Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/7496/quick-takes-cousins-talk-redskins-targets]Quick takes: Cousins talk; Redskins targets - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN[/url]

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1070451]I wouldn't mind adding a pass rushing D-linemen. I also wouldn't mind us trading up to get Ha Ha Clinton Dix either.[/quote]

His parents should have been threatened with jail time when they tried to name him Ha Ha, the poor soul.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2tL4xUZP_8[/url]


[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8kVKo5HiV0[/url]

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

I havent followed the draft at all but .... i dont understand the talk about a need for pass rusher given that we signed a supposedly penetrating DE in hatcher, orakpo is a pass rush specialist and kerrigan does a good job getting into the backfield as well.

unless they want options so they can let rak walk next year?

im all for BPA but if there is a RT, ILB, FS and DE/OLB with the same grade, id go in that order.

i know protecting the quarterback and getting to the quarterback are 2 big pillars of football but id really like to see RT addressed with some actual resources instead of picking up a couple OL bodies at the end of the draft and claim we addressed the RT need.

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1070455]His parents should have been threatened with jail time when they tried to name him Ha Ha, the poor soul.[/QUOTE]


Well yours named you KI Skins fan.....😄

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=punch it in;1070475]Well yours named you KI Skins fan.....��[/quote]

I am a proud resident of Kent Island which is located in the Chesapeake Bay east of Annapolis, Maryland.

My parents named me Cosmo Kramer and my childhood nickname was Honey Boo-Boo.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=Mattyk;1070453][url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/7496/quick-takes-cousins-talk-redskins-targets]Quick takes: Cousins talk; Redskins targets - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN[/url][/quote]

I'm a BYU grad. Although I'd still like to see us go RT if the top two guys are on the board, Van Noy would be a great pick and he'd do well transitioning to ILB in the NFL.

I don't think he's quite big enough for the 3-4 OLB position, but he's got the smarts, coverage skills, and speed to be a good ILB and he would add a GREAT pass rush option when we blitzed or dropped our OLBs into coverage to confuse the offense. He's also an outstanding character guy and would be a strong locker room presence.

Only question mark is how long the transition to IL would take to master (we did alright changing positions for our current OLBs), but we've got enough options at ILB this year that we could afford to bring Van Noy along as slowly as needed, let him play STs (he's very good there, too), and have him ready in a year or two to be the long-term, full-time ILB starter.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1070463][url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2tL4xUZP_8[/url]


[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8kVKo5HiV0[/url][/quote]

Is it just me or does he have more of a build of a safety and not ILB? Love the hustle and block shedding ability though.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=skinsfanthru&thru;1070487]Is it just me or does he have more of a build of a safety and not ILB? Love the hustle and block shedding ability though.[/quote]

Last year I wondered if he might try to go the safety route in the NFL, but he ended up putting on some muscle this off-season and I think he'll do fine as an ILB.

As you pointed out, his DE/OLB experience gave him great hands for shedding blocks, so that will help when he's matched up with bigger guys.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

6-3 243lbs ? Safety?

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1070490]6-3 243lbs ? Safety?[/quote]

He definitely doesn't look 243 unless that happened since the season ended. Dude looks like he's barely 210-220 in these videos which isn't even close to ILB size.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

If we drafted Van Noy, I just couldn't see us moving him to safety, regardless of weight. The dude is a monster pass rusher and has great ball instincts. He needs to be around the ball as much as possible, so ILB would be great for him. He's solid in coverage, and I think he could develop into a decent safety, but he's a linebacker all the way, IMO.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

Another 10 lbs or so and he'll be fine for playing inside. He's tall so I think it makes him look slimmer than he really is.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

Frame wise he reminded me of Jason Taylor a little

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=SirLK26;1070452]Well, great defenses are just a part of one recipe for a SB. Because in addition to a great defense, Seattle has a consistent offense that can score points when they're needed and also run out the clock, as well as a solid special teams unit. And Denver made it to the SB by riding an offense that just crushed everyone with points. Sure, you can argue that they lost in the end, but the most important thing is that they made it there. San Francisco has a great defense, and they lost to the Ravens in the 2012 SB. The Ravens weren't great at anything, but solid everywhere and just got hot at the right time.

That list could go on. The point is that building a great defense isn't the only way to get to the SB. You can get there with pretty much any combination as long as you're solid overall.

