Re: The Haskins Threat
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1238287]Graded where and 86 out of what? On a 100% scale an 86 is a B+, are you kidding me? If that is correct I must have watched a different game and got the wrong box score off of ESPN. 114 net yards passing and sacked 5 times with 25 pass attempts, that wouldn't look good on a 1963 NFL box score. Even worse the Redskins had a major running game going, that helps the QB immensely. I haven't given up on Haskins till he has time to fix all the glaring technical flaws, but I do not understand the major optimism from some fans.[/quote]

Look up the box score from Alex Smith last year versus the Panthers...it’s comparable to Haskins. Carolina defense has been turning qb over and sacking them all season.

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

[quote=Chico23231;1238288]Yeah...like Sheehan said today, this talk of him not ready and sitting was utter horseshit. Put the passing aside, he has been able to do all the “game management” items quite well: running the huddle, calling plays, his demeanor on the field, plays with urgency, competitive and doesn’t seem overwhelmed. He’s not getting delay of game penalties, unnecessary timeouts, etc.

Speaking of grades, our interior Oline is grading pretty damn high: Roullier is like up to 6 highest rated center, schreff is 5 best guard and Flowers is up to 25th highest rated guard. All together, this group is playing pretty damn well.[/quote]

Too bad our interior linemen playing well is going to be wasted on this season. I'd love to keep that core together for the next several years, def. need to replace Trent and possibly Moses too but Flowers/Roullier/Scherff is good to go. If we don't resign Scherff we're just creating more problems to solve.

We're already looking at replacing Trent, that should be priority A. Priority B should be replacing our top 2 TE's and possibly Sprinkle too if options are there. I'd like to bring in one experienced WR just to help Haskins too, we can keep McLaurin and Harmon but dump Richardson and Quinn. I'm iffy on Moses, I'd like to replace him but with all the other needs we have not sure if it's viable. If Geron Christian steps up it could really make that decision easier. And if Scherff walks it's one more hole to fill, I'm really hoping he just wants to stay here although I wouldn't blame him if he wanted out.

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1238287]Graded where and 86 out of what? On a 100% scale an 86 is a B+, are you kidding me? If that is correct I must have watched a different game and got the wrong box score off of ESPN. 114 net yards passing and sacked 5 times with 25 pass attempts, that wouldn't look good on a 1963 NFL box score. Even worse the Redskins had a major running game going, that helps the QB immensely. I haven't given up on Haskins till he has time to fix all the glaring technical flaws, but I do not understand the major optimism from some fans.[/quote]

You have to consider the drops his guys had, Terry had 2 right in his hands, same for Sprinkle, so you cant look at the completion % . Every pass is graded so it's not just some made up numbers. Yes he has to get better but overall game by game he's improved

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

[quote=Chico23231;1238288]Yeah...like Sheehan said today, this talk of him not ready and sitting was utter horseshit. Put the passing aside, he has been able to do all the “game management” items quite well: running the huddle, calling plays, his demeanor on the field, plays with urgency, competitive and doesn’t seem overwhelmed. He’s not getting delay of game penalties, unnecessary timeouts, etc.

[B]Speaking of grades, our interior Oline is grading pretty damn high: Roullier is like up to 6 highest rated center, schreff is 5 best guard and Flowers is up to 25th highest rated guard. All together, this group is playing pretty damn well.[/B][/quote]

I'll be first to admit I was way off and wrong on Flowers and Penn

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

[QUOTE=Buffalo Bob;1238287]Graded where and 86 out of what? On a 100% scale an 86 is a B+, are you kidding me? If that is correct I must have watched a different game and got the wrong box score off of ESPN. 114 net yards passing and sacked 5 times with 25 pass attempts, that wouldn't look good on a 1963 NFL box score. Even worse the Redskins had a major running game going, that helps the QB immensely. I haven't given up on Haskins till he has time to fix all the glaring technical flaws, but I do not understand the major optimism from some fans.[/QUOTE]



Agreed. He is barely being used, and still making more mistakes than most. But yeah his team is meh. Staff is shit. So ill wait until the end of next year provided he is healthy to see if he is the guy. He certainly looks a little better than he did but he looked like he never played quarterback in his life before so....

