Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=biffle;896824]Problem with that analogy is that the Tuck Rule was, you know, the rule. What we did was also the rule and they're trying to retroactively punish us for following the rules. Again, the analogy would be punishing the Pats for benifitting from the rule that was in place at the time.

[B]If this goes to court, the NFL would have to get on the stand and admit that they are punishing us for not going along with collusion. I don't know how they think they can get away with that.[/B]

I also don't know how they think they can punish us the full amount of the Haynesworth and Hall bonuses, but the Bears are in fact rewarded with extra cap space in spite of the way they did the Peppers contract.

This whole thing is outright lunacy.[/quote]

That's one reason why this will likely never go to court. Another is that owners (excepting Al Davis, once) don't bite the hand that feeds them by suing the NFL.

There are owners meetings at the end of March. Danny and Jerry will moan and perhaps threaten a lawsuit. People will get upset. But then calmer heads will prevail and the penalties will be reduced. At least, IMO, that's how this will shake out.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Lotus;896847]That's one reason why this will likely never go to court. Another is that owners (excepting Al Davis, once) don't bite the hand that feeds them by suing the NFL.

There are owners meetings at the end of March. Danny and Jerry will moan and perhaps threaten a lawsuit. People will get upset. But then calmer heads will prevail and the penalties will be reduced. At least, IMO, that's how this will shake out.[/quote]

That's entirely useless to use given that free agency starts tomorrow...

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

I say we go about FA exactly to plan prior to this debacle...file a motion for temp injunction...gather as many troops as possible... and go to the owners meetings and start dropping bombs. The two most valuable (money-wise) teams plus I am sure a few others that have to be a little miffed about this can probably get this straightened back out.

I think a fair solution is this. Any team that dumped any money into 2010 gets punished uniformly. That money goes to the teams that didn't. If there are too many that did the dumping then forget it and move on. Oh and make some adjustments for what players would have earned anyways in 2010 and allow the docked cap space to be spread over a more reasonable 5 years. Any owners who want to bitch and moan...Jerry and Dan can tell 'em to eff themselves, they can buy their team and fold it (that last part was a little poetic license and completely unreasonable I know)

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=mbedner3420;896850]That's entirely useless to use given that free agency starts tomorrow...[/quote]

I was gonna say that.

And I think they're really testing the "owners don't sue the league" line by selectively punishing teams that followed a rule and effectively kneecapping Snyder's chances to build a team right when he finally had his coach, QB, other pieces and big cap room aligned. I don't see him taking that lying down, and will be mad if he does.

[QUOTE=mbedner3420;896850]That's entirely useless to use given that free agency starts tomorrow...[/QUOTE]

Not really. We have the option of pushing the entire penalty back to 2013, or paying it however we see fit. If we don't pay any of it now and continue forward as planned, and jerr-Dan raise hell at the owners meetings and get the penalty reduced, we'll probably incur some form of penalty but hopefully nowhere near as significant as this one.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=mbedner3420;896850]That's entirely useless to use given that free agency starts tomorrow...[/quote]

No it is not useless. We can act in free agency as if there will be little to no penalty on the premise that things will change. Besides, we have two years to meet the penalty in the worst case.

If I'm Bruce Allen I'm approaching FA as if nothing has changed.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

The fact that FA starts tomorrow is irrelevant, we're not going to sign enough guys tomorrow to make the lowered cap meaningful. And I suspect the plan right now is to say eff it and go about FA as always planned. Based on Allen's statement that is.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=mooby;896861]Not really. We have the option of pushing the entire penalty back to 2013, or paying it however we see fit. If we don't pay any of it now and continue forward as planned, and jerr-Dan raise hell at the owners meetings and get the penalty reduced, we'll probably incur some form of penalty but hopefully nowhere near as significant as this one.[/quote]

Yet again great minds think alike.

[QUOTE=biffle;896845]No it doesn't. And hopefully it won't.

But I was just making a joke because someone seemed to mock the idea of doing something about teams that were below the salary floor in 2010 because 'you can't just go back and apply rules retroactively' or whatever. Sorry the attempt at levity was apparently not up to your standards.[/QUOTE]

Ah I must've missed it. It's all good bro.

