Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=celts32;889801]I find it very hard to believe that an NFL team would re-neg on a handshake deal. That would make it very difficult for the rest of the league to ever deal with those executives & team in the future. Sounds almost like a career suicide move. If they do a handshake deal then it's done...[/quote]

I don't have access to the inner dealings of the NFL, but I'm sure someone more in the know (Smooth?) could provide knowledge of handshake deals that didn't happen.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

The Redskins shouldn't trade Brian Orakpo. What sense would that make? He just completed his third season in the NFL after two of which he made the pro bowl. He's a huge piece of the Redskins 3-4 defense and one of the reasons that the defense was much, much better in 2011 than it was in 2010. The Redskins have done an excellent job in building the front seven. The only weakness on the defense is in the secondary. LaRon Landry can't stay healthy. Although O.J. Atogwe was hurt most of last season also, he contributed heavily to the defense. Josh Wilson played sub par for most of last season, but really began to step up his game as the season closed out. DeAngelo Hall for the most part was a disappointment. He's the only player in the secondary that is worth trading away...

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;889813]The Redskins shouldn't trade Brian Orakpo. What sense would that make? He just completed his third season in the NFL after two of which he made the pro bowl. He's a huge piece of the Redskins 3-4 defense and one of the reasons that the defense was much, much better in 2011 than it was in 2010. The Redskins have done an excellent job in building the front seven. The only weakness on the defense is in the secondary. LaRon Landry can't stay healthy. Although O.J. Atogwe was hurt most of last season also, he contributed heavily to the defense. Josh Wilson played sub par for most of last season, but really began to step up his game as the season closed out. DeAngelo Hall for the most part was a disappointment. He's the only player in the secondary that is worth trading away...[/quote]

Very well said.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

Without too many other teams showing enough interest/ammo we may only need to get to #3 to pick RG3. Our best option IMO is not to make a deal now and get a feel for the true market value of the #2 pick. I would rather not give away next year's picks if at all possible.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

I don't understand how FA will affect RGIII's value in a negative way for the Rams. Let's assume that there are really 4 main qb's in play right now, 5 if you count Orton:

Manning, Flynn, Luck, RGIII, Orton

and easily 6 teams that are qb deficient:
Indy, Cleveland, Skins, Seattle, Miami, Arizona (although they aren't necessarily in for these four).

So at least one team will be the odd man out, and if Manning's physical/tryouts go less than perfect, you most likely have 2 teams that are still in need, now if Cleveland goes another way, than yes it reduces the bidding, but otherwise, if it's still Skins/Browns on near the beginning of the draft, then the bidding goes way back up.

I just don't see why the Rams would rush it, barring an over the top offer.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=mooby;889812]I don't have access to the inner dealings of the NFL, but I'm sure someone more in the know (Smooth?) could provide knowledge of handshake deals that didn't happen.[/quote]

Um there have been near handshake deals that didn't happen or at the very least didn't happen when or entirely as expected.

It's rare though.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;889820]Um there have been near handshake deals that didn't happen or at the very least didn't happen when or entirely as expected.

It's rare though.[/quote]

That's what I'm saying, just because it doesn't happen often doesn't mean it can't happen. I hope it doesn't happen, but I will get excited when it's confirmed that the #2 pick is officially ours.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

i also dont agree with trading orakpo just to recoup picks. i highly doubt theres anyone we could pick up that would equate orakpos value to this team. unless one of our backups is secretly a stud and i dont know about it - we need orakpo. if we trade away picks for griffin, and he's the guy the shanahans want, then i'm all for it... but id rather be aggressive in free agency this year than trade our only legit pro-bowler caliber player for unproven draft picks

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=Player_HTTR;889816]Without too many other teams showing enough interest/ammo we may only need to get to #3 to pick RG3. Our best option IMO is not to make a deal now and get a feel for the true market value of the #2 pick. I would rather not give away next year's picks if at all possible.[/quote]

Maybe it won't come down to next year's picks. Perhaps this year's 6th overall and 2nd round pick will be enough to move four spaces to 2nd overall in the draft. I can live with drafting RG3 2nd overall, and not drafting again until the third round. Besides, trading up to only the 3rd overall pick is risky. Although I believe Cleveland won't make a play to move up to #2 in the draft, it still gives them a position to pick in front of us and moving up to 3rd overall would be for nothing. It's better to move up to #2 to ensure we get the player we so desperately need.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=mooby;889822]That's what I'm saying, just because it doesn't happen often doesn't mean it can't happen. I hope it doesn't happen, but I will get excited when it's confirmed that the #2 pick is officially ours.[/quote]

When the bears failed to call in their draft day trade with the ravens, the ravens appealled to the league and asked to be awarded they extra pick they would have gotten in the deal. The league declined I think in part b/c the ravens still got the player they were targeting (j smith), the ravens could have called it in themselves instead of relying on the bears assurances they made it official and the bears did a decent mea culpa song and dance.

