Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]You said you'd lost ALL respect for Gibbs, would never believe anything he says ever again and we're due for a dismal season. Plus you claimed there was some sort of player revolt without actually offering any proof

[url="http://www.thewarpath.net/showpost.php?p=103294&postcount=24"]http://www.thewarpath.net/showpost.php?p=103294&postcount=24[/url]

Sounds a lot like "we suck" to me[/QUOTE]

And I'll stand by what I said. I have lost respect for Gibbs, I will have trouble believing anything he says and I do think we'll have a dismal season IF Brunell stays as the starter.

I will also say that I think our "D" will continue to play well, as they always have. I just don't think the "D" will be able to score enough TDs to give us a winning season.

Don't forget - the best part of this team is the D, the one part of the team that Gibbs has basically left alone for Williams to run. The part of team that was so horrible last year was the "O", Joe's "baby" that he personally directs and pays the most attention to.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]this decision stripped the offense of any optimism from the last game or faith in the guy they practiced with all off-season. they'll be just as nervous and unsure as ever, and going into such an important game to boot.

Brunell's second half preseason success cannot justify the timing of this decision. it has to be a trick for Dallas, please let it be a trick.[/QUOTE]
its not

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=LadyT]And I'll stand by what I said. I have lost respect for Gibbs, I will have trouble believing anything he says and I do think we'll have a dismal season IF Brunell stays as the starter.

I will also say that I think our "D" will continue to play well, as they always have. I just don't think the "D" will be able to score enough TDs to give us a winning season.

Don't forget - the best part of this team is the D, the one part of the team that Gibbs has basically left alone for Williams to run. The part of team that was so horrible last year was the "O", Joe's "baby" that he personally directs and pays the most attention to.[/QUOTE]

Well I'm sorry to hear that you've lost respect for Gibbs. And that you're ready to write off this season with Brunell as the starter. If you're still a Redskins fan (in spite of losing respect for Gibbs and expecting nothing but failure this season), then I'm sure you hope you're totally wrong and that Gibbs is making the right choice here.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

If Ramsey really wants to be traded...trade him. Get another first round pick and see if Jeff George wants to carry a clipboard! :rofl:

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

we couldn't get a first rounder for Ramsey after the meat grinder we've put him through. we've used any talent he had up with less than nothing to show for it. monumental waste of reps.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

trade ramsey for a pick, watch him be successful somewhere else and pick up tim couch

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]Well I'm sorry to hear that you've lost respect for Gibbs. And that you're ready to write off this season with Brunell as the starter. If you're still a Redskins fan (in spite of losing respect for Gibbs and expecting nothing but failure this season), then I'm sure you hope you're totally wrong and that Gibbs is making the right choice here.[/QUOTE]

Funny that you could dig up that other quote, TAFKAS, but not this one. [url="http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?p=103904#post103904"]http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?p=103904#post103904[/url]



I'm with you, LadyT. Though at this point I've stopped hoping for fair assessments on either side. Everyone has made up their minds (both ways) and won't let facts cloud their judgement.

Fact:Ramsey had 2 turnovers and another fumble in three series. That is an awful high percentage of drive killing turnovers.
Fact:He threw for more yards in that time than Brunell did the rest of the game, which was almost 3 quarters.

Not quite a fact, but close:That fumble should have been an illegal hit call. Perhaps he wouldn't have fumbled a forearm blow to the chest or head, the neck is the most vulnerable part of the body.

Anyway, no one knows how Brunell Part II is going to work out, not even Gibbs. We are all just hoping for the best at this point. But the outright hostility some board members have shown (not directed at you so much, TAFKAS) to people with differing opinions is just sad. We all are entitled to our opinions, and I just hate to see the rhetoric being thrown about now. We are all pulling for the same team (mostly) though it would be hard to believe if someone were here for the first time today.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

