Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

A lot of people are talking about how Cutler wont' be successful here with the shape our lines in but the funny thing is Denver had a pretty bad line themselves. In fact on paper they're definitely worse. Put it this way, the only guy from Denvers O-Line that would have started for us is Ryan Clady and he's geared to be a pro-bowler in the near future.

Now a lot is riding on Heyer and Rhinehart working their ass off this offseason and getting the proper technique they need to be effective, but I still suspect that part of the woes we had in pass protection were due to Campbell holding the ball to long. And if Cutler really is the quick decision maker that I think he is we will see a great improvement with our passing game.

The way I see it heres my priorities in building a team.

1. QB
2. D-Line
3. O-Line
4. Running Back
5. Linebackers
6. Secondary
7. Recievers/Tight End
8. Specialist

As you can see here as much as I love the O-line the fact remains that 25 year old pro-bowl level QB's don't come often and with one we might finally be able to break the spell of mediocraty.

Don't get me wrong Campbell is good, but in order to really take the Super Bowl talk seriously we need someone that can bring our offense to the next level. Someone that can make our recievers effective (I mean seriously do you think Eddie Royal was really that good of a pick?). Someone that will help make the box less crowded for Portis, Betts, and Sellers. Someone thats comprable to Romo, Eli, and McNabb. I honestly believe that Cutler is that guy and going after him is a risk we almost have to take.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;541709]A lot of people are talking about how Cutler wont' be successful here with the shape our lines in but the funny thing is Denver had a pretty bad line themselves. In fact on paper they're definitely worse. Put it this way, the only guy from Denvers O-Line that would have started for us is Ryan Clady and he's geared to be a pro-bowler in the near future. [/quote]You probably shouldn't go there. Denver has a young line, but they have two pro-bowlers on it, and either of their Guards would have been the most valuable lineman on our team last year. They only place we might be better than them, ironically, is RT.

Although I'd still take a healthy Samuels over Clady, he's likely going to be an injury risk for the remainder of his career.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=GTripp0012;541710]You probably shouldn't go there. Denver has a young line, but they have two pro-bowlers on it, and either of their Guards would have been the most valuable lineman on our team last year. They only place we might be better than them, ironically, is RT.

Although I'd still take a healthy Samuels over Clady, he's likely going to be an injury risk for the remainder of his career.[/quote]

Your right. I forgot that Casey Wiegmann went to the pro bowl. Alright so we win 3-2 Dockery, Thomas (I still say he's better then Hamilton), and Samuels would all start in a Broncos-Redskins merger. Wiegmann and Clady would represent the Broncos but Clady would move over to RT.

Funny though. I guess Centers really are the second most important position on the line.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=djnemo65;541466]It's getting really difficult to defend this team. In the past, we've been willing to sacrifice depth at critical positions by trading draft picks for players who, while perhaps looking good on paper, couldn't come in and play right guard in late November after injuries had thinned the roster. This willingness to forgo depth in order to bring in older guys, rather than merely the signing of free agents, has been the problem. This year, although many were quick to describe our free agency binge as certain to yield predictable results, I argued that coupled with a renewed focus on the draft, adding key players at positions of need was not the same old Redskins.

If this goes down, and that's a big if, this is worse than the same old Skins. Worse than Deion Sanders, worse than anything. Nothing against Cutler, who appears to be a genuine talent, but this team has needs he can't fix. Last year through 8 games, Jason Campbell was being discussed as a potential MVP candidate. When the offense line predictably fell apart with injuries, the entire execution of the offense unraveled. It appeared to be clear to even the most casual NFL fan: fix the offensive line and then you'll see what you have at QB.

In trading for Cutler, we are postponing our ability to fix and replenish the line through the draft so far into the future that you have to wonder if it can ever actually happen with this team. More importantly, we are signaling to anyone paying attention that through 12 years of bumbling front-office ineptitude, we have not learned a single thing. In bailing on the QB he drafted and groomed, I think the Skins are saying all that needs to be said about the stability that Joe Gibbs brought back here.[/quote]

Basically this is gonna happen and this fing sucks. I am sick of it. I really just want to cry.

I cant freaking believe it. After all this patience bullshit VC and DS f up again. God these people have some serious problems. These guys just cant wait, and build something they want to see a overnight turnover. ARGHHHHHHHH I cant take it. I dont want to renounce my fanhood but this is really pushing it for me.

