Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

[quote=MTK;1141476]If VD can get his shit together he could definitely be a nice weapon.[/quote]

That's a big if. It's rare to find a player that becomes a major contributor with a new team after years of decline. Still, if the coaching staff thinks he has plenty left I'm cool with it.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

I like the Vernon Davis signing. We have three TE's coming off of injury (or not) and the draft class for TE's is meh. I'm sure they got him on a reasonable contract and it's just for one year.

On the optimistic side, we could have a very good TE group if everybody can get and stay healthy. We already have an elite receiving TE in Jordan Reed. Niles Paul was looking great all-around last year before he got hurt. I think Logan Paulsen was a solid contributor, primarily as a blocker. Vernon Davis can give us another Red Zone threat at the very least and possibly much more. It looks like we won't be carrying a FB this season, so I'm thinking we could carry 4 TE's on the roster. Yeah, I like this signing.

Side note: I'm going to miss Darrell Young. He contributed a lot to this team. He was what Joe Gibbs called "a true Redskin". Best wishes, DY!

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/24339/redskins-add-needed-depth-with-vernon-davis]Washington Redskins add needed depth with Vernon Davis - Washington Redskins Blog- ESPN[/url]

well documented that Vernon davis cares about one person only, Vernon davis. Im just hoping Niles Paul and Paulson can recover from those injuries and Reed can remain healthy. This is a good signing for depth, but hopefully he sees limited playing time.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

[quote=Chico23231;1141479][url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/24339/redskins-add-needed-depth-with-vernon-davis]Washington Redskins add needed depth with Vernon Davis - Washington Redskins Blog- ESPN[/url]

well documented that Vernon davis cares about one person only, Vernon davis. Im just hoping Niles Paul and Paulson can recover from those injuries and Reed can remain healthy. This is a good signing for depth, but hopefully he sees limited playing time.[/quote]Eh, no keeping secrets do tell....

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

[quote=30gut;1141484]Eh, no keeping secrets do tell....[/quote]

well the beat writer keim linked to wrote a pretty damning review of davis. it's been a long time since he was a TD magnet.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

Davis contract

Vernon Davis deal with WASH better than I thought: 1 yr, $2.38125M with $1.1M full guarantee. Another $2.1M in incentives. #9news #9sports

not sure what the cap number will be

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1141493]Davis contract

Vernon Davis deal with WASH better than I thought: 1 yr, $2.38125M with $1.1M full guarantee. Another $2.1M in incentives. #9news #9sports

not sure what the cap number will be[/quote]

It's a reasonable and manageable contract, just as I expected. My trust in Scot is rock solid.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1141493]Davis contract

Vernon Davis deal with WASH better than I thought: 1 yr, $2.38125M with $1.1M full guarantee. Another $2.1M in incentives. #9news #9sports

not sure what the cap number will be[/quote]

I'm fine with that. Just as I thought, very small, very short contract. A "Prove me you're worth it" deal. I like it.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

It's a little more than we're paying Niles. He's getting $2.0M per year on avg annual basis. I know contract doesn't necessarily dictate pecking order on the field, so probably not a big deal. And there's a difference due to inflation etc. based on when Niles' deal was signed.

But I hope Niles is our #2. I view Davis as worth very little aside from blocking at this point in his career. Last year kind of proves that.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

I read this piece, saw this sentence:

[QUOTE]It wasn’t that long ago, but it’s easy to forget. At the beginning of training camp last year, Niles Paul was named the starting tight end for the Washington Redskins, a designation he earned after signing a new contract, bulking up close to 30 pounds and impressing coaches during OTAs.[/QUOTE]

And I was like WTF what real fan could have forgotten that? Reed had a dominant season last year, and that came after Paul beat him out in camp for the starting spot and then lost that spot only because of major injury.

Paul is one of my favorite Redskins and he's going to show why by working harder than anybody, coming back and burying Vernon Davis on the depth chart. If it has anything to do with heart and effort, it will happen. If it's a physical limitation due to the injury, then that's a shame, because I thought he was on the verge of a major breakout.

Pulling for him.

