Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=skinsfan69;541769]What's pissing me off the most is I know for a fact that we're going to overpay for Cutler. History shows that we're not capable of getting the better end of any trade....so I assume it's going to be our #1 pick plus a player. IMO it's not worth it.[/quote]

What, to you, is Cutler's worth?

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=SmootSmack;541767]I think

-A lot of the people here preaching patience are being quite hypocritical considering how so many of us want to cut Malcolm Kelly and Devin Thomas now because of their lack of production their rookie season

-I don't fault the Redskins for looking for ways they think could make the team better

-I think this is less about Cutler and more about a lack of absolute faith in Campbell. And, as much as I like Campbell, when you look around and see the success some of his peers have had it's hard not to get frustrated.

-I don't know that Cutler is a franchise QB per se (mainly because I haven't figured out how I'd define that), but at this point I think he's better than Campbell and that will probably continue, no matter how good Campbell gets

-The sky isn't falling, and people have to stop assuming we're trading every player on our roster. "Oh my God!!! I can't believe we're trading Cooley. This sucks, Everything sucks!!!!"

-My gut (I've lost considerable weight lately, so it may not be speaking as loudly anymore) tells me that Cutler isn't coming here. We can't and don't want to offer as much as some other teams are reportedly offering

-If there is any way at all to get Cutler and keep our #13 overall pick (Oher!!!), I'd do it[/quote]

I really like this post, but you have to admit that over the last 10 years, we've proven pretty definitively that the "redskins way" is not the way to build a championship team. I'm not pissed so much with the specifics of this as I am with the continuing tradition of chasing any name that becomes available.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=SmootSmack;541779]What, to you, is Cutler's worth?[/quote]

He's worth either a high first rounder and a starting player or two first rounders. That's probably his value cause of his huge upside. But we're not in a position to make that kind of deal. We've already got a QB who has the ability to take his game to the next level and we've already made a huge investment in him. On top of that Colt looks pretty promising. Why can't those two dumb asses see that and build on what we've got? I swear they always have a hard on for other teams players.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

IMO Cutler is easily worth a couple #1 picks and then some. Maybe since the Redskins have not had a quality QB in so long we forget how valuable they are. A QB as promising as Cutler at his age is NEVER available in trade so we can throw everything we think we know about player trade value out the window. Great QB play covers up other weaknesses...when the running game is stopped Cutler still gives you a chance...defense has a bad day Cutler still gives you a chance. I am normally a lets build through the draft guy...but in this instance I would pay whatever it takes!

The only commodity the redskins hold that I would be reluctant to include is Laron Landry.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

Thankfully we have a QB in JC who isn't going to let this talk ruffle his feathers, at least not in public. Still, this rumor has me ticked off. I don't think this would be a good move for a variety of reasons.

1) I don't want to see us giving away more draft picks. I don't think the Broncos are going to get the two #1 picks they're asking for, but the price will be steep regardless. I'm guessing our #13 this year and another high rounder next year.

2) I think it would be a bad move for the locker room. JC is well liked and respected by his teammates. Cutler, at least character wise, is not on par with JC. I think this move would piss off a lot of guys in the locker room. Would they get over it and still play hard in the end? Sure. But it's these type of disruptive moves that keep the Redskins in perennial transition mode. Say hello to 8-8 again.

3) I can't for the life of me understand why they want to pull the plug on JC already. They're not even willing to see what he can do in year #2 under Zorn? That really boggles my mind. At least give him year #2 and if this year doesn't work out, don't re-sign him next year and then look at other options. I think this is jumping the gun and only shows that Snyder is reverting back to his pre-Gibbs days of looking for the splashy move and his overall lack of patience in putting together a long term winner.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

