Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;865997]But the argument is totally nullified by the fact that the Redskins had McNabb on the roster after the lockout ended. He was traded because he was perceived as a limiting factor by a team that wanted to turn the keys over to Rex Grossman and/or John Beck.

There's no conspiracy theory to be had here. Mike Shanahan thought Rex Grossman and John Beck could win games for him in 2011. He thought they could win enough games to win the NFC East. And the only part he was right about is that it's only going to take 9 or 10 wins to take the East.

It's one thing to not have a lot of confidence in a rookie Blaine Gabbert or a rookie Christian Ponder or a rookie Ryan Mallett, the three players who the Redskins passed over at no. 10 overall to trade down to 16. History may prove Mike Shanahan right on that one. It's never going to look fondly though on the guys he actually staked his reputation to. Heck, Shanahan couldn't even tell the difference in quality between the two guys he handpicked. Even the veterans on the Redskins had that figured out. The idea that there werent better options out there to be had over the last two seasons is absurd. Of course there were.

We haven't fixed any "real" problems in two years, so how would we know how much a good coaching staff could fix in one year? Maybe changing the coaching staff brings in the perfect guy to win in the NFL at this time. Or maybe it starts over the rebuilding clock. Either way, what's the downside?[/quote]

I disagree, to an extent. On the whole, our team is finally getting younger. Just prior to the 2010 season, our average age was 27.97, which ranked tops in the NFL at the conclusion of the 53 man rosters. Prior to 2011, that figure changed to 26.6, 1.37 years younger, and down to 11th in the league. You also have to figure that this draft is going to produce our starting quarterback, and hopefully one or two other starters who are going to step in right away.

Our team age is steadily going down, which gives the franchise a bit of flexibility when it comes down to free agency, as well as a sense of optimism and comaraderie, knowing that the team is chock full of young talent, not "has been" mercs looking for a payday. So in at least one aspect the Shanahan era hasnt been a total loss. This next year (2012) will determine the future of the organization, as well as Mike Shanahan.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

I look at this whole QB situation from the perspective that the Skins are a team in the second year of a total rebuild under Shanny. Sure, Shanny wouldn't admit to rebuilding and Bruce Allen even trotted out some tired old rhetoric by saying "the future is now". I mean, you didn't really believe that b.s., did you?

I think that saying or not saying certain things was done with the thought of not demotivating the players who had to play the games in 2011. I also think the comment that Shanny made about staking his reputation on Beck and Grossman was a case of extreme "coach speak" that slipped out while he was trying to defend the fact that the Skins didn't take a QB in the 2011 draft. He probably wished he hadn't said that the instant it came out of his mouth.

If the Skins didn't like any of the QB prospects in the 2011 draft then I see no reason why they should have drafted one since they knew full well that they were only in year two of a complete rebuild. The QB could wait until the 2012 draft.

They decided instead to trade down repeatedly and pick up as many good prospects as they could in 2011. And I think the strategy might work out for them. Firstly, I think we may have acquired some good prospects in Kerrigan, Jenkins, Hankerson, Helu. and possibly a couple of others. Secondly, I think most of us would agree that this figures to be a better QB class in 2012. Now, if the Skins fail to land a top QB in this draft, then I would say that management may not know what they're doing in regard to the QB position (with a few f-bombs tossed in).

I'm aware that some NFL executives like the idea of taking a young QB, albeit late, in nearly every draft. I'm not convinced of that as a strategy, but certainly the Skins could have done that in the last draft. They didn't. Nevertheless, it might not be a bad idea for the Skins to do that in this draft because there are a lot of decent QB prospects in this class. A young starter + veteran backup (Rex) + a young developmental QB would be a good thing, IMO.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;866070]
I'm aware that some NFL executives like the idea of taking a young QB, albeit late, in nearly every draft. I'm not convinced of that as a strategy, but certainly the Skins could have done that in the last draft. They didn't. Nevertheless, it might not be a bad idea for the Skins to do that in this draft because there are a lot of decent QB prospects in this class. A young starter + veteran backup (Rex) + a young developmental QB would be a good thing, IMO.[/quote]

Who besides Luck and maybe Barkley are said to be instant starters at the pro level? If we're lucky enough to land Barkley maybe he could start right away next year...but my word that's a tremendous amount of pressure to put on a 22 yr old lad!! D.C. Media. Mike and Kyle. A horde of desperate fans.