[url=http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/With-Vernon-Davis-In-The-Mix-Niles-Paul-Is-Ready-For-The-Competition/cff2fa3d-bde7-4a55-84d6-ba0dd0f63905]With Vernon Davis In The Mix, Niles Paul Is Ready For The Competition[/url]

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

^^ Agreed. I have liked him from practically day 1.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

Reed is crazy talented and the clear #1, staying healthy was always his Achilles heal. When healthy he's clearly head and shoulders above Paul.

I like Paul's chances to stay ahead of VD on the depth chart though.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

VD hasn't done much lately, it's on him to prove he deserves to play.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

Niles is a solid player coming off a season ending injury his career best receiving year he netted 39 catches which is only 1 catch more then Vernon playing on 2 different teams with 4 different QBs. Not to mention that he's instantly the best blocking TE on the roster behind Paulsen.

Whether is through a competition, climbing up the depth chart or being named the #2 TE I fully expect Vernon to become the #2 TE by opening day.

Imo this is move we should be happy about not turning into a Vernon vs Niles.
This move makes the team better.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

^ if Niles is 100% he is easily the 2nd TE. The problem is 100% is highly unlikely. Davis is pushing Paulson for time IMO.

Vernon Davis needs someone to light a fire...hopefully someone can on this staff.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

[quote=30gut;1141542]Niles is a solid player coming off a season ending injury his career best receiving year he netted 39 catches which is only 1 catch more then Vernon playing on 2 different teams with 4 different QBs. Not to mention that he's instantly the best blocking TE on the roster behind Paulsen.

Whether is through a competition, climbing up the depth chart or being named the #2 TE I fully expect Vernon to become the #2 TE by opening day.

Imo this is move we should be happy about not turning into a Vernon vs Niles.
This move makes the team better.[/quote]

You're giving too much credit to a quickly aging player. Definitely agree that depth is a great thing but I don't think VD pushes Niles. Jay loves him. If McC had control over depth chart then maybe, but Jay loves Niles.

I think it's even too much to say that when healthy Reed is the clear number one. Remember Reed was healthy in camp and Paul got the starting gig anyway. Think about that. Gruden was seeing what Reed could do in practice throughout camp, yet he gave Paul the starting job. After the call he made on Cousins over Griffin I think we need to give Jay a little credit. I think the gap between Reed and Paul, when both are healthy, is a lot tighter than we think.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

[quote=Schneed10;1141548]You're giving too much credit to a quickly aging player. Definitely agree that depth is a great thing but I don't think VD pushes Niles. Jay loves him. If McC had control over depth chart then maybe, but Jay loves Niles.

I think it's even too much to say that when healthy Reed is the clear number one. Remember Reed was healthy in camp and Paul got the starting gig anyway. Think about that. Gruden was seeing what Reed could do in practice throughout camp, yet he gave Paul the starting job. After the call he made on Cousins over Griffin I think we need to give Jay a little credit. I think the gap between Reed and Paul, when both are healthy, is a lot tighter than we think.[/quote]

After what we saw from Reed last season, he's gotta be our clear #1 tight end, even with his problems as a blocker. There's just nothing I've seen from Niles Paul that makes me think he has anywhere near the game breaking skill of Jordan Reed. Having said that, having both Niles and Jordan and Jordan healthy on the roster is a nice problem to have...

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

i think niles being #1 in TC doesn't amount to much. reed showed up in games. maybe he just looks bad in practice and that's all it meant. we've heard coaches brag about ryan grant for 2 years and have seen absolutely nothing to back it up in games. being right on kirk doesn't make him infallible.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

We'll see. You may well be right. NP was solid, but not spectacular, at TE for a couple years. However, before last year, Reed had flashed but not been consistent or able to stay on the field. NP suffers a season ending injury and Reed took advantage of the opportunity. Reed is the clear No. 1, but NP should be a more than solid No. 2 TE - plus, he's huge on special teams.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

I definitely think some of you guys here have short memories. I think you're vastly underrating his ability to uncover. Reed took great strides forward this past season, but you need to be reminded that Paul is a very nice mix of blocking AND an ability to uncover.