The basic value for Cutler in general would probably be at about 1 1st rounder and a 2nd-4th round from the following year. He has a great arm and good mobility, but has a losing record and averages an int in every game started. In their current situation though, I personally believe Cutler's value is drastically lower because the Broncos HAVE to trade him. No team should give up more than a 1st or 2nd for him especially not the Skins since they are the only team with a young qb who's a legitimate starter that's progressed over the last couple seasons.
This trade talk is one reason why I hate the offseason because our team always seems to be one of the main contenders in throwing away draft picks for another teams problem.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

Let me restate that I am on now on the fence for this deal. I was against it initially but am warming to the possibility since we've not had a proven franchise QB since Theisman. Campbell may be that guy, but at this point short of a NFC Championship Game run this is his last season in DC.

Here's what some people don't seem to grasp when bemoaning giving up draft picks. This trade isn't about the 2009 Redskins, it's about the Redskins for the next 10 years. Of course the argument can be made that we'd be 'wasting valuable picks' for one player that may not represent a dramatic upgrade from what we already have. The logic however behind making this move has to be that our FO believes Cutler is a sure fire, once in a decade type of player and they aren't going to be able to get one like him elsewhere.

Let's face it, even teams that draft well there's still about a 35% chance your picks will be busts. At #13 we'd be looking at LDE, LB and OL in that order. What happened the last time we drafted a DE in the 1st round-Kennard Lang. Last time we drafted a LB-Lavar Arrington. Last time we drafted a OL-Chris Samuels. We hit on 33% of those picks. Cutler is already an established player, there's not a 67% chance he fails now.

Yes, good teams build thru the draft, but guess what-so do BAD teams! The Lions have had nearly all of their draft picks over the past 6 years and what has it done for them. By contrast, the Pats have had years with around 10 picks and also years with less than 6 picks. Having draft picks alone is like owning a fluctuating stock-if you don't make a perfect decision you end up with worthless crap.

Let's not act like draft picks, especially with this decision making team, are gold that we are about to trade for straw.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Paintrain;541791]Let me restate that I am on now on the fence for this deal. I was against it initially but am warming to the possibility since we've not had a proven franchise QB since Theisman. Campbell may be that guy, but at this point short of a NFC Championship Game run this is his last season in DC.

Here's what some people don't seem to grasp when bemoaning giving up draft picks. This trade isn't about the 2009 Redskins, it's about the Redskins for the next 10 years. Of course the argument can be made that we'd be 'wasting valuable picks' for one player that may not represent a dramatic upgrade from what we already have. The logic however behind making this move has to be that our FO believes Cutler is a sure fire, once in a decade type of player and they aren't going to be able to get one like him elsewhere.

Let's face it, even teams that draft well there's still about a 35% chance your picks will be busts. At #13 we'd be looking at LDE, LB and OL in that order. What happened the last time we drafted a DE in the 1st round-Kennard Lang. Last time we drafted a LB-Lavar Arrington. Last time we drafted a OL-Chris Samuels. We hit on 33% of those picks. Cutler is already an established player, there's not a 67% chance he fails now.[/quote]

There were probably a ton of Vikings fans thinking this same thing when they traded for Herschel Walker.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Mattyk72;541789]Thankfully we have a QB in JC who isn't going to let this talk ruffle his feathers, at least not in public. Still, this rumor has me ticked off. I don't think this would be a good move for a variety of reasons.

[b]3) I can't for the life of me understand why they want to pull the plug on JC already. They're not even willing to see what he can do in year #2 under Zorn? That really boggles my mind. At least give him year #2 and if this year doesn't work out, don't re-sign him next year and then look at other options. I think this is jumping the gun and only shows that Snyder is reverting back to his pre-Gibbs days of looking for the splashy move and his overall lack of patience in putting together a long term winner.[/b][/quote]
For a long time I felt the same way Matty but here's the thing, to win in the NFL you've got to excel at 3 things and in this order:
-Have an excellent QB
-Rush the QB
-Protect the QB

