Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=firstdown;473314]He did vote 90% in 2007 I'm talking about the entire 6 years.[/quote]

Exactly, that's the key point.

You can come up with statistics to say whatever you want, 83% of all people know that. Count the democratic campaign amongst that 83%!

McCain has voted consistently with Bush most recently in 2007 and kind of fallen in line with him. But Bush was right on the troop surge (gasp, did he say Bush was right?).

McCain opposed Bush a lot more often early on in Bush's presidency, back when Bush was doing almost all of the damage that earned him his 29% approval rating. Instead of looking at McCain and Bush over the entire two terms, the democrats are simply framing a soundbyte by taking one year of data out of context.

Statisticians have a word for practices like this: biased sampling.

Gee, imagine that, the Democrats might produce a stat biased towards themselves. And yet so many true blues buy it hook line and sinker without even a thought. "How different can Bush and McCain be if they vote together 90% of the time." Gee, thanks for putting careful thought into who you plan to vote for, you're doing a true service to the United States of America.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Stop with the surge b.s. [URL="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F06E2DA133CF93BA15751C0A9659C8B63&scp=1&sq=Eric+Schmitt+Shinseki&st=nyt"]General Eric Shinseki[/URL] and every sane fucking person on the planet knew [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/12/washington/12shinseki.html"]you couldn't invade and maintain the peace with what we went in with[/URL]. Now they're giving us this b.s. line about the surge as if we are so stupid as to forget how retarded the cocksuckers are and continue to be. To those who say "we're fixing Rumsfeld's mistakes, the surge is working" you offend sensibility.


The truth on Iraq from the elephant's mouth:

[yt]8ieHwOm4ljA[/yt]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

why don't reporters do their job, and ask the tough questions? anyone that watches that video, and still votes for John McCain, deserves what ever they get. may god bless America( don't i sound like im running for office?) that mans judgement is suspect, at best

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Dude, wait, what?

Let me get this straight, we're criticizing them (and rightly so) for not going in with enough troops to begin with. Then when they do put more troops in and they make progress, we're not going to give them credit?

If Obama had his way, the surge never would have happened, we would have just come home. In fact, even after the surge worked, he still suggests we come home. That's equally stubborn and bull-headed as Bush was when he got on the carrier and declared mission accomplished.

I just have a problem with your logic, you're not applying it consistently.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

No you don't get credit...you can still get an F in a class even if you pass the final (typically happens when you drink all semester long and only show up for finals). Even worse, if you cheat during the final and you get caught you face expulsion.

If Obama had his way we wouldn't have invaded and if he did invade he would have competence on his side which typically results in better decision making.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;473339]No you don't get credit...you can still get an F in a class even if you pass the final (typically happens when you drink all semester long and only show up for finals). Even worse, if you cheat during the final and you get caught you face expulsion.

If Obama had his way we wouldn't have invaded and if he did invade he would have competence on his side which typically results in better decision making.[/quote]

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Imagine: The Redskins turn the ball over three times in the first half due to mental lapses and fumbles by the RBs, and end up down 20-0. In the third quarter they decide to stop handing the ball off to the RBs because the opposing defense is vulnerable to the deep ball (they have four Roy Williamses in the secondary). The Skins should have known this all along, but just start attacking the secondary in the 3rd quarter. By the fourth quarter, they're ahead 23-20. Should they just go home at that point, or should they keep doing what's working until the game is over?

That's what the surge was, an adjustment. Sure, we should have known all along that if we go into Iraq we better bring a ton of troops. But are you actually suggesting that the surge was a bad idea?

Here's the problem with the "Obama had it right, we never should have gone in the first place" statement. WE ARE IN IRAQ. We can't turn back the clock. So the question is, what will the candidates do from here on out?

Obama wants to pull out. That makes no fuckin sense at all, not when violence there is way down to the point where Petraeus is recommending we begin drawing down our troops gradually.

Democrats are clinging too hard to the past; yes Bush made mistakes, and we're all angry about it. But unless you come with a plan that makes any damn sense, you will still lose the election. Criticizing what Bush did in his first term doesn't do any good in quelling the remaining violence in Iraq. That's the dems in a nutshell this election; Bush screwed up, we're not Bush, so vote for us! So focused on the past, they've forgotten to develop a plan that makes any sense.