[url=http://www.redskins.com/media-gallery/videos/Niles-Paul-2014-Highlights/dca3db2c-d4a3-44da-a1d5-34b283fb4761]Niles Paul 2014 Highlights[/url]

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

[quote=Schneed10;1141562]I definitely think some of you guys here have short memories. I think you're vastly underrating his ability to uncover. Reed took great strides forward this past season, but you need to be reminded that Paul is a very nice mix of blocking AND an ability to uncover.

[url=http://www.redskins.com/media-gallery/videos/Niles-Paul-2014-Highlights/dca3db2c-d4a3-44da-a1d5-34b283fb4761]Niles Paul 2014 Highlights[/url][/quote]

Still mad he fumbled that Texans play, but I think Paul will be a solid #2, but I think Reed is going to be special, last year he was the best tight end not named Rob Gronkowski

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

[quote=That Guy;1141540]VD hasn't done much lately, it's on him to prove he deserves to play.[/quote]

I don't think the Skins want to go balls deep with VD.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

[quote=Chico23231;1141566]I don't think the Skins want to go balls deep with VD.[/quote]

[IMG]http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/trollpasta/images/a/a9/I-see-what-you-did-there.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/480?cb=20121105211921[/IMG]

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

[quote=MTK;1141539]Reed is crazy talented and the clear #1, staying healthy was always his Achilles heal. When healthy he's clearly head and shoulders above Paul.

I like Paul's chances to stay ahead of VD on the depth chart though.[/quote]

Reed is the best receiving TE we have, but is not a good run blocker. Reed does have a weakness in his game. Paul is a better blocker, is much more physical than Reed. Before his season ending injury Paul was becoming a very good receiver as well. It will interesting to see if Paul can pick up where was before injury. Can Reed stay healthy? History says no. Just saying. VD pick up is insurance but it also addresses the need to improve our run blocking at the TE position. Our run game suffered last year and fixing it is high on the agenda.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

[quote=Schneed10;1141562]I definitely think some of you guys here have short memories. I think you're vastly underrating his ability to uncover. Reed took great strides forward this past season, but you need to be reminded that Paul is a very nice mix of blocking AND an ability to uncover.

[url=http://www.redskins.com/media-gallery/videos/Niles-Paul-2014-Highlights/dca3db2c-d4a3-44da-a1d5-34b283fb4761]Niles Paul 2014 Highlights[/url][/quote]

You are exactly right. Niles Paul before his injury was turning into a great double threat TE - receiver and run blocker. We need more complete TE's that can do both.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

[quote=Defensewins;1141572]You are exactly right. Niles Paul before his injury was turning into a great double threat TE - receiver and run blocker. We need more complete TE's that can do both.[/quote]

Used properly Jordan Reed is a transcendent talent, perhaps the best route runner among tight ends in the NFL. Let's not short change what we witnessed last season. Niles is a more complete player perhaps, but not among the tight end elite.

Look at it this way, let's say both were free agents this spring. Who would have been snapped up first, and have gotten the much better contract? See what I mean?

As I said earlier, having both is a very nice problem to have...

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

[quote=Schneed10;1141562]I definitely think some of you guys here have short memories. I think you're vastly underrating his ability to uncover. Reed took great strides forward this past season, but you need to be reminded that Paul is a very nice mix of blocking AND an ability to uncover.

[url=http://www.redskins.com/media-gallery/videos/Niles-Paul-2014-Highlights/dca3db2c-d4a3-44da-a1d5-34b283fb4761]Niles Paul 2014 Highlights[/url][/quote]

jordan reed: 55 yd/gm in 2013, 42 yd/gm in 2014, 68 yd/gm in 2015
niles paul: 9.5 yd/gm in 2012, 3.4 yd/gm in 2013, 32 yd/gm in 2014

not sure how jordan isn't the obvious #1. blocking is nice, and i'm sure paul's stat will also improve with cousins too, but reed makes plays that most TEs don't, and it's not like last year was the first time he looked good, it's just the first time he stayed healthy.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

Are we really discussing Reed v Paul?