I think that's risky as hell and would be much more confident in a savvy, even surly lol, vet starting while our big gamble grows into the world, league, offense awhile. Problem is...who's that vet?! Probably Rex is that guy because we're not likely to spend our first pick and big FA money on QBs at the same time. Plus that new QB would be learning the system from the beginning (just like the rookie), so we'd be at an even bigger risk than with Grossman.

Moral of the story, Grossman is our QB for the time being...as...long...as...Mike's...here!!

I have more confidence in at least three available veteran coaches currently unemployed and at least that many coordinators who are probably a big part of the NFL through the rest of my lifetime.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

Thought I'd put this up

[URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6672862"]2011-12 bowl schedule - ESPN[/URL]

RGIII- Valero Alamo Bowl- Dec. 29th, 9pm.
L.Jones- Insight Bowl- Dec. 30th, 10pm.
A.Luck- Tostitos Fiesta Bowl- Jan. 2nd, 8:30pm.

As far as I can tell these are the only 3 QB's from the original 5 from the first thread started;
1.Luck
2.L.Jones
3.Barkley
4.Folles
5.RGIII

Are there others we should be looking at (in regards to QB's) and what Bowl are they playing in so I can mark my calender?

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=SBXVII;866174]Thought I'd put this up

[URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6672862"]2011-12 bowl schedule - ESPN[/URL]

RGIII- Valero Alamo Bowl- Dec. 29th, 9pm.
L.Jones- Insight Bowl- Dec. 30th, 10pm.
A.Luck- Tostitos Fiesta Bowl- Jan. 2nd, 8:30pm.

As far as I can tell these are the only 3 QB's from the original 5 from the first thread started;
1.Luck
2.L.Jones
3.Barkley
4.Folles
5.RGIII

Are there others we should be looking at (in regards to QB's) and what Bowl are they playing in so I can mark my calender?[/quote]

Ryan Tannehill-Meineke Car Care Dec. 31

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=The Goat;866161][B]Who besides Luck and maybe Barkley are said to be instant starters at the pro level?[/B] If we're lucky enough to land Barkley maybe he could start right away next year...but my word that's a tremendous amount of pressure to put on a 22 yr old lad!! D.C. Media. Mike and Kyle. A horde of desperate fans.

I think that's risky as hell and would be much more confident in a savvy, even surly lol, vet starting while our big gamble grows into the world, league, offense awhile. Problem is...who's that vet?! Probably Rex is that guy because we're not likely to spend our first pick and big FA money on QBs at the same time. Plus that new QB would be learning the system from the beginning (just like the rookie), so we'd be at an even bigger risk than with Grossman.

Moral of the story, Grossman is our QB for the time being...as...long...as...Mike's...here!!

I have more confidence in at least three available veteran coaches currently unemployed and at least that many coordinators who are probably a big part of the NFL through the rest of my lifetime.[/quote]

I think that Luck and Barkley are the complete list of QB prospects who could start right away. That's why I think we may trade up for Barkley. If St. Louis finishes with the second worst record, we've got a chance to land him.

I want the Skins to keep Rex as a backup and I think he's a solid backup. Rex may even start the season next year if our (supposed) rookie phenom isn't quite ready. But, by now, we should all recognize that he's not likely to be an NFL starter much longer.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;866178]Ryan Tannehill-Meineke Car Care Dec. 31[/quote]

Thanks.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=Paintrain;866039]Well in evaluating Gabbert it really has nothing to do with his production, [B]I see a guy with a major case of the flinches. Any time pressure is in his face he seems to either throw off of his back foot or completely lose his fundamentals to just unload it. [/B]His numbers on 3rd down and red zone in college weren't good at all either so there is a significant question about how he handles stress and pressure. That's not really something that can be coached. I've seen that behavior closely compared to David Carr and Joey Harrington, not good company to be in.

