Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;803766]I might would agree with you, but you are missing one key point. Three different QBs played that same season and all had the same results. Tells me it wasn't the QB spot.[/quote]

But he was the worst of the 3.

I don't think he'd be awful, just nothing great.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803769]But he was the worst of the 3.

I don't think he'd be awful, just nothing great.[/quote]

..but he was also the rookie out of the 3. That's why you don't start rookies on bad squads like that. Again, let the guy have a chance. If he can't beat out the competition in training camp, we'll know what the deal is then.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;803770]..but he was also the rookie out of the 3. That's why you don't start rookies on bad squads like that. Again, let the guy have a chance. If he can't beat out the competition in training camp, we'll know what the deal is then.[/quote]

I'm totally for giving him a chance. Never said I wasn't

And again, I'd be totally thrilled with being wrong about him if he's our starting QB.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Hey, Beck beat out Bartel.

Not sure why that matters, but there were a lot of Richard-lovers here last preseason.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803768]Uh I don't actually. Probably that other Mormon...Maake

note: I don't have any problem with Mormons, so don't get it twisted[/quote]

I sort of remember some guy named London Fletcher you expressed mixed emotion about, our leading tackler the last three years. :cool-smil

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;803775]I sort of remember some guy named London Fletcher you expressed mixed emotion about, our leading tackler the last three years. :cool-smil[/quote]

Umm....errr...um...I didn't want us to sign London Fletcher-Baker. London Fletcher I was totally cool with :)

To be fair though, after Trotter, Michael Barrow, and Jessie Armstead I didn't think luck was on our side with veteran linebackers

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803783]Umm....errr...um...I didn't want us to sign London Fletcher-Baker. London Fletcher I was totally cool with :)

To be fair though, after Trotter, Michael Barrow, and Jessie Armstead I didn't think luck was on our side with veteran linebackers[/quote]

My faith in your assertions has in no way waned :) We won't hesitate to remind each other about the finality of one/John Beck.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Their paths were much different, but I always think of guys like Tommy Maddox & Kurt Warner that became good nfl starters late in their careers. It could be that Beck is for various reasons putting it all together later in his career.

At the same time, we wouldn't be having this discussion about him if he & Shanny never said anything recently. We'd probably assume that he would go into the season competing for #2 & they would look to re-sign rexy as starter. That may still be the case but the public statements have drawn a lot of attention from skins fans & media. Beck has no had his name mentioned this much in his career.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Wow, 33 pages devoted to guessing who will fill one position.
When the player is finally revealed there will be much rejoicing and or teeth gnashing.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;803792]Wow, 33 pages devoted to guessing who will fill one position.
When the player is finally revealed there will be much rejoicing and or teeth gnashing.[/quote]

Sounds like someone has been reading Revelations. :D

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803783]Umm....errr...um...I didn't want us to sign London Fletcher-Baker. London Fletcher I was totally cool with :)

To be fair though, after Trotter, Michael Barrow, and Jessie Armstead I didn't think luck was on our side with veteran linebackers[/quote]

You also told us to not freak out over the Zorn hiring and the drafting of Thomas, Kelly, Davis? What happened to blind optimism and giving people a chance. Are you out of chances for talented but unproven risk or do you just hate old people?
:FIREdevil

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;803837]You also told us to not freak out over the Zorn hiring and the drafting of Thomas, Kelly, Davis? What happened to blind optimism and giving people a chance. Are you out of chances for talented but unproven risk or do you just hate old people?
:FIREdevil[/quote]

I thought I was pretty so-so on Zorn. And I still have faith in Kelly and Davis

But you shouldn't freak out over any of these things regardless

I did tell you to get excited about Torain though

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803838]I thought I was pretty so-so on Zorn. And I still have faith in Kelly and Davis

[B]But you shouldn't freak out over any of these things regardless
[/B]
I did tell you to get excited about Torain though[/quote]

No freak outs fun.....lead to chaos....Dirtbag like chaos. Panic leads to riots....riots lead to free stuff....whoa I'm sorry I don't know what got into me there.

