Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;848516]I was pushing for Beck in the offseason b/c I felt like we knew Grossman's limitations and that we had a large enough sample size that we knew he was going to cost us some games. Many people made the same argument.

Many people pushed for Grossman b/c they felt Beck has had ample opportunity to show he could start but he failed to take the job in his prior stops or even show enough to rate as a good solid number 2 guy and that, based on his inability, he simple could not succeed as a QB.

My fear is that both arguments were 100% right. We've already seen that the Rex dissenters were pretty damn close to right on.[/quote]

Basically, this.

Beck needs to be given his shot, basically because RG did nothing with his. He didn't prove that he could get past his interception-laden past. He didn't prove he could provide enough mobility and confidence to run a KS designed offense. He didn't prove that he could raise our per game points total. So, we move on.

Now Beck needs to prove that he can lead a team. Make throws accurately (his first time in didn't look that good, but man, would we be saying that if Stallworth made that one catch?). And he needs to say he can win when a team studies him.

All that aside, I think MS and BA have given us a team where a solid young qb can come in and make huge strides. We have a defense that doesn't give up, and doesn't give away points, opponents have to earn everything first down, and every point. We have enough of a running threat that IF a qb can keep the box from being stacked, we can move the football on the ground, and we have a young group of receivers in AA, TAustin, and Gaffney, that can give a young qb some solid targets. (Santana too if he sticks around).

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Beck and Grossman are irellavant and will be irrelevant next year unless we go with another placeholder while our new QB gets an edjumakation.
Sadly, this is just a practice year for the whole team.
If we end up in the middle of the pack in the first round of the draft next year we are going to have to give up some high picks to get someone like Landry Jones.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Even if we ignore the fact that Beck has not started since 2007 and wasn't expecting to be thrown into the fire this week and had not practiced with the first team...he played GREAT. If Stallworth and Gaffney had both caught those two well-thrown, perfectly catchable deep passes from Beck, he'd be 10-15 with what, close to 180 yards and 2 TDs, with one on the ground and one in the air. Also, we could have come back to tie the game if not for the Carlos Rogers impersonations on offense.

Beck looks more poised, more mobile, more accurate, smarter in decision-making, less-flustered under pressure...light years ahead of Grossman. I really believe the reason Rex got he job was his 3 years' experience in the offense. However, his tenure makes the types of mistakes he's making even less acceptable. He should know better. He's making blunders we couldn't accept for a rookie who missed training camp. He fumbles when hit constantly. He throws into triple-coverage regularly. Yes, he has good games, but he has the same number of absolutely disastrous games. I was willing to put up with his weekly 1 fumble and 1 pick...but yesterday is just completely ridiculous and we all know this wasn't an anomaly...Rex can and likely will have more games like this if left in for 16 games.

Beck must start. I wanted him going into Week 1. I was dreading the game when "Bad Rex" appears...well, it happened. This is a game we should have easily won and we nearly did, but Rex dug a hole so deep, no one could come in and pull us out of it. However, Beck almost did in just 2 drives if the WRs could have done their job.

Even if Beck isn't a dynamic, big-play QB...he'll never be THAT bad.

Our offense STILL have given up the fewest points in the NFC and it's not even close...83 points, second is San Fran with 97 and everyone else is over 100. Only Baltimore has given up fewer points in the whole league. Our D held Vick, Jackson, Maclin and McCoy to 20 points even WITH GROSSMAN'S FOUR INTERCEPTIONS. He was practically handing them points and the D still did not let the game get away. We will have a great season and still challenge for the division title if we play Beck and the running game has the success it is capable of. Our D is currently ranked 6th in the NFL and we've played some tough teams.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

For as much shit as I've given Grossman lately, the receivers/te's/backs didn't help him out yesterday. Inconsistency was the order of the day as far as our pass catchers played. Still though, Grossman is not one of those qb's who can sling it into double or triple coverage, and that's what he did.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

There is no way you can blame his INTs yesterday on the receivers. He threw the ball directly into the defenders' hands/chests...sometimes without a Redskins receiver even in the vicinity.