You said it perfectly, 'if it doesn't work out don't re-sign him and look at other options'. We've been doing that at that position for over 20 years. This is an opportunity to lock that position down for the next 8-12 years. I'm still not sold that it's the right move, but I am convinced that it's not a wrong move. That is, hands down, the most important position on the football field and to be able to go into the next 8-12 offseasons without that being a question has to be pursued.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Takeuon;541778]"Even if JC flops this year, [B]we still have Colt Brennan who has shown flashes whenever he's gotten to play[/B]. And Todd Collins has proven a reliable backup. Cutler is too costly - emotionally and in terms of draft picks. Plus, JC is well liked by his teammates, so I hear. O-line is O for OLD and we will need a running back soon. Don't mortgage the franchise when you don't need to."[/quote]


Seriously man

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=jdlea;541793]There were probably a ton of Vikings fans thinking this same thing when they traded for Herschel Walker.[/quote]

You may be right, but that's grapes and grapefruits. That was universally panned as a horrible deal. Walker was never a good NFL player, never was a franchise back and aside from at UGA never showed any signs he would be one.

The flip side is how excited were we when we got the Saints entire draft for Ricky Williams? How did that work out for us?

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

I guess I'm just not sold on Cutler being the answer when asking the question is he a true franchise QB. I'm not sure if JC is the answer either, but at least we can find out without having to give up more picks than we already gave up when we drafted him.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Mattyk72;541798]I guess I'm just not sold on Cutler being the answer when asking the question is he a true franchise QB. I'm not sure if JC is the answer either, but at least we can find out without having to give up more picks than we already gave up when we drafted him.[/quote]

I see what you are saying so to me the solution is either one or the other. Either make the move to Cutler or make the commitment to Campbell with a 3 year extension. If we go into next offseason with a new QB (Cult of Colt-he's still not going to be ready, if ever, to be a starting NFL QB) then we've failed twice in this offseason to lock that position down.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Paintrain;541797]You may be right, but that's grapes and grapefruits. That was universally panned as a horrible deal. Walker was never a good NFL player, never was a franchise back and aside from at UGA never showed any signs he would be one.

[B]The flip side is how excited were we when we got the Saints entire draft for Ricky Williams? How did that work out for us?[/B][/quote]

How did it work out for us? How many Super Bowls did we parlay those picks into? I like the picks we made, but we've made the playoffs 3 times since that deal. It didn't work out all that well.

I would also add that I'm not sold on Jay Cutler, he's marginally better than Jason Campbell with much better receivers (Royal is probably close to Santana's level right now, IMO) and a far superior line, the only thing Jason had over Jay was a running game for 1/2 the season.

If Cutler comes here, we'll be losing another year to "adjusting to a new QB"/"the QB learning a new system." He's not worth nearly what he'll command in a trade.

Finally, Jay Cutler is probably the most thin-skinned player in the NFL, now. Does anyone think, with the way Skins fans treat QB's, that he's a great fit here? I don't think he'll be able to deal with playing in Washington. And he had Brandon Marshall in Denver, the best receiver here is Santana Moss, that's not even comparison. Jay Cutler with throw a lot more picks here than he did in Denver, and he threw a lot in Denver. I mean, really, he wasn't playing against nearly the pass rushers or the defensive backfields in the AFC West as he will in the NFC East. (Okay, he played against Merriman and the Bolts year before last, but I don't buy into the Oakland D being as good as advertised and KC's isn't nearly on par with Philly/Dal/NYG)

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Paintrain;541799]I see what you are saying so to me the solution is either one or the other. Either make the move to Cutler or make the commitment to Campbell with a 3 year extension. If we go into next offseason with a new QB (Cult of Colt-he's still not going to be ready, if ever, to be a starting NFL QB) then we've failed twice in this offseason to lock that position down.[/quote]

Jeff Garcia, one year deal?