I expect the skins to still go heavy for Jackson and possibly garcon too

[QUOTE=Lotus;896864]Yet again great minds think alike.[/QUOTE]

Bullee DAT.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Wow...just wow! This thread blew up today! All I can add: hopefully this cap space penalty bullshit unites our team as much as it has the board! Can I get a hell yeah?!

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

WOW!!! Lawsuit coming.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Paintrain;896815]Here's a thought, quit bitching about the trade.. You don't like it, we get it but it's done so get over it. We aren't now going to trade with Cleveland, that's just moronic to even conceive and communicate it like it's anything that someone with more than a third grade education would consider.

This sky is falling BS because of this news is just that, BS. I'm sure the powers that be are working on all options to improve this team thru free agency, even if the $36 million penalty sticks. We will spend in free agency, we have 20, TWENTY picks over the next three years and we will see an improvement BESIDES the 'one player' who you seem to be obsessing over.[/quote]

We can continue to draft the Trent William's, Brian Orakpos and Ryan Kerrigans of the world, but we'll continue to suck until we get a QB. That's 3 top 15 picks over 3 years and all it got us was 5-11. Like Bruce Allen said, we still have 18 picks over last year and this year even after giving up the 2nd this year. They did the right thing.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=mooby;896833]No I haven't been following the news, what's going on?

Just because the NFL attempted to punish the Redskins for breaking an unwritten rule doesn't mean the punishment will stand up in court.[/quote]


LOL.....righttttttt.:doh:

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Well, this sucks, but I don't think that it will have a tremendous impact on us. The reality is that we did a smart thing during the uncapped year and I think we actually did create a competitive advantage, at least as it applies to the salary cap over the long term.

I read that the team can split it up over the next two years any way they see fit. If the team wants to, they can look at next years cap and see that we only have 81 mil on the books. That changes to 76 mil now with the release of Atogwe and Sellers. Moss, Hall, and Cooley could be released to gain another 4, 8, and 4 mil respectively. I expect there will at least be some serious restructuring instead, but if they had to release them, we would be at ~60mil on the books.

The point I'm making is that we can have a plan in place to eat a small piece of the 36 mil penalty this year while using the space to structure free agent contracts so that we could adsorb most of it next year if we had to by releasing (or seriously restructuring) the mentioned players. Once that plan is in place, I'd team with the other penalized team(s), point out the inequity in the decision (like with the Bears) and start an all out fight with the league to get the penalty reduced. I don't see the league putting this out there and then backing off completely but there may be a reason we aren't seeing the penalty amounts on the NFL network ticker tape.

So, basically I see this as a sucky thing to happen to the Skins, but it is something that we are in a good place to absorb, something we can push out and something we can fight specifically because of the 2010 restructures during the uncapped year.

Stupid penalty. I don't understand that if the league offices have to approve player contact agreements, and these contracts were breaking some rule, then why did the league approve the contracts when they were signed?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[COLOR=black][B]Explanation on why the Skins are being targeted[/B][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Now I don't agree with this at all because the NFL approved all these contracts but it does bring some rationalization behind the NFL decision.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Its a twitter explanation I gave to Rich Tandler so [B][SIZE=3]please read from the bottom up.............[/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]57s Robert Large‏@PCinOz[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]ut this will be the cornerstone of the NFL argument - that those two contracts were done differently to the others.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]1m Robert Large‏@PCinOz[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]How is AH and DH case different to TW, Rak or Peppers based on what the NFL secretly told the team owners/GM;s?[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]2m Robert Large‏@PCinOz[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]@PCinOz @Rich_Tandler There was no breakdown of info on what was "allowed" and what wasn't so how do the NFL have a leg to stand on anyway?[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]6m Robert Large‏@PCinOz[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]@PCinOz @Rich_Tandler Thats why the SKins and Boys should take this to court they would win hands down[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]6m Robert Large‏@PCinOz[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]@Rich_Tandler Thats the difference. Should it matter? No. But the NFL are quarantining that issue to hit the SKins with.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]7m Rich Tandler‏@Rich_Tandler[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]@PCinOz In other words, they're making it up as they go along. Not the way it's supposed to operate. I know you know that, just odd.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]7m Robert Large‏@PCinOz[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]@Rich_Tandler Totally agree, they have found a way to seperate abuses with new or unpaid money from already paid and earned money[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]8m Rich Tandler‏@Rich_Tandler[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]@PCinOz . . . the cap hit if they want to release Peppers. Same thing, just a new contract.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]9m Rich Tandler‏@Rich_Tandler[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]@PCinOz No, it was a brand new contract when he signed as a UFA with the Bears. Paid out big $ in 1st year to lower cap later and reduce . .[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]9m Robert Large‏@PCinOz[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]@Rich_Tandler I;m just using the openalty number to rationalise the NFL decision, not saying that the NFL is right to exclude other abuses[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]10m Robert Large‏@PCinOz[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]@Rich_Tandler Was any of Peppers money already earned and paid[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]11m Rich Tandler‏@Rich_Tandler[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]@PCinOz I get that. Just don't see why the Bears aren't in the same boat.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]11m Robert Large‏@PCinOz[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]@Rich_Tandler The diff is the NFL are focused on those two already paid & prorated option bonuses, not accelerating yet to be paid/earned[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]13m Robert Large‏@PCinOz[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]@Rich_Tandler ...but also accelerates already paid option bonuses to AH ($21m) and DH ($15m). Now what was the penalty? 21+15[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]14m Robert Large‏@PCinOz[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]@Rich_Tandler Rich Rich look at the Skins that year, renegotiated Orakpo and Williams contract to accelerate as yet unpaid future bonuses...[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]Rich Tandler‏@Rich_TandlerReply[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]he Bears signed Julius Peppers as a UFA in 2010 to a deal with a $35 million cap hit. But they escape penalty here. Why?[/COLOR]