I can't read all the post so I don't know if this has been discussed. I doupt Ramsey will be traded durn the 05 season. So with that being said what is going to happen if Brunell plays bad in the Cowboys game. We then have a by week and it will be real intresting to see what will happen with the QB situation over those two weeks and Gibbs will be under fire from alot of people.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=firstdown]I can't read all the post so I don't know if this has been discussed. I doupt Ramsey will be traded durn the 05 season. So with that being said what is going to happen if Brunell plays bad in the Cowboys game. We then have a by week and it will be real intresting to see what will happen with the QB situation over those two weeks and Gibbs will be under fire from alot of people.[/QUOTE]

I am not sure what will happen, but I can tell you Gibbs doesn't care about any other people and whether he is under fire. He cares about the Redskins and wins.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=jbcjr14]I am not sure what will happen, but I can tell you Gibbs doesn't care about any other people and whether he is under fire. He cares about the Redskins and wins.[/QUOTE]

keeping an injured middleage QB last year over a young healthy and talented one made me doubt that thing about wins. ultimately i know thats what he cares about, but last year and today makes me think he wants HIS team out there first, losses be damned, THEN he'll focus on winning.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]Well I'm sorry to hear that you've lost respect for Gibbs. And that you're ready to write off this season with Brunell as the starter. If you're still a Redskins fan (in spite of losing respect for Gibbs and expecting nothing but failure this season), then I'm sure you hope you're totally wrong and that Gibbs is making the right choice here.[/QUOTE]

TAFKAS, your posts always seem to tow the company line, rarely questioning a front office move or a coaching move. Let me ask you this: If the Redskins finish below .500 for the season, would you call for Joe Gibbs' resignation? Williams is gone after this year if we don't give him the HC job, and Brunnell was a Gibbs decision all the way.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

As a Skins fan we all pulled for Ramsey. Last year we chanted his name as Brunell flung ducks all over the field. When Ramsey got in he never impressed. He looks uncomfortable and does not seem to have "IT" which is the general feel for the NFL game. Maybe he could be good somewhere else but that would surprise me more than Brunell taking this team to the playoffs. The reason I say this and the reason Gibbs made this decision is Ramsey Turns the Ball over. With the great Defense we are going to have this year and improved O-line what we need at QB is someone whose not going to make mistakes. Following the blueprint of the 2000 Ravens. Ramsey was a class act but as far as deserving a shot.... He doesn't deserve anything. We as fan deserve a winning season and Brunell as our starter gives us the best shot.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=jbcjr14]I am not sure what will happen, but I can tell you Gibbs doesn't care about any other people and whether he is under fire. He cares about the Redskins and wins.[/QUOTE]I know Gibbs is man enough to take some heat and stay true to what he believes. I was just making the point of a two week break with a QB controversy if Brunell plays poorly.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

How and why is Gregg Williams necessarily gone after this year? He is making $1.9M (base salary) to be the defensive coordinator and can earn more in bonus money. More than a few head coaches don't make that kind of money.

When Gibbs came here, he signed a 5 year contract. So, any assistant who came here with him had to have in mind that it was at least possible - if not probable - that the head coaching job here was not going to be available for that period of time. So, if Williams came here under that kind of "understanding" what is the imperative that makes him leave now?

And by the way, Williams' track record in Buffalo was not exactly spectacular as the head coach...

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]How and why is Gregg Williams necessarily gone after this year? He is making $1.9M (base salary) to be the defensive coordinator and can earn more in bonus money. More than a few head coaches don't make that kind of money.

When Gibbs came here, he signed a 5 year contract. So, any assistant who came here with him had to have in mind that it was at least possible - if not probable - that the head coaching job here was not going to be available for that period of time. So, if Williams came here under that kind of "understanding" what is the imperative that makes him leave now?

And by the way, Williams' track record in Buffalo was not exactly spectacular as the head coach...[/QUOTE]

If Williams' Defense finishes in the top 5 for the season again, I'll bet you $25 he leaves for a HC job somewhere else. Why keep putting a kick ass defense on the field when there is no hope in sight. And I would take Williams as a HC with total say over defense and an offensive coordinator over what we have right now any day.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]How and why is Gregg Williams necessarily gone after this year? He is making $1.9M (base salary) to be the defensive coordinator and can earn more in bonus money. More than a few head coaches don't make that kind of money.