Paul has been decent and appeared to be geared up for a breakout season last year per coaches and him before injury but ...

Reed is a matchup nightmare that dictates coverage like only a handful of receiving threats in the entire league can. I dont see it as a Reed v Paul thing. Also, I think listing Paul as the starter week 1 last year was coaching motivation for Reed.

it seemed Reed played through some pain last year which was nice to see. I hope he continues that trend. Scares me that he is only 1 concussion away ...

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

Lulz at the current discussion. Reed is a FUCKING MONSTER. PERIOD. I like Niles alot, i think both on the field at the same time and rotatijg in and out will be aqesome for us. But theres not any comparison right now lol... i just hope and pray gruden is smarter than spurierr when running or passong with CERTAIN personell on the field lolllllll

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

[quote=That Guy;1141577]jordan reed: 55 yd/gm in 2013, 42 yd/gm in 2014, 68 yd/gm in 2015
niles paul: 9.5 yd/gm in 2012, 3.4 yd/gm in 2013, 32 yd/gm in 2014

not sure how jordan isn't the obvious #1. blocking is nice, and i'm sure paul's stat will also improve with cousins too, but reed makes plays that most TEs don't, and it's not like last year was the first time he looked good, it's just the first time he stayed healthy.[/quote]

This only confirms what I've know all along. I'm the smartest motherfucker here.

Comparing Paul's stats from 2012 and 2013 isn't even relevant. In 2014 looking at total yards per game is even stupid because Reed started ahead of him for all but 4 games. But those 4? 4 catches for 86 yards. 8 catches for 99 yards and a TD. 6 catches for 68 yards. 4 catches for 60 yards.

That's well over a 1000 yard pace.

Listen, I'm not saying that after last season Reed doesn't deserve to be considered our #1 tight end. But Paul really came on in 2014 in subbing for Reed. His blocking is stronger, obv. So if I'm the coach, and Paul is healthy? I probably use Paul before Reed on most 1st and 10s. Now, 2nd and 7? 3rd and 5? I'd use Reed over Paul, if they're not both on the field at the same time. So Reed would end up getting more snaps than Paul for coach Schneed, but Paul would probably start simply because the game starts on a running down - 1st and 10. They're 1 and 1A.

I know the Redskins better than all y'all chumps and this proves it. Vernon Davis won't even sniff either of their jocks.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

PS sticky that post because I can't wait to throw it back in your faces when Niles is right on Reed's heels this year for snaps.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

[quote=Schneed10;1141584]This only confirms what I've know all along. I'm the smartest motherfucker here.

I know the Redskins better than all y'all chumps and this proves it. Vernon Davis won't even sniff either of their jocks.[/quote]

[IMG]http://www.striperkiller.com/uploads/5/5/1/3/55137563/6920140_orig.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

[quote=Schneed10;1141584]This only confirms what I've know all along. I'm the smartest motherfucker here.
.[/quote]

keep telling yourself that. let's extrapolate some other numbers from 4 games and randomly declare that's proof without considering reversion to mean and completely dismiss anything that doesn't fit our argument, like an entire year where both players played in the same system, because reasons!

btw, paul had 8 game starts, and most of them were 1 catch for 7 yard affairs. 2 of his games without reed ended up with 17 yards combined, which plunges his projected total down below 900 yards if you're only counting games reed didn't play (you can throw in his 17 yards from the TB game too if you want).

i'm not saying he's bad, and obviously kirk is going to help him, but you're not pulling reed for him. if you're managing people and you want to resign reed, pulling him on every 1st and 10 and denying him starts is a great way to make sure that doesn't happen.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

[quote=That Guy;1141590]keep telling yourself that. let's extrapolate some other numbers from 4 games and randomly declare that's proof without considering reversion to mean and completely dismiss anything that doesn't fit our argument, like an entire year where both players played in the same system, because reasons!

btw, paul had 8 game starts, and most of them were 1 catch for 7 yard affairs. 2 of his games without reed ended up with 17 yards combined, which plunges his projected total down below 900 yards if you're only counting games reed didn't play (you can throw in his 17 yards from the TB game too if you want).