We are gonna lose a sweet ass LB or Olineman at 13 plus a 2nd AND JC. This is outta control :doh:

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;541709][B]A lot of people are talking about how Cutler wont' be successful here with the shape our lines in but the funny thing is Denver had a pretty bad line themselves.[/B] In fact on paper they're definitely worse. Put it this way, the only guy from Denvers O-Line that would have started for us is Ryan Clady and he's geared to be a pro-bowler in the near future.

Don't get me wrong Campbell is good, but in order to really take the Super Bowl talk seriously we need someone that can bring our offense to the next level. Someone that can make our recievers effective (I mean seriously do you think Eddie Royal was really that good of a pick?). Someone that will help make the box less crowded for Portis, Betts, and Sellers. Someone thats comprable to Romo, Eli, and McNabb. [B] I honestly believe that Cutler is that guy and going after him is a risk we almost have to take[/B].[/quote]

I don't care what names they have there. They only allowed 12 sacks (11 on Cutler) for the year compared to our 38. Individuals aside, as a unit their line was better than ours. Also where is our Bradon Marshall because he's not following Cutler in this deal. Cutler won't have the same personnel so his personal stats aren't necessarily going to translate to our team.


If Culter is a risk that we almost have to take then what was it when we moved up to the 1st round, after drafting Rogers in the 1st, and drafted Campbell in '05? We've already assumed our risk with our current QB and there is no need for adding additional risk and instability to our franchise.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

two first rounders? That means Culter MUST be our QB for the next 10+ years without a doubt.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

As mentioned we moved up to the first round for Campbell, so if we traded Campbell along with Denvers apparent demands we are giving them THREE first round picks.

That is insane. The amount of talent for three picks does not equate to Cutler. I guess the good thing is we can call him JC too....

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=hooskins;541712]
We are gonna lose a sweet ass LB or Olineman at 13 plus a 2nd AND JC. This is outta control :doh:[/quote]

Lol, thats if they let us off easy.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=hooskins;541714]two first rounders? That means Culter MUST be our QB for the next 10+ years without a doubt.[/quote]

The Broncos got what they wanted. They got the Redskins involved and now the price is through the roof for a player that is a problem for them. You'd think they'd have to relent on their demands since they are initiating trade talks for their problem.

How do they do it? Must be nice. Where are the Skins when we are looking trade value?

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;541713]I don't care what names they have there. They only allowed 12 sacks (11 on Cutler) for the year compared to our 38. Individuals aside, as a unit their line was better than ours. Also where is our Bradon Marshall because he's not following Cutler in this deal. Cutler won't have the same personnel so his personal stats aren't necessarily going to translate to our team.


If Culter is a risk that we almost have to take then what was it when we move up to the 1st round, after drafting Rogers in the 1st, and draft Campbell in '05? We've already assumed our risk with our current QB and there is no need for adding additional risk and instability to our franchise.[/quote]

Good post Tee. If Campbell had Marshall and was only sacked 12 times we would have been in the playoffs last year.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

We've basically priced out the entire market because of Dip Shit's stupid hard-on for signings. Who the heck else can afford or is stupid enough to drop so much.. Now the Broncos have a monopolistic market in which to price, as Dip Shit is willing to pay whatever for his fix. I swear if we get rid of Cooley I will not be a fan anymore.

I guess eventually this won't matter when the salary cap expires and Dip Shit can make us the Yankees of the NFL.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

I see posts talking about Campbell being good, but not good enough to take us all the way to the Superbowl. Superbowl? Shouldn't we try and win a playoff game first?

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=hooskins;541722]We've basically priced out the entire market because of Dip Shit's stupid hard-on for signings. Who the heck else can afford or is stupid enough to drop so much.. Now the Broncos have a monopolistic market in which to price, as Dip Shit is willing to pay whatever for his fix. I swear if we get rid of Cooley I will not be a fan anymore.

I guess eventually this won't matter when the salary cap expires and Dip Shit can make us the Yankees of the NFL.[/quote]

And if we don't get Cutler were screwed cause Campbell is entering a lame duck year with a team who has no faith in him. And its looking like there's no way that Sanchez falls to us at # 13. Bye bye 2009, Hello Colt.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=djnemo65;541723]I see posts talking about Campbell being good, but not good enough to take us all the way to the Superbowl. Superbowl? Shouldn't we try and win a playoff game first?[/quote]

True that.