When Gibbs came here, he signed a 5 year contract. So, any assistant who came here with him had to have in mind that it was at least possible - if not probable - that the head coaching job here was not going to be available for that period of time. So, if Williams came here under that kind of "understanding" what is the imperative that makes him leave now?

And by the way, Williams' track record in Buffalo was not exactly spectacular as the head coach...[/QUOTE]Williams is not going anywhere he is going to be our next head coach in 2 to 3 years.He also stated that he is having more fun coaching than he has had at any time in his career.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]so everyone should quit having opinions and bow to your will? and if they don't they're not a fan, right? So that means that all the gear and time spent was just for shits and giggles? thanks, but maybe you're the one that needs to chill.

or you could prove you're a fan and pay me $50. But if you don't you're not worth "the poop on gibbs ass" and were never really a fan. Great logic, eh?[/QUOTE]

Amen. You dare to criticize the team, the coach or the players and suddenly... you're not REALLY a Washington Redskins fan. You're fairweather. You're a frontrunner.

I've about had it with those who say that if you say anything negative about the team or any of its members, somehow, you're simply cannot be a REAL fan, you're secretly a Cowboy fan.

Yeah. That's exactly why we spend all of our time here.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=paulskinsfan]If Williams' Defense finishes in the top 5 for the season again, I'll bet you $25 he leaves for a HC job somewhere else. Why keep putting a kick ass defense on the field when there is no hope in sight. And I would take Williams as a HC with total say over defense and an offensive coordinator over what we have right now any day.[/QUOTE]

Do you remember when he was in Buffalo and he looked like Buddy Ryan getting his ass whipped. He's a defensive coordinator getting paid 2 million dollars a year to be adored by the best fans in america. If he leaves he risks cash, reputation, etc... I bet he stays. Unless this guy has some amazing OC in his back pocket waiting he is going to stay.
Some guys are better coordinators then head coaches.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=paulskinsfan]TAFKAS, your posts always seem to tow the company line, rarely questioning a front office move or a coaching move. Let me ask you this: If the Redskins finish below .500 for the season, would you call for Joe Gibbs' resignation? Williams is gone after this year if we don't give him the HC job, and Brunnell was a Gibbs decision all the way.[/QUOTE]

I don't know what makes you so sure Williams is gone after this year? I don't know know what makes you so sure he'll be a great head coach anyway. Like SC said, he wasn't that great the first time around. Not to say he can't be.

I would not call for Gibbs' resignation. Sorry for being one of those who believes he's earned the right to decide when to resign.

I wish they kept Smoot. If they were going to replace him I wish it had been with one of the other free agents out there. I think CB is too demanding a position in Williams' system to fully entrust in Rogers, and as solid as Harris is I don't know about his health. I didn't agree with the decision to trade picks for Campbell. I would have rather gotten our QB in a later round. I liked getting Brunell last offseason, but think they should have waited because he could have been had for a lot less. But I don't know, I guess I tend not to dwell on things. I mean Smoot isn't here. What am I going to do, just write post after post bitching that he's not around or evaluate what we have?

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

yeah tafkas i'm sure you just wanted smoot to stick around so you could keep your old name. lol kidding.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

Mort just gave an update on Espn(he said yesterday that patrick wanted to be traded) and said that there is no indication from the team that patrick wanted to be traded, he did say however this is because it isn't Patrick's style to demand a trade, he doesn't want to be like TO mort said. He then said it is clear however that Ramsey must want to be traded because how o how could someone in Patrick's position not want to be out of here?

So basically the only person who said that Ramsey wanted to be traded just said that he has no one that actually has said that Ramsey wants to be traded and he said this only because it is clear that ramsey should want to be traded? WTF If this comes out to be that ramsey never demanded a trade i am gonna be pissed off my mind. Maybe gibbs is giving Brunell just one week or maybe he is giving him the year but as long as Ramsey is willing to work his way back i am happy, really happy because there is room for improvement and we still have both of them. I doubt that ramsey gets another shot but if brunell throws 3 ints and we lose at Dallas i can see Ramsey getting another shot

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

Ramsey would make a fine starter....for the L.A Avengers.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=BigSKINBauer]I doubt that ramsey gets another shot but if brunell throws 3 ints and we lose at Dallas i can see Ramsey getting another shot[/QUOTE]

or another pres conference about how he's fighting his guts about and being a super super smart football guy....