If a handshake deal with the terms are announced before March 13 and the deal isnt made official on March 13 and the rams accept another offer, i would be sure the skins would appeal and the league would enforce the trade or award the skins some serious comp picks.

I dont want to get rid of orakpo either, especially if we still have to give up considerable draft picks.

When we FINALLY moved him and kerrigan around and switched them up in the last game against the eagles, the results were instantanous. Orakpo may be a one trick rush the passer poney, but you need elite pass rushers. We just have to use him better, move him around.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;889824]Maybe it won't come down to next year's picks. Perhaps this year's 6th overall and 2nd round pick will be enough to move four spaces to 2nd overall in the draft. I can live with drafting RG3 2nd overall, and not drafting again until the third round. Besides, trading up to only the 3rd overall pick is risky. Although I believe Cleveland won't make a play to move up to #2 in the draft, it still gives them a position to pick in front of us and moving up to 3rd overall would be for nothing. It's better to move up to #2 to ensure we get the player we so desperately need.[/quote]
Minimum deal would be 1,2,3 this year, and 1st next year. Maybe even a player or more picks.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

how bout we trade this years 1st and 3rd, next years 1st, and jim haslett.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;889829]how bout we trade this years 1st and 3rd, next years 1st, and jim haslett.[/quote]

Well Haslett would fufill the veteran requirement of the Eli Standard, but I don't know, he's a little underweight to go back to Linebacker. Maybe we can pass him off as a safety.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;889824]Maybe it won't come down to next year's picks. Perhaps this year's 6th overall and 2nd round pick will be enough to move four spaces to 2nd overall in the draft. I can live with drafting RG3 2nd overall, and not drafting again until the third round. Besides, trading up to only the 3rd overall pick is risky. Although I believe Cleveland won't make a play to move up to #2 in the draft, it still gives them a position to pick in front of us and moving up to 3rd overall would be for nothing. It's better to move up to #2 to ensure we get the player we so desperately need.[/quote]

I agree I really don't want to trade to #3 to get RG3 but if its perceived we are willing too do so lowers the value of the Rams pick. I am just saying we need for the smoke grenade to finish going off before we rush through. Can that backfire, sure, but how much more would we loose having to assume the worst of all possible scenarios by making a deal now.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;889826]Minimum deal would be 1,2,3 this year, and 1st next year. Maybe even a player or more picks.[/quote]


I would not do that. Thats the rams dictating their initial offer, starting point. The rams have to move alil to the middle imo.

Id offer this years 1st, 3rd and 4th plus next years 2nd with the goal of eventually agreeing to this years 1st, 2nd and 3rd or this years 1st, 2nd, 5th and next years 2nd.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

I'd offer this years 1st,3rd and next years 1st. Thats it..

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;889840]I'd offer this years 1st,3rd and next years 1st. Thats it..[/quote]

And even that is generous.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=over the mountain;889838]I would not do that. Thats the rams dictating their initial offer, starting point. The rams have to move alil to the middle imo.

Id offer this years 1st, 3rd and 4th plus next years 2nd with the goal of eventually agreeing to this years 1st, 2nd and 3rd or this years 1st, 2nd, 5th and next years 2nd.[/quote]

Supposedly, that is already the offer we made. If that does not work for you, start looking at Matt Flynn, Kyle Orton, and Payton Manning. If thats your best offer, the question becomes how much would you pay for these guys and in what order. I've got a feeling, the guy that would play for Washington out of this bunch, is Kyle Orton. You decide. The way I see it, we canfill all our big holes in free agency, with our cap room. Hopefully, we dont give a player that we need, like Orakpo. If its a player, I hope its Cooley and or Santana Moss, but that wishfull thinking.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;889842]And even that is generous.[/quote]


I'd be willing to give it for Luck but I'm not as high on Griffin as some are around here. I think he's a really good player and athlete but I don't love his throwing motion and he somewhat reminds me of VY except he's a WAY better teammate and person.. On the field I just see similarities to Young.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;889849]I'd be willing to give it for Luck but I'm not as high on Griffin as some are around here. I think he's a really good player and athlete but I don't love his throwing motion and he somewhat reminds me of VY except he's a WAY better teammate and person.. On the field I just see similarities to Young.[/quote]