Now, we can make a case that Stallworth and Gaffney let Beck down...they dropped easy ones from him for big gains/TDs.

His only ugly throw that I remember was the rollout/pass back across the field to Torain. It hit the ground and was nowhere near an Eagle. You gotta expect some rust from not playing since 2007, but he looks GREAT to me.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

I'd be curious to see that INT following Hall's interception again. Or hear what was said about it. But it looked like he expected Davis to curl in. Someone messed up there

To me still one of the worst throws was the short pass to Cooley

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;848714]I'd be curious to see that INT following Hall's interception again. Or hear what was said about it. But it looked like he expected Davis to curl in. Someone messed up there

To me still one of the worst throws was the short pass to Cooley[/quote]
After the game yesterday , Davis said that he was supposed to cross the safeties face , and messed up ...... maybe he just said that to save his QB from more grief ?

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;848714]I'd be curious to see that INT following Hall's interception again. Or hear what was said about it. But it looked like he expected Davis to curl in. Someone messed up there

To me still one of the worst throws was the short pass to Cooley[/quote]

I bet Chris agrees. Gone for 6 weeks after that one.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=budw38;848717]After the game yesterday , Davis said that he was supposed to cross the safeties face , and messed up ...... maybe he just said that to save his QB from more grief ?[/quote]

Well it matches up with what I heard someone else say (off the record), but I wasn't sure if anything more was said about it.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Even Rex's best play, the flea flicker completion...was thrown into triple coverage. Bad decision...luckily it was a rare perfect pass from him.

If he had played the 4th quarter, we would have witnessed a 5 or 6 INT game.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;848279]Everyone acts like drafting a QB next year makes us a legit team lmao u guys do realize besides Luck all the others are a crap shoot[/quote]

So it doesn't stand out from any other class other than having a sure thing?

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;848714]I'd be curious to see that INT following Hall's interception again. Or hear what was said about it. But it looked like he expected Davis to curl in. Someone messed up there

To me still one of the worst throws was the short pass to Cooley[/quote]

I read where Davis took the blame for 2 of rex's interceptions,that it was on him,not Rex.Still if you take those 2 away,that still leaves 2 too many

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Monkeydad;848711][B]There is no way you can blame his INTs yesterday on the receivers. [/B]He threw the ball directly into the defenders' hands/chests...sometimes without a Redskins receiver even in the vicinity.

Now, we can make a case that Stallworth and Gaffney let Beck down...they dropped easy ones from him for big gains/TDs.

His only ugly throw that I remember was the rollout/pass back across the field to Torain. It hit the ground and was nowhere near an Eagle. You gotta expect some rust from not playing since 2007, but he looks GREAT to me.[/quote]

Rex's first INT could have been prevented if Fred Davis had made greater effort to catch the ball at its highest point. Davis kept that ball from being a touchdown.

I'm not absolving Rex. He obviously had several other really ghastly throws.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=htownskinfan;848733]I read where Davis took the blame for 2 of rex's interceptions,that it was on him,not Rex.Still if you take those 2 away,that still leaves 2 too many[/quote]

It's weird to me that Beck came into the same game, with those same recievers, when that same defense KNEW we had to pass the ball, and didn't throw into coverage one single time.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Look. The guy threw 4 INTs. That makes 9 in the past FOUR games, and he should have at least 11 if not for some ridiculous Carlos Rogers-esque drops. Those that are arguing about who is responsible for what interception are missing the point, the bottom line. He is the field general, the signal caller, the top guy. He is the last person to touch the ball before it lands in a defenders hands, period. Why do we never hear about other teams quarterbacks and who is responsible for their interceptions? Probably because the rest of their play is up to snuff, at least to overlook a few missteps and chalk it up to a learning experience. If history is any indicator at ALL, this is not the case with rex grossman, period. This guy stays on the roster only because of the fact that we need bodies in case our other quarterback goes down in case of an injury. We have BARELY gotten by several talent challenged teams and eeked out our wins. This has to stop now.


