Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

Heineke's arm looks much worse in person than on TV.. The TD Pass to Terry vs GB, It was a miracle he came down with that LOL. I Like the dude but def the weakest arm in the league

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=MTK;1313600]No question Wentz is going to stretch the field.[/quote]

He was in the top 10 of QBs this season 20 plus yards in the air.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

We won 7 games last year with a tough schedule and TH under center … what throws does Taylor make that Carson can’t ?
So if Wentz comes in adds the threat to go deep and does no more than Taylor in the short pass game that should get us more wins IF the rest of team Defense shows up .. Wentz is a upgrade for sure !!

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

Keim wrote a [URL="https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33537678/how-joe-gibbs-film-study-analytics-led-commanders-carson-wentz"]nice article[/URL] on the team's QB search progress. I originally wasn't happy with the move, but the more I read details about Wentz and how the team tried to find a QB, the more I feel like the team made the best move given the limited options.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=GridIron26;1313659]Keim wrote a [URL="https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33537678/how-joe-gibbs-film-study-analytics-led-commanders-carson-wentz"]nice article[/URL] on the team's QB search progress. I originally wasn't happy with the move, but the more I read details about Wentz and how the team tried to find a QB, the more I feel like the team made the best move given the limited options.[/quote]

Nice idea to sit down with Gibbs at the start, just Ron and Joe. I am sure Gibbs has kept up to some degree with the evolution of QBs and must have some great insights into finding QBs and what to look for

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[QUOTE=GridIron26;1313659]Keim wrote a [URL="https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33537678/how-joe-gibbs-film-study-analytics-led-commanders-carson-wentz"]nice article[/URL] on the team's QB search progress. I originally wasn't happy with the move, but the more I read details about Wentz and how the team tried to find a QB, the more I feel like the team made the best move given the limited options.[/QUOTE]Looking at where a team like the Panthers stand at right now makes me thankful the team made this move.

They're basically rolling with Darnold and probably, and will need to pay up for a QB in the draft.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=rocnrik;1313629]We won 7 games last year with a tough schedule and TH under center … what throws does Taylor make that Carson can’t ?
So if Wentz comes in adds the threat to go deep and does no more than Taylor in the short pass game that should get us more wins IF the rest of team Defense shows up .. Wentz is a upgrade for sure !![/quote]

This team could very easily win 7 games w/ Wentz.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1313708]This team could very easily win 7 games w/ Wentz.[/quote]

It's all on him, if he can play like he did last year then I'll say we will be in the NFCE Mix.

If TH had 27 tds and 7ints we would have been in the playoffs.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

Wentz does not have to play lights out for us to win 10 games .. just take what’s there and cut down on the turnovers .. the deep threat should open up the underneath game …

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=rocnrik;1313714]Wentz does not have to play lights out for us to win 10 games .. just take what’s there and cut down on the turnovers .. the deep threat should open up the underneath game …[/quote]

I'd clarify that; cut down on the fumbles. In only 2 years in 6 his INT's exceeded 7 (weirdly 7 in all 4 years), and one of those was his rookie season (though yeah, his worst years were the only 2 full seasons...). Fumbles though, he's had almost half as many of those as TD's! He's only lost 28 of 66, but that's still averaging 11 fumbles a season (4.66 lost per). Needs to improve.

Statistically he comes in between Goff and Prescott, from the same draft. If he can get closer to Prescott in performance and kill the fumbles, I agree we could be challenging for the East quite easily.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

Cowherd then asked if you didn’t know the quarterback’s name and I told you what he did last year, “27 touchdowns, 7 interceptions 95 passer rating, 210 passing yards a game, winning record, 6-5, 240, can move and has an arm. I would take that.”

“Is he reckless? Absolutely. No one questions this. He is too reckless, but I would take him.”


“Carson Wentz lost to the Jags, and Jim Irsay (Colts owner) freaked out.” This is a big win for Washington! A major upgrade over Taylor Heinicke, a major upgrade over Ryan Fitzpatrick.”

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

So many people want to make everything black or white. A guy either sucks or is great.