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

Haskins has a long way to go and it won't be fair to judge him until next season:

All rookie WR group - McLaurin, Steve Sims and Harmon. Excellent draft of WR but they still have rookie mistakes.

O'Connell playcalling. The Redskins until yesterday had one of the worst offenses in the NFL. Part of that was Gruden's playcalling. Why do we always have to run on first down? I see the offensive playcalling improving as the season progresses. I hope O'Connell comes back next year because I think he has real potential. But he's still green and gets into a predictive rut sometimes.

Crap TE. Our best TE's, who the team spent $16 mill are out for the season and probably forever. We need either to draft high for a TE or pick up one of the premium TE in FA. Drop Reed and Davis in offseason. Time to move on.

OL - the OL is far better at run-blocking than pass protection. Need new blood in the draft. Still unsure if Scherff is worth a re-signing. He's coming back very late after an absolutely terrible first half of the season. Moses is gone also.

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1238294]I'll be first to admit I was way off and wrong on Flowers and Penn[/quote]

might be nice to sign both of them to extensions. Penn looks like he has another year or two left.

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1238299]might be nice to sign both of them to extensions. Penn looks like he has another year or two left.[/quote]

I'm not sure Trent will be gone if Bruce leaves, I think its possible he returns.. If not then yeah I agree, sign Penn for another yr and draft a LT in the later rds

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1238300]I'm not sure Trent will be gone if Bruce leaves, I think its possible he returns.. If not then yeah I agree, sign Penn for another yr and draft a LT in the later rds[/quote]

Trent's story is full of lies - lies which he told to disparage the team and make the organization look bad. If Trents beef were with Bruce and Bruce alone, he really screwed up by attacking the entire organization and medical staff. I cant imagine the team wanting him back. I sure as hell don't. Bruce needs to be fired and the new GMs first action should be to trade Trent. If we really want to change the culture here, we need to get rid of guys like Trent. There's no denying Trent was an excellent leader here for many years, but he's burned his bridges.

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

[quote=mooby;1238291]Too bad our interior linemen playing well is going to be wasted on this season. I'd love to keep that core together for the next several years, def. need to replace Trent and possibly Moses too but Flowers/Roullier/Scherff is good to go. If we don't resign Scherff we're just creating more problems to solve.[/quote]

True, but these guys are relatively young, so they could get better. I say lock them all up and I don’t think Roullier and Flowers will be much to extend. I don’t think replacing Moses is viable due to his contract, he is here next year.

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

Haskins and our offense would be more efficient with Guice starting instead of AP, they wouldn’t have the lethargic start they always have. O’Connell has done a fine job despite being having Callahan make the calls on who to start.

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

This may be the first game where Haskins actually looked like a NFL QB. He missed some things but also had some drops. I liked what I saw and hopefully he keeps an upward trend going. I want to see a breakout game from him before the season ends.

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

[quote=Chico23231;1238303]True, but these guys are relatively young, so they could get better. I say lock them all up and I don’t think Roullier and Flowers will be much to extend. I don’t think replacing Moses is viable due to his contract, he is here next year.[/quote]

According to over the cap we would save nearly $5 million by cutting Moses next year.... question is how much his replacement will cost

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

[quote=EdmundDorf;1238308]According to over the cap we would save nearly $5 million by cutting Moses next year.... question is how much his replacement will cost[/quote]

Moses stinks, draft a LT and RT, trade him for a sandwich

Re: The Haskins Thread
 

Haskins is taking baby steps each week, he’s definitely showing progress even if it’s slow but sure.


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Re: The Haskins Threat
 

[quote=EdmundDorf;1238308]According to over the cap we would save nearly $5 million by cutting Moses next year.... question is how much his replacement will cost[/quote]

You’re right, I think I was looking at the Paul Richardson contract. Thanks

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

[quote=Chico23231;1238314]You’re right, I think I was looking at the Paul Richardson contract. Thanks[/quote]

Say it ain't so. Idk who to blame for that contract but that's up there with Norman for worst FA signing of the last few years.

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

[quote=mooby;1238316]Say it ain't so. Idk who to blame for that contract but that's up there with Norman for worst FA signing of the last few years.[/quote]

Yeah...p rich is here another year unless we post June cut him, which doesn’t happen much.