All right well since you told me to get excited about Torrain I will tell you to get excited about a player that people may not be onto yet. Ryan Kerrigan, a young kid from Purdue with a great motor and lots of potential. I'm telling you not a lot of people in Redskin Nation are talking about this guy but I just have a feeling he's going to be good. He may even start one day. See I can find hidden gems as well :D

Beck....well damnit I wish I could show you guys but I'm having framerate issues with my computer. In the meantime have to convert HUGE MP4 files to Avi. Though part of me thinks that showing the "tape" will freak people out more.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Courtesy of Hernia Recovery. Cardinals game on the way.
[YT]G-OVflLY7hg[/YT]

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Very few poeple outside of Skinsland think the Shannys are really going to go with Beck, and I have to concur. I can't see Beck being anything other than a fanciful project for the Shanahan's. You can say all you want about Kurt Warner, but that kind of stuff only happens once in a generation at best. I still say we go for Palmer, or Alex Smith at the very least. You will have to have at least another vet in there to go to if Beck is a flop and Rexy sucks. It is too bad things are the way they are with Donovan. If these newbie receivers make the team and can contribute he can get his groove back.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Cardinals game is up. I intend to do Grossman's week 15, 16, an 17 games but it's much easier to do the 33 snaps that Beck did during preseason rather then the 130+ snaps Grossman did this year so it'll probably take some time to finish all three games.
[YT]B17arflJp9Y[/YT]

Also heres the Jets game.
[YT]G-OVflLY7hg[/YT]

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

DB59-I used to have those games on DVR'd but I erased them already, so nice work posting.

Quick thoughts on Beck from the Jets game:

o quick, light feet; has very smooth footwork in his drop backs and can set-up and get to a throwing position quickly

o can move a little bit

o has a quick throwing motion and a compact delivery but he has 3/4/side armish throwing motion (which make his release shorter which makes him throw shorter then his height)

Throws I like:
@ 1:36 only a 5-6 yard hitch Roydell Williams vs Cromartie; accurate throw into a tight window but what I liked most was the velocity, the ball got there in a hurry. It shoes he can throw hard when he needs too.

@ 2:18 another velocity throw-from the about the 25 yard line to the goaline on a rope;
this throw is all about arm strength

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

He actually looks sharp, and I enjoy his quick release. He actually looks quicker on his feet then Mcnabb did.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

The thing that continues to worry me is that deep ball. We'll see this preseason (assuming there is one) if last preseason was simply him not knowing the timing on the deeper routes or simply a case of Beck being a guy that isn't good enough to be a starting QB.

PS - 30 you need to be more specific about which Cromartie. I was watching the Cardinals footage looking for DRC, and who cares if you wrote Jets, it still doesn't explain your inattention to detail :D

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Thanks Dirtbag for those!! I'd rather have Beck than McNabb any day of the week. Quick release, good mobility and accurate.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

NC please tell me you'd rather have JB at this stage of their careers right?

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;803895]Thanks Dirtbag for those!! I'd rather have Beck than McNabb any day of the week. Quick release, good mobility and accurate.[/quote]

The kid has some potential. I do have some concerns about his height, at 6' 2" the deficiency will cause problems for him at times. Clear passing lanes will be essential for him in the down field passing game, especially when throwing from the pocket.....really interested in seeing how well he develops if/when he's given the opportunity.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;803888]

PS - 30 you need to be more specific about which Cromartie. I was watching the Cardinals footage looking for DRC, and who cares if you wrote Jets, it still doesn't explain your inattention to detail :D[/quote]lol what?

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;803888]The thing that continues to worry me is that deep ball. We'll see this preseason (assuming there is one) if last preseason was simply him not knowing the timing on the deeper routes or simply a case of Beck being a guy that isn't good enough to be a starting QB.[/quote]I'm not very concerned about his deep ball.
(If you watch the BYU clips it seem all he did was throw bombs)

My main concerns are:
o throwing height
o inconsistent mechanics/variety of throwing platforms
o velocity to make the stick throws

He's only 6'2 and, unlike Drew Brees, Beck has a low release point
One reason why Brees is successful despite being 6' is he has a classic over the shoulder throwing motion with a high release point that makes him throw taller then his height Beck is the opposite.
Low release point, makes him shorter.
Will it be an issue? Who knows?

He's kinda like Romo and McCoy that he can throw/release the ball from different angles and from different platforms.
But, it makes his mechanics seem inconsistent, will the ball always go where he wants?

Velocity, I see hints of it but I want to see more.
[quote]PS - 30 you need to be more specific about which Cromartie. I was watching the Cardinals footage looking for DRC, and who cares if you wrote Jets, it still doesn't explain your inattention to detail :D[/quote]Eh?
Just how many pills are you taking post surgey?
You may want to cut back or take more because they're making you loopy.
The [I][B][U]Jets[/U][/B][/I] have [I]Cromatie[/I] not [I]Rogers-Cromartie[/I], last names are there for a reason my friend.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

All I see from Beck is a dude who craps his pants every time he needs to let a play develop downfield.

He is real accurate on dump-offs and check-downs and otherwise he kind of looks like he is auditioning for the next "Happy Feet" movie.