i'm not saying he's bad, and obviously kirk is going to help him, but you're not pulling reed for him. if you're managing people and you want to resign reed, pulling him on every 1st and 10 and denying him starts is a great way to make sure that doesn't happen.[/quote]

Why would you look at Paul's receiving production in games where Reed played? The point is to illustrate that when Paul is given the role of being the primary receiving TE, he produces. Of course when Reed plays he is going to get first crack at the receiving targets, I've acknowledged all along that he's a better option in that regard. When Reed played in those games, Niles was given more of the in-line blocking responsibility, which speaks to why he didn't end up with huge receiving games. But that doesn't mean he can't do it, look at that four game production. And you're going to tell me after watching those games that that level of receiving production isn't sustainable? Why, because reversion to the mean, basically the statistical version of 'well I don't know he'll come back to Earth but I know he's never done this before, soo...'. Reversion to the mean works well when you're talking about a 30 year old first baseman whose track record is long established hitting .400 on balls put into play, but it means exactly jack squat when you're talking about a breakout player like Paul. Turn on the tape, what's not sustainable? The separating speed? The route running? The nose for the soft spot in the zone?

Get out of here with this reversion to the mean nonsense.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

As for the managing people point, Reed will not have a problem with not being on the field on the opening play. Players don't care about that. He will care about snaps, targets, receptions, and especially those of the red zone variety.

He'll get his 1000+ yards WHEN Jay plays Paul on most running downs.

Eat a bag of smashed assholes and bow to my superiority.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

[quote=Schneed10;1141593]As for the managing people point, Reed will not have a problem with not being on the field on the opening play. Players don't care about that. He will care about snaps, targets, receptions, and especially those of the red zone variety.

He'll get his 1000+ yards WHEN Jay plays Paul on most running downs.

Eat a bag of smashed assholes and bow to my superiority.[/quote]


Not so fast oh great Schneed person.

Forget about all the fancy stats. Forget about who you (or Jay Gruden) like better. Just tell me this: Who do you think would be picked up first by another team if both were on the market as free agents.

See what I mean? It's not so hard, Reed>>>>>Paul. Not even close.

And I happen to like Niles Paul a lot. Good football player.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

Reggie Nelson reportedly headed to Oakland

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

Reed all day over Paul.

No contest.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

[quote=SCRedskinsFan;1141595]Not so fast oh great Schneed person.

Forget about all the fancy stats. Forget about who you (or Jay Gruden) like better. Just tell me this: Who do you think would be picked up first by another team if both were on the market as free agents.

See what I mean? It's not so hard, Reed>>>>>Paul. Not even close.

And I happen to like Niles Paul a lot. Good football player.[/quote]

Yeah because you pay for production in the free agent market. Smart organizations build through the draft because they're looking for CAPABILITY, and when they get a good coach who recognizes the capability, they get production by putting the player in position to succeed.

What I'm saying isn't that Jordan Reed isn't a boss, I'm saying Niles is one too. Possibly almost as much of one. I'm glad we got Davis, because this means we are planning lots of multiple TE sets, because Jay knows how good Paul is. He's not going to take him off the field much. Davis will get in line blocking responsibility, Reed will be the dominant receiving threat and our red zone moneymaker, and Paul will be the jack of all trades. He'll come out of the h-back, he'll motion out, he'll block down, all of it.

When you have a guy that can both run AND block like Niles, it allows you to disguise the play call. If you put Reed in the slot you know what's going to happen. Defense probably still can't stop it, but Niles will still get on the field because his skill set is such that we won't tip off the defense.

Re: Redskins Free Agency 2016
 

I know Reed gets all the glory because of his fantasy stats. Sick route runner, huge red zone threat, all of that. But you guys have to remember the flip side. Our running game was garbage last year. For many reasons, not just because of TE. But the absence of Paul and Paulsen really hurt, and exposed Reed as an unacceptable run blocker.

He's too valuable to come off the field, but we should never give him blocking responsibility unless we can help it. That's why Paul is so crucial.