The Washington Redskins have enough to contend with within their own conference, rather than having to fight out of every horrible situation that Rex Grossman puts them in every game. You can't go into a boxing match with handcuffs and a blindfold on, and that is what we are doing when we go into a game with Rex grossman behind center.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Mechanix544;848740]Look. The guy threw 4 INTs. That makes 9 in the past FOUR games, and he should have at least 11 if not for some ridiculous Carlos Rogers-esque drops. Those that are arguing about who is responsible for what interception are missing the point, the bottom line. He is the field general, the signal caller, the top guy. He is the last person to touch the ball before it lands in a defenders hands, period. [B]Why do we never hear about other teams quarterbacks and who is responsible for their interceptions?[/B] Probably because the rest of their play is up to snuff, at least to overlook a few missteps and chalk it up to a learning experience. If history is any indicator at ALL, this is not the case with rex grossman, period. This guy stays on the roster only because of the fact that we need bodies in case our other quarterback goes down in case of an injury. We have BARELY gotten by several talent challenged teams and eeked out our wins. This has to stop now.


The Washington Redskins have enough to contend with within their own conference, rather than having to fight out of every horrible situation that Rex Grossman puts them in every game. You can't go into a boxing match with handcuffs and a blindfold on, and that is what we are doing when we go into a game with Rex grossman behind center.[/quote]

Because it's a Redskins message board, not a Jaguars message board.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

After listening to Shanahan's presser today, I get the feeling Rex is going to be our starting QB on Sunday.. Just my opinion.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Brody81;848742]After listening to Shanahan's presser today, I get the feeling Rex is going to be our starting QB on Sunday.. Just my opinion.[/quote]

Wouldn't shock me, but I didn't necessarily get that same impression

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;848741]Because it's a Redskins message board, not a Jaguars message board.[/quote]
nah, its prolly cause most teams' quarterbacks' dont have to erroneously find somewhere to place the blame when their qb throws 9 INTs in just under 15 quarters.

I know this for sure, I am so tired of seeing over half the teams in this league have competent qb play, and our quarterback is doing everything in his power for us to LOSE the game. its time we take the noose (Rex Grossman) from around our neck, and play football.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;848747]Wouldn't shock me, but I didn't necessarily get that same impression[/quote]

I don't know man... I wasn't really thrilled when I heard Shanahan say that he and Elway dealt with a few 5 INT days in their time together.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

If rex starts Sunday I will be pissed

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

We'll have to agree to disagree then. Look, I get it. We all hate Sexy Rexy 'cause he blue balled our offense (see what I did there) and he unquestionably made some horrible decisions and was, more than anyone else, responsible for our loss yesterday. And as the QB he's going to get the majority of the blame (along with his past history), but he often didn't get help. And if you go around the league, there isn't any QB who is 100% responsible for all his interceptions. It's just not possible.

I'm disappointed in Grossman, absolutely. I thought his inconsistency was perhaps finally resolved. I thought after two years in this offense he was ready to have a solid, if not special year. If Beck is the starter, though I have my doubts about him, I will fully support him and hope he plays well. I'm not going to wish him a poor performance just to be right.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Originally Posted by Mechanix544
Look. The guy threw 4 INTs. That makes 9 in the past FOUR games, 11 turnovers in the last 5 games overall and he should have at least 13-14 if not for some ridiculous Carlos Rogers-esque drops. Those that are arguing about who is responsible for what interception are missing the point, the bottom line. He is the field general, the signal caller, the top guy. He is the last person to touch the ball before it lands in a defenders hands, period. Why do we never hear about other teams quarterbacks and who is responsible for their interceptions? Probably because the rest of their play is up to snuff, at least to overlook a few missteps and chalk it up to a learning experience. If history is any indicator at ALL, this is not the case with rex grossman, period. This guy stays on the roster only because of the fact that we need bodies in case our other quarterback goes down in case of an injury. We have BARELY gotten by several talent challenged teams and eeked out our wins. This has to stop now.