Hope he proves me wrong, but I think this guy's upside is a mediocre, passable, serviceable, random flashes of brilliance kind of a player.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;803897]NC please tell me you'd rather have JB at this stage of their careers right?[/quote]

In this offense, I'd rather have Beck now than McNabb in his prime. MS's offense dictates accuracy to be able to move the chains, and McNabb has proven his entire career that he isn't accurate. I don't think McNabb would have been the same QB (stat wise) had he been in a offense that needed more accurate throws. He could get away with that in Andy Reid's offense because he's dumping it to RBs a good portion of the time. Even then, the guy still didn't sustain drives when they counted. Probably why they only went to the Super Bowl just once in his career.


Just my personal opinion. I've never been thrilled about the great athlete that happens to play the QB spot.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=tryfuhl;803901]lol what?[/quote]

Exactly, that guy you quoted is stupid. Actually to explain I didn't read the part where 30Gut cited the game he was watching and for a moment forgot there was another Cromartie besides DRC so I spent a minute looking for the throw that I eventually remembered was in the Jets game against Antonio Cromartie, not his long lost cousine Rodgers-Cromartie.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/john-becks-mullet-a-photo-retrospective/2011/05/19/AFi4aD7G_blog.html]John Beck’s mullet: a photo retrospective - DC Sports Bog - The Washington Post[/url]

By the way does anyone have a recent picture of Beck. Steinberg alleges that Beck shaved off the mullet which I believe really hurts his chances of starting.

[quote=NC_Skins;803895]Thanks Dirtbag for those!! I'd rather have Beck than McNabb any day of the week. Quick release, good mobility and accurate.[/quote]

No problem

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;803875]Cardinals game is up. I intend to do Grossman's week 15, 16, an 17 games but it's much easier to do the 33 snaps that Beck did during preseason rather then the 130+ snaps Grossman did this year so it'll probably take some time to finish all three games.
[YT]B17arflJp9Y[/YT]

Also heres the Jets game.
[YT]G-OVflLY7hg[/YT][/quote]

I was pretty impressed with Beck in those two preseason games. He had only been with team 12 days, when he played the Jets. Another thing I liked was Erik Cook's Performance. Maybe the big Tuna was just a realy bad fit for him.

Check this out, every body loved this guy:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MflFK7Q0o9E&feature=related]YouTube - ‪John Beck draft day‬‏[/ame]

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Thanks for the vids, Dirt. 1:42 into the Cards game and I believe that the "timing" quarterback label to be very fitting for him.

And he has an arm. He can, with little apparent effort, toss one 50+ yards easily. Noodle arm my ass, he has a gun.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;803972]I was pretty impressed with Beck in those two preseason games. He had only been with team 12 days, when he played the Jets. Another thing I liked was [B]Erik Cook's [/B]Performance. Maybe the big Tuna was just a realy bad fit for him.
[/quote]

Cook and Austin were definitely preseason heroes. Capers wasn't to bad either. Personally I would love to see Cook win the starting Center job. Also Kory L didn't look to bad either this past year but then again he plays the easiest position on the line. Though I'm not sure that pairing a tall center (Cook) with a short QB (Grossman) and another QB whose throwing motion makes him play short (Beck) is the best idea.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;803982]Thanks for the vids, Dirt. 1:42 into the Cards game and I believe that the "timing" quarterback label to be very fitting for him.

And he has an arm. He can, with little apparent effort, toss one 50+ yards easily. Noodle arm my ass, he has a gun.[/quote]

No prob. Also for anyone who cares I recently started the Jacksonville game for Grossman but my computer is acting up. Takes over 10 seconds for it to play a part of the video before I can cut it when it should take less then 1 second. Might have to move it to a different computer. If I recall I only got midway through the second Quarter with the Jax game.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;803984]Cook and Austin were definitely preseason heroes. Capers wasn't to bad either. Personally I would love to see Cook win the starting Center job. Also Kory L didn't look to bad either this past year but then again he plays the easiest position on the line. Then again I'm not sure that pairing a tall center with a short QB and another QB whose throwing motion makes him play short is the best idea.[/quote]
Yeah, we thought we were looking at the all crap team and Kory and Will turned out to be decent starters. Selvish had allot of the athletic abilities, but was very weak. Hopefully, he has been in the weight room and can earn a spot on the roster this year.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;803987]Yeah, we thought we were looking at the all crap team and [B]Kory and Will turned out to be decent starters.[/B] Selvish had allot of the athletic abilities, but was very weak. Hopefully, he has been in the weight room and can earn a spot on the roster this year.[/quote]

The only thing I can't get over is how we gave up so many sacks. As I said before it was an improvement over last year given we went up 16 spots in the attempt rankings while still giving up the same number of sacks.