People said that about Marty Schottenheimer. "He can take you to the Conference Championship but he can't win a Super Bowl"...Was that a bad thing?

I'd love to be talked about in the playoffs while 2/3rds of the teams sat at home and watched you play. We've won more high profile free agent contracts in the last 5 years than playoff games.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

i am so sick of this team, give up draft picks for another teams player. Cutler hasnt won any thing yet in this league and too give up 2 1st round picks is insane. Now with all these rumors going around about the skins persuing Cutler, makes our situation dicey if we dont get him. I am sick of the way our FO does business

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=FRPLG;541423]If this goes down my long standing position in general support of the Dan will be extremely shaken. This is simply not a smart move in my opinion. I fail to see a reasonable way this goes down from this point that makes our team better. I am pretty disappointed right now.[/quote]

This is EXACTLY how I feel. Well said!

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=djnemo65;541723]I see posts talking about Campbell being good, but not good enough to take us all the way to the Superbowl. Superbowl? Shouldn't we try and win a playoff game first?[/quote]

Good point. Unfortunately the Skins are closer to the Bengals than the Steelers. I dont see JC even taking the Skins to the playoffs. I think Cutler for JC is an obvious upgrade at QB and dont really have a problem with the Skins making this move but I'd prefer to see the Skins hold on to their picks. Denver's problem wasnt O last year and I cant imagine that Cutler can do a lot to get the Skins O moving.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=irish;541733]Good point. Unfortunately the Skins are closer to the Bengals than the Steelers. I dont see JC even taking the Skins to the playoffs. I think Cutler for JC is an obvious upgrade at QB and dont really have a problem with the Skins making this move but I'd prefer to see the Skins hold on to their picks. Denver's problem wasnt O last year and I cant imagine that Cutler can do a lot to get the Skins O moving.[/quote]

Yeah, Cutler for Campbell would be an upgrade, but that is not a Redskins trade. The Redskins have overpaid in every trade they have made in the DS era and if they make a move for Cutler they will give up a king's ransom. It will be a package of picks, maybe some young players, something that makes no sense and hurts the team in the long term. That is the Skins formula for trades. And the Broncos have benefited more than most. The only decent trade they have made was the one with Atlanta during the draft last year. Your "I don't even see JC taking the Skins to the playoffs" is a patently ridiculous statement btw.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;541735]Yeah, Cutler for Campbell would be an upgrade, but that is not a Redskins trade. The Redskins have overpaid in every trade they have made in the DS era and if they make a move for Cutler they will give up a king's ransom. It will be a package of picks, maybe some young players, something that makes no sense and hurts the team in the long term. That is the Skins formula for trades. And the Broncos have benefited more than most. The only decent trade they have made was the one with Atlanta during the draft last year. Your "I don't even see JC taking the Skins to the playoffs" is a patently ridiculous statement btw.[/quote]

JC hasent really done anything to show me that he could lead the team to the playoffs but anything can happen.

The Skins also gave up a ton to get Campbell and like you said, its how the skins do business. I have really stopped caring how the Skins do business all I am looking for is a team that can win now so if Cutler can do that then bring him on.

The Skins have become an organization that is sucking the life out of its fans. They dont seem to have a plan and most things they do seem to turn to crap.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

I originally wanted Cutler but not for 2 first rounders. Thats absured.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

I finally read through this whole d*** thread, and I still hate it. I must have some sado-masachistic tendency to have actually read it all. So here is now my post april fools trade prediction:
Cutler to the Skins (thats all we need folks)

denver gets: Campbell, Haynesworth, Rodgers, our 13th and next years draft

in honesty, I hope they were stuck in Danny's office all day, with Zorn and Cerrato holding him hostage and cut off all phone lines so he could not call Pat Bowlen. In fact, Danny needs to lose all phone priveleges until May 1st!!!

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=irish;541736]JC hasent really done anything to show me that he could lead the team to the playoffs but anything can happen.

The Skins also gave up a ton to get Campbell and like you said, its how the skins do business. I have really stopped caring how the Skins do business all I am looking for is a team that can win now so if Cutler can do that then bring him on.

[b]The Skins have become an organization that is sucking the life out of its fans. They dont seem to have a plan and most things they do seem to turn to crap.[/b][/quote]

Well we can certainly agree on that point.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

The greatest part is, not only are we willing to throw our draft at a non-issue, but this is the chance that Blache has been waiting for: he can now dump Rogers and get his boy Smoot back into the starting lineup! Alright!