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

read this:

[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/13/AR2005091301424.html?nav=rss_sports/redskins[/url]

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan0201]Is this true, I hope not, I understand him being upset though. I hope he calms down and realizes that Brunell may only start for one game.[/QUOTE]
I am pissed too. Its probably real and Gibbs will just go get another veteran back up.
Dont be suprised if Chris Chandler or Steve Deberg are seen around town.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=Big Oh]I am pissed too. Its probably real and Gibbs will just go get another veteran back up.
Dont be suprised if Chris Chandler or Steve Deberg are seen around town.[/QUOTE]

LOL! Is Steve Deberg under 60?

RAMSEY, Let him play or move on.
 

I really respect Joe Gibbs, I'm a big Skins and Nascar fan. BUT, if you not gonna play the man let him move on to somewhere he can use his talent. He has been thrown to the wolves, played hurt, what more can you ask of a guy? He just needs to be given a chance, even if its not in DC , everyone has a off day every now and then.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]Well I'm sorry to hear that you've lost respect for Gibbs. And that you're ready to write off this season with Brunell as the starter. If you're still a Redskins fan (in spite of losing respect for Gibbs and expecting nothing but failure this season), then I'm sure you hope you're totally wrong and that Gibbs is making the right choice here.[/QUOTE]

Yep, believe it or not, I would love to be proven wrong here. Just because I am very critical of what Gibbs has done does not mean I want his decisions to fail. I want the Redskins to win - can't say it any plainer than that.

I just have a very hard time seeing how that will happen with what Gibbs did on Monday. And my concern goes well beyond whether Brunell or Ramsey should start. It gets to a real sense of "can we trust what Gibbs is saying anymore?" Can the players trust what he says? Never thought I would say that about Gibbs, but his latest move has made me doubt his sincerity.

Regardless of how this finally plays out, I think even the most loyal Gibbs fan would have to agree that he has really botched this QB issue. And the perception that he has made a mess of this can be very damaging to the team. Yes, I know what some of the players have all been saying publicly - the usual comments about how we'll continue to do our thing, blah, blah. But, you can't convince me that, privately, many of them aren't having some of the same doubts and concerns that we are.

Read Wilbon and Wise's columns in today's Post. They have expressed what I'm trying to say so much better than I can do.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

Right now things might not look pretty on the surface, but if Brunell goes out there and produces all will be quickly forgotten... well maybe not with the die hard Ramsey freaks.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Right now things might not look pretty on the surface, but if Brunell goes out there and produces all will be quickly forgotten... well maybe not with the die hard Ramsey freaks.[/QUOTE]

I'm a die hard Ramsey freak....which actually is a die hard Redskin freak (I just think Ramsey will get us there). If Brunell leads us to just an 8-8 record I will say I was totally wrong and Gibbs was right. I don't need to see the playoffs, just .500 record.

People who truly know me realize that I will eat my words when proven wrong. I will change sides when I think that someone has presented a better argument. I would be a moron if I didn't.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Right now things might not look pretty on the surface, but if Brunell goes out there and produces all will be quickly forgotten... well maybe not with the die hard Ramsey freaks.[/QUOTE]


What if Bruenll goes out there and looks like Brunell 2004? If you think this week was a sh*tstorm....I shutter to think what next week will be like if he plays like crap.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

How would those of you calling Gibbs a liar, hypocrite, etc. feel if Brunell had been promised the starting job last training camp, never showed any real signs that he deserved it and then got pulled after one game. Or if neither one was promised the starting job this past spring.