Reality is Wentz is in the 'fine', 'OK', or 'decent' range.

And the point is, 'fine' is a massive upgrade over what we've had at QB. That's how you end up showing up so well on the 'offseason improvement index' thing from PFF.

He will make plus plays that top QBs can make. He'll also make boneheaded ones that the top QBs will avoid more often. It adds up to a lot of improvement for us. We should be in the playoff conversation with Wentz just like the Colts were last year. In a weaker NFC and with a soft schedule like we have, 10 wins is certainly in the conversation.

There's nothing wrong with using 'fine' as a stepping stone to great. I'll take what we can get now, hopefully competent QB play is enough to build momentum for the rebuild. As everyone here has already noted, nothing about the Wentz contract prevents us from trying to find a great one in future seasons.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=Schneed10;1313847]So many people want to make everything black or white. A guy either sucks or is great.

Reality is Wentz is in the 'fine', 'OK', or 'decent' range.

And the point is, 'fine' is a massive upgrade over what we've had at QB. That's how you end up showing up so well on the 'offseason improvement index' thing from PFF.

He will make plus plays that top QBs can make. He'll also make boneheaded ones that the top QBs will avoid more often. It adds up to a lot of improvement for us. We should be in the playoff conversation with Wentz just like the Colts were last year. In a weaker NFC and with a soft schedule like we have, 10 wins is certainly in the conversation.

There's nothing wrong with using 'fine' as a stepping stone to great. I'll take what we can get now, hopefully competent QB play is enough to build momentum for the rebuild. As everyone here has already noted, nothing about the Wentz contract prevents us from trying to find a great one in future seasons.[/quote]

Agree with this, I'd even say 11-12 wins is possible if the defense steps their shit up this year...

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1313848]Agree with this, I'd even say 11-12 wins is possible if the defense steps their shit up this year...[/quote]

I think the defense will be better this year. The secondary played much better toward ending of the season, and that was without Young and Sweat. The biggest question mark for me is did Young and Sweat realize how important it is for them to stick to their assignments after watching backups playing better than they did.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

I do feel like they should have a back up plan in place if this doesn't work. That 2nd round pick I feel should be a QB. I give this Wentz deal a 50/50 chance of hitting.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

I wouldn't bother with a QB until the later rounds or an undrafted guy. Too many holes to fill right now to use a high round pick on a 3rd string QB.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

yeah we are fine at QB, Wentz is better than anyone we would find in the later rounds. Give him 2 full seasons and re-access

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=MTK;1313857]I wouldn't bother with a QB until the later rounds or an undrafted guy. Too many holes to fill right now to use a high round pick on a 3rd string QB.[/quote]

I think I'm with Matty. In rounds 1 and 2 I think we need pieces in important positions. This year's QB crop is nothing to write home about - I don't think I'd invest one of our 1st or 2nd rounders this year, unless Pickett or Willis fell to round 2 which just won't happen.

I'd consider a QB on day three but even then, not sure I'd force it. I'd look harder at next year's QB crop once I have a year's worth of information about Wentz paired with Scott Turner.

Heinicke is under contract with us this year and makes for, frankly, the ideal backup QB situation. QB can be addressed in 2023 if needed.

Use that 1st and 2nd rounder on a wideout and a MLB, or something like that. Guys that can help us now, help put Wentz in a better position to succeed. We can shoot our shot next year if he isn't the answer.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=MTK;1313857]I wouldn't bother with a QB until the later rounds or an undrafted guy. Too many holes to fill right now to use a high round pick on a 3rd string QB.[/quote]

Here is the problem w/ that. Let's say Wentz turns his knee again and is out for 8 weeks. You have a guy who plays on the edge and has an injury history. Or he goes back to 2020 Wentz. Then what? You are back to TH again for an extended period of time. Or you can possibly have let's say Sam Howell or Carson Strong.

Remember the 2012 draft? Shanahan nailed it and drafted two guys at QB cause he was not sold on the #1 guy. And the value was too good on Cousins.

