Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;770894]Do you really think McNabb will be here next year? They really made it sound like he is on is way out...but i know how the media gets at times...[/quote]

The team holds a $10 million contract option for 2011 that they can exercise until the first game of the season, or they can release him and owe him nothing. If McNabb is on the roster next year [which seems highly doubtful based on recent events] he would earn approx. $16.25 million. He would have to give back a portion or all of the $3.5 million bonus for the Redskins to consider releasing him.

Don't look for the team to pay him $10 million before he plays a game in 2011 should he still be on the roster. Expect McNabb to seek other options.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Longtimefan;770927]The team holds a $10 million contract option for 2011 that they can exercise until the first game of the season, or they can release him and owe him nothing. If McNabb is on the roster next year [which seems highly doubtful based on recent events] he would earn approx. $16.25 million. He would have to give back a portion or all of the $3.5 million bonus for the Redskins to consider releasing him.

Don't look for the team to pay him $10 million before he plays a game in 2011 should he still be on the roster. Expect McNabb to seek other options.[/quote]

By that account, I dont see any reason why we'd do anything other than try to trade him... if we have all the way up until the begining of next season, would we just have him walk?

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Gmanc711;770929]By that account, I dont see any reason why we'd do anything other than try to trade him... if we have all the way up until the begining of next season, would we just have him walk?[/quote]

Donovan has no guarantee after 2010. Just what plans the Redskins have for him at this time are unknown. They have until the first game of the 2011 season to make their decision known. Reasonable assumption suggest a decision will be reached long before then, but I would think Donovan and his agent have their own plans for his future. Exactly how their plans will be implemented remains a mystery.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

From the WaPo's resident provider of sunshine and lollypops Sally Jenkins:

The word from inside Redskins Park was that the Shanahans have been frustrated for weeks by the fact that McNabb either couldn't or wouldn't absorb Kyle Shanahan's offense and make the correct reads, and that he only wanted to do the things that made him comfortable. His inflexibility limited the play-calling options, and his inconsistency too often put them in difficult long-yardage situations. Hence, he never improved in 13 games. Those judgments now seem correct.

The word from the McNabb side is that the Shanahans didn't do enough to accommodate his improvisational talents, that Kyle Shanahan still has a lot to learn that he didn't do enough to make the freelance-happy McNabb more effective, and also protect him from sacks behind a vulnerable line. Perhaps a valid point, given that Grossman was sacked five times.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Paintrain;770953]From the WaPo's resident provider of sunshine and lollypops Sally Jenkins:

The word from inside Redskins Park was that the Shanahans have been frustrated for weeks by the fact that McNabb either couldn't or wouldn't absorb Kyle Shanahan's offense and make the correct reads, and that he only wanted to do the things that made him comfortable. His inflexibility limited the play-calling options, and his inconsistency too often put them in difficult long-yardage situations. Hence, he never improved in 13 games. Those judgments now seem correct.

The word from the McNabb side is that the Shanahans didn't do enough to accommodate his improvisational talents, that Kyle Shanahan still has a lot to learn that he didn't do enough to make the freelance-happy McNabb more effective, and also protect him from sacks behind a vulnerable line. Perhaps a valid point, given that Grossman was sacked five times.[/quote]
Man...this sounds soooo eerily similar to AH's complaints it's scary......it's just that McNabb was classier....

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

^ you know maybe 5 never really wanted to play in Wsh, maybe he wanted to go to Minnesota but Philly didn't want to trade him there?

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;770955]Man...this sounds soooo eerily similar to AH's complaints it's scary......it's just that McNabb was classier....[/quote]

I think it's very clear that Shanny, father and son, are very much setting up a my way or highway approach to the roster. If Fat Al and Mc5 are sacrifices and we end up with a roster of winners, so be it. It had just better not backfire on them.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

Re Sally Jenkins article: have heard the Redskins Park side since August, first I heard that McNabb was complaining

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=drew54;770919]You mean the decision making done by the QB, and his ability to hit the targeted receiver?[/quote]

no as in the actual play selection. when have we run that many screens or end a rounds to moss? it was a very different style today. i'm taking nothing from rex, he did have a pretty good game, but this was one of the most well called games by kyle thus far.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=mlmdub130;770971]no as in the actual play selection. when have we run that many screens or end a rounds to moss? it was a very different style today. i'm taking nothing from rex, he did have a pretty good game, but this was one of the most well called games by kyle thus far.[/quote]


I suppose if Sally is right, then better play calling and execution was on display today.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=mlmdub130;770971]no as in the actual play selection. when have we run that many screens or end a rounds to moss? it was a very different style today. i'm taking nothing from rex, he did have a pretty good game, but this was one of the most well called games by kyle thus far.[/quote]

KS was probably able to dig deeper into his bag of tricks with Rex's expanded knowledge of the offense.