Sure would explain why McCain is hanging in there in a year when it should be a slam dunk for democrats.

They're all talk.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Schneed10;473380]That makes no sense whatsoever.

Imagine: The Redskins turn the ball over three times in the first half due to mental lapses and fumbles by the RBs, and end up down 20-0. In the third quarter they decide to stop handing the ball off to the RBs because the opposing defense is vulnerable to the deep ball (they have four Roy Williamses in the secondary). [B]The Skins [I][SIZE=4]should[/SIZE][/I] have known this all along[/B], but just start attacking the secondary in the 3rd quarter. By the fourth quarter, they're ahead 23-20. Should they just go home at that point, or should they keep doing what's working until the game is over?

That's what the surge was, an adjustment. Sure, we should have known all along that if we go into Iraq we better bring a ton of troops. But are you actually suggesting that the surge was a bad idea?

Here's the problem with the "Obama had it right, we never should have gone in the first place" statement. WE ARE IN IRAQ. We can't turn back the clock. So the question is, what will the candidates do from here on out?

Obama wants to pull out. That makes no fuckin sense at all, not when violence there is way down to the point where Petraeus is recommending we begin drawing down our troops gradually.

Democrats are clinging too hard to the past; yes Bush made mistakes, and we're all angry about it. But unless you come with a plan that makes any damn sense, you will still lose the election. Criticizing what Bush did in his first term doesn't do any good in quelling the remaining violence in Iraq. That's the dems in a nutshell this election; Bush screwed up, we're not Bush, so vote for us! So focused on the past, they've forgotten to develop a plan that makes any sense.

Sure would explain why McCain is hanging in there in a year when it should be a slam dunk for democrats.

They're all talk.[/quote]

It makes perfect sense to me but that's because I have two left brain lobes.

Should have known? They knew! We're up 23-20 with how many years to go? What about the refs? Are they making the right calls? Fair calls? I keep hearing about progress yet at this point I don't know why I should care. Who are we fighting in Iraq? Why I'm I paying for it? I find the whole surge thing insulting because I believe it to be a worthless gimmick, a way to divert attention from the real problems in Iraq (ethnic issues and corruption). Iraq is so fickle it doesn't really matter what we do at this point. Iraqis don't want us there. They think their country is better off without us in the mix so why not oblige them?

Pulling out makes sense if you apply the principle of sunken costs. You hand Iraq over back to the Iraqis and tell them "get your shit together, we've done all we could." This is what we're starting to do now and McCain was left looking like a baboon by even Bush with his "Time Horizon not Timetable" bullshit.

Don't site polls, you shot polls down just recently in a post. Besides, you know damn well state polls are what matters because ultimately the electoral vote winner wins the election.

[yt]9AknbG8LaEc[/yt]

"I mean, come on, they must think you're stupid!"

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;473384]Should have known? They knew! We're up 23-20 with how many years to go? What about the refs? Are they making the right calls? Fair calls? I keep hearing about progress yet at this point I don't know why I should care. Who are we fighting in Iraq? Why I'm I paying for it? I find the whole surge thing insulting because I believe it to be a worthless gimmick, a way to divert attention from the real problems in Iraq (ethnic issues and corruption). Iraq is so fickle it doesn't really matter what we do at this point. Iraqis don't want us there. They think their country is better off without us in the mix so why not oblige them?

Pulling out makes sense if you apply the principle of sunken costs. You hand Iraq over back to the Iraqis and tell them "get your shit together, we've done all we could." This is what we're starting to do now and McCain was left looking like a baboon by even Bush with his "Time Horizon not Timetable" bullshit.

Don't site polls, you shot polls down just recently in a post. Besides, you know damn well state polls are what matters because ultimately the electoral vote winner wins the election.

[yt]9AknbG8LaEc[/yt]

"I mean, come on, they must think you're stupid!"[/quote]

If you can't even tell me who we're fighting in Iraq, then I can't even believe I'm debating with you. I also can't believe you intend to cast a vote in this election. Our main enemy there is Al Qaeda in Iraq and the like-minded fighters that are coming in from Iran and Syria, but we're also there as a peacekeeping force. Without a strong military and police force, Iraq is left in a power vacuum, giving the various ethnic groups a chance to assert themselves by force and thrust the country into civil war. And you're wrong in saying Iraqis don't want us there, the 90% of people in that country who simply want to go to work and protect their families have wanted us there to keep these forces in check. And now, after finally putting enough troops on the ground, we are gradually handing over control to the Iraqi military and police force as they work to keep warring ethnic groups under control.