That out of the way, I think you know I'll be happy going secondary at #34, especially if it's Verrett. I just want us to take a great player at a position of need who can contribute early and also in the long run. Really, really can't afford to flub this pick up. Honestly, a great RT makes the most sense at #34, because we won't be going to the SB for a few years yet even if things work out like they're supposed to; we might as well protect RG3 as he improves in the meantime and make sure he's still standing 5 years down the road. Please, Allen, just make a smart choice and I'll be happy.[/quote]

I understand protecting RGIII, but it can only go so far at the expense of your team as a whole. There's a big disparity between the talent level on offense and defense right now. I know it's not a popular opinion (going against upgrading both sides of the lines), but it's a greater upgrade for the team as a whole if the Redskins upgrade secondary versus any other position or part of the team. Neglecting a major need in the secondary year after year to create a stout offensive line - doesn't make sense to me. It's just really unbalanced. And it also indirectly creates undue pressure on RGIII and the Redskins offense by needing to consistently score more points than a weak defense is giving them up.

RGIII will need to adapt to the weak link at the offensive line in Polumbus. And by all accounts by the current and past regimes, the coaches don't feel he's that bad. The Redskins also can't operate like RGIII is as fragile as a china doll.

At least last season's weak link was upgraded with the addition and shuffle at the center and guard positions.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

where are we posting our mocks?

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

... and I'm sold on Deone Bucannon. He has everything and all the potential in the world. Only thing keeping him under the radar is - he's from Washington State.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

Inside linebacker also isn't as great a need as most think compared to what the Redskins coaches think. Keenan Robinson was receiving the highest praise from Haslett during recent workouts. They also have a bunch of veterans there that the Redskins brought in to hedge their bets a bit.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=warriorzpath;1070503]Inside linebacker also isn't as great a need as most think compared to what the Redskins coaches think. Keenan Robinson was receiving the highest praise from Haslett during recent workouts. They also have a bunch of veterans there that the Redskins brought in to hedge their bets a bit.[/quote]

Disagree, injured 2 years in a row, backups are backups at best.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1070504]Disagree, injured 2 years in a row, backups are backups at best.[/quote]
Got some insider perspective on how he's developed? Being injured and playing like a backup are 2 different things.

And he was backing up a player that has produced near Hall of Fame numbers.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=warriorzpath;1070498]I understand protecting RGIII, but it can only go so far at the expense of your team as a whole. There's a big disparity between the talent level on offense and defense right now. I know it's not a popular opinion (going against upgrading both sides of the lines), but it's a greater upgrade for the team as a whole if the Redskins upgrade secondary versus any other position or part of the team. Neglecting a major need in the secondary year after year to create a stout offensive line - doesn't make sense to me. It's just really unbalanced. And it also indirectly creates undue pressure on RGIII and the Redskins offense by needing to consistently score more points than a weak defense is giving them up.

RGIII will need to adapt to the weak link at the offensive line in Polumbus. And by all accounts by the current and past regimes, the coaches don't feel he's that bad. The Redskins also can't operate like RGIII is as fragile as a china doll.

At least last season's weak link was upgraded with the addition and shuffle at the center and guard positions.[/quote]

A lot of your first paragraph is true, but to specifically target an area of the team and then to go into the draft and try to fix that area even at the expense of taking better players just isn't smart. I want us to take the highest rated player on our board, that rating obviously taking into account talent and character as well as need. That is the only way to build a team. And apparently our current FO understands that, because they used FA, for the most part, exactly how you're supposed to: a way to build depth. With the additions of Tracy Porter and Ryan Clark, secondary isn't as big of a need as it was when FA started, so now they can go into the draft and take BPA. They don't have to go into pick #34 and say, "Okay, there's a lot of great players available, but our secondary is in such need that let's take this guy even though there's higher rated players at different positions on our board."

If a DB is BPA at #34, I'll be leaping up and down as high as you. Because secondary is a big need and needs to be taken care of, I agree. But not at the expense of a better player at a different position.

About my comment on RTs, I wasn't suggesting that we reach for one or specifically target one with our first pick at all. I was saying that if a RT is BPA, that could be better for our team long-term than if a DB is BPA.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=warriorzpath;1070500]... and I'm sold on Deone Bucannon. He has everything and all the potential in the world. Only thing keeping him under the radar is - he's from Washington State.[/quote]

Yup, I am too. He's a great safety with a very high ceiling, IMO.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=SirLK26;1070507]A lot of your first paragraph is true, but to specifically target an area of the team and then to go into the draft and try to fix that area even at the expense of taking better players just isn't smart. I want us to take the highest rated player on our board, that rating obviously taking into account talent and character as well as need. That is the only way to build a team. And apparently our current FO understands that, because they used FA, for the most part, exactly how you're supposed to: a way to build depth. With the additions of Tracy Porter and Ryan Clark, secondary isn't as big of a need as it was when FA started, so now they can go into the draft and take BPA. They don't have to go into pick #34 and say, "Okay, there's a lot of great players available, but our secondary is in such need that let's take this guy even though there's higher rated players at different positions on our board."

If a DB is BPA at #34, I'll be leaping up and down as high as you. Because secondary is a big need and needs to be taken care of, I agree. But not at the expense of a better player at a different position.