As much as Carter looks great in NE this year, he has shown a couple of times (SF & Wash) that despite his ability and effort, he's not a 3-4 guy. There's nothing wrong with that, some guys just are poor fits for that system. Kerrigan gives us a guy younger and better suited for that position.

I'm with you on the young QB thing but I think the choice not to draft Mallett had more to do with system compatibility concerns than it did character issues.[/quote]

I'm not impressed with Gabbert at all. Looks like Jacksonville made a bad pick there.

Luck should shine against OK ST

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=skinsfan69;866206]I'm not impressed with Gabbert at all. [B]Looks like Jacksonville made a bad pick there[/B].[/quote]

No - they made a good pick but it's looking like they got a bad player.

See, this why picking QB's is tricky. At the time, it looked like quite a coup for Jax. Remember, on many boards Gabbert was the number 2 QB in the draft. In fact, as I recall, not many expected him to last to the 10th pick. Jax had a QB in place and expected to be able to let Gabbert sit for a year.

So, they aggressively moved up to get the best QB available and with a plan put him in a situation to succeed. Then sh** happened and he had to start sooner than expected. AND, in doing so, it turns out that all his prospective "pros" - great physical attributes, good intangibles, smart - appear to be, so far, outweighed by all the speculative "cons" - moving from spread offense, not experienced with pre-snap reads, etc.

Meanwhile, Cinci, takes the best WR on the board and waits to see who's available. In doing so, they end up with Andy Dalton (a guy we were rumoured to be after) and now they have a pass-catch duo that looks like they could be set for the next 10 years.

With that in mind, let's just wait and see where the chips fall.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

Gabbert just wasn't ready to play right away this year. He does look awfully skittish in the pocket, but not everyone is ready for prime time right out of the gate. Gotta give him some more time to see if he develops.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=Mattyk;866258]Gabbert just wasn't ready to play right away this year. He does look awfully skittish in the pocket, but not everyone is ready for prime time right out of the gate. Gotta give him some more time to see if he develops.[/quote]
I hope so because, I heard the Monday night anouncers saying how easy it would be with the new CBA to give up on him.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

Gabbert wasn't appealing to me based on the fact that he only threw 16 TD's and 7 picks against the Big 12...Andy Dalton on the other hand, no matter who he played was a high TD low Int consistent guy.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;864795]Going forward, quarterback has to be one of their largest organizational weaknesses, and I think their chances of addressing it in 2012 go up substancially if they divorce themselves from Reid. And to some degree, I think Reid's chances of returning are roughly based on whether or not they believe Michael Vick can win the super bowl on his current contract. If they are just going to use him as a veteran stopgap in a new scheme, there's no reason to let Reid pick the next QB, even though he's good at it.[/quote]I hope Philly gets rid of Reid and Morningwhig goes with him.
Removing the offensive staff from Philly will set that team back for awhile and all but erase them from contention.

But, I don't think Philly is that dumb.
The perception is that Vick has regressed, but I don't think its evident with his play.
I think the team around him is worse on the OL at WR and Vick is suffering as consequent.
But, a metric I like to use for judging QB play is ESPN TQBR and they have Vick top 10 or near it and I think that is an accurate assessment of how he has played this season.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[YT]mhyqhn1LJps[/YT]


This kid is smart, and looks like a very good QB. I'd be happy to see him drafted.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

^Interesting. He's engaged to a white girl.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=diehard;866467]^Interesting. He's engaged to a white girl.[/quote]

Why is that interesting?

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:7330418]Smart For Colts To Draft Andrew Luck? - ESPN Video - ESPN[/url]

I agree with Kiper and McShay.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;866468]Why is that interesting?[/quote]

It is and it isn't. It's nice to see from a progressive standpoint, but ultimately its not really noteworthy.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;866463]This kid is smart, and looks like a very good QB. I'd be happy to see him drafted.[/quote]

The more I hear about him, the more I like him.