I'd rather have possible quality depth at the most important position rather than fill a hole. I can fill holes in the second round of signings in free agency.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1313859]yeah we are fine at QB, Wentz is better than anyone we would find in the later rounds. Give him 2 full seasons and re-access[/quote]

True, but he may or may not be better than someone in the earlier rounds.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=Schneed10;1313870]I think I'm with Matty. In rounds 1 and 2 I think we need pieces in important positions. This year's QB crop is nothing to write home about - I don't think I'd invest one of our 1st or 2nd rounders this year, unless Pickett or Willis fell to round 2 which just won't happen.

I'd consider a QB on day three but even then, not sure I'd force it. I'd look harder at next year's QB crop once I have a year's worth of information about Wentz paired with Scott Turner.

Heinicke is under contract with us this year and makes for, frankly, the ideal backup QB situation. QB can be addressed in 2023 if needed.

Use that 1st and 2nd rounder on a wideout and a MLB, or something like that. Guys that can help us now, help put Wentz in a better position to succeed. We can shoot our shot next year if he isn't the answer.[/quote]

1st rounder I would agree. That would be off the table. Anything after that is fair game.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1313873]Here is the problem w/ that. Let's say Wentz turns his knee again and is out for 8 weeks. You have a guy who plays on the edge and has an injury history. Or he goes back to 2020 Wentz. Then what? You are back to TH again for an extended period of time. Or you can possibly have let's say Sam Howell or Carson Strong.

Remember the 2012 draft? Shanahan nailed it and drafted two guys at QB cause he was not sold on the #1 guy. And the value was too good on Cousins.

I'd rather have possible quality depth at the most important position rather than fill a hole. I can fill holes in the second round of signings in free agency.[/quote]

Well, TH is the #2, so if Wentz goes down it's going to be TH as the next man up over a rookie anyway.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

See Rex Grossman.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1313888]See Rex Grossman.[/QUOTE]


Why?

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=punch it in;1313898]Why?[/quote]

Because he is sexy.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

Ok here he is, what are we looking for? lol

[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/RexGrossmanRedskins.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1313888]See Rex Grossman.[/quote]

I'm trying so hard to understand this but I fear I'm just not that talented.

Are you trying to say that Rex Grossman was once a 3rd string QB and played an important role?

Or are you comparing Carson Wentz to John Beck?

Mom I need to stay home from school today, skinsfan69 gave me a headache.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=MTK;1313902]Ok here he is, what are we looking for? lol

[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/RexGrossmanRedskins.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

both are Caucasian.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[QUOTE=sdskinsfan2001;1313900]Because he is sexy.[/QUOTE]


[IMG]https://media2.giphy.com/media/3o85g4QnDjeDb7Z5kI/giphy.gif[/IMG]

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=Schneed10;1313903]I'm trying so hard to understand this but I fear I'm just not that talented.

Are you trying to say that Rex Grossman was once a 3rd string QB and played an important role?

Or are you comparing Carson Wentz to John Beck?

Mom I need to stay home from school today, skinsfan69 gave me a headache.[/quote]

Basically Ron and co need to have some forward thinking skills and make sure they have a back-up plan in case Wentz doesn't work out. They should plan on drafting a QB and have someone in the pipeline and hopefully that player can be the #2 and you have a vet like TH as the #3. I used the 2012 as an example where Rex was the #3 backing up two rookies. Obviously Wentz is not a rookie but he is new here.

As I have always said you need to be drafting Qb's. You can't count on Wentz being the long term solution.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1313934]Basically Ron and co need to have some forward thinking skills and make sure they have a back-up plan in case Wentz doesn't work out. They should plan on drafting a QB and have someone in the pipeline and hopefully that player can be the #2 and you have a vet like TH as the #3. I used the 2012 as an example where Rex was the #3 backing up two rookies. Obviously Wentz is not a rookie but he is new here.

As I have always said you need to be drafting Qb's. You can't count on Wentz being the long term solution.[/quote]

Thank you that makes sense and now I can stop googling how Rex Grossman makes mac & cheese because that was as likely to be your point than anything.

But all jokes aside I see your point and it's a valid one. Taking a swing at QB is a good idea until you're sure you have a superstar.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

Rex Grossman? Are we unleashing the dragon?

