper.[/quote]

It isn't my theory, did you watch McLovin say it on the Youtubes?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;1128429]In a way that's true.....the offensive line needed to be rebuilt. Leonard Williams was clearly the best player available. But McCloughan had already addressed the defensive line in free agency by signing Peah, Jean Francois, and Knighton....I don't think you ever spend a top five pick on a 3-4 defensive lineman unless it's a super stud nose tackle...... Sherif was the best pick at five only because the defensive line was already addressed.[/quote]

Please post the link to McLovin's scouting report on Williams since you've seen it. Or, at least tell us what it says.

Does it say he stays up all night before home games playing xbox? or he drinks 30 pepsi's a day. Or, maybe freakish talent, but lacks motivation to improve his game or engage in serious conditioning outside the group setting?

Why do you say he was? Because Mel Kiper says he was?

Dude came in out of shape after an entire offseason to do nothing but get in shape.

He might have the most talent, but that doesn't make him the best football player on the board when we picked.

You don't spend a top 5 pick on a guard either right?

Did you watch the Youtube clip with McLovin saying you draft the best player available?

Have you seen the interviews where he says character and work ethic are a huge factor in that determination?

Even with a with a mirandized, video taped confession in front of the DC media admitting to BPA:

[url]https://youtu.be/v-CAZECL2nE?t=1433[/url]

you guys are like the Michael Jackson fans waiting outside the courtroom during the trial.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;1128429]In a way that's true.....the offensive line needed to be rebuilt.[B] Leonard Williams was clearly the best player available[/B]. But McCloughan had already addressed the defensive line in free agency by signing Peah, Jean Francois, and Knighton....I don't think you ever spend a top five pick on a 3-4 defensive lineman unless it's a super stud nose tackle...... Sherif was the best pick at five only because the defensive line was already addressed.[/quote]
Perhaps SM failed to consult Kyper/Mcshay for his draft board selections......

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=A10sROCK;1128427]Kirk is getting better but he is just not going to be a franchise QB. A franchise QB can make things happen and create TD's out of nothing. They can carry the team on their shoulders. Kirk is going to be the transition guy until we draft the QB that we hope will take this team to the next level.

Overall the team is improving because of McLoving's first year at GM. We're still a year or more of new players to get up to the next level. I really like the way his insight has moved the team forward in less than one year.[/quote]

I agree with you for the most part. I don't think he is a Franchise QB talent either but I think he could be s solid starter for us for a number of years. I like the idea of drafting a promising QB every year or two, hoping to hit the jackpot.

Ever since SM was hired, I've been saying that it will take him three years to build a consistent winner. I haven't changed my mind on that.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1128432]Please post the link to McLovin's scouting report on Williams since you've seen it. Or, at least tell us what it says.

Does it say he stays up all night before home games playing xbox? or he drinks 30 pepsi's a day. Or, maybe freakish talent, but lacks motivation to improve his game or engage in serious conditioning outside the group setting?

Why do you say he was? Because Mel Kiper says he was?

Dude came in out of shape after an entire offseason to do nothing but get in shape.

He might have the most talent, but that doesn't make him the best football player on the board when we picked.

You don't spend a top 5 pick on a guard either right?

Did you watch the Youtube clip with McLovin saying you draft the best player available?

Have you seen the interviews where he says character and work ethic are a huge factor in that determination?

Even with a with a mirandized, video taped confession in front of the DC media admitting to BPA:

[url]https://youtu.be/v-CAZECL2nE?t=1433[/url]

you guys are like the Michael Jackson fans waiting outside the courtroom during the trial.[/quote]

He didn't draft him, did he? Okay then....

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=Hog1;1128433]Perhaps SM failed to consult Kyper/Mcshay for his draft board selections......[/quote]

Williams would have undoubtedly been a good pick....but Sherf was there. If the defensive line had been addressed in FA why draft a defensive lineman?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

excellent point.....

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

BTW....
Kirk is a Baddass!!
again today.....hopefully this is a trend

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Best game of Cousins's career today? Perhaps. No other way to look at this game than to say he simply went out there and balled his ass off. The Saints do have the worst defense in the league, but even in season's past this would be the king of game the 'Skins barely win 17-16 or something like that. The fact that they went out there and executed, were crisp, the effort.....just everything seemed to go right. We have a snapshot of what this offense can look like when everything is working.

Also, something I thought was impressive was that between Jackson and Garcon there was 4 catches made, all by Jackson. Most people would agree that if Garcon is getting 0 catches and Jackson only has 4 for minimal impact, the passing game would be in trouble, however we saw everyone else like Reed, Crowder, Carrier, etc etc not just contributing....but being effective and looking like weapons. Not to mention Chris Thompson. If he can stay healthy he looks to be a Sproles-type X factor.

The running game finally going made a world of difference and wow, welcome back to the offense Matt frickin' Jones!

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=NoCalHail;1128707]Best game of Cousins's career today? Perhaps. No other way to look at this game than to say he simply went out there and balled his ass off. The Saints do have the worst defense in the league, but even in season's past this would be the king of game the 'Skins barely win 17-16 or something like that. The fact that they went out there and executed, were crisp, the effort.....just everything seemed to go right. We have a snapshot of what this offense can look like when everything is working.

Also, something I thought was impressive was that between Jackson and Garcon there was 4 catches made, all by Jackson. Most people would agree that if Garcon is getting 0 catches and Jackson only has 4 for minimal impact, the passing game would be in trouble, however we saw everyone else like Reed, Crowder, Carrier, etc etc not just contributing....but being effective and looking like weapons. Not to mention Chris Thompson. If he can stay healthy he looks to be a Sproles-type X factor.

The running game finally going made a world of difference and wow, welcome back to the offense Matt frickin' Jones![/QUOTE]
I completely agree with everything you said!

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

You guys know we won because I said he's Pineapple Jesus right?

Long live this avatar!

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Kirk has played good lately maybe he is shutting me up

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1128715]Kirk has played good lately maybe he is shutting me up[/quote]

He has been very good at home this year. I want to see a good road performance now that we have had four good home performances out of him. No easy task against one of the best Ds in the league next week.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Who is Kirk ? the 2015 QB who left for more $$$$$$ and less ####

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[url]http://buzztap.com/-4mcwAV[/url]



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