I couldn't agree more. Some of the best QB's in the history of the NFL have been pocket passers, Brady, Manning as examples in modern NFL.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;889848]Supposedly, that is already the offer we made. If that does not work for you, start looking at Matt Flynn, Kyle Orton, and Payton Manning. If thats your best offer, the question becomes how much would you pay for these guys and in what order. I've got a feeling, the guy that would play for Washington out of this bunch, is Kyle Orton. You decide. The way I see it, we canfill all our big holes in free agency, with our cap room. Hopefully, we dont give a player that we need, like Orakpo. If its a player, I hope its Cooley and or Santana Moss, but that wishfull thinking.[/quote]

I guess what im saying is i wouldnt make our first offer our best offer. Id stretch this out and make the rams give some kind of concession.

I think us being the front runner earlier is good b/c we get a better look into how the rams are approaching this thing and gauge their true settling point.

Offering what the rams want out of the gate and not giving negotiations a chance to come ot some middle ground is not ideal to me.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;889854]I couldn't agree more. Some of the best QB's in the history of the NFL have been pocket passers, Brady, Manning as examples in modern NFL.[/quote]


Watching RG play in person was a bad ass experience lol BUT Most of his throws that night were all just deep down the field. I want to see him throw the comeback on an accurate basis or the back shoulder etc.. Again that motion scares me

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=over the mountain;889856]I guess what im saying is i wouldnt make our first offer our best offer. Id stretch this out and make the rams give some kind of concession.

I think us being the front runner earlier is good b/c we get a better look into how the rams are approaching this thing and gauge their true settling point.

Offering what the rams want out of the gate and not giving negotiations a chance to come ot some middle ground is not ideal to me.[/quote]
If he turns out to be the next Tom Brady, Payton Manning, or even Micheal Vick, does it matter. Like I said if there were ever a year to go all in this would be the one.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=over the mountain;889856]I guess what im saying is i wouldnt make our first offer our best offer. Id stretch this out and make the rams give some kind of concession.

I think us being the front runner earlier is good b/c we get a better look into how the rams are approaching this thing and gauge their true settling point.

Offering what the rams want out of the gate and not giving negotiations a chance to come ot some middle ground is not ideal to me.[/quote]

Welcome back!

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;889849]I'd be willing to give it for Luck but I'm not as high on Griffin as some are around here. I think he's a really good player and athlete but I don't love his throwing motion and he somewhat reminds me of VY except he's a WAY better teammate and person.. On the field I just see similarities to Young.[/quote]

You know what, I feel the same way. I'm officially on board with giving up this year's 2nd and 3rd and next year's 1st. Any more than that, then Cleveland can have him. But I don't like that throwing motion either. Looks like a low release point. You see Brady, Manning, Brees, etc. and they release the ball high, whereas the ball seems to release around RGIII's helmet. But like I said, let's roll the dice and see what happens. Philip Rivers throws like a girl, but he gets it done.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=Ruhskins;889716]Given the wasted two years of the McNabb/Rex/Beck fiasco, I don't think MS can afford to gamble on these QBs as the 2012 starters.[/quote]

He's starting his 3rd year of a 5 yr contract. Perdonally I see him having 3 more seasons to get it right. and honestly I see the team getting better. As long as there is progress being shown I don't see MS/Allen going anywhere.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

Man these rumors really drown out any discussion about the QBs themselves.

o i hope the FO waits til all the pieces fall in place; the cost and the need to trade up to the 2nd spot decreases with each FA QB signing

o i don't believe Holmgren and the Brown's are willing to trade up to pick #2
i hope/expect our FO will conduct due diligence through a third party team and inquire/feel out whether the [I][B]Browns[/B][/I] would be willing to trade [I]their[/I] pick

o McNabb might have a point who knows? Maybe the McNabb debacle has taught Kyle how to better manage a veteran QB?
But one things is for damn sure: McNabb ain't in the same conversation as Peyton Manning

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=GreekSkin;889715]Just because he's extremely mobile it doesnt mean he's not gonna be able to deliver the ball from the pocket. He's already a better passer than Vick was at any time in Atlanta.[/quote]

and if RGIII is better and has no one to throw to or only a mediocre OL then all his talent in the world will be worth zippy. We'd be better off saving our picks and trying to pick up several players from FA and the draft vs. extending ouselves and getting a Corvette but no gas to drive it with.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

If we sign PM expect R Wayne to follow

[url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/02/28/mail/index.html?eref=twitter_feed]Peyton Manning, Reggie Wayne could keep connection going in new NFL city - Peter King - SI.com[/url]

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=tryfuhl;889720]Perhaps you're forgetting that Warner played at an elite level for awhile... Eli played elite in the clutch at the very least.. and Brees is borderline what? Amazing?