Seriously though, good post

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Paintrain;541799]I see what you are saying so to me the solution is either one or the other. Either make the move to Cutler or make the commitment to Campbell with a 3 year extension. If we go into next offseason with a new QB (Cult of Colt-he's still not going to be ready, if ever, to be a starting NFL QB) then we've failed twice in this offseason to lock that position down.[/quote]

I think you make a good point, but a deal could get done midseason if Jason is playing lights out up to the bye week. At that point, Snyder and Cerrato could act quickly and get something done.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Skins_4_Lyfe;541701]#1 I'm not a big fan of the trade, I just had to laugh when I saw "After all Campbell has done"

#2 Brunnell was better than Campbell[/quote]

Collins was better then Campbell as well. I like Campbell and am on the fence about this trade but lets be real.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[COLOR=darkred][FONT=arial black][B][SIZE=7]Hell NO![/SIZE][/B][/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Mattyk72;541798]I guess I'm just not sold on Cutler being the answer when asking the question is he a true franchise QB. I'm not sure if JC is the answer either, but at least we can find out without having to give up more picks than we already gave up when we drafted him.[/quote]

I agree...its funny, Cutler is the current "hot name" in QB's because of last year...remember the year before?
Derek Anderson was a Pro-bowl QB...why not trade the world for him to be our QB for the next 10 years?
Why not...cause he sucks now..
but he didn't the year before.

The worst time to buy is when everyone thinks something is "hot"
Try buying stocks that way!....duh....its called buy low, sell high...not the reverse!

There is more risk here than some realize...we know what we have in Campbell.....solid, steady, few risks, few mistakes, great character guy.

Cutler is none of this things except perhaps solid...yes he can be coached but character can never be coached...and that is what gibbs took so much time to build...even bringing Daniels back shows that character is still important to the team.

This whole thing reeks of "HUH?" it is totally inconsistent with the changes that were made in terms of patience the last several years...this year with the 2 flashy signings of Hall and Haynesworth...I am having flashbacks of Jeff George again...I think that is what we are worried about.

To Dan, everything being even, the grass is always greener with another teams players, which is why he was accused of letting his good players go while signing big name aging FA's...at least before Gibbs.
A corner was turned a few years ago...and was turned back when we blew too much on Jason Taylor and this years cash party....

I hope someone in the FO puts the bottle down and leaves well enough alone.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=jdlea;541802]How did it work out for us? How many Super Bowls did we parlay those picks into? I like the picks we made, but we've made the playoffs 3 times since that deal. It didn't work out all that well.

I would also add that I'm not sold on Jay Cutler, he's marginally better than Jason Campbell with much better receivers and a far superior line, the only thing Jason had over Jay was a running game for 1/2 the season. (Royal is probably close to Santana's level right now, IMO)

If Cutler comes here, we'll be losing another year to "adjusting to a new QB"/"the QB learning a new system." He's not worth nearly what he'll command in a trade.

Finally, Jay Cutler is probably the most thin-skinned player in the NFL, now. Does anyone think, with the way Skins fans treat QB's, that he's a great fit here? I don't think he'll be able to deal with playing in Washington. And he had Brandon Marshall in Denver, the best receiver here is Santana Moss, that's not even comparison. Jay Cutler with throw a lot more picks here than he did in Denver, and he threw a lot in Denver.[/quote]

I agree with a lot of what you say but I'm not so sure that the Skins lose another year adjusting to the QB. Cutler came in and was starting about halfway thru his rookie season. He picked up enough to be the starter and I'm not sure it will take him long to get up to speed now that he's been a pro for awhile. I think Skins fans are so used to Campbell developing at a snail's pace that they forget some QBs can come in and play right away.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=irish;541808]I agree with a lot of what you say but I'm not so sure that the Skins lose another year adjusting to the QB. Cutler came in and was starting about halfway thru his rookie season. He picked up enough to be the starter and I'm not sure it will take him long to get up to speed now that he's been a pro for awhile. I think Skins fans are so used to Campbell developing at a snail's pace that they forget some QBs can come in and play right away.[/quote]

I see what you're saying, but Favre couldn't really get comfortable with the Jets last year. McNair had issues (while he was very effective) with the Ravens playbook after not being around for the offseason programs. Two veterans had issues with picking up a new O, it can't be that easy.