When speaking of "sunken costs", you are clearly analyzing the situation solely based upon what America is putting into this war, and not thinking one iota about the Iraqis' stake in all of this.

From a moral standpoint, how can you show such little regard for the safety of a people who we left in a power vacuum when we invaded and toppled Saddam? How can you be OK with leaving suddenly, without first ensuring security, after watching your country invade under false pretenses knocking out electricity, commerce, communications, and running water in some spots? How can you talk of sunken costs when our country left their lives in shambles?

We owe it to them to see that their society can successfully quell any uprisings from the crazies at the far end of the political spectrum, who if given the opportunity, will gladly seize power by force.

Bush created this clusterfuck, but don't make it worse by failing to fix it, and that's exactly what Obama would do.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

what part of the Iraqi gov't want us out, doesn't the republican party get? i agree with alot of your post. but i think we have more of an obligation to OUR people. over 4000 dead already. trillions spent. with absolutely no guarantees. your saying we made a gigantic mistake. and, now its our duty to try and remedy the mess we made. this is one of the differences between the 2 parties. in case you havent noticed, we have plenty of our own problems here at home to deal with

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=dmek25;473403]what part of the Iraqi gov't want us out, doesn't the republican party get? i agree with alot of your post. but i think we have more of an obligation to OUR people. over 4000 dead already. trillions spent. with absolutely no guarantees. your saying we made a gigantic mistake. and, now its our duty to try and remedy the mess we made. this is one of the differences between the 2 parties. in case you havent noticed, we have plenty of our own problems here at home to deal with[/quote]

The actual lives of the Iraqi people, whether they live or die, is significantly more important than our economic problems, our healthcare coverage problems, our education issues, etcetera.

If you can't get on board with that then I have serious doubts about your ability to think about the well being of the many as opposed to the well being of the few (or you).

What would you have us do with the money we spent on Iraq over the last few years? No doubt it would go towards something to make your own life easier.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

this is coming from the same party that doesn't want everyone in America to have health care? that is against most bail outs? im all about helping out fellow Americans. the war was, and always will be about oil. and i have no problem with that. but lets not try to kid each other. this war was grossly mismanaged. i have more problem with the thousands in New Orleans, that still have to live in a trailer, then i do with some Iraqi, that would probably prefer to cut my head off. lets get our house in order, before we send trillions elsewhere

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=dmek25;473406]this is coming from the same party that doesn't want everyone in America to have health care? that is against most bail outs? im all about helping out fellow Americans. the war was, and always will be about oil. and i have no problem with that. but lets not try to kid each other. this war was grossly mismanaged. i have more problem with the thousands in New Orleans, that still have to live in a trailer, then i do with [B]some Iraqi, that would probably prefer to cut my head off[/B]. lets get our house in order, before we send trillions elsewhere[/quote]

Boy is that ignorant. I'll just leave it at that.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Not only do we owe it to the Iraqi people, but we owe it too the entire Middle East to continue supporting their country. We've fucked up the Middle East for years... and now when we have the chance to rebuild a country and improve the quality of life exponentially, people think it's a good idea to back out?

Sorry, with our track record in the Middle East... we would be doing nothing but continuing a tradition of shitting on countries by getting out. Nothing would be a bigger slap in the face to the Iraqi people than to abandon their country prematurely.

The Middle East needs Iraq to work. In the grand scheme of things, the Iranian people can look up to a successful democracy and see, first hand, what they all want. Most Iranians despise their own government, but they can't do anything about it. I'm not saying they're going to overthrow their government based on the success of Iraq, but just that it will help our cause for peace.