Replacing a left tackle is tough, but replacing both bookends would be a bit much and biting off more than this front office could handle. I’d keep Moses and focus on trying to solve left tackle. Maybe re up Penn as a back up LT, Moses RT with Geron Christian as Moses back up. Christian could be in line for more playing time if Moses is out with this injury. I’d like to draft Left Tackle but if Chase Young is there u draft him over the guy from Georgia.

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

P rich is way worse than Normans deal, in fact he's as bad damn near as haynesworth

Re: The Haskins Thread
 

Dump Richardson-he’s done nothing, total waste.
Dump Norman, he’s faded every year and is totally worthless.
Trent Williams asked to be traded before the season. Other high profile players in other teams asked for the same thing. ONLY THE REDSKINS, only Bruce Allen tried to keep their disgruntled player (justified or not), by trying to force him back on the team or punishing him for daring to leave this team. Other teams would have traded highly for him. Only Bruce Allen was arrogant enough to ignore their inquiries. The next GM needs to get the most from a trade for him. Move on.
Tough call on Kerrigan. He is a great veteran and before this season, the best and most consistent player on the defense. Whether due to Greg Manusky’s bad coaching or the effects of Father Time, he has faltered this season. Fortunately, the team picked up a good replacement-Orchard. We will get a good look at him and see if he is as good as his excellent first game. The new GM will make this hard decision of a trade or to keep him one more season. He has been an outstanding Redskin on some really crappy teams.
The team needs to dump almost all their FA’s except for Collins. That includes McCoy.



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Re: The Haskins Thread
 

[quote=Warthog;1238322]Dump Richardson-he’s done nothing, total waste.
Dump Norman, he’s faded every year and is totally worthless.
Trent Williams asked to be traded before the season. Other high profile players in other teams asked for the same thing. ONLY THE REDSKINS, only Bruce Allen tried to keep their disgruntled player (justified or not), by trying to force him back on the team or punishing him for daring to leave this team. Other teams would have traded highly for him. Only Bruce Allen was arrogant enough to ignore their inquiries. The next GM needs to get the most from a trade for him. Move on.
[B]Tough call on Kerrigan[/B]. He is a great veteran and before this season, the best and most consistent player on the defense. Whether due to Greg Manusky’s bad coaching or the effects of Father Time, he has faltered this season. Fortunately, the team picked up a good replacement-Orchard. We will get a good look at him and see if he is as good as his excellent first game. The new GM will make this hard decision of a trade or to keep him one more season. He has been an outstanding Redskin on some really crappy teams.
The team needs to dump almost all their FA’s except for Collins. That includes McCoy.



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It’s really not hard with Kerrigan:

1. Zero dead cap or owned money after this season. When cut, 11.5 salary becomes available for the skins to use.
2. Aging vet who clearly lost a step.
3. Sweat future spot is Kerrigan side where he broke out last week.

The 4 guys we need to cut from the team this offseason: Norman, Trent (trade), Reed and Kerrigan. 44 million becomes available in cap relief with 6 million in dead cap.

Re: The Haskins Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1238328]It’s really not hard with Kerrigan:

1. Zero dead cap or owned money after this season. When cut, 11.5 salary becomes available for the skins to use.
2. Aging vet who clearly lost a step.
3. Sweat future spot is Kerrigan side where he broke out last week.

The 4 guys we need to cut from the team this offseason: Norman, Trent (trade), Reed and Kerrigan. 44 million becomes available in cap relief with 6 million in dead cap.[/quote]

Yep, and lets be honest here its not like RK has ever had a huge impact on the team.. I like the guy and hes tough as nails but I can't recall a single game changing sack he had.. If there has been its few and far between

Re: The Haskins Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1238328]It’s really not hard with Kerrigan:

1. Zero dead cap or owned money after this season. When cut, 11.5 salary becomes available for the skins to use.
2. Aging vet who clearly lost a step.
3. Sweat future spot is Kerrigan side where he broke out last week.

The 4 guys we need to cut from the team this offseason: Norman, Trent (trade), Reed and Kerrigan. 44 million becomes available in cap relief with 6 million in dead cap.[/quote]

Add Vernon Davis to that list. Honestly I will be surprised if him and Reed don't retire. Like there's literally nothing to gain at that point besides accelerating CTE to ruin the rest of your life.

