Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;904361]There are some intelligent comments from people that support the penalties but they've very few and far between. Most of them seem to be from unintelligent Giant fans that either backwards rationalize about the validity of the fines or simply laugh at the fact that they put a dent into the offseason plans of two division rivals, not even caring that the fines were pretty shady to say the least.[/quote]

Most of the comments I read seemed to be supporting the 'skins and Cowboys, but yeah, you could definitely tell the Giants fans on there.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

29-2-1?

Does anyone else find it odd that one of the two other teams affected by the cap situation, the saints, didn't side with us on that vote? They were adversely affected in some ways by the NFL's decision, but they wen't along with the vote anyway... Odd.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=mbedner3420;904365]29-2-1?

Does anyone else find it odd that one of the two other teams affected by the cap situation, the saints, didn't side with us on that vote? They were adversely affected in some ways by the NFL's decision, but they wen't along with the vote anyway... Odd.[/quote]

It's called, reduce our penalties by kissing ass.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=mbedner3420;904365]29-2-1?

Does anyone else find it odd that one of the two other teams affected by the cap situation, the saints, didn't side with us on that vote? They were adversely affected in some ways by the NFL's decision, but they wen't along with the vote anyway... Odd.[/quote]

Not really. The Saints are trying to rehabilitate their image so right now they probably think it's in their best interest not to make a statement against the establishment.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

Someone told me that Tampa Bay abstained from voting. I'm curious as to why they did it.

And it is also on this article in the Washington Post...

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/nfl-teams-back-decision-to-cut-salary-cap-of-redskins-cowboys/2012/03/27/gIQA7HpZeS_blog.html]NFL teams back decision to cut salary cap of Redskins, Cowboys - The Insider - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;904284]Um, good point. This can be [I]Modgate 2.0 - The Moderatoring[/I]

or
[I]
Modgate II - The Curse of BrudLee[/I][/quote]

Who moderates the moderators?

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;904379]Who moderates the moderators?[/quote]

The Watchmen?

[IMG]http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_d2LJSkL_g1RbvoZJDUdjPRKjNQM-UOOTbDKO_qJT-viB-PmNSZX68mncUg[/IMG]

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Ruhskins;904378]Someone told me that Tampa Bay abstained from voting. I'm curious as to why they did it.

And it is also on this article in the Washington Post...

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/nfl-teams-back-decision-to-cut-salary-cap-of-redskins-cowboys/2012/03/27/gIQA7HpZeS_blog.html]NFL teams back decision to cut salary cap of Redskins, Cowboys - The Insider - The Washington Post[/url][/quote]

Maybe they were so concerned with the £478m of debt with Man U that they didn't want to think about money?

In all seriousness though:
[quote]Warpath ‏ @WarpathDC Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Because they got away with the cap floor abuseRT “@dshif: one team that abstained in vote to uphold the cap punishments were the Bucs
[/quote]

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;904343]silly vote.

All those who want to give your team a 1.6m cap bump say AYE
All those who want to lose 1.6m in cap room say NAY.
Those who have to lose cap room to pay for it... oops you can't vote.

The AYEs have it.[/quote]

Thats just it. Depending on how it was presented would depend on how the vote would go down. Were both teams allowed to present their arguements to the other 30 teams? or did the owner say ok DS and JJ please step out of the room so we can vote on how the other owners feel about this. .... and after they left.....

Goodell- ok look if we give the CAP back we have to essentially take it back from you. Did any of you already spend your 1.6m CAP? you did. ok, so does anyone have an idea of how we give this back? no. Ok well lets vote on this.... do you think we should give the money back? Oh, I see everyone is in agreement that the punishment should stay in place.

At this point. fine. don't give it back. I hope to hell that DS and JJ make such a stink or turn them over to the Labor Relations Board for investigations and all the owners are fined for their part in the Collussion.