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

I am so tired of this team. Trade Cooley? What a disaster that would be. My interest and passion for this team wanes with every year because they do drain the life out of its fans and have no plan to build a winning team. If this trade for Cutler happens my interest, support and love for this team will be dealt a blow that will likely result in my losing interest in th e team and the NFL. I am just so tired of the endless meandering.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=GTripp0012;541741]The greatest part is, not only are we willing to throw our draft at a non-issue, but this is the chance that Blache has been waiting for: he can now dump Rogers and get his boy Smoot back into the starting lineup! Alright![/quote]

But having Smoot at corner will protect Hall from getting exploited. Teams will avoid him like his name was Nnamdi Asamougha because they will be so busy attacking Smoot. Hell, Hall will probably get a return trip to Hawaii. DS can brag about the major coup of resigning Hall! DeAngelo Hall jerseys will fill every Redskins store. Meanwhile he can sell some Cutler replica jerseys (with a free Jason Campbell jersey with every purchase!) while the team goes 5-11. Master plan baby!

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

This is insane. We need Jay Cutler like we all need a hole in our head. 2 1st rounders? Umm...thanks but no thanks. Let's give JC the benefit of the doubt that he is our franchise qb and not to mention its a contract year...the idea of a huge raise really does something to one's motivation.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;541743]But having Smoot at corner will protect Hall from getting exploited. Teams will avoid him like his name was Nnamdi Asamougha because they will be so busy attacking Smoot. Hell, Hall will probably get a return trip to Hawaii. DS can brag about the major coup of resigning Hall! DeAngelo Hall jerseys will fill every Redskins store. Meanwhile he can sell some Cutler replica jerseys (with a free Jason Campbell jersey with every purchase!) while the team goes 5-11. Master plan baby![/quote]NFL teams seem to be equal opportunity exploiters.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=vaoutlaws2006;541744]This is insane. We need Jay Cutler like we all need a hole in our head. 2 1st rounders? Umm...thanks but no thanks. Let's give JC the benefit of the doubt that he is our franchise qb and not to mention its a contract year...the idea of a huge raise really does something to one's motivation.[/quote]

Why is everyone so jacked up about giving away draft pick? The Skins have been gioving away draft picks like Xmas presents for years. If keeping draft picks means the Skins are going to use them on 2 worthless WRs like they did last year I say use them for an upgrade to the most important position on the field.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=irish;541749]Why is everyone so jacked up about giving away draft pick? The Skins have been gioving away draft picks like Xmas presents for years. If keeping draft picks means the Skins are going to use them on 2 worthless WRs like they did last year I say use them for an upgrade to the most important position on the field.[/quote]

That attitude is always a losing strategy. Teams that don't value draft picks properly are not successful in the NFL, bottom line. You said above that you have stopped caring about how the Redskins "do business" but clearly you must recognize that how they "do business" directly correlates to their lack of success on the field.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

I stepped outside this morning and its official...the sky is falling.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;541753]That attitude is always a losing strategy. Teams that don't value draft picks properly are not successful in the NFL, bottom line. You said above that you have stopped caring about how the Redskins "do business" but clearly you must recognize that how they "do business" directly correlates to their lack of success on the field.[/quote]

I was being sarcastic and that doesnt come thru well in this format. The Skins have been giving away draft pick for years (remember TJ Duckett?), getting zip in return, and nobody was bothered. In fact many said the draft was too unpredictable and no guarantee of getting good players. When I pointed out that successful teams like the Steelers highly value their picks and build thru the draft while the Skins way wasnt working, I was called stupid, a know-nothing, not a real skins fan, etc. Now everyone seems to think giving away picks is a big deal and I think its funny. The Skins way of doing business does directly correlate to their lack of success on the field and I think Skins fans may be starting to realize that.

That said, I think this is actually a good use of draft picks since it will provide the Skins a big upgrade at the position that has been holding the O back.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

I think

-A lot of the people here preaching patience are being quite hypocritical considering how so many of us want to cut Malcolm Kelly and Devin Thomas now because of their lack of production their rookie season

-I don't fault the Redskins for looking for ways they think could make the team better

-I think this is less about Cutler and more about a lack of absolute faith in Campbell. And, as much as I like Campbell, when you look around and see the success some of his peers have had it's hard not to get frustrated.