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1205437069/fuck_itAVY_400x400.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1313934]Basically Ron and co need to have some forward thinking skills and make sure they have a back-up plan in case Wentz doesn't work out. They should plan on drafting a QB and have someone in the pipeline and hopefully that player can be the #2 and you have a vet like TH as the #3. I used the 2012 as an example where Rex was the #3 backing up two rookies. Obviously Wentz is not a rookie but he is new here.

As I have always said you need to be drafting Qb's. You can't count on Wentz being the long term solution.[/QUOTE]


But Ron is getting to a point where he needs to be showing results on the field. Drafting a quarterback that probably will not see the field isn’t going to help Wentz or this team right now, and in turn that doesn’t help Ron.

Im not completely against taking say Willis at 11, or whatever and hoping he turns out to eventually be the guy, but it isn’t that simple for Ron and Co. Their clock is ticking. He acquired Wentz, now you have to put pieces around him. You start “forward thinking “ and draft a quarterback now and you might be shooting your own foot off.

Taylor Heineke is an adequate backup plan. If Im Ron and Co Im doing whatever I can to help Wentz win. That probably doesn’t include drafting a quarterback this year. Not when we still have a handful of holes to fill.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

I think it's also worth considering that RR could be gun shy taking a project QB high in the 1st round this year, after the Haskins debacle. I suspect had he not been allowed to shift Haskins on when he did, RR would likely have resigned. I'd say that makes him wary about taking a big risk with our rd1 pick, and probably rd2. Better to ride with Wentz for at least one year, knowing you can go after a need/BPA with our top picks and if it goes south and you're still around, pick up a better prospect in '23. Sinking a 1st or 2nd round pick into a suspect QB when you have a starter and capable back up on the roster doesn't make sense when you have other needs.

I'd certainly look at a 4th or 5th round QB pick if they were BPA, and definitely scour the UDFA pool for a diamond in the rough, but using high picks on a QB doesn't make sense now the need is not urgent.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

Ok, went through the infamous week 18 Colts @ Jags game.
Let me tell you right away, while I'm not going to sit here and say Wentz had an [I]amazing[/I] game, this narrative that [I]he[/I] choked the game and the Colts missed the PO because of him is a very lazy and inaccurate one.

Several turn overs on downs because for whatever reason the offense seemed to be unable to pick up short yardage throughout the whole game. Some drops. The defense making the Jags offense like the 2019 Chiefs. Questionnable play calling at times...
[I]The team choked this game.[/I] Badly. Carson made some really nice plays, a couple of ugly throws after the sack fumble (so maybe there is indeed somewhat of a mental weakness), leading to a really bad INT. Overall I'd say he had a [I]more than decent game[/I].

14 plays, in chronological order to give you a feel of his in game evolution (sometimes included both the endzone and sideline angles, sometimes just the most useful one). Had to divide in 2 posts.

First drive ended with this play followed by an run stopped on 4th and short. Weird/badly executed pick play, that's a catch Doyle should make IMO
[IMG]https://media0.giphy.com/media/A5RGWK7gfwQXUbzQRF/giphy.gif?cid=790b7611d9b88e8fa014b6b57def8f1dcdcb481ce3e547fc&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g[/IMG]


Awesome throw into triple coverage to Hilton
[IMG]https://media3.giphy.com/media/Iyz5Yw878YkasmlGcf/giphy.gif[/IMG]


1st down on the ground
[IMG]https://media2.giphy.com/media/I259BmisbhcQCDv1sK/giphy.gif[/IMG]


On this one if you wanna say take the easy 1st down to Doyle that's fair (3rd down play) but it's still a very good throw, difficult but catchable ball ([I]BTW, notice Myles Jack down field with Mr 4.31 40y Parris Campbell? I'd have loved him at 8M/yr...[/I])
[IMG]https://media4.giphy.com/media/3UtJjCvy7ADxBVQR2I/giphy.gif[/IMG]


