Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/05/saints-gleason-expected-sean-pamphilon-to-keep-recordings-private/]Saints, Gleason expected Sean Pamphilon to keep recordings private | ProFootballTalk[/url]

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/05/sean-pamphilon-calls-gregg-williams-an-arrogant-coward/]Sean Pamphilon calls Gregg Williams an arrogant coward | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;907016]Who recorded GW? Btw that's a pussy move to do that[/quote]

Documentary film maker covering the Saints that year.

[quote]documentary filmmaker Sean Pamphilon, who directed the ESPN 30 for 30 film "Run Ricky Run," has released an audio recording that he says is a speech Williams gave to Saints defensive players the night before the team lost to the 49ers in a playoff game in January.[/quote]

Thanks guys. Geez I didn't know they were filming and he still said all that. Honestly I'm sure this talk happens in most locker rooms but it's not and excuse for a bounty

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

It may happen in a generic sort of sense - "I am going to hit him so hard he's gonna see stars." I would hope players aren't out there aiming at each others ACL's and goading each other on to take illegal head shots.

Still amazing to me how many, in the face of rising concussions and medical awareness as to what these guys do to their minds/bodies, want to encourage a culture of silence. "Pussy thing to do"? Even if it wasn't a documentary, I call BS on that. You want to exhort the team to hit hard, fine. You don't want to get caught calling on players to injure other players? Sorry, I am not okay with that.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=mooby;906971]Did you hear about Robert Griffin denying the Colts a workout? Craaaa-zy. :D[/quote]

Have you seen the new M&M commercial? Their sexy and they know it.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;907000]The real scandal was perpetrated by the Bengals. Poor kid. In high school and he's already peaked. What a terrible TERRIBLE thing to do to a hormone driven adolescence. The tears.....so difficult....to hold back.

[URL="http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/article/251027/6/Former-Cincinnati-Bengals-Cheerleader-Sarah-Jones-Pleads-Not-Guilty-to-Sex-Abuse"]Former Cincinnati Bengals Cheerleader Sarah Jones Pleads Not Guilty to Sex Abuse | firstcoastnews.com[/URL][/quote]

Wholey Moley. I could use some tutoring!

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;907034]It may happen in a generic sort of sense - "I am going to hit him so hard he's gonna see stars." I would hope players aren't out there aiming at each others ACL's and goading each other on to take illegal head shots.

Still amazing to me how many, in the face of rising concussions and medical awareness as to what these guys do to their minds/bodies, want to encourage a culture of silence. "Pussy thing to do"? Even if it wasn't a documentary, I call BS on that. You want to exhort the team to hit hard, fine. You don't want to get caught calling on players to injure other players? Sorry, I am not okay with that.[/quote]

Coaches are going to pump up their players any way they can. I don't have a problem with the foul language. I wouldn't have a problem if he simply pointed out recent injuries the players had as a referense to the teams weaknesses, but naming players and how to take them out is probably a bit much. Take our team for instance, you guys can't tell me you guys wouldn't be pissed if you saw the opponant taking cheap shots at our players? You'd be even more pissed if you found out later that a coach instructed them to hit those players on purpose. I have to imagine the 49ers fans are livid.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;907034]It may happen in a generic sort of sense - "I am going to hit him so hard he's gonna see stars." I would hope players aren't out there aiming at each others ACL's and goading each other on to take illegal head shots.

Still amazing to me how many, in the face of rising concussions and medical awareness as to what these guys do to their minds/bodies, want to encourage a culture of silence. "Pussy thing to do"? Even if it wasn't a documentary, I call BS on that. You want to exhort the team to hit hard, fine. You don't want to get caught calling on players to injure other players? Sorry, I am not okay with that.[/quote]

This.

And I don't buy that this is going on all around the league. Not to the same extent that GW took it. He clearly took it way over the line.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

Funny thing is the Niners offense was about as good as it was all year in that game...so maybe the Saints spent too much worried about trying to hurt someone instead of playing football

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

Sounds like it's back the bus over GW time

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/05/vitts-lawyer-accuses-gregg-williams-of-going-rogue/]Vitt’s lawyer accuses Gregg Williams of going rogue | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Mattyk;907050]Sounds like it's back the bus over GW time

[URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/05/vitts-lawyer-accuses-gregg-williams-of-going-rogue/"]Vitt’s lawyer accuses Gregg Williams of going rogue | ProFootballTalk[/URL][/quote]

Can't read the article but I am guessing it goes something like this.

Vitt's lawyer: We tried to get him to stop but he just wouldn't! Everytime we stood up to him he gave us the backhand and told us we better shut up before he puts bounties on us too! He's a monster!

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Mattyk;907050]Sounds like it's back the bus over GW time

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/05/vitts-lawyer-accuses-gregg-williams-of-going-rogue/]Vitt’s lawyer accuses Gregg Williams of going rogue | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]

I haven't heard the audio, just read some of the transcripts. Vitt's accusation that "Williams was a rogue coach", rings a little hollow to me.

Williams gave his little speech in front of a documentary crew. Did Vitt say something to him afterwards? Did Payton? If he was going "rogue" and you knew it, to whose attention did you bring it?

They aren't just backing the bus over GW, they are stopping and spinning the wheels in hopes of destroying all the evidence. I hope it is seen for what it is.

[As an aside on how well this tactic works - In WWII, after the failed July 20, 1944 assassination attempt of Hitler, one of the conspirators gathered up the leaders of the conspiracy, held a kangaroo court and had them all shot for treason to cover his tracks. Didn't work, he too was executed by Hitler].

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

I heard it on Limbaugh's show over lunch. You have to hear the audio, it's disgusting. You absolutely won't believe you're hearing what you are.