I said it once and will say it again we should have waited until after the draft to file our complaint. Get RG3 and all the other picks. Then DS and JJ could file with the owners for the May meeting. What would Goodell have to hold over our heads? next yrs draft picks? screw him.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Ruhskins;904378]Someone told me that Tampa Bay abstained from voting. I'm curious as to why they did it.

And it is also on this article in the Washington Post...

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/nfl-teams-back-decision-to-cut-salary-cap-of-redskins-cowboys/2012/03/27/gIQA7HpZeS_blog.html]NFL teams back decision to cut salary cap of Redskins, Cowboys - The Insider - The Washington Post[/url][/quote]

Hmmm... I just naturally assumed it was the Raiders. Well then, why would the Raiders vote against us, too?

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Ruhskins;904380]The Watchmen?

[IMG]http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_d2LJSkL_g1RbvoZJDUdjPRKjNQM-UOOTbDKO_qJT-viB-PmNSZX68mncUg[/IMG][/quote]

Hahaha what a terrible movie.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=skinsguy;904359]It's more or less a formality.[/quote]

Formality. yes. There are always steps to be taken in order. We had to file before anything could be done. I'm sure Goodell had to take a vote to protect the league. Maybe the vote comes back - no give the CAP space back. Then everything else is moot, DS and JJ would have dropped Arbitration. My guess is some of the teams spent the extra CAP so it could not be given back which is why the vote ended the way it did.

Next up Arbitration. Hopefully the Nutty Profesor will be fair.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

Looks like John Mara will get to profit from his push to have the Redskins/Cowboys caps reduced, the Giants are playing the Cowboys in the NFL opener.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=mbedner3420;904365]29-2-1?

Does anyone else find it odd that one of the two other teams affected by the cap situation, the saints, didn't side with us on that vote? They were adversely affected in some ways by the NFL's decision, but they wen't along with the vote anyway... Odd.[/quote]

Saints arent trying to ruffle any feathers right now

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=mbedner3420;904391]Hmmm... I just naturally assumed it was the Raiders. Well then, why would the Raiders vote against us, too?[/quote]

To stay on Rog's good side

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Ruhskins;904394]Looks like John Mara will get to profit from his push to have the Redskins/Cowboys caps reduced, the Giants are playing the Cowboys in the NFL opener.[/quote]


In the past the Super Bowl winner has open the NFL season.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Giantone;904465]In the past the Super Bowl winner has open the NFL season.[/quote]

I meant more as the Giants getting to play the Cowboys, of course I know the SB winner gets to play the first game genius.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

I GOT IT! How about.....GATEGATE! It's an infinite scandal loop.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;904485]I GOT IT! How about.....GATEGATE! It's an infinite scandal loop.[/quote]

Infinitygate?

[IMG]http://bringingforthworldequality.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/infinity.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Dirtbag59;904485]I GOT IT! How about.....GATEGATE! It's an infinite scandal loop.[/QUOTE]

Hey! I already claimed gategate. I can't link to it but look in my previous posts. :D

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Giantone;904465]In the past the Super Bowl winner has open the NFL season.[/quote]

Wow, where the heck have you been? You come on here after it's announced the two teams are taking it to arbitration and make weird outragous comments of how no one agrees the Redskins and Cowboys are right in any of this or are siding with them. Several of us post links to media personell who all agree with the two teams and think this is all hogwash and how they believe in the long run the two teams will win this arbitration and your no where to be found. No comment. Simply ignored. Then you come to .... give a PSA about how in the past the SB winner has opened the NFL season?

I Giantone, hope you've had a nice couple of days. Just wanted to point out your were wrong by the way, its actually totally backwards in the fact the majority of the media and fans belive the Skins and Boys are right in all this. But I'll give you your props... the clueless owners belive the two teams are wrong in what they did and have amnesia in regards to their own collussion.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=mooby;904506]Hey! I already claimed gategate. I can't link to it but look in my previous posts. :D[/quote]

No you stole my idea, edited your post and then removed the edit time stamp. Gategate anddddddddd MATCH! Bia bia why you acting like a......thing?