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

"Just being in the huddle, I feel like he's taken more control," Thompson said on Haskins. "I feel like he's more calm out there. Everybody knows the story, he'd go out there and have a wristband [of the plays] and things like that. He's put more [pressure] on himself to not even want to use the wristband. He's just trying to learn everything."

"He was out there being able to flip protections to be able to protect himself. That's what I love to see," Thompson said. "I remember one time I was calling out the protection, I was saying it out loud. I was saying 'We need to flip this protection.' We had what we call a dummy count, and he walked up, switched the protection and put us in the right position for him to be able to get all six guys blocked up. That's the growth I've been seeing."

Re: The Haskins Thread
 

[quote=mooby;1238340]Add Vernon Davis to that list. Honestly I will be surprised if him and Reed don't retire. Like there's literally nothing to gain at that point besides accelerating CTE to ruin the rest of your life.[/quote]

Vernon Davis and chris Thompson are last year of deal. That’s 9 more million combined off the books.

We these cuts and contracts ending, I’m extending schreff, flowers, roullier, and Dunbar first. I’m also gonna put some money in escrow incase reuben foster balls out in our defense. Build a young core from inside the team, reward performance.

Re: The Haskins Thread
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1238342]Vernon Davis and chris Thompson are last year of deal. That’s 9 more million combined off the books.



We these cuts and contracts ending, I’m extending schreff, flowers, roullier, and Dunbar first. I’m also gonna put some money in escrow incase reuben foster balls out in our defense. Build a young core from inside the team, reward performance.[/QUOTE]



It is mind numbing how obvious the necessary steps are, and how worried i am that Bruce dipshit Allen can grasp it.

Re: The Haskins Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1238342]Vernon Davis and chris Thompson are last year of deal. That’s 9 more million combined off the books.

We these cuts and contracts ending, I’m extending schreff, flowers, roullier, and Dunbar first. I’m also gonna put some money in escrow incase reuben foster balls out in our defense. Build a young core from inside the team, reward performance.[/quote]

I agree with this, Allen’s contract could be coming up soon to. I would sign Thompson to an affordable contract, if he agrees due to his missed time. Guice, Love, Thompson next year sounds really good.

Re: The Haskins Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1238343]It is mind numbing how obvious the necessary steps are, and how worried i am that Bruce dipshit Allen can grasp it.[/quote]

Too me it’s obvious but there is also a caveat where, if a coach comes in and says “I want more zone blocking and roullier or flowers skills sets don’t match the scheme. I need someone else there.” So this would be great bc the head coach and front office are working together to team build.

Again this makes sense but this is the worst front office in the league folks

Re: The Haskins Thread
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1238345]Too me it’s obvious but there is also a caveat where, if a coach comes in and says “I want more zone blocking and roullier or flowers skills sets don’t match the scheme. I need someone else there.” So this would be great bc the head coach and front office are working together to team build.



Again this makes sense but this is the worst front office in the league folks[/QUOTE]



Certainly a coach could have a scheme some don’t fit which might mean they move on from someone we deem a keeper but there is a small plethora of players that must go. Those aging, under producing high contract players. If BA fucks that up and doesn’t free up all that space and stick to the youth movement than we are right back to being a dumpster fire with no end in sight because yeah it is the worst FO in fucking football.

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

Haskins was 6-12 for 93 yards on passes longer than 10 yards in the air sunday, had 3 drops so would have been 9-12

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1238373]Haskins was 6-12 for 93 yards on passes longer than 10 yards in the air sunday, had 3 drops so would have been 9-12[/quote]

If you are going to credit him with projected completions from drops you have to credit him for incompletions on all the sacks he takes from holding the ball too long where most quarterbacks would have thrown the ball away.

If he started from day one and threw the same amount of passes he would almost equal David Carr's record for taking the most sacks.

Re: The Haskins Thread
 

The dumping or trading of almost all the aging FA is pretty obvious. I think Reed and Davis will both retire. Cleaning out the FA will give the new GM and HC a lot of cap money to work with. It also forces the Redskins into a rebuilding mode, which Bruce Allen has avoided like the plague.