If you wanna roast him for bad ball protection on this one, ok, he's trying to throw to the wide open check down... bad awareness ?
[IMG]https://media0.giphy.com/media/QZXGb5854AZjEcx4rt/giphy.gif[/IMG]

1/2

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

2/2

From there starts a slightly concerning stretch of the game, couple of questionnable decisions/errand throws
[IMG]https://media1.giphy.com/media/PmkQbgnJHJ3gV4oG6J/giphy.gif?cid=790b76110ea4304f8454b6e4e027afd96c18db1850845017&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g[/IMG]
[IMG]https://media2.giphy.com/media/auLgMftBSATXcfAXp3/giphy.gif?cid=790b7611d2661d950b2f1df9b49591693b1d579e2b7fce20&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g[/IMG]


This one is behind and too high, but he couldn't lead his receiver too much, otherwise he gets killed by the curl defender (incomplete pass)
[IMG]https://media0.giphy.com/media/nR4IAI3PSece72c9ND/giphy.gif[/IMG]


Awful pick, don't know what he saw there...
[IMG]https://media4.giphy.com/media/4OKEiyAYfd0XLuT4VF/giphy.gif[/IMG]


Another floater (but there weren't many more of these)
[IMG]https://media1.giphy.com/media/eXz0RapQYLlrfcCuWz/giphy.gif?cid=790b7611ac660e024619e7771aaed5acfa5385e99fe7dba2&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g[/IMG]


Very nice play on 3rd down. Offense again unable to score on the following 4th and short run...
[IMG]https://media0.giphy.com/media/oxjaDDCAjIuOvbbFJd/giphy.gif[/IMG]


Amazing throw with a defender around his neck, Campbell unable to hold on
[IMG]https://media2.giphy.com/media/Rf5t1ankzQyAS1TuRy/giphy.gif[/IMG]


Final drive, there has to be a better angle that this but I thought he scored on this run, anyway called back by a (legit) holding call
[IMG]https://media3.giphy.com/media/J2fDt2j5yLs457tzeJ/giphy.gif[/IMG]


Nice TD, he also connected on the 2points conversion, if you wanna say garbage time, that's fine, but he still made the plays
[IMG]https://media4.giphy.com/media/Ku3BFDGJrnxqbvJq22/giphy.gif[/IMG]

What do you guys think ? The more I look at it, the more I think it was mainly about the Colts GM having a knee jerk reaction... Not saying we're getting 2016/2017 Wentz, but talent is still there, and I'm leaning towards those leadership and mental issues being overblown.

BTW, I do it because I enjoy doing so, and I also think it's way more interesting to see those angles than just what we see on TV, but what do you guys think, is it interesting/useful to our conversations ?

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1314085]

What do you guys think ? The more I look at it, the more I think it was mainly about the Colts GM having a knee jerk reaction... Not saying we're getting 2016/2017 Wentz, but talent is still there, and I'm leaning towards those leadership and mental issues being overblown.
[/quote]

I think it was the owner that had the knee jerk reaction, also had something to do with Wentz not getting the Vaccine I think. The stories coming out afterwards reek of the PR team trying to justify the move t protect he owner and the over inflated reputation of the Indy FO. The press seem to love them. Reich (the Indy HC) contacted Ron after the trade to talk up Carson which speaks volumes to me.

As for the Eagles, they canned their SB winning head coach only weeks after trading Wentz, so there was obviously some internal strife between the FO and Coaching staff which may well have had a significant effect on the players as a whole, especially Wentz if the FO was pushing for Hurts to be played. Only the year before Wentz single handedly took them to the playoffs with absolutely no help on offense.

Bottom line is he is a "Commander" now so I personally am choosing to be up beat about him as there is no benefit to being negative when I cannot change the situation.

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

I have not seen 1 single player say anything negative about his work ethic so that rumor was bullshit

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

Nice cut ups French, if you notice you can see his WRs did not get much separation.. Those throws are some tough ones to make for any qb

Re: Welcome Carson Wentz
 

I’m staying positive.. in this day and age with everything haywire I’m looking for a diversion that takes me away from the daily grind .. I’m saying super bowl but I know I’m insane😀