[QUOTE=sandtrapjack;896895]Stupid penalty. I don't understand that if the league offices have to approve player contact agreements, and these contracts were breaking some rule, then why did the league approve the contracts when they were signed?[/QUOTE]

I think they didnt disapprove the contracts at the time because the NFLPA would be able to use the disapproved contract as ammo that the NFL owners were colluding to act as if the cap still existed, thus making very serious problems for the league going into the lockout.

[QUOTE=sandtrapjack;896895]Stupid penalty. I don't understand that if the league offices have to approve player contact agreements, and these contracts were breaking some rule, then why did the league approve the contracts when they were signed?[/QUOTE]

Just listened to mike and mike's explanation on the salary cap penalty. It absolutely made no sense to me. They basically said the league approved the deals because the new CBA wasn't done yet, so thats why the league had to wait until now to penalize. So basically the cowboys and redskins broke the unwritten rule back in 2010 and now in 2012 with new CBA they are getting penalized.

The league still approved the contracts and IMO they didn't want to disapprove them then because it would have looked bad in CBA talks and the NFLPA would have made it an issue.



these


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I am here: [url]http://tapatalk.com/map.php?garddt[/url]

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=GreekSkin;896797]We still have cap space and great cap guys. Free agency isn't done for us.[/quote]

exactly, people need to back off the ledge

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=PCinOz;896896][COLOR=black][B]Explanation on why the Skins are being targeted[/B][/COLOR]


Hey PC!

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Look at this bullshit. They better have so many lawyers up Goodell's ass that he'll be shitting legal terms for the next decade. This is a farce to say the least.


[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y188/thehoofbite/Untitled1-1.jpg[/IMG]

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

this whole thing seems arbitrary and capricious. Either that or the NFL hasn't publicly issued a good explanation yet. Everything I've read thus far (including the Tandler twitters above) doesn't address a violation of the CBA or any other league rules.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

League has supposedly already removed 18million, it's a done deal.

They can also decline any contracts if the Redskins choose not to abide by this punishment.

So not only are they not going to issue a statement to the two teams, they're also choosing how much the Redskins are going to give up each year (18million split).

The twisted/unfairness in this is something I have never seen in pro sports before.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Peter King:
"Two things I don't like re NFL's cap penalty on Wash/Dall: Timing--You tell a team 24 hrs before FA about a 36m cut in spending? Ridiculous."

"And there's a reason 2010 was called 'uncapped.' That should have meant teams could allocate money how they saw fit. I don't like this."

The unbiased analysts are on our side, and rightfully so.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=IrMitchell;896942]League has supposedly already removed 18million, it's a done deal.

They can also decline any contracts if the Redskins choose not to abide by this punishment.

So not only are they not going to issue a statement to the two teams, they're also choosing how much the Redskins are going to give up each year (18million split).