I think that it is less "JC developing at a snail's pace" and more the West Coast Offense throwing off the way a QB plays; it takes away playmaking instincts which, I believe, Jay relies on.

Steve Young says that it takes 3 years to get a QB used to the WCO and we want to give up on Campbell after 1 and change QB's, I guess that's okay if you think you're getting significantly better (I don't believe you are) or you're committed to your HC (I don't believe you are) and he's committed to the new QB.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Mattyk72;541798]I guess I'm just not sold on Cutler being the answer when asking the question is he a true franchise QB. I'm not sure if JC is the answer either, but at least we can find out without having to give up more picks than we already gave up when we drafted him.[/quote]

The problem is that the 25yr old pro Bowl QB is available now not next year. If JC doesn't improve enough for the redskins to resign him then we will be trying to find a replacement next year from far less appealing options. I am tired of being unstable at the QB position. I like JC a lot and I really wanted him to be the guy especialy since Joe Gibbs picked him, but it's just obvious the Redskins do not see him as that guy. So whether or not we get Cutler it's so obvious that unless JC throws 35 TD's next year he is not getting resigned.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=celts32;541811]The problem is that the 25yr old pro Bowl QB is available now not next year. If JC doesn't improve enough for the redskins to resign him then we will be trying to find a replacement next year from far less appealing options. I am tired of being unstable at the QB position. I like JC a lot and I really wanted him to be the guy especialy since Joe Gibbs picked him, but it's just obvious the Redskins do not see him as that guy. So whether or not we get Cutler it's so obvious that unless JC throws 35 TD's next year he is not getting resigned.[/quote]

There will be other guys available next year.

Funny you say you are tired of being unstable at QB yet you want another QB change. Just sayin'.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=TrustinGibbs;541805]Collins was better then Campbell as well. I like Campbell and am on the fence about this trade but lets be real.[/quote]

Collins played great in Saunders system for 5 inspired Sean Taylor games...
I know some like him...I do too...but he has no wheels and he's old as dirt. No one has seen him perform well in any other system...Campbell is much harder to defend because of his arm and his better mobility and strength plus his ability to take hits.

I liked Brunell but...the guy is a backup now for a reason...he is over the hill
Campbell is quite consistent...perhaps I should have said he is one of our most consistent QB's in a long time....and don't reply that he consistently sucks because he certainly doesn't

Half of you guys thought Campbell was God in the first half of last year (as well as Zorn)
I am glad we have seen a good amount of both of them to see more clearly...

Do I think Campbell is a 10...no way....he's probably a 7....and Cutler is probably an 8 (if he stops throwing picks)

But does that upgrade mean jack if you can't fix your line problem...no way.
Cutler would be a 7 behind our current line with our current receivers...this is just dumb to even be considering this unless we could get cutler and fortify the line and get another solid WR.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

Cutler = the new Spurrier

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=skinsnut;541819]But does that upgrade mean jack if you can't fix your line problem...no way. Cutler would be a 7 behind our current line with our current receivers...this is just dumb to even be considering this unless we could get cutler and fortify the line and get another solid WR.[/quote]

That's probably the most logical paragraph I've read on this site in close to a year.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;541789]
1) I don't want to see us giving away more draft picks. I don't think the Broncos are going to get the two #1 picks they're asking for, but the price will be steep regardless. I'm guessing our #13 this year and another high rounder next year.[/quote]
Finding a true franchise QB is one of the hardest things to do in football. The reported interest across the league in Cutler is astonishing. Evidently, alot of teams feel he can be a perennial pro-bowler for a very long time.