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

I know this will be hard to stomach. I'm sorry. After clicking the link wait a few seconds to get aclimated then read the OP post. He does bring up a good point. Mara wanted to stick it to the Redskins and Cowboys so bad he chose not to lower the CAP by 3-7mill per team which would have saved the NFL 96-224mill for the one year in order to simply fine the Redskins and Cowboys 46 mill.

[url=http://www.truebluefanclub.com/socialnet/forums.cfm?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3a24d8e8bc-b132-4a6f-81fa-ab728a950ed1Forum%3a140ede96-a57c-412f-826a-3047cb49bbe1Discussion%3abedb086e-69ae-4030-95d7-f48bf5f61550]True Blue - Forums[/url]

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Ruhskins;904484]I meant more as the Giants getting to play the Cowboys, of course I know the SB winner gets to play the first game genius.[/quote]

....how is that more profitable then lets say opening against the Saints or Greenbay?

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=SBXVII;904515]Wow, where the heck have you been? You come on here after it's announced the two teams are taking it to arbitration and make weird outragous comments of how no one agrees the Redskins and Cowboys are right in any of this or are siding with them. Several of us post links to media personell who all agree with the two teams and think this is all hogwash and how they believe in the long run the two teams will win this arbitration and your no where to be found. No comment. Simply ignored. Then you come to .... give a PSA about how in the past the SB winner has opened the NFL season?

I Giantone, hope you've had a nice couple of days. Just wanted to point out your were wrong by the way, its actually totally backwards in the fact the majority of the media and fans belive the Skins and Boys are right in all this. But I'll give you your props... the clueless owners belive the two teams are wrong in what they did and have amnesia in regards to their own collussion.[/quote]

It's called employment as much as I know I'm missed I can't hang here all day.I said it before there must be something we don't know yet which will come out in the end of all this.As we know the media is right about everything so I'll just wait I mean 29-0 with 1 abstaining.... even after the media has proven them wrong,interesting.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;904516]No you stole my idea, edited your post and then removed the edit time stamp. Gategate anddddddddd MATCH! Bia bia why you acting like a......thing?[/quote]

You will be receiving a cease and desist letter very soon from my attorney, Mr. JoeRedskin.

You've made a very powerful enemy, friend.

[IMG]http://images.wikia.com/simpsons/images/6/6a/Mr_Burns_evil.gif[/IMG]

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Giantone;904525]It's called employment as much as I know I'm missed I can't hang here all day.I said it before there must be something we don't know yet which will come out in the end of all this.As we know the media is right about everything so I'll just wait I mean 29-0 with 1 abstaining.... even after the media has proven them wrong,interesting.[/quote]

What in the world would entice those teams to vote against the cap penalties? They received money from it. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Doesn't mean there is some other deep, dark secret thing that hasn't come out yet. As matter of fact, what does keep getting revealed continues to make the NFL look even worse.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;904516]No you stole my idea, edited your post and then removed the edit time stamp. Gategate anddddddddd MATCH! Bia bia why you acting like a......thing?[/quote]

If you keep arguing about it, it may become Gategategate.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=HoopheadVII;904554]If you keep arguing about it, it may become Gategategate.[/quote]

as long as its not SwingingGate

[url=http://www.aolnews.com/2009/12/22/the-failure-that-was-the-redskins-swinging-gate/]The Failure That Was the Redskins' Swinging Gate[/url]

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

The problem with this is that Goodell and/or the Management Council Executive Committee overstepped their authority by modifying the salary cap as a penalty, but the owners as a group have more authority. Goodell can fine up to $500k, suspend individuals or take draft picks. The MCEC reports to Goodell and has the authority to negotiate with the NFLPA on behalf of the NFL.