About my comment on RTs, I wasn't suggesting that we reach for one or specifically target one with our first pick at all. I was saying that if a RT is BPA, that could be better for our team long-term than if a DB is BPA.[/quote]

The thing about BPA that most fans don't understand though is - most teams don't go about the draft with pure BPA. They create their draft board with the players they rank - relative to their needs. In other words, needs impact player rankings.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

... so the higher the need at a position -> the higher the team's ranking of a player at that position.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=warriorzpath;1070510]The thing about BPA that most fans don't understand though is - most teams don't go about the draft with pure BPA. They create their draft board with the players they rank - relative to their needs. In other words, needs impact player rankings.[/quote]

Yep, thus this quote from my post, "I want us to take the highest rated player on our board, that rating obviously taking into account [B]talent and character as well as need.[/B]" If Verrett is available, he'll likely be BPA according to our board. But if a less talented guy like, say, Ward, is available at #34 along with, say, Moses, I'd say it would be quite likely Moses would be BPA on our board.

I think we're basically saying the same thing, it's just that secondary is a bigger need to you than it is to me.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

Essentially when the teams create a draft board, they target positions of need and/or of greatest impact first. If you've played Fantasy Football, it's similiar to your draft strategy in that.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=warriorzpath;1070498]I understand protecting RGIII, but it can only go so far at the expense of your team as a whole. There's a big disparity between the talent level on offense and defense right now. I know it's not a popular opinion (going against upgrading both sides of the lines), but it's a greater upgrade for the team as a whole if the Redskins upgrade secondary versus any other position or part of the team. Neglecting a major need in the secondary year after year to create a stout offensive line - doesn't make sense to me. It's just really unbalanced. And it also indirectly creates undue pressure on RGIII and the Redskins offense by needing to consistently score more points than a weak defense is giving them up.

RGIII will need to adapt to the weak link at the offensive line in Polumbus. And by all accounts by the current and past regimes, the coaches don't feel he's that bad. The Redskins also can't operate like RGIII is as fragile as a china doll.

At least last season's weak link was upgraded with the addition and shuffle at the center and guard positions.[/quote]

Umm. Were you alive last year? We drafted amerson, Rambo and Thomas. How'd that turn out? The redskins need large men who can play. Lots of them. A team with a pass rush can get away with smoke and mirrors in the secondary. A team with an OL can protect a lead, get away with average QB play, and make up for a whole host of other problems. Build this team at the point of attack, we've got enough to make hay outside of that. It'll take a couple years. OL, DL, LB and TE are the areas I'd key in on for this years team. If a nice player at another position falls to us by all means take him. We need football players, just focus on the big ones if given the option.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=TenandSix:Unacceptable;1070520]Umm. Were you alive last year? We drafted amerson, Rambo and Thomas. How'd that turn out? The redskins need large men who can play. Lots of them. A team with a pass rush can get away with smoke and mirrors in the secondary. A team with an OL can protect a lead, get away with average QB play, and make up for a whole host of other problems. Build this team at the point of attack, we've got enough to make hay outside of that. It'll take a couple years. OL, DL, LB and TE are the areas I'd key in on for this years team. If a nice player at another position falls to us by all means take him. We need football players, just focus on the big ones if given the option.[/quote]

Neglect was the wrong word to use - should have said: failed to solve the secondary issues.

It didn't work out because Amerson, Rambo, and Thomas didn't produce for the team. Look at all the great defenses (and as a result great teams) in the league, at the very least their secondaries were solid. The Redskins - not so much. There are question marks everywhere.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=warriorzpath;1070528]Neglect was the wrong word to use - should have said: failed to solve the secondary issues.

It didn't work out because Amerson, Rambo, and Thomas didn't produce for the team. Look at all the great defenses (and as a result great teams) in the league, at the very least their secondaries were solid. The Redskins - not so much. There are question marks everywhere.[/quote]

Sherman from the Seahawks was drafted in 2011. He made his mark last year. Maybe a little in 2012.

Can we please give the guys we drafted last year at least 1 year's grace before we throw them out into the muddy river of NFL wannabees?

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=warriorzpath;1070528]Neglect was the wrong word to use - should have said: failed to solve the secondary issues.

It didn't work out because Amerson, Rambo, and Thomas didn't produce for the team. Look at all the great defenses (and as a result great teams) in the league, at the very least their secondaries were solid. The Redskins - not so much. There are question marks everywhere.[/quote]

[I]Rambo didnt produce.[/I]

Thomas was injured.
Amerson looks like a CB starter this year.

And they were r o o k i e s...................

*insert huge roll eyes icon here*

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=warriorzpath;1070528]Neglect was the wrong word to use - should have said: failed to solve the secondary issues.