The offense was scaled back for DM.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=mlmdub130;770971]no as in the actual play selection. when have we run that many screens or end a rounds to moss? it was a very different style today. i'm taking nothing from rex, he did have a pretty good game, but this was one of the most well called games by kyle thus far.[/quote]

it was probably a better called game because grossman understands the playbook better than mcnabb, thus kyle can call the plays he really wants to and does not feel "hindered" by his QB.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Paintrain;770953]

The word from the McNabb side is that the Shanahans didn't do enough to accommodate his improvisational talents, that Kyle Shanahan still has a lot to learn that he didn't do enough to make the freelance-happy McNabb more effective, and also protect him from sacks behind a vulnerable line. Perhaps a valid point, given that Grossman was sacked five times.[/quote]

Yeah, I'm sorry but if he can't hang with a new offensive scheme, maybe it [I]is [/I]time he packed it in. I realize he tends to fare better on-the-fly, but I seriously don't think he's good enough to be insisting that the offense be built around his improv skills. The dude's not Michael Vick.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Paintrain;770953]From the WaPo's resident provider of sunshine and lollypops Sally Jenkins:

The word from inside Redskins Park was that the Shanahans have been frustrated for weeks by the fact that McNabb either couldn't or wouldn't absorb Kyle Shanahan's offense and make the correct reads, and that he only wanted to do the things that made him comfortable. His inflexibility limited the play-calling options, and his inconsistency too often put them in difficult long-yardage situations. Hence, he never improved in 13 games. Those judgments now seem correct.

The word from the McNabb side is that the Shanahans didn't do enough to accommodate his improvisational talents, that Kyle Shanahan still has a lot to learn that he didn't do enough to make the freelance-happy McNabb more effective, and also protect him from sacks behind a vulnerable line. Perhaps a valid point, given that Grossman was sacked five times.[/quote]

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/19/AR2010121903982.html?hpid=artslot]Redskins vs. Cowboys: Shanahans lose a game, but win Donovan McNabb-Rex Grossman argument[/url]

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Mattyk;770882]He could, but the more realistic plan to me is to get a rookie in there by the middle of the season. The days of sitting a rookie for even for just one season are long over with.[/quote]

8 games? W/e qb we pick, I don't think he'll be as highly regarded as Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Matthew Stafford, Mark Sanchez, or Sam Bradford, but if he impresses in training camp and preseason I don't see why the coaching staff wouldn't make him the starter from day 1. Like you said the days of giving them a year on the bench or more are gone unless they were drafted later on and still had a lot to learn. But if we take a guy in the first round I wouldn't be suprised if he was the starter from day 1, recent evidence has shown that putting a guy in there early and letting him take his lumps hasn't proven to be a bad thing.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Mattyk;770367]One thing that kinda irks me... Let's not act like it's all roses for JC out in Oakland, he's been yanked in and out of the lineup several times this year and hasn't exactly cemented his status as their long term answer.[/quote]

I think JC has played pretty decent in Oakland. The going back and forth with Gradkowski was more coaches than performance. Jason played well enough to keep the job when Gradkowski was hurt. Jason was benched after playing pittsburg, and unless your name is Brady, Pittsburg has a way of making most NFL QB's look not so good. HE has played well enough that they are at least still in the running for a playoff spot.
Looking at his stats, he is on pace for around 2500 yards 13 to 15 TD's and around 10 INTs. That is not playing in 3 games, so no too bad stats.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=#56fanatic;771033]I think JC has played pretty decent in Oakland. The going back and forth with Gradkowski was more coaches than performance. Jason played well enough to keep the job when Gradkowski was hurt. Jason was benched after playing pittsburg, and unless your name is Brady, Pittsburg has a way of making most NFL QB's look not so good. HE has played well enough that they are at least still in the running for a playoff spot.
Looking at his stats, he is on pace for around 2500 yards 13 to 15 TD's and around 10 INTs. That is not playing in 3 games, so no too bad stats.[/quote]

So JC's a decent QB, not a game changer, needs a good RB, fairly inconistent from week to week, not very mobile, fumbles often, etc. Yep, that's right. 14 TD's w/ 10 picks is a good year for JC.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=#56fanatic;771033]I think JC has played pretty decent in Oakland. The going back and forth with Gradkowski was more coaches than performance. Jason played well enough to keep the job when Gradkowski was hurt. Jason was benched after playing pittsburg, and unless your name is Brady, Pittsburg has a way of making most NFL QB's look not so good. HE has played well enough that they are at least still in the running for a playoff spot.
Looking at his stats, he is on pace for around 2500 yards 13 to 15 TD's and around 10 INTs. That is not playing in 3 games, so no too bad stats.[/quote]