IF, and this is a huge IF because of his health concerns, Cutler came here and performed as everyone thinks and expects him to for 10 years, wouldnt that be worth a couple of first round picks? We've seen how often QBs taken in the draft - even in the top 5 picks - fail. Its very very hard to find a franchise QB in the draft. Its a complete gamble. Wouldnt two 1st round picks for a "sure thing" franchise QB be worth it? IMO, thats a bargain.

[quote=Mattyk72;541789]2) I think it would be a bad move for the locker room. JC is well liked and respected by his teammates. Cutler, at least character wise, is not on par with JC. I think this move would piss off a lot of guys in the locker room. Would they get over it and still play hard in the end? Sure. But it's these type of disruptive moves that keep the Redskins in perennial transition mode. Say hello to 8-8 again.[/quote]
According to Smoot, Campbell isnt nearly as loved by his teammates as you think. Unless Cutler is a total douche and would play horribly here, I think the locker room effect would be a non-issue.

[quote=Mattyk72;541789]3) I can't for the life of me understand why they want to pull the plug on JC already. They're not even willing to see what he can do in year #2 under Zorn? That really boggles my mind. At least give him year #2 and if this year doesn't work out, don't re-sign him next year and then look at other options. I think this is jumping the gun and only shows that Snyder is reverting back to his pre-Gibbs days of looking for the splashy move and his overall lack of patience in putting together a long term winner.
[/quote]
I look at it this way - Whether or not Campbell plays well this year, theres probably a 90% or greater chance that Zorn is coaching his last season. Next year, Holmgreen, Gruden, Shanahan, and Cowher will all be available. Unless Zorn takes this team deep in the playoffs, Zorns gone after the season. Which means, even if Campbell plays extremely well, he'd almost certainly still have to learn a new system and start all over again in 2010.

The chances the stars will align and everything will playout "perfectly," with Zorn, Campbell, and the Redskins team performing well enough for Snyder (an owner known for his impatience) to have Zorn back for a 3rd year are very slim to none. With a more patient owner, one who doesnt feel the urge to make a big splash or mix things up nearly every year, things would be different. Like it or not, thats not the owner we have. In that context, it makes some sense to move Campbell now if we can get value for him - reguardless of whether we get Cutler or not.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

What did Smoot say exactly?

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=celts32;541811]The problem is that the 25yr old pro Bowl QB is available now not next year. If JC doesn't improve enough for the redskins to resign him then we will be trying to find a replacement next year from far less appealing options. I am tired of being unstable at the QB position. I like JC a lot and I really wanted him to be the guy especialy since Joe Gibbs picked him, but it's just obvious the Redskins do not see him as that guy. So whether or not we get Cutler it's so obvious that unless JC throws 35 TD's next year he is not getting resigned.[/quote]

I put little value on Cutler's "Pro Bowl" status. The voting was held before Denver's meltdown in the last month and really, other QBs like Rivers or Pennington were more deserving.

The Pro Bowl doesn't mean a whole lot. Is London Fletcher a bad LB because he's never been voted/chosen for a Pro Bowl? He's been one of the league's best LBers for a decade, but no Pro Bowl honors, which is a joke.

Check out Cutler's second-half game log from last season:

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7760/gamelog]Jay Cutler - Denver Broncos - Game Log - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

7 INTs and just 6 TDs in the last 6 games, QB rating of 78.15 over those games down the stretch...at least one pick in 13/16 games.

That's Pro Bowl material?

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=celts32;541811]The problem is that the 25yr old pro Bowl QB is available now not next year. If JC doesn't improve enough for the redskins to resign him then we will be trying to find a replacement next year from far less appealing options. I am tired of being unstable at the QB position. I like JC a lot and I really wanted him to be the guy especialy since Joe Gibbs picked him, but it's just obvious the Redskins do not see him as that guy. So whether or not we get Cutler it's so obvious that unless JC throws 35 TD's next year he is not getting resigned.[/quote]

Exactly. Looking at 2009 and only 2009, it makes complete sense to stick with Campbell. However, when we consider the strong possibility that for one reason or another Campbell wont be here in 2010 or beyond, it makes alot of sense to investigate other options now.