-I don't know that Cutler is a franchise QB per se (mainly because I haven't figured out how I'd define that), but at this point I think he's better than Campbell and that will probably continue, no matter how good Campbell gets

-The sky isn't falling, and people have to stop assuming we're trading every player on our roster. "Oh my God!!! I can't believe we're trading Cooley. This sucks, Everything sucks!!!!"

-My gut (I've lost considerable weight lately, so it may not be speaking as loudly anymore) tells me that Cutler isn't coming here. We can't and don't want to offer as much as some other teams are reportedly offering

-If there is any way at all to get Cutler and keep our #13 overall pick (Oher!!!), I'd do it

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=irish;541764]That said, I think this is actually a good use of draft picks since it will provide the Skins a big upgrade at the position that has been holding the O back.[/quote]I understand a lot of people are skeptical that Hixon can teach anyone to play receiver, much less a career quarterback. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=SmootSmack;541594]What's upsetting people the most about this alleged deal? Is it losing draft picks potentially? Is it just the idea of change again?[/quote]

What's pissing me off the most is I know for a fact that we're going to overpay for Cutler. History shows that we're not capable of getting the better end of any trade....so I assume it's going to be our #1 pick plus a player. IMO it's not worth it.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=SmootSmack;541587]Yeah, I'd like to think they're pretty reliable. I'm not saying his teammates dislike him, or even that it's all his teammates. Just that the organization hasn't rallied around him the way you'd like to see. Some think it's Campbell's fault to an extent, because of the way he is. [B]He's not the rah-rah, follow me to freedom kind of guy.[/[/B]quote]

Well if that's the case then I think it's very sad.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

Really now. Who expects merely two first rounders to be traded for Jay Cutler? Jerruh has already raised the price by trading two firsts for Roy Williams, and Cutler is, or at least is perceived to be, worth far more than Williams.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=irish;541764]I was being sarcastic and that doesnt come thru well in this format. The Skins have been giving away draft pick for years (remember TJ Duckett?), getting zip in return, and nobody was bothered. In fact many said the draft was too unpredictable and no guarantee of getting good players. When I pointed out that successful teams like the Steelers highly value their picks and build thru the draft while the Skins way wasnt working, I was called stupid, a know-nothing, not a real skins fan, etc. Now everyone seems to think giving away picks is a big deal and I think its funny. The Skins way of doing business does directly correlate to their lack of success on the field and I think Skins fans may be starting to realize that.

That said, I think this is actually a good use of draft picks since it will provide the Skins a big upgrade at the position that has been holding the O back.[/quote]
Easy............Yoda, your self-righteousness, and delusions of grandeur are spinning out of control..........

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Hog1;541773]Easy............Yoda, your self-righteousness, and delusions of grandeur are spinning out of control..........[/quote]

Easy.....Porky, I have no delusions of grandeur, just calling them like I see them.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=irish;541764]I was being sarcastic and that doesnt come thru well in this format. The Skins have been giving away draft pick for years (remember TJ Duckett?), getting zip in return, and nobody was bothered. In fact many said the draft was too unpredictable and no guarantee of getting good players. When I pointed out that successful teams like the Steelers highly value their picks and build thru the draft while the Skins way wasnt working, I was called stupid, a know-nothing, not a real skins fan, etc. Now everyone seems to think giving away picks is a big deal and I think its funny. The Skins way of doing business does directly correlate to their lack of success on the field and I think Skins fans may be starting to realize that.

That said, I think this is actually a good use of draft picks since it will provide the Skins a big upgrade at the position that has been holding the O back.[/quote]But now you're stupid, know nothing, etc, whatever you want to be called for a different reason. It's because while you value the draft picks themselves, you also have to value the young players they become. If you don't do that, then you're not following the Steelers model, you're following your own, "I'm always right no matter what" model. I don't like that, of course. But you're entirely allowed to believe what you want. But when you try to be pseudo knowledgable, people are going to say mean things to you. I know I probably will.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

"Even if JC flops this year, we still have Colt Brennan who has shown flashes whenever he's gotten to play. And Todd Collins has proven a reliable backup. Cutler is too costly - emotionally and in terms of draft picks. Plus, JC is well liked by his teammates, so I hear. O-line is O for OLD and we will need a running back soon. Don't mortgage the franchise when you don't need to."