He's played ok, typical JC stuff, a few good ones, and a few stinkers.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=mooby;771026]8 games? W/e qb we pick, I don't think he'll be as highly regarded as Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Matthew Stafford, Mark Sanchez, or Sam Bradford, but if he impresses in training camp and preseason I don't see why the coaching staff wouldn't make him the starter from day 1. Like you said the days of giving them a year on the bench or more are gone unless they were drafted later on and still had a lot to learn. But if we take a guy in the first round I wouldn't be suprised if he was the starter from day 1, recent evidence has shown that putting a guy in there early and letting him take his lumps hasn't proven to be a bad thing.[/quote]

I only say that because Cutler sat until week 13 during his rookie year, and probably would have sat the entire year if Plummer wasn't stinking it up so bad. And with Grossman showing he can be a decent short term starter, no need to toss a rook in there on day 1 unless he just absolutely blows the doors off the place.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

I didnt watch the game yesterday,was too busy running around town going to wedding ete etc.Been fast forwarding the game this morning,thought Grossy played outstanding.The 2 turnovers he had werent boneheaded plays,the pass to Sellers he was under heavy pressure,dont know if Sellars ran the wrong route or he was just trying to throw it away,excellent play by the def back.The other turnover happens when you get nailed from behind.
The thing that upset me the most was Moss with another drop,crucial drop,on a beatifully thrown pass that Moss had a good chance to take to the house that would have put us in the lead in the 4th.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Mattyk;771051]I only say that because Cutler sat until week 13 during his rookie year, and probably would have sat the entire year if Plummer wasn't stinking it up so bad. And with Grossman showing he can be a decent short term starter, no need to toss a rook in there on day 1 unless he just absolutely blows the doors off the place.[/quote]

True. I'm not completely sold on Grossman yet either, I'd like to see how he plays against the Jags and Giants d before we anoit him a nice short term solution. If he does play well against both there's no reason why we can't let him continue to play if we do go qb in the first round next year, and let the qb sit as long as Grossman plays good. But if Grossman does start stinking up the joint next season, and it's not because of something out of his control like the o-line stinking, I'd give him the hook. And in the off-chance he has a great season next year, well then no need to rush a rook in there.

Right now though, it's nice that he had a good game against Dallas, but we need to see some consistency before decisions are made.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Beemnseven;770920]Rex looked very sharp out there today -- he seemed to be much more confident and more settled than Dmac.

I figured he would look rusty today.[/quote]

His 1st half wasn't anything great: 7/13 108 yds 1 TD, 1 INT

But his second half, wow: 18/30 214 yds 3 TD 1 INT

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Mattyk;771048]He's played ok, typical JC stuff, a few good ones, and a few stinkers.[/quote]

JC will be in the NFL for a long time because he is exactly average. So he'll have some games above average, and some below average. But season by season he'll be at best good for 2800-3200 yards, ~20tds and 10-15 ints. Don't know why some here continue to think he'll break out as a star someday.

edit: I speak English good.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Longtimefan;771024][URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/19/AR2010121903982.html?hpid=artslot"]Redskins vs. Cowboys: Shanahans lose a game, but win Donovan McNabb-Rex Grossman argument[/URL][/quote]


Good read

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=htownskinfan;771054]I didnt watch the game yesterday,was too busy running around town going to wedding ete etc.Been fast forwarding the game this morning,thought Grossy played outstanding.The 2 turnovers he had werent boneheaded plays,the pass to Sellers he was under heavy pressure,dont know if Sellars ran the wrong route or he was just trying to throw it away,excellent play by the def back.The other turnover happens when you get nailed from behind.
[B]The thing that upset me the most was Moss with another drop,crucial drop,on a beatifully thrown pass [/B]that Moss had a good chance to take to the house that would have put us in the lead in the 4th.[/quote]

I missed most of the game for a funeral which was a month after the person died but that another story. I did catch the last 10 min and when Moss dropped that pass I said thats going to cost us the game. Even if we didn't score we would have left Dallas with a longer field with no time left.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=firstdown;771071]I missed most of the game for a funeral which was a month after the person died but that another story. I did catch the last 10 min and when Moss dropped that pass I said thats going to cost us the game. Even if we didn't score we would have left Dallas with a longer field with no time left.[/quote]

Moss has been our best WR for years and he is a great competitor, makes alot of plays BUT..... He always has that 1 drop every game that seems to haunt us! Sometimes you are just snake bit.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Paintrain;770953]From the WaPo's resident provider of sunshine and lollypops Sally Jenkins:

The word from inside Redskins Park was that the Shanahans have been frustrated for weeks by the fact that McNabb either couldn't or wouldn't absorb Kyle Shanahan's offense and make the correct reads, and that he only wanted to do the things that made him comfortable. His inflexibility limited the play-calling options, and his inconsistency too often put them in difficult long-yardage situations. Hence, he never improved in 13 games. Those judgments now seem correct.