I have huge reservations about Cutler, but we would be fools not to atleast investigate him as a possibility.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;541825]Finding a true franchise QB is one of the hardest things to do in football. The reported interest across the league in Cutler is astonishing. Evidently, alot of teams feel he can be a perennial pro-bowler for a very long time.

IF, and this is a huge IF because of his health concerns, Cutler came here and performed as everyone thinks and expects him to for 10 years, wouldnt that be worth a couple of first round picks? We've seen how often QBs taken in the draft - even in the top 5 picks - fail. Its very very hard to find a franchise QB in the draft. Its a complete gamble. Wouldnt two 1st round picks for a "sure thing" franchise QB be worth it? IMO, thats a bargain.


According to Smoot, Campbell isnt nearly as loved by his teammates as you think. Unless Cutler is a total douche and would play horribly here, I think the locker room effect would be a non-issue.


I look at it this way - Whether or not Campbell plays well this year, theres probably a 90% or greater chance that Zorn is coaching his last season. Next year, Holmgreen, Gruden, Shanahan, and Cowher will all be available. Unless Zorn takes this team deep in the playoffs, Zorns gone after the season. Which means, even if Campbell plays extremely well, he'd almost certainly still have to learn a new system and start all over again in 2010.

The chances the stars will align and everything will playout "perfectly," with Zorn, Campbell, and the Redskins team performing well enough for Snyder (an owner known for his impatience) to have Zorn back for a 3rd year are very slim to none. With a more patient owner, one who doesnt feel the urge to make a big splash or mix things up nearly every year, things would be different. Like it or not, thats not the owner we have. In that context, it makes some sense to move Campbell now if we can get value for him - reguardless of whether we get Cutler or not.[/quote]

I have heard that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over & over and expecting different results. If the Skins change coaches again, they are the true definition of insanity.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

Personally I would think if JC went out this year and had a quality season and the team went let's say 10-6 or better, Zorn would be safe. But then again who knows, it is the Redskins we're talking about.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Mattyk72;541817]There will be other guys available next year.
[/quote]

Theres always "guys" available, but guys like Cutler - almost never. what "franchise QBs" will be available in 2010? I cant think of any single one. Again, i'm not sold on Cutler because of the diabetes/alcohol thing. I'm just asking, who do you think is going to be available of Cutlers "caliber?"

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;541835]Theres always "guys" available, but guys like Cutler - almost never. what "franchise QBs" will be available in 2010? I cant think of any single one. Again, i'm not sold on Cutler because of the diabetes/alcohol thing. I'm just asking, who do you think is going to be available of Cutlers "caliber?"[/quote]

Never? I'm not even sold on him being a true franchise QB yet. Let's not pencil him into the Hall already.

As far as who could be available who knows? Did anyone see Cutler becoming available?

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;541835]Theres always "guys" available, but guys like Cutler - almost never. what "franchise QBs" will be available in 2010? I cant think of any single one. Again, i'm not sold on Cutler because of the diabetes/alcohol thing. I'm just asking, who do you think is going to be available of Cutlers "caliber?"[/quote]


The alcohol thing is a sports tabloid-generated thing and he's kept his diabetes under control....they're non-issues.

However, his crybaby attitude and selfishness are major obstacles to overcome and I do not want a whiny non-team player like him on the Redskins.