There's telling your guys to play hard and hit their star players hard, then there's what Gregg did. He named specific players and gave very specific instructions on how to take them out. He mentioned Crabtree and after calling him some profane names, instructed his players to aim for and tear his outside ACL. He mentioned that Kyle Williams (the fumbling punt returner) and said he's coming off a concussion and to hit him in the head to test it his doctors. Alex Smith...hit him in the head. Frank Gore, "Kill his head". Vernon Davis, it was either his ankles or knees.

It was sick to listen to. He researched the opposition's injuries and have specific instructions on how to hit them to severely injury them. Not even instructions, but orders.


What really disturbs me...I was among the vocal WP members and Skins fans who wanted him to be our HC after Gibbs. Don't lie, the majority of us wanted him to take over the team. Just knowing this guy was even on our staff once...ugh.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Monkeydad;907061]I heard it on Limbaugh's show over lunch. You have to hear the audio, it's disgusting. You absolutely won't believe you're hearing what you are.

There's telling your guys to play hard and hit their star players hard, then there's what Gregg did. He named specific players and gave very specific instructions on how to take them out. He mentioned Crabtree and after calling him some profane names, instructed his players to aim for and tear his outside ACL. He mentioned that Kyle Williams (the fumbling punt returner) and said he's coming off a concussion and to hit him in the head to test it his doctors. Alex Smith...hit him in the head. Frank Gore, "Kill his head". Vernon Davis, it was either his ankles or knees.

It was sick to listen to. He researched the opposition's injuries and have specific instructions on how to hit them to severely injury them. Not even instructions, but orders.


What really disturbs me...I was among the vocal WP members and Skins fans who wanted him to be our HC after Gibbs. Don't lie, the majority of us wanted him to take over the team. Just knowing this guy was even on our staff once...ugh.[/quote]

He's just trying to get his guys fired up. Did he go over the top? Yeah. I've heard a few former players come out and comment today, and they basically said..."no big deal, this kind of talk goes on all the time"...No big deal imo.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Monkeydad;907061]I heard it on Limbaugh's show over lunch. You have to hear the audio, it's disgusting. You absolutely won't believe you're hearing what you are.

There's telling your guys to play hard and hit their star players hard, then there's what Gregg did. He named specific players and gave very specific instructions on how to take them out. He mentioned Crabtree and after calling him some profane names, instructed his players to aim for and tear his outside ACL. He mentioned that Kyle Williams (the fumbling punt returner) and said he's coming off a concussion and to hit him in the head to test it his doctors. Alex Smith...hit him in the head. Frank Gore, "Kill his head". Vernon Davis, it was either his ankles or knees.

It was sick to listen to. He researched the opposition's injuries and have specific instructions on how to hit them to severely injury them. Not even instructions, but orders.


What really disturbs me...I was among the vocal WP members and Skins fans who wanted him to be our HC after Gibbs. Don't lie, the majority of us wanted him to take over the team. Just knowing this guy was even on our staff once...ugh.[/quote]

[url=http://theusof.com/]The United States of Football[/url]

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

I think it's another issue blown out of proportion by Goodell.
I believe this goes on with every team.
Maybe it isn't direct as what GW is doing for the Saints but it is happening on all team.
After the NFC Championship game, Devin Thomas publicly said that he knew Kyle Williams ( the guy who fumbled the game away) had concussions in the past and was trying to knock him out of the game.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

I don't get why the NFL doesn't adopt the NHL's injury policy in that teams are not forced to disclose injuries. Rather they just say upper or lower body to get the media something to work with.

I doubt Gregg Williams is the only active coach to explicitly target players with ailments.

There seems to be a misconception though that fans are bothered by the profanity. I've seen it on Twitter with a few former NFL players. I think it's safe to say that people are use to it especially if they've seen hard knocks. It's clear that the mention of specific injuries and the plan to target them is whats causing the utter sense of shock.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

No problem with the foul language, but talking about hitting Gore in the head, hitting him in the head while in the pile, etc., and taking out a guy's ACL? Way over the line. I honestly don't think the guy should ever coach in the league again.

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/05/michael-irvin-almost-threw-up-when-he-heard-gregg-williams-speech/]Michael Irvin “almost threw up” when he heard Gregg Williams speech | ProFootballTalk[/url]

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/05/49ers-whitner-thinks-williams-actions-were-really-disgusting/]49ers’ Whitner thinks Williams’ actions were “really disgusting” | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Yeah going after guys when you know they are hurting is nothing new. But when you tie in the fact that bounties were involved, it makes it a whole new game.

This BS about everyone is doing it is just that, BS.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

Agreed Matty.

Even if everyone [I]is[/I] doing it -- does that make it right? Does that make it less reprehensible?

Smootsmack said pages ago - reading some of the responses in this thread is just dispiriting.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

I was happy when he failed to get the Skins HC gig after Joe2. Mostly because I just think he's an egotistical.....dick. I had no idea he was the NFL's Marquis De Sade.......

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Mattyk;907105]No problem with the foul language, but talking about hitting Gore in the head, hitting him in the head while in the pile, etc., and taking out a guy's ACL? Way over the line. I honestly don't think the guy should ever coach in the league again.

Yeah going after guys when you know they are hurting is nothing new. But when you tie in the fact that bounties were involved, it makes it a whole new game.

This BS about everyone is doing it is just that, BS.[/quote]

I agree that deliberately taking out a guys knee or deliberately trying to concuss(helmet to helmet hit) a player is way out of line.

Testing a guy who is coming back from an ACL injury or trying to knock the crap out of a guy with concussion problems is fair game to me.

People are calling for GW to be banned for life but has anyone studied actual game film to see if the Saints tried to take out Crabtrees ACL or have film of a helmet to helmet hit on Kyle Williams?