[B]The word from the McNabb side is that the Shanahans didn't do enough to accommodate his improvisational talents,[/B] that Kyle Shanahan still has a lot to learn that he didn't do enough to make the freelance-happy McNabb more effective, and also protect him from sacks behind a vulnerable line. Perhaps a valid point, given that Grossman was sacked five times.[/quote]

I guess we need our WR's to run their routs 5 yards shorter then normal and dive to the turf so they could be in position to catch his passes before they hit the ground.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Paintrain;770953]From the WaPo's resident provider of sunshine and lollypops Sally Jenkins:

The word from inside Redskins Park was that the Shanahans have been frustrated for weeks by the fact that McNabb either couldn't or wouldn't absorb Kyle Shanahan's offense and [B]make the correct reads, and that he only wanted to do the things that made him comfortable. His inflexibility limited the play-calling options,[/B] and his inconsistency too often put them in difficult long-yardage situations. Hence, he never improved in 13 games. Those judgments now seem correct.

The word from the McNabb side is that the Shanahans didn't do enough to accommodate his improvisational talents, that Kyle Shanahan still has a lot to learn that he didn't do enough to make the freelance-happy McNabb more effective, and also protect him from sacks behind a vulnerable line. Perhaps a valid point, given that Grossman was sacked five times.[/quote]

The bolded quote seems like it could have been word for word from an AH story. I get Shanahan's point, he knows football, and he's going to win his way. He's the coach, but it does also go back to the square peg round hole issue that has plagued the Skins.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;771074]Moss has been our best WR for years and he is a great competitor, makes alot of plays BUT..... He always has that 1 drop every game that seems to haunt us! Sometimes you are just snake bit.[/quote]

That drop might've been the difference, but was anyone else seriously annoyed that there were NO running plays called on that drive? We were starting to open holes & Torain got some nice runs. There were 4 plus minutes left & we could've slowly moved the ball downfield. Instead we played into dallas' hands w/mid to long dropbacks & they responded w/blitzes.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=freddyg12;771086]That drop might've been the difference, but was anyone else seriously annoyed that there were NO running plays called on that drive? We were starting to open holes & Torain got some nice runs. There were 4 plus minutes left & we could've slowly moved the ball downfield. Instead we played into dallas' hands w/mid to long dropbacks & they responded w/blitzes.[/quote]

Yep, I agree. I was wondering where the heck was Torrain/Williams, heck anyone??? A good methodical march down was IMO a better option than passing every down like we seemed to do.

But hey, it's evaluation time, and we want the better draft pick anyway.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

Maybe since Grossman started to get in a groove passing the ball in the 2nd half, they wanted to stay with it?

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=Beemnseven;771158]Maybe since Grossman started to get in a groove passing the ball in the 2nd half, they wanted to stay with it?[/quote]

True, and I know they were "evaluating" him, but in the previous scoring drives they gave the ball to Torain a few times & it was working. they were mixing it up well. Even Moose commented on how little they were running the ball.

I know it's easy to criticize play calling when things don't go well, but I thought up to that last drive the balance was good. that second to last drive they not only went all pass, they didn't do anything to even show the potential to run. Dallas brought guys off the edge unblocked.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

I dont really think the play calling has been bad, perhaps it's just that DM5 was bad at running the offense. For all we know, the same plays are being called and we look great because Rex actually knows what he is doing...

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;771196]I dont really think the play calling has been bad, perhaps it's just that DM5 was bad at running the offense. For all we know, the same plays are being called and we look great because Rex actually knows what he is doing...[/quote]

I'm referring to the drive in which we had the ball tied 30-30 w/4+ minutes left. We didn't look "great" as it ended w/2 sacks in a row. I was disappointed in that drive that there were no runs called & that the formations seemed to tip dallas that it was pass. They brought a blitz off the edge & we had no one to pick it up.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;771084]The bolded quote seems like it could have been word for word from an AH story. I get Shanahan's point, he knows football, and he's going to win his way. He's the coach, but it does also go back to the square peg round hole issue that has plagued the Skins.[/quote]

SmootSmack said that that was the first time he has heard of that when I noted that, which got me thinking that Jenkins may be cooking things up, but then again...maybe it is true.

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;771232]SmootSmack said that that was the first time he has heard of that when I noted that, which got me thinking that Jenkins may be cooking things up, but then again...maybe it is true.[/quote]

Wait, what did I say exactly?

Re: Report: Grossman Starting on Sunday
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;771084]The bolded quote seems like it could have been word for word from an AH story. I get Shanahan's point, he knows football, and he's going to win his way. He's the coach, but it does also go back to the square peg round hole issue that has plagued the Skins.[/quote]


So true regarding your geometry comparison. I have been extremely frustrated with waiting until late into the 4th quarter for Donovan to self-ignite a flame up his rear trying to win the game.

Question to me is: Can you teach an ole dog new tricks? It's time to move on.