The Washington Redskins have enough to contend with within their own conference, rather than having to fight out of every horrible situation that Rex Grossman puts them in every game. You can't go into a boxing match with handcuffs and a blindfold on, and that is what we are doing when we go into a game with Rex grossman behind center.
[quote=SmootSmack;848741]Because it's a Redskins message board, not a Jaguars message board.[/quote]

True, Im sure the Jaguar message board is blowing up about the way their ROOKIE quarterback has thrown 2 interceptions in 5 games. edit... (sorry, he's played 6)

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=GMScud;848750]I don't know man... I wasn't really thrilled when I heard Shanahan say that he and Elway dealt with a few 5 INT days in their time together.[/quote]

Yeah well Rex isnt Elway either.. If Beck doesn't start Sunday we lose I can see it now then the wheels may fall off

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

If Rex grossman is starting, I will not watch it. I just dont have the intestinal fortitude for it. I will patiently wait until John Beck is able to come in and HOPEFULLY give us a better performance.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=GMScud;848750]I don't know man... I wasn't really thrilled when I heard Shanahan say that he and Elway dealt with a few 5 INT days in their time together.[/quote]

I've kind of learned to not really ever pay much attention to what Shanahan says in a press conference. And maybe Rex starts and Beck finishes. Or maybe Rex starts and plays well...and then we're all pissed because we don't want to win, we just want Rex benched!! Seriously though, I don't think any clear decision has been made yet

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[url=http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-around-the-league/09000d5d82335412/Quarterback-question-marks?module=HP11_cp]NFL Videos: Quarterback question marks[/url]

Preach Joe

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

If Rex Grossman starts I will watch and hope we win

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;848765]If Rex Grossman starts I will watch and hope we win[/quote]

At the end of the day we have a winning record with him as our QB. I'd prefer to see John Beck after what we saw yesterday, but we're 3-2 with 11 games left, and we're going up against a 1-5 team (I know Carolina is scrappy, but still, 1-5).

The sky is nowhere close to falling.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

If Rex starts i'll vomit every time we throw the ball because ill be so nervous.

When Beck came in, the offense looked like a Shanny offense, and Beck kinda reminded me of Jake Plummer lol

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Rex should be benched for at least a game and we'll see what Beck does against NC.

That was a really derp performance by him. We looked like the Keystone Cops. Two of the INTs are entirely on him - he threw into coverage with no 'Skins in sight. He cost us the game more than the second biggest problem, which was a D that didn't wake up until they coughed up a huge lead.

We can't expect the D to keep us out of holes if our offense's QB is giving the opposing team's D the opportunity to help dig said hole, too.

He should have been benched after he choked up the ball in the Dallas game - when he looked behind him and SAW the defender coming and STILL did not protect the ball.

Bench his arse. Announce it on Wednesday that we're rolling the dice with Beck, see what happens with Cam and his horrid defense. Rex needs to be sat in the corner for crapping his pants...

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=GMScud;848768]At the end of the day we have a winning record with him as our QB. I'd prefer to see John Beck after what we saw yesterday, but we're 3-2 with 11 games left, and we're going up against a 1-5 team (I know Carolina is scrappy, but still, 1-5).