It didn't work out because Amerson, Rambo, and Thomas didn't produce for the team. Look at all the great defenses (and as a result great teams) in the league, at the very least their secondaries were solid. The Redskins - not so much. There are question marks everywhere.[/quote]

Guess what? It takes a couple of years for draft pick strapped teams bereft of quality depth to plug all the holes. I'd build around QB, Coaching, point of attack then everything else. We got a new coach, a QB with unlimited potential, and hodge podge up front. We've got Orakpo, Kerrigan and Trent Williams in the trenches. Now you can add Hatcher. Everyone else is solid or worse. That's not enough horses to win the war of attrition of an NFL football season. Think of it like a foundation of a house. You build that before you start painting the walls. The other parts of the team are unimportant until you can beat teams up front. That's why I'd build big and then plug in other players later. I learned my lesson after wanting Laron Landry.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=TenandSix:Unacceptable;1070520]Umm. Were you alive last year? We drafted amerson, Rambo and Thomas. How'd that turn out?...[/quote]

We got a new starting CB and a possible starting SS, and Rambo in all likelihood will be better this season. So I wouldn't say it turned out bad, but we still need secondary help; to the tune of a starting FS, slot corner, another outside corner to develop, and more all-around secondary depth. And even if all these DBs we drafted last year were starters, they wouldn't have turned our season around; just like if we had drafted 3 trench guys, they wouldn't have turned our season around. Your point about how a good pass rush can make up for a bad secondary is somewhat true; and I say somewhat because a good secondary is also quite important in today's NFL.

This team has deficiences all around. We can't draft trenches just because that's the correct way to build a team. We need to take BPA, and use FA to build depth so that we can use BPA strategy.

[QUOTE=los panda;1070499]where are we posting our mocks?[/QUOTE]


I saw a bunch in the 2014 draft prospects thread. You have one hour. Lol

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=SirLK26;1070537]We got a new starting CB and a possible starting SS, and Rambo in all likelihood will be better this season. So I wouldn't say it turned out bad, but we still need secondary help; to the tune of a starting FS, slot corner, another outside corner to develop, and more all-around secondary depth. And even if all these DBs we drafted last year were starters, they wouldn't have turned our season around; just like if we had drafted 3 trench guys, they wouldn't have turned our season around. Your point about how a good pass rush can make up for a bad secondary is somewhat true; and I say somewhat because a good secondary is also quite important in today's NFL.

This team has deficiences all around. We can't draft trenches just because that's the correct way to build a team. We need to take BPA, and use FA to build depth so that we can use BPA strategy.[/quote]

This team has failed to draft enough OL and DL repeatedly in the first two rounds. Reverse the trend the team will benefit. We are an injury or two from having the worst LB's in the league too. Draft more of them and draft them higher in the draft. Most will bust you need to take repeated shots at it. I'd love better DB's. We can't fix both issues this draft I'd concentrate on bigs unless someone I truly coveted was available at another area.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1070530]Sherman from the Seahawks was drafted in 2011. He made his mark last year. Maybe a little in 2012.

Can we please give the guys we drafted last year at least 1 year's grace before we throw them out into the muddy river of NFL wannabees?[/quote]


Sherman - Maybe a little in 2012? In 2012 is when he broke through.

I'm hoping Amerson and Thomas prove me wrong and I would be happy, but they didn't show much except flashes here and there.

Rambo's start was so low, I'm surprised he hasn't been cut a long time ago. I would be pleasantly surprised if he wasn't cut before the start of regular season because that would mean that he was playing 100 times better.

Drafting Verrett or Bucannon would be a major upgrade over all 3 players now - even after their rookie season. There's no arguing at the very least that Bucannon is an upgrade over Thomas and Rambo. Thomas might have done well, but there was no telling that for sure before he got hurt. And now he's coming off an injury.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

... I'm telling you- there are major question marks still in the secondary. At every spot.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

... Amerson and Thomas are still in the "potential" zone.

[QUOTE=warriorzpath;1070550]... I'm telling you- there are major question marks still in the secondary. At every spot.[/QUOTE]


Of course there are, but Amerson, Rambo, and Thomas might still pan out.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

[quote=punch it in;1070552]Of course there are, but Amerson, Rambo, and Thomas might still pan out.[/quote]

It reminds me of before last season, when everyone on here - kept telling me: Just let Rambo start while he learns. He wasn't even ready to get on the field last year. My point/question is- how long do you wait until you try doing something? how long is long enough? Because if you don't try to address some of those issues now in the draft, it's a long wait until next off season. And who knows if the players available in next year's draft will be as good as Verrett or Bucannon.

Re: 34th Overall Pick
 

And like with Rambo starting last season - I just don't understand why you guys don't see the same thing. I was arguing with 20 different people on here (with Rambo), like I am now.