It all depends on what Snyder does at the end of the season. He could put the Redskins on the right path by firing Bruce Allen and Callahan at the end of the season AND hiring an NFL-savvy GM under the condition that he gives him full power to turn the team around.

The team has many favorable issues:

1. Fan base has hit absolute rock bottom and 20-years of losing football. Easy to build on that and recover.

2. Pretty easy path to clean all the deadwood FA. Reed, Davis, Richardson, Trent Williams (high value trade), Moses, Norman, Kerrigan. Decision point on Scherff. He was a Pro Bowl baller in his first seasons but this this year he’s been horrible. I can’t tell if it’s partly due to Moses playing so poorly or he’s just having a bad year. Way too many penalties.

3. Good base of rookie players. With good coaching this would be at least an average team. With another year of good drafting will make this team better. Spending some cap money on a top TE would make for a very good receiver group. Draft picks for OL.

This team could turn around if Snyder takes the right steps and acknowledges past mistakes. Keeping BA in any capacity will kill the GM and/or HC hunt.




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Re: The Haskins Threat
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1238374]If you are going to credit him with projected completions from drops you have to credit him for incompletions on all the sacks he takes from holding the ball too long where most quarterbacks would have thrown the ball away.

If he started from day one and threw the same amount of passes he would almost equal David Carr's record for taking the most sacks.[/quote]

that is true i was just throwing that out there

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

Yeah as really so far, Haskins has delivered in the games he has been in and really growing in his role.

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

For the 2020 draft there should be at least 20 OT's with talent available. I say go for 2 of them. [url]https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2020-nfl-draft-ot-tristian-wirfs-isnt-getting-enough-attention/[/url]

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1238426]For the 2020 draft there should be at least 20 OT's with talent available. I say go for 2 of them. [url]https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2020-nfl-draft-ot-tristian-wirfs-isnt-getting-enough-attention/[/url][/quote]

Yup, I’ve been reading the same thing, the crop of tackles is pretty good this year. If we could land chase young in the first and trade TW at the very least for a second...that second rounder could still fetch a quality tackle.

Then again, if we can’t land chase young and the decision is no QB in the first, I’m for taking the Georgia kid at Tackle. From his tape this year, he’s been easily the best tackle in the country..well that’s what I’ve read.

In the same vein of quality of position in the upcoming draft...the tight end quality is garbage. Reading no real first or even high second round picks...most grading 3rd to fourth rounds

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

[quote=Chico23231;1238427]Yup, I’ve been reading the same thing, the crop of tackles is pretty good this year. If we could land chase young in the first and trade TW at the very least for a second...that second rounder could still fetch a quality tackle.

Then again, if we can’t land chase young and the decision is no QB in the first, I’m for taking the Georgia kid at Tackle. From his tape this year, he’s been easily the best tackle in the country..well that’s what I’ve read.

In the same vein of quality of position in the upcoming draft...the tight end quality is garbage. Reading no real first or even high second round picks...most grading 3rd to fourth rounds[/quote]

I’m looking at holes that need to be fixed, OT, TE, S, CB, ILB, OLB. I want to move on from fucking Moses and TW, this would help DH.

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

If the skins pick at 4 or 5 , and Jerry Jeudy is available you have to consider him

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

[quote=Chico23231;1238427]Yup, I’ve been reading the same thing, the crop of tackles is pretty good this year. If we could land chase young in the first and trade TW at the very least for a second...that second rounder could still fetch a quality tackle.

Then again, if we can’t land chase young and the decision is no QB in the first, I’m for taking the Georgia kid at Tackle. From his tape this year, he’s been easily the best tackle in the country..well that’s what I’ve read.

[B]In the same vein of quality of position in the upcoming draft...the tight end quality is garbage. Reading no real first or even high second round picks...most grading 3rd to fourth rounds[/B][/quote]

Hopefully they'll be some good TEs in free agency available that they will hopefully target. This is a position that seems to fading away though, because the college game is not using them...much like fullbacks.

Re: The Haskins Threat
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1238430]If the skins pick at 4 or 5 , and Jerry Jeudy is available you have to consider him[/quote]

Trade down, get more picks, we are fine at WR and could pick one in a later round. Our primary concern on offense is the Oline and TE period.