The Executive Committee however - made up of ownership reps of all 30 teams - can impose whatever penalties they want as long as 24 votes support it. The Commissioner reports to the Executive Committee. Since the two teams were asked to leave the room, I'm guessing the meeting yesterday wasn't an actual Exec Committee meeting, just a show of hands - but it doesn't bode well. Basically, there's nothing to be discussed in arbitration if the Exec Committee imposes penalties.

Plus, if the two teams involved fight it, Goodell does have the authority to take away draft picks - his nuclear option is no RG3.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

A lot of the same crap is being spewed out over and over again in this thread and elsewhere on this topic, making this.....REGURGIGATE

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=HoopheadVII;904556]The problem with this is that Goodell and/or the Management Council Executive Committee overstepped their authority by modifying the salary cap as a penalty, but the owners as a group have more authority. Goodell can fine up to $500k, suspend individuals or take draft picks. The MCEC reports to Goodell and has the authority to negotiate with the NFLPA on behalf of the NFL.

The Executive Committee however - made up of ownership reps of all 30 teams - can impose whatever penalties they want as long as 24 votes support it. The Commissioner reports to the Executive Committee. Since the two teams were asked to leave the room, I'm guessing the meeting yesterday wasn't an actual Exec Committee meeting, just a show of hands - but it doesn't bode well. Basically, there's nothing to be discussed in arbitration if the Exec Committee imposes penalties.

Plus, if the two teams involved fight it, Goodell does have the authority to take away draft picks - his nuclear option is no RG3.[/quote]
Given that it is now in the arbitrator's hands, I doubt any swift occurrence like loss of draft picks would occur before this year's draft.

And as has been said many times, you can't have a vote and make an invalid action valid. I don't care how many guys in a group vote to rob the nearest liquor store, the ones who opt not to rob it are in the right.

The reason the arbitration clause exists is to prevent situations where any one party or group has an undue ability to put their will into effect unchecked. The Skins and Cowboys certainly will have plenty to discuss with the arbitrator, regardless of whether the Executive Committee votes for penalties or not.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

For clarity here's how the NFL Bylaws say the entities work:

NFL Executive Committee
- Highest NFL body
- Requires 24 votes to do anything
- Cannot reduce Commissioner discipline imposed within his authority under 8.13(A)

Commissioner
- Reports to NFL Executive Committee
- Appoints all other committees
- Has power to impose discipline under 8.13(A) up to certain levels: $500k fine, draft picks, suspensions
- Has power to recommend additional penalties to Executive Committee under 8.13(B)

Management Council Executive Committee
- Appointed by Commissioner
- Has exclusive authority to negotiate CBA with NFLPA
- Presumably only has authority to impose discipline through Commissioner and his authority

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=HoopheadVII;904556]The problem with this is that Goodell and/or the Management Council Executive Committee overstepped their authority by modifying the salary cap as a penalty, but the owners as a group have more authority. Goodell can fine up to $500k, suspend individuals or take draft picks. The MCEC reports to Goodell and has the authority to negotiate with the NFLPA on behalf of the NFL.

The Executive Committee however - made up of ownership reps of all 30 teams - can impose whatever penalties they want as long as 24 votes support it. The Commissioner reports to the Executive Committee. Since the two teams were asked to leave the room, I'm guessing the meeting yesterday wasn't an actual Exec Committee meeting, just a show of hands - but it doesn't bode well. Basically, there's nothing to be discussed in arbitration if the Exec Committee imposes penalties.

Plus, if the two teams involved fight it, Goodell does have the authority to take away draft picks - his nuclear option is no RG3.[/quote]
Excellent info right there. Very well done.

But why just the Redskins and Cowboys? If this is a precedent that the NFL and the Executive Committee is establishing, then should not every contract extension, or, free agent signing RFA tender etc that was in the uncapped year be called into question?

I am sure the Skins and Cowboys were not the only 2 teams in the league that had contracts, in one way or the other, that used monies in the uncapped season? Why these 2 teams?