Setting an example in Iraq can have profound affects on neighboring countries. Conversely, if we let them fall back into shambles, the religious extremist gain an entirely new population of disgruntled citizens that hate the United States.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Schneed10;473386]If you can't even tell me who we're fighting in Iraq, then I can't even believe I'm debating with you. I also can't believe you intend to cast a vote in this election. [B]Our main enemy there is Al Qaeda in Iraq and the like-minded fighters that are coming in from Iran and Syria, but we're also there as a peacekeeping force. [/B]Without a strong military and police force, Iraq is left in a power vacuum, giving the various ethnic groups a chance to assert themselves by force and thrust the country into civil war. And you're wrong in saying Iraqis don't want us there, the 90% of people in that country who simply want to go to work and protect their families have wanted us there to keep these forces in check. And now, after finally putting enough troops on the ground, we are gradually handing over control to the Iraqi military and police force as they work to keep warring ethnic groups under control.

[B]When speaking of "sunken costs", you are clearly analyzing the situation solely based upon what America is putting into this war, and not thinking one iota about the Iraqis' stake in all of this.

From a moral standpoint, how can you show such little regard for the safety of a people who we left in a power vacuum when we invaded and toppled Saddam? How can you be OK with leaving suddenly, without first ensuring security, after watching your country invade under false pretenses knocking out electricity, commerce, communications, and running water in some spots? How can you talk of sunken costs when our country left their lives in shambles?

We owe it to them to see that their society can successfully quell any uprisings from the crazies at the far end of the political spectrum, who if given the opportunity, will gladly seize power by force.[/B]

Bush created this clusterfuck, but don't make it worse by failing to fix it, and that's exactly what Obama would do.[/quote]


Now you're just bring a water pistol to a gun fight. Give it up on Al-Qaeda and Iran b.s. It's a well know fact that Al-Qaeda had no presence in Iraq before the war and we're the only reason they continue to be there. Iraq is nothing more than Al-Qaeda recruiting tool. The gift that keeps giving. Every collateral damage results in a fresh recruit. Iraqis can deal with them and probably more effectively than we ever can.


I care about the people I don't think it's continued cost justifies staying there. The fucking thing is a clusterfuck as you put it and there's no end in sight unless the issue is forced. I believe McCain captured some of my sentiments quite well...I give you the brilliant and honorable Mr. McCain.

[yt]Ajm5JTf7jZs[/yt]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Back on topic. Palin sure is a reformer. Fox New's Chris Wallace doing his job:

[yt]hG7WGVmVl-4[/yt]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Did you listen to what he said?

He's telling you what could happen if we left right now, essentially arguing that the cost of leaving would be greater in the long run than the cost for staying. I remember watching this on meet the press and completely agreeing with what he had to say.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Yes, I got the message that it's not really about the people (display of hypocrisy is sickening). They couldn't project the cost of entering and they keep telling us we're making progress and we're winning for the last 5 years and now I'm to take this dipshit's word on the cost of staying vs leaving? What is the cost of leaving? And can we continue to stall that cost or stop incurring that cost all together?

Cried wolf too many times...red card...unsportsmanlike like conduct warranting an ejection...strike 3...you're out!

[yt]ULyka2Bfp04[/yt]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Some serious humor:

[yt]VKwesxb83c4[/yt]

[yt]Eneq0jcMlTw[/yt]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;473429]Now you're just bring a water pistol to a gun fight. Give it up on Al-Qaeda and Iran b.s. [B]It's a well know fact that Al-Qaeda had no presence in Iraq before the war and we're the only reason they continue to be there. Iraq is nothing more than Al-Qaeda recruiting tool.[/quote]

1. "Al-Qeada in Iraq", the movement Schneed identified, is not bin-laden's "Al-Qeada". Rather it is a pre-existing Sunni extremist group that declared its allegiance to bin-laden after a new Iraqi govt. was established. By all accounts, this group has steadily lost credibility and recruits since the surge.

[quote=saden1;473429]The gift that keeps giving. Every collateral damage results in a fresh recruit. Iraqis can deal with them and probably more effectively than we ever can.[/quote]

True earlier in the war. Again, however, every report out of Iraq lately is that the pendulum has swung and the populous is now viewing the extremists as just that and it is their intransigence and commitment to violence that is driving the populous away.

At some point, people realize that the extremists have no solution but violence and see that the cycle of violence can only be broken(and thus the collateral damage stop) by coming up with non-violent solutions. The US and the Iraqi govt. are open to non-violent solutions, AQI is not. As the US shows that it is not opposed to peace and prosperity for Iraqis (and, in fact, is actually striving for that end), Iraqis and other Arabs see that and realize who is actually causing the violence.