If he was a "franchise" QB, the Broncos would not have been tempted to trade him for a QB who had one partial season with a Super Bowl team who failed to even make the playoffs under his leadership and who had not previously started a game since HIGH SCHOOL.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=irish;541808]I agree with a lot of what you say but I'm not so sure that the Skins lose another year adjusting to the QB. [B]Cutler came in and was starting about halfway thru his rookie season.[/B] He picked up enough to be the starter and I'm not sure it will take him long to get up to speed now that he's been a pro for awhile. I think Skins fans are so used to Campbell developing at a snail's pace that they forget some QBs can come in and play right away.[/quote]

I think this is exactly the reason why the team needs to give Campbell another year. Gibbs should've thrown Campbell to the fire right away, instead he went with old a$$ Brunell up until the time Brunell was non-functional. Had Gibbs gone with Campbell right away, we would be pass his development time and either would have sent JC packing if things had not worked out or if things would have worked out, he'd be a establish QB.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

If you knew you did not want to resign Campbell right now--would it not make sense to make this trade for this and next year's first round picks? It would be a net loss of a first round pick the way I see it.

Snyder, Cerrato, and even Zorn knows they do not want to resign Campbell right now. He is in the bottom third of starting QBs when it comes to TDs, 40+ plays, and 20+ plays. He throws for under 6 yards per pass on average. Zorn wants to attack downfield and that is why Snyderatto hired him. Campbell is not explosive enough and this offense needs more explosive weapons.

Cutler is better at all those above variables that Zorn and the FO value. So might as well make this trade now--spending two #1's and get your guy in place or wait another year, not resign Campbell, and have to spend next year's #1 on another QB that needs to be groomed. Cutler has been groomed and plays in a system related to our WCO. I know we have other needs but we need to score points in this league. The rules are so stacked now to be pro-offense yet the Skins have been painful to watch on offense for years (not counting the games with Todd Collins). I think Cutler will address that better, despite the cost, than having Campbell/a rookie OL or LB...

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=jdlea;541802]How did it work out for us? How many Super Bowls did we parlay those picks into? I like the picks we made, but we've made the playoffs 3 times since that deal. It didn't work out all that well.

I would also add that I'm not sold on Jay Cutler, he's marginally better than Jason Campbell with much better receivers (Royal is probably close to Santana's level right now, IMO) and a far superior line, the only thing Jason had over Jay was a running game for 1/2 the season.

If Cutler comes here, we'll be losing another year to "adjusting to a new QB"/"the QB learning a new system." He's not worth nearly what he'll command in a trade.

[B]Finally, Jay Cutler is probably the most thin-skinned player in the NFL, now. Does anyone think, with the way Skins fans treat QB's, that he's a great fit here? I don't think he'll be able to deal with playing in Washington. [/B]And he had Brandon Marshall in Denver, the best receiver here is Santana Moss, that's not even comparison. Jay Cutler with throw a lot more picks here than he did in Denver, and he threw a lot in Denver. I mean, really, he wasn't playing against nearly the pass rushers or the defensive backfields in the AFC West as he will in the NFC East. (Okay, he played against Merriman and the Bolts year before last, but I don't buy into the Oakland D being as good as advertised and KC's isn't nearly on par with Philly/Dal/NYG)[/quote]

I'm not down with this potential trade but Denver is just as intense about their team as we are. Denver might even be tougher for a Qb to play cause he's always going to have Elway's shadow lurking over him.

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=Mattyk72;541836]Never? I'm not even sold on him being a true franchise QB yet. Let's not pencil him into the Hall already.

As far as who could be available who knows? Did anyone see Cutler becoming available?[/quote]

Seriously, he's 17-20 as a starter and he throws a ton of picks...what Franchise QB would that be?

Re: Broncos to trade Cutler
 

[quote=skinsfan69;541842]I'm not down with this potential trade but Denver is just as intense about their team as we are. Denver might even be tougher for a Qb to play cause he's always going to have Elway's shadow lurking over him.[/quote]

I guess, but he came out and said he has a stronger arm than Elway. That, coupled with this BS makes me think he can't handle being a starter unless everyone in the local media coddles him.