13 TD's this season v. 12 Incompletes. Don't know if that was current or sometime mid-season but it's freaking phenomenal. I would be VERY happy with this guy.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[URL="http://espn.go.com/college-football/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/collegeQuarterbackRating/count/41"]2011 NCAA Division I-A College Football Individual Statistics Leaders for Passing - ESPN[/URL]

AND it does not hurt that the guy has World Class sprinter speed.....

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

Why isnt the Payton Manning story blowig up on this blog. Thats big time gossip for our team.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;866474]Why isnt the Payton Manning story blowig up on this blog. Thats big time gossip for our team.[/quote]

This is a blog??

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

Maybe because this isn't a blog...

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

What is the deal with manning and why is it important to us. TBH the more I have watched RGIII play the more I want that kid in BandG.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;866336]Gabbert wasn't appealing to me based on the fact that he only threw 16 TD's and 7 picks against the Big 12...Andy Dalton on the other hand, no matter who he played was a high TD low Int consistent guy.[/quote]

Gabbert was a dinker and dunker in college, and a dinker and dunker in the NFL. Accuracy issues

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;866471]The more I hear about him, the more I like him.

13 TD's this season v. 12 Incompletes. Don't know if that was current or sometime mid-season but it's freaking phenomenal. I would be VERY happy with this guy.[/quote]

RG3 is probably my second choice after Luck. I think the kid has a very bright future in the NFL. And the 13 td's v. 12 incompletions thing was very early in the season, probably 3 games in I think, but either way it's very impressive.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=Mattyk;866476]Maybe because this isn't a blog...[/quote]

Why do people keep calling it a blog recently??

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;866481]Why do people keep calling it a blog recently??[/quote]

yeah i called it a blog recently, I think by definition it is. Ive always thought a forum to which encourages sharing of opinions by anyone who wants to participate was a blog...i mean if it is not what is it? you act like by saying "blog" it is derogatory, I've never thought that.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

It's a forum, or message board.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Message_board]Internet forum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blog]Blog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

Just googled whay you were talking about. This kind of speculation does not really seem that out of whack. We are always going to be connected to these kinds of rumors.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=Chico23231;866482]yeah i called it a blog recently, I think by definition it is. Ive always thought a forum to which encourages sharing of opinions by anyone who wants to participate was a blog...i mean if it is not what is it? you act like by saying "blog" it is derogatory, I've never thought that.[/quote]

It's not a blog at all. It's a message board.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=Mattyk;866488]It's a forum, or message board.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Message_board]Internet forum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blog]Blog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url][/quote]

word up on the education. yeah, thought the terms blog, forum, message board were basically synonymous. obviously not, thanks

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=The Goat;866161]Who besides Luck and maybe Barkley are said to be instant starters at the pro level?[/quote]No offense, but the thought that people consider any QB prospect an instant starter at a pro-bowl level is patently absurd.

But there are some good prospects in this class.
I guess you're asking about pro-ready prospects that could start at some point in their rookie year?
You already mentioned Luck and Barkley.
Even though Griff, Weeden come from a spread I think they could start too.
Tannehill could also because of the system familiarity from his college offense.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

RG3 See's the white girls coming up lol Ok JK anyways On the field he's a big time QB waiting to happen

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=30gut;866518]No offense, but the thought that people consider any QB prospect an instant starter at a pro-bowl level is patently absurd.[/quote]

I'm sure you've heard of Cam Newton and Andy Dalton? Luck, Barkley and possibly RGIII could be just as good or better next year.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

Cam Newton is a Freak of nature, Luck is the only QB I'd take over Cam in this draft

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=Chico23231;866482]yeah i called it a blog recently, I think by definition it is. Ive always thought a forum to which encourages sharing of opinions by anyone who wants to participate was a blog...i mean if it is not what is it? you act like by saying "blog" it is derogatory, I've never thought that.[/quote]

I noticed that Chico' but, I know what you meant.

Re: 2012 QB Prospects (Part 2)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;866528]Cam Newton is a Freak of nature, Luck is the only QB I'd take over Cam in this draft[/quote]

That's a strong statement. Hmmm.

@ diehard

Have u seen cam play this season? Big time deep ball accuracy, obviously runs the ball better than any QB other than Vick and has way better accuracy than most thought. He'll be around for a LONG time