So you're content with a hot year or two.. only to wonder what we have a couple of years later... if we will consider the next guy being worth giving up on our guy for? Like the Browns this year? Maybe the only team that had a hot decade without the same QB or equal next guy would be well, us... and people will always bring up the shortened seasons that brought us two trophies... and sure Rypien was good for the third.. but today he is best known for having a [B]daughter in the lingerie football league...[/quote][/B]

Woow, I didn't know that. All I'm saying is you don't need a (young healthy) P.Manning to get to the SB and win it. If you have a good OL, good WR's, a good running game, and a half decent QB you can make it and win also. Everyone is acting like we have to have the best of the best to get there and give up whatever it takes to get it. I'm not buying the it.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

I swear, people say we have no talent on this team like we are out there with pop warner players every single week.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

Does the price really drop with each FA QB Signing though? Let's just say that at the moment the Browns are ready to try and get their next QB in FA with the draft as a back up. What if they don't get a QB they like in FA? One would think they would go all in on drafting a game changing QB.

Not saying this is true, but I don't think it's all that far fetched.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;889723]Curt Warner was a RB for Penn State in the early 80's. [B]Brees didn't come anywhere near borderline sucking as you say.[/B][/quote]

Maybe not but the Chargers apparently didn't see the need to keep him either. Remember he had a shoulder injury and they thought he was done. If I'm not mistaken.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=SBXVII;889886]and if RGIII is better and has no one to throw to or only a mediocre OL then all his talent in the world will be worth zippy. We'd be better off saving our picks and trying to pick up several players from FA and the draft vs. extending ouselves and getting a Corvette but no gas to drive it with.[/quote]

He'll have one of the top free agent WR's and possibly someone like Ben Grubbs up front. $47 million of cap space is a lot of money, if they find a bunch of Barry Cofield type players then they'll do fine.

By the way keep in mind that RGIII was winning games at Baylor. They weren't exactly bringing in 4 and 5 star recruits and their defense was non-existent all the while facing teams from Texas and Oklahoma that were loaded with 4 and 5 star recruits.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=SBXVII;889886]and if RGIII is better and has no one to throw to or only a mediocre OL then all his talent in the world will be worth zippy. We'd be better off saving our picks and trying to pick up several players from FA and the draft vs. extending ouselves and getting a Corvette but no gas to drive it with.[/quote]

There are WR's to be had in FA and just as teams have had success with lesser QB's teams have also had success with lesser receivers.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

How would each FA QB signing not impact the price of the number 2 pick? If Flynn goes to Cleveland, and Peyton goes to Miami, how could the Rams still demand what they are demanding?

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;889891]I swear, people say we have no talent on this team like we are out there with pop warner players every single week.[/quote]


Trent Williams- One of the best LT's in the NFL.
Brian Orakpo- Big Time OLB/Athlete
Kerrigan- See Orakpo
Fred Davis- Very good Pass catching TE
London Fletcher- Age is just a number to him
S.Moss- Yes he's old but still a dang good number 2
D.Hall- Hey say what u want but he's a ballhawk
LL- When healthy? One of the best Safeties in the league
D-Line- Very solid

So I do see some talent BUT The offensive side needs some serious help, I'm down With Helu/Royster combo but our WRs are not very good overall.. Now if HANK becomes what we hope? We will be just fine

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=SBXVII;889893]Maybe not but the Chargers apparently didn't see the need to keep him either. Remember he had a shoulder injury and they thought he was done. If I'm not mistaken.[/quote]They also put the franchise tag on him a year before when he was healthy.

That's the thought experiment I like: what if instead of using a pair of first round picks on Campbell and Rogers, what if Gibbs had signed Brees instead in 2005, and had to give up two first round picks to the Chargers? I doubt Brees would have become elite here and gone to the pro bowl every year, but I think he'd be widely regarded as the best QB the Redskins have had since Rypien.

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

Drew Brees has always been good but he is GREAT in N.O

Re: Yet Another QB Rumors Thread (Volume 9)
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;889897]How would each FA QB signing not impact the price of the number 2 pick? If Flynn goes to Cleveland, and Peyton goes to Miami, how could the Rams still demand what they are demanding?[/quote]

Of course it could but to my point. If the Browns end up with no one they may feel the pressure and offer more for the number 2 pick. If by all accounts you have lukewarm interest from the Browns to trade up and you have the Rams who want to make a deal before the start of FA you may be able to avoid selling the entire farm.

just another way to look at it.