Been out drinking and hanging out in the sun all day so this post probably makes no sense. Just pointing out that the Al-queada connection implied by Saden was wrong. Flame away.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;473579]1. "Al-Qeada in Iraq", the movement Schneed identified, is not bin-laden's "Al-Qeada". Rather it is a pre-existing Sunni extremist group that declared its allegiance to bin-laden after a new Iraqi govt. was established. By all accounts, this group has steadily lost credibility and recruits since the surge.



True earlier in the war. Again, however, every report out of Iraq lately is that the pendulum has swung and the populous is now viewing the extremists as just that and it is their intransigence and commitment to violence that is driving the populous away.

At some point, people realize that the extremists have no solution but violence and see that the cycle of violence can only be broken(and thus the collateral damage stop) by coming up with non-violent solutions. The US and the Iraqi govt. are open to non-violent solutions, AQI is not. As the US shows that it is not opposed to peace and prosperity for Iraqis (and, in fact, is actually striving for that end), Iraqis and other Arabs see that and realize who is actually causing the violence.

Been out drinking and hanging out in the sun all day so this post probably makes no sense. Just pointing out that the Al-queada connection implied by Saden was wrong. Flame away.[/quote]

You speak for Schneed now?

Oh, I see now, the Iraqi Al-Qeada branch isn't really part of the bin -Laden franchise. They really existed in Iraq before as some other group and were plotting to kill Americans. After we invaded Iraq they joined Al-Qeada family but that really wasn't because of us, they were planning to do it anyways.

If everything is so cool and nice, why not pickup and leave? I get it, we've made progress but not enough to hand over the country yet. It's getting better by the day though. We just have to stick to it even if we have to pay people off and setup a puppet corrupt government.

If I'm wrong I fail to see the wrong turn I took. I think you might want to re-read my earlier post. It's pretty clear, reasoned, and self explanatory.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;473592]You speak for Schneed now?

Oh, I see now, the Iraqi Al-Qeada branch isn't really part of the bin -Laden franchise. They really existed in Iraq before as some other group and were plotting to kill Americans. After we invaded Iraq they joined Al-Qeada family but that really wasn't because of us, they were planning to do it anyways.

If everything is so cool and nice, why not pickup and leave? I get it, we've made progress but not enough to hand over the country yet. It's getting better by the day though. We just have to stick to it even if we have to pay people off and setup a puppet corrupt government.

If I'm wrong I fail to see the wrong turn I took. [B]I think you might want to re-read my earlier post. It's pretty clear, reasoned, and self explanatory[/B].[/quote]

Not really, it ignores quite a number of facts on the ground in Iraq. It's your basic regurgitation of the democratic party line from 18 months ago.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;473592]You speak for Schneed now?[/quote]

No. Schneed speaks more than well enough for himself. You, however, made an inaccurate statement in your rebuttal. I was simply drawing attention to your inaccuracy.

[quote=saden1;473592]Oh, I see now, the Iraqi Al-Qeada branch isn't really part of the bin -Laden franchise. They really existed in Iraq before as some other group and were plotting to kill Americans. After we invaded Iraq they joined Al-Qeada family but that really wasn't because of us, they were planning to do it anyways.[/quote]

<sigh> The group that became popularly known as Al-Qeada In Iraq in October, 2004 is now allied to - but was not originally part of - the Osama led Al-Qeada. They are, in fact, different groups - AQI is a group originally led by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi (killed in 2006) that began as part of the Sunni counter-insurgency organized after the US invasion.

AQI's official name is different than "Al-Qeada In Iraq" (It's something like "Jihad in the Country of Two Rivers"). AQI simply did not exist under that name at the time of the original invasion and, prior to the invasion, the group that became known as AQI did not exist at all as many members were part of Sunni power structure. After the fall of the Iraqi Baathist government, Zarqawi led a faction of the Sunni counter-insurgency eventually declaring himself and his followers as allies to Osama.