The sky is nowhere close to falling.[/quote]

Carolina is a very good 1-5 team if that makes since, and we struggle down there. I'm worried about them

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;848774]Carolina is a very good 1-5 team if that makes since, and we struggle down there. I'm worried about them[/quote]

I'm by no means writing off Carolina as a win. I don't think they're a pushover at all. But playing them after a loss like we had yesterday is a lot more palatable than taking on one of the next two opponents after Carolina - Buffalo and San Fran.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

I just think Grossman is what he is. A good back up that can bail you out for a game, two or three but nothing more. His track record speaks for itself.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=GMScud;848777]I'm by no means writing off Carolina as a win. I don't think they're a pushover at all. But playing them after a loss like we had yesterday is a lot more palatable than taking on one of the next two opponents after Carolina - Buffalo and San Fran.[/quote]

If we can bounce back and win I'll be good to go because I think we will beat Buffalo, infact I think the Bills are about to come down a bit

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;848781]I just think Grossman is what he is. A good back up that can bail you out for a game, two or three but nothing more. His track record speaks for itself.[/quote]

[url=http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=23&ved=0CEAQFjACOBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcwashington.com%2Fnews%2Fsports%2FSkins-QB-Controversy-Beck-or-Rex--131986368.html&ei=-rycTubEIuPV0QHypbGHCQ&usg=AFQjCNFNz7PqEJ9UgQIOlSfoxQZA1lJPeQ&sig2=DbrNDfa2TRc-0T6mA2MB1w]Skins QB Controversy: Beck or Rex? | NBC Washington[/url]

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Monkeydad;848711]There is no way you can blame his INTs yesterday on the receivers. He threw the ball directly into the defenders' hands/chests...sometimes without a Redskins receiver even in the vicinity.

Now, we can make a case that Stallworth and Gaffney let Beck down...they dropped easy ones from him for big gains/TDs.

His only ugly throw that I remember was the rollout/pass back across the field to Torain. It hit the ground and was nowhere near an Eagle. You gotta expect some rust from not playing since 2007, but he looks GREAT to me.[/quote]

No way, definitely not putting his ints on the receivers. FD could've tried harder on the first one to bring it in, but he was well covered and it never should've been thrown to him. And on the goalline one FD was supposed to cross the DB's face, but he didn't, but again he was well covered on that one too. So the blame can be spread around. And the Coleman pick on the sideline was just Grossman making a dumb throw. If you're going to throw it out of bounds, throw it out of bounds. Don't throw it near the boundary and hope that the db who's been reading you all day doesn't read you again and make a play. Grossman deserves to get benched, that's for sure. He's still inconsistent and still throws boneheaded ints. All I'm saying is that his offensive teammates didn't have consistent days either, and that hurts Grossman.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

tough game.. I'm torn to see how he bounces back, or not... or just start beck

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Mechanix544;848749]
I know this for sure, I am so tired of seeing over half the teams in this league have competent qb play, and our quarterback is doing everything in his power for us to LOSE the game. its time we take the noose (Rex Grossman) from around our neck, and play football.[/quote]

In all fairness, we [B]had [/B]competent, if boring and conservative QB play. The dude was doing pretty well in OAK up until this past week.

I know that probably zero actual Redskins fans said "you know who I'd like to be starting in 2011? REX F'N GROSSMAN, THAT'S WHO." With that said, when we had low-mistake, boring, dink-and-dunk quarterbacking, it was the same story: this guy sucks, get him out of here. /shrug

I hope I'm wrong but I fully expect to be hearing the same thing after Beck's mistakes cost us a game or two.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=dgack;848881]In all fairness, we [B]had [/B]competent, if boring and conservative QB play. The dude was doing pretty well in OAK up until this past week.

I know that probably zero actual Redskins fans said "you know who I'd like to be starting in 2011? REX F'N GROSSMAN, THAT'S WHO." With that said, when we had low-mistake, boring, dink-and-dunk quarterbacking, it was the same story: this guy sucks, get him out of here. /shrug

I hope I'm wrong but I fully expect to be hearing the same thing after Beck's mistakes cost us a game or two.[/quote]

Surely you can't be talking about, Jason "what sport is this again" Campbell. The problem with Campbell was not that he made poor throws, it's that he wouldn't throw it at all. Time and time again, if you put on the tape, you will see Campbell with that dear-in-the-headlights look on his face, all the while wide open receivers streaking down the field. He just didn't see them, because he would be too busy staring at Santana Moss from Snap to SACK.