However I don't get how Houston allowed only 25 with a similar number of pass attempts as they don't exactly have marquee names outside of their tackles (and even then Winston and Brown aren't that well known). In fact even more frustrating is the possibility that we might have more skill and talent then the Houston O-Line.

At the very least the yards were there. The red zone numbers however were not. I guess we're like Green Bay in that we'll have to accept the idea that maybe we just give up a lot of sacks. What might be more sobering is the red zone percentage after being 8th in pass yardage. Hopefully someone like Beck can be what we need given that he's more accurate then Rex and Young with a quicker release

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;803989]The only thing I can't get over is how we gave up so many sacks. As I said before it was an improvement over last year given we went up 16 spots in the attempt rankings while still giving up the same number of sacks.

However I don't get how Houston allowed only 25 with a similar number of pass attempts as they don't exactly have marquee names outside of their tackles (and even then Winston and Brown aren't that well known). In fact even more frustrating is the possibility that we might have more skill and talent then the Houston O-Line.

At the very least the yards were there. The red zone numbers however were not. I guess we're like Green Bay in that we'll have to accept the idea that maybe we just give up a lot of sacks. What might be more sobering is the red zone percentage after being 8th in pass yardage. Hopefully someone like Beck can be what we need given that he's more accurate then Rex and Young with a quicker release[/quote]


Once they got Will and Kory in there and Jamal was healthy, they started getting better every game. I am getting pretty excited about Beck. I almost cried when we passed on Gabbert. I actually had a headache it upset me so bad. But, as I do every year, I convince myself that we did the right thing. Anyway, hearing Jaws brag how good Beck is, got me excited. Those two preseason games showed me nothing that I did not like about Beck. Now we need to get this lock out stuff over with.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

You guys are trying to make me jump on the Beckwagon. But I can't...not yet

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803997]You guys are trying to make me jump on the Beckwagon. But I can't...not yet[/quote]

Free drugs for anyone smart enough to jump on. Well technically only the first ones free.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;803699]You are using the "Pro-bowl" as your proof he's good?

[url=http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=0011&statisticPositionCategory=QUARTERBACK&season=2009&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=1&qualified=true&Submit=Go]NFL Stats: by Player Position[/url]

I challenge you to look through the years starting with 2006 and see where he ranks (in AFC alone) in terms of QB. He's not even remotely close to the other QBs. Hell, Garrard is a better QB than Young. The only way he got into the Pro-Bowl is if Brady, Rivers, Manning, Palmer, Garrard, etc decline the Pro-bowl invite. As far as that record goes, sure that had nothing to do with a top notch defense and a guy who rushes for 2,000 yards. Nope. Fischer nor Chow wanted to draft Young at the time. You can thank Bud Adams for that fiasco.

Also, that Rookie of the Year crap was a sham.


[B]51.5 completion %, 12 TDs, 13 Ints, 2199 yards, 66.7 QB rating[/B]
....compared to this rookies numbers

941 yards rushing, 5.7 avg, 15 TDs, 46 receptions, 436 yards receiving


Now who do you think deserved Rookie of the Year? I"m going with Maurice Jones Drew. Stop buying the smoke they are blowing up your ass. It's all hype.[/quote]

Please add:

553 yds rushing, 7 TD's rushing, 31 First downs rushing

Total Offense from VY in 2006 (15 games):

2751 yards, 19 TD's, 13 INT's, 2 lost fumbles

FYI: Started off 0-4 as starter his rookie season (missed third game), finished 8-3 the last 11 games of rookie year.

Thus, Rookie of the Year.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81ff9d74/article/shanahan-has-no-clearcut-choice-in-qb-dilemma?module=HP_cp2]NFL.com news: Shanahan has no clear-cut choice in QB dilemma[/url]

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

I'll say this now, I'm fine with us giving Beck a chance. We always say that we want to give people a chance to learn and come up -- here it is. Not exactly building from within. However we got a guy for a relatively low price and he may give us a shot. I would like to see us give him a chance. I'd be okay giving Grossman the reigns as well. Let them fight it out. Just don't do the typical skins move and go try to get a big name QB.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;804131][url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81ff9d74/article/shanahan-has-no-clearcut-choice-in-qb-dilemma?module=HP_cp2]NFL.com news: Shanahan has no clear-cut choice in QB dilemma[/url][/quote]

Nice of NFL.com to give us such a nice in depth feature even if it's slightly terrifying.