Your original assertion that there was no Al-Qeada presence in Iraq prior to the invasion is generally accepted to be true with the caveat that, due to his increasing isolation by the West, there was evidence that Saddam was beginning to reach out to Sunni extremist groups, including al-qeada, for support.

Based on Schneed's original statement and the points he was debating, however, it is my impression that the discussion was not about pre-war al-qaeda but who the [I]curent[/I] enemies are and what there [I]current[/I] role is. Your reference to pre-war al-qeada as part of THAT discussion was inaccurate and irrelevant.


[quote=saden1;473592]If everything is so cool and nice, why not pickup and leave? I get it, we've made progress but not enough to hand over the country yet. It's getting better by the day though. We just have to stick to it even if we have to pay people off and setup a puppet corrupt government.[/quote]

So we should just pick-up and leave and let the fragile peace that is taking hold - end? Good plan. Further, I have not seen allegations of corruption or puppet government raised before even by the Dems. What is the basis for such assertions?

[quote=saden1;473592]If I'm wrong I fail to see the wrong turn I took. I think you might want to re-read my earlier post. It's pretty clear, reasoned, and self explanatory[/quote]

I think Schneed has very accurately stated the wrong turn you took. I, however, was simply referring to your inaccurate and irrelevant implication that "al-qeada" and "al-qeada in iraq" are synonmous.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Who cares what saden < saten > thinks , he's a flag burning , crybaby , chiken-shit pussy .

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=budw38;473640]Who cares what saden < saten > thinks , he's a flag burning , crybaby , chiken-shit pussy .[/quote]

Woh dude...that's a tad uncalled for. I certainly do not agree with Saden at all on his stance here...in fact he's so far off the mark, it's kind of amusing, but I keep my comments to myself. Just because he is a FAR lefty, and thus a little confused does not make him a bad person, or a "chicken-shit pussy". Is this how you treat everyone with a differing opinion than yours? Saden does not deserve that at all.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=budw38;473640]Who cares what saden < saten > thinks , he's a flag burning , crybaby , chiken-shit pussy .[/quote]

Wow? Uncalled for much?

Saden must have struck a nerve if you couldn't even rebut his points like an adult and had to result to name calling.

:hater:

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

We're fighting Al-Qeada? Saying we're fighting Iraqi insurgents would be more credible. Anywho, Al-Qeada is Al-Qeada and playing the semantics game doesn't fly here. Will they go away if we walk away? I don't know if anyone can say they won't. Maybe we're the only ones that know how to defeat them? Also, I have little faith in reports from the administration or the pentagon to tell us the truth. I want independent verification and unfortunately Lord Bush the only way to do that is through a new administration (hint: not one headed by a 72 year old pro-war guy).

Now you're regurgitating the [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47812-2004Jun16.html"]Al-Qeada/Sadam link hook line[/URL]? That's really disappointing, I expect more for you.

[URL="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article2702794.ece"]Iraq is a synonymous with corruption[/URL] and if you really don't already know this you should. If you truly believe we're not the ones pulling the strings in Iraq in terms of Iraqi policy I am afraid I can't continue with this discussion.

Former Iraq’s Commission on Public Integrity:

[yt]ibxHcX4Oako[/yt]

You guys keep peddling and sinking your teeth into "trust us, we know what we're doing, we know what's going on, we're winning though it's fragile, we're really close to victory" hook line.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

I appreciate all the support guys. For the sake of transparency I must confess that budw38 and I have a history. You see, a while back he tried to hit on me and I told him I don't swing that way and wasn't willing to play on his team. Naturally he was disappointed but I was kind enough to inform him that he could find like minded sausages in San Fransisco. Obviously he has some lingering animosity about being rejected so be kind to him.


budw38, keep looking buddy, i'm sure you'll find your sausage soulmate someday.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

hey saden, if schneed and Joe keep thinking the way they are right now, good old John McCain still might get those 100 years out of Iraq, after all

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;473684]I appreciate all the support guys. For the sake of transparency I must confess that budw38 and I have a history. You see, a while back he tried to hit on me and I told him I don't swing that way and wasn't willing to play on his team. Naturally he was disappointed but I was kind enough to inform him that he could find like minded sausages in San Fransisco. Obviously he has some lingering animosity about being rejected so be kind to him.


budw38, keep looking buddy, i'm sure you'll find your sausage soulmate someday.[/quote]
Your the one living in the North SF, Seattle ,,, nice try .