Basically I want to know if the issue is that Gibbs "lied" or that he "lied" to Ramsey

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

This is exactly the scenario I fear. You have a young QB you have just categorically said I don't trust you and have no faith in you. Now if Brunell fails, n Gibbs has to go back to Ramsey what does that do to his confidence.
The most annoying thing is that Ramsey is not being given a fair chance. If Ramsey is given the number of chances Brunell was given I'm sure he will be QB we all envisioned. I don't blame him for asking to be traded. Why would'nt you when your coach has already made up his mind about you and is just looking for an oppurtunity for you to falter so he can put his man in.


[QUOTE=Gmanc711]What if Bruenll goes out there and looks like Brunell 2004? If you think this week was a sh*tstorm....I shutter to think what next week will be like if he plays like crap.[/QUOTE]

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]What if Bruenll goes out there and looks like Brunell 2004? If you think this week was a sh*tstorm....I shutter to think what next week will be like if he plays like crap.[/QUOTE]

Do you not think Gibbs has mulled this possibility over in his mind a million times or so?

He must be pretty confident it's not going to happen if he's willing to make this switch.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]How would those of you calling Gibbs a liar, hypocrite, etc. feel if Brunell had been promised the starting job last training camp, never showed any real signs that he deserved it and then got pulled after one game. Or if neither one was promised the starting job this past spring.

Basically I want to know if the issue is that Gibbs "lied" or that he "lied" to Ramsey[/QUOTE]

if he promised it to brunell and then publicly stated ramsey was his starter for 7 months, i'd say thats much more two faced then just seeing brunell playing well and deciding to make a switch.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

For the people that say Ramsey wasn't given the same chance that Brunell was given last year, how many games should Ramsey have been given?

Should we have waited until we were on the brink of being eliminated from the playoff race? Should we have waited until the bye week to make a switch?

Just curious, if Ramsey was struggling and the team was losing, how long would you wait to make a change?

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

I'd rather have seen Ramsey get the chance to prove himself for more than a quarter but we have no choice but to cheer for Brunell. We need to at least give the guys in there the home-field advantage (I know that this is a road game.) Clearly I trust the player's/Gibbs' judgments over my own. I don't think we should argue about it anymore until we see what happens Monday night after Brunell gets the week to prepare.

Looking at the Eagles-Falcons game we see what happens when two good defenses collide. Compare a 14-10 final from two of the top teams in the NFC to a 9-7 final from... Well you rank 'em where you see fit.

Someone earlier said that fans are fickle. I agree completely and will do you one better. The game Sunday showed me that 'idiots' is probably a better fit. A WR screen followed by a quick out for a total of 4 yards has them all groaning about Gibbs' playcalling until the 3rd passing play gets them the first down. Now are you happy? Idiots. (The people on Warpath are the only fans that know anything... heh).

Anyways I think we just wait it out and see where the old-timer can take us.

Go Skins!

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]For the people that say Ramsey wasn't given the same chance that Brunell was given last year, how many games should Ramsey have been given?

Should we have waited until we were on the brink of being eliminated from the playoff race? Should we have waited until the bye week to make a switch?

Just curious, if Ramsey was struggling and the team was losing, how long would you wait to make a change?[/QUOTE]

Haha. Hopefully before 9 games right?

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

Gibbs made the comparisons between Rypien and Ramsey, and for those of you old enough to remember Rypien, he did have fumble problems and interception problems early in his career and over came them. The difference this time around is that you have Campbell sitting on the bench waiting to play. I don't think Ramsey would be as upset as we all know he is if we were just talking about Brunell and Ramsey, but you have Campbell there who was selected by Gibbs and not just ramdomly selected either, but purposely gone after. It tells me that Gibbs was thinking in April that Mark was probably done and that he was going to have to play Ramsey, but he did not like it and needed to have a backup for down the road in Campbell. Then Mark "comes back to life" in preseason and Ramsey continues to play inconsistent and now we are where we are. Let's all face it, as soon as Joe feels Campbell is ready, Ramsey is 3rd string.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

Oh please...get over it. Gibbs is the coach and he says Brunnell is going to start. That is that! I think he got the coaching job for good reason, let him coach...if he told me today that Brunnell was his starter and come Monday night (primetime), Doug Williams ran on the field with a #17 jersey and a smile and that wins us the game, so be it!