It is sounding more and more like a witch hunt to me.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

My best guess is that procedurally, the vote yesterday may have been a vote to accept the MCEC's agreement with the NFLPA.

If that's the case, not sure how it affects arbitration. The CBA has an arbitration procedure clubs can participate in, but if this vote modifies the CBA, not sure there's anything to arbitrate - the modified salary cap is the law under the CBA.

Even if the two clubs win in arbitration, they're in trouble if >24 other owners are intent on punishing them. The Commissioner can take away the #2 pick in the upcoming draft, and the Executive Committee can pretty much do whatever they want (including forcing Snyder to sell the team*) with 24 votes.


*please, please, please

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;904558]Given that it is now in the arbitrator's hands, I doubt any swift occurrence like loss of draft picks would occur before this year's draft.

And as has been said many times, you can't have a vote and make an invalid action valid. I don't care how many guys in a group vote to rob the nearest liquor store, the ones who opt not to rob it are in the right.

The reason the arbitration clause exists is to prevent situations where any one party or group has an undue ability to put their will into effect unchecked. The Skins and Cowboys certainly will have plenty to discuss with the arbitrator, regardless of whether the Executive Committee votes for penalties or not.[/quote]

Ultimately, these are two members of a club of 32, and the bylaws of that club say 24 votes can pass just about anything.

Arbitration is relief under the CBA, but the authority of the Executive Committee to impose discipline on its members supercedes that.

Ultimately, they can probably sue the League on antitrust grounds a la Al Davis, but I think they'd rather bite this bullet than go down that route.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;904561]Excellent info right there. Very well done.

But why just the Redskins and Cowboys? If this is a precedent that the NFL and the Executive Committee is establishing, then should not every contract extension, or, free agent signing RFA tender etc that was in the uncapped year be called into question?

I am sure the Skins and Cowboys were not the only 2 teams in the league that had contracts, in one way or the other, that used monies in the uncapped season? Why these 2 teams?

It is sounding more and more like a witch hunt to me.[/quote]

If I had to guess, it probably has to do with the 'Skins actively restructuring existing contracts to move the cap hit forward into 2010. I suppose, in the other owners' minds that's worse than just signing new contracts and taking a big hit in 2010.

The Haynesworth contract was specifically redone to move later cap hits into 2010. Creative accounting designed specifically to free up future cap space.

Whether it's fair to punish someone for trying to free up future cap space under a cap that may or may not exist in the future is another question, but the 'Skins were trying to shift future cap hit into the uncapped year.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=mooby;904528]You will be receiving a cease and desist letter very soon from my attorney, Mr. JoeRedskin.

You've made a very powerful enemy, friend. [/quote]

Dear Dirtbag59:

Please CEASE & DESIST your use of the phrase "Gategate". Trademark and Copyright papers have been filed showing ownership of this intellectual property to belong solely to mooby. Continued use of the phrase gategate or any iteration thereof without proper attribution will result in civil penalties, possible avatar related modifications and the continued ridicule of you by me with lots of big words and some latin thrown in an [I]ad hoc[/I] manner [I]ad infinitum[/I].

In addition, everyone will know you are a big fat weenie.

Mooby - you will be receiving my bill in your private messages.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=HoopheadVII;904566]Ultimately, these are two members of a club of 32, and the bylaws of that club say 24 votes can pass just about anything.

[B]Arbitration is relief under the CBA, but the authority of the Executive Committee to impose discipline on its members supercedes that.
[/B]
Ultimately, they can probably sue the League on antitrust grounds a la Al Davis, but I think they'd rather bite this bullet than go down that route.[/quote]
Do you have anything to substantiate that? My understanding is that the arbitration is allowed due to a specific clause in the CBA, and that all parties agree to the fact that arbitration is binding.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

We have received no written notice from Mooby or his associates in regards to the 'gate' controversies.