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=budw38;473640]Who cares what saden < saten > thinks , he's a flag burning , crybaby , chiken-shit pussy .[/quote]

Well, I find that I disagree quite significantly with saden lately (on current events), and I can't say I care lately for his approach (to paraphrase "Everyone affiliated with the Republican party is as osidious as a used tampon") but what you did was an over the line, personal attack directed at another member on this board.

Which of course isn't allowed.

So here's the deal, you have until, let's say 2pm today to apologize to saden (on this thread for the world to see) and then maybe we won't consider banning you. If you don't, you're gone for 6+ months. Of course, I'm not the only mod here so someone else may not be so kind and just decide to ban you outright right now.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;473684]I appreciate all the support guys. For the sake of transparency I must confess that budw38 and I have a history. You see, a while back he tried to hit on me and I told him I don't swing that way and wasn't willing to play on his team. Naturally he was disappointed but I was kind enough to inform him that he could find like minded sausages in San Fransisco. Obviously he has some lingering animosity about being rejected so be kind to him.


budw38, keep looking buddy, i'm sure you'll find your sausage soulmate someday.[/quote]

Let it be. Let the front office handle this one

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=jsarno;473655]Woh dude...that's a tad uncalled for. I certainly do not agree with Saden at all on his stance here...in fact he's so far off the mark, it's kind of amusing, but I keep my comments to myself. Just because he is a FAR lefty, and thus a little confused does not make him a bad person, or a "chicken-shit pussy". Is this how you treat everyone with a differing opinion than yours? Saden does not deserve that at all.[/quote]
No , but when I here people bragging about hating people , celebrating others being hurt ,I might respond that way . I doubt that I have ever made coments like that on this site before . If you want to , take the time to read his prior comments over the years and then mine . As far as saden being a " lefty " , most of my friends and family are left , I do not care nor do I hate others as he has stated . If my comment was off base , sorry .

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=SmootSmack;473720]Well, I find that I disagree quite significantly with saden lately (on current events), and I can't say I care lately for his approach (to paraphrase [B]"Everyone affiliated with the Republican party is as osidious as a used tampon"[/B]) but what you did was an over the line, personal attack directed at another member on this board.

Which of course isn't allowed.

So here's the deal, you have until, let's say 2pm today to apologize to saden (on this thread for the world to see) and then maybe we won't consider banning you. If you don't, you're gone for 6+ months. Of course, I'm not the only mod here so someone else may not be so kind and just decide to ban you outright right now.[/quote]

That's not what I said. My beef is with the Republican party platform, domestic and foreign policy, its leadership in congress and the current administration. I ain't got nothing against you.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

I don't have any sympathy for Tom Brady, Bill Belichick and the Patriots. They don't warrant it and Brady going down couldn't happen to a better team. If you find this line of thinking offensive that's OK.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;473738]That's not what I said. My beef is with the Republican party platform, domestic and foreign policy, its leadership in congress and the current administration. I ain't got nothing against you.[/quote]

I thought you said the platform and its base were repulsive. Maybe I incorrectly took "base" to mean those who have elected them. Either way, it's neither here nor there.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=budw38;473640]Who cares what saden < saten > thinks , he's a flag burning , crybaby , chiken-shit pussy .[/quote]

Totally uncalled for.

See you in 2 weeks.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

You guys preaching peace and good will regarding Iraq are delusional. If you don't understand that we are in Iraq for *us* and not them, then you are waaaaayyy too naive.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

i guess everyone is alittle naive when they don't share your opinion?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

No, it's not about my opinion. I want peace worldwide, and I don't really have a problem paying for it, if I thought we could achieve it.

Understand that I'm not saying we couldn't achieve peace in Iraq -- I just don't think it is why we are there. In fact, I believe everything our government does (and most/all others) is rooted in self-interest.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

The American people seem to like McCain's choice if the polls are to be believed. Clearly, the Democrats were right to be frightened of her. She's a definite force multiplier. If the left cannot destroy her, and they will try to destroy her, they may do what seemed unthinkable just days ago...LOSE. And boy, that would just be a million laughs. If they can't win this year, they may as well go the way of the Whigs.