The twisted/unfairness in this is something I have never seen in pro sports before.[/quote]

So the league says you can spread the penalty over two years anyway you like and then turns around and removes $18 million? Obviously they're not giving these teams a chance to decide what's best for them. I'm not a man who believes in conspiracy theories, but I have to say, this is down right dirty.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=skinsguy;896947]So the league says you can spread the penalty over two years anyway you like and then turns around and removes $18 million? Obviously they're not giving these teams a chance to decide what's best for them. I'm not a man who believes in conspiracy theories, but I have to say, this is down right dirty.[/quote]

They've removed free agency from us. They've gotta think that we'll fight this, but by forcing this on us we don't have the chance to sign any free agents.

Congratulations Jeff Fisher and John Mara. You've successfully conspired a way to hurt our chances and improve yours.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Get penalized for AH and DH? Sucks, considering neither player has or did much of anything for us.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

I think what disturbs me more is the fact the owners had a meeting over this, the Commish puts out a statement, and the Cowboys and Redskins are not informed of the meeting, not informed of the punishment and they have to find out through the media? how professional is that?

Either the Skins knew and just don't want to talk about it or they truly didn't know. But in either case it was not handled right. It just looks like the other owners were wanting to stick it to both the Skins and Cowboys before this years FA to benifit themselves. When instead they should have had a meeting with both the Skins and Cowboys owner and questioned them about what, how, and why. Then come to an agreement in regards to what the punishement should be instead of last minute BS meetings and punishments.

The punishment should have been set for the 2013 and 2014 years and given the two owners time to rebut or appeal the decision.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=IrMitchell;896950][B]They've removed free agency from us. They've gotta think that we'll fight this, but by forcing this on us we don't have the chance to sign any free agents.[/B]

Congratulations Jeff Fisher and John Mara. You've successfully conspired a way to hurt our chances and improve yours.[/quote]

overstate things much?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

I think someone said it back on the earlier pages (so sorry if I"m repeating anybody here) but you would think the NFL would be gracious to the Redskins and Cowboys for actually spending money and putting it in the league, rather than teams who are NOT spending the money. And secondly, both teams have missed the playoffs in the last two years, so what type of unfair competitive gain did these teams actually achieve? It's a classic case of kicking a man while he's down.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Paraphrasing John Clayton on M & M,
"the contracts were approved, but then the rules were changed after the fact". He says "this is far from over, but the Boys and SKins will be against the other owners, so it will be a delicate and difficult road"

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Mattyk;896961]overstate things much?[/quote]
Not at all, I keep seeing you try to play the "stay cool, we're not going to be THAT affected", but you're wrong.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=IrMitchell;896966]Not at all, I keep seeing you try to play the "stay cool, we're not going to be THAT affected", but you're wrong.[/quote]

Not as wrong as you saying we can't sign any free agents.

Assuming the $36M penalty holds up, we have $18.5 in space as of right now if we did a 50/50 split of the $36M, that's still enough room to do some damage in free agency. And that's before a myriad of restructures that are possible.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Mattyk;896972]Not as wrong as you saying we can't sign any free agents.

Assuming the $36M penalty holds up, we have $18.5 in space as of right now if we did a 50/50 split of the $36M, that's still enough room to do some damage in free agency. And that's before a myriad of restructures that are possible.[/quote]

Yeah I don't get this gloom and doom overreaction.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Mattyk;896972]Not as wrong as you saying we can't sign any free agents.

Assuming the $36M penalty holds up, we have $18.5 in space as of right now if we did a 50/50 split of the $36M, that's still enough room to do some damage in free agency. And that's before a myriad of restructures that are possible.[/quote]
NFL Draft. (RG3 +)
Fletcher (To me this is a priority)

How much money do we have after this?

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Ruhskins;896974]Yeah I don't get this gloom and doom overreaction.[/quote]

It's battered fan syndrome. Always assume the worst.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

[quote=Mattyk;896977]It's battered fan syndrome. Always assume the worst.[/quote]
I'm not assuming the worst, I'm just not going to be optimistic about a bad situation.

Battered fan syndrome should be in every one of us, add to the fact I'm a Leafs/Raptors/Jays fan and I can't really help it.

Re: NFL taking away Redskins cap space
 

Yet another reason why I HATE Roger Goodell. That guy is quickly challenging Stern as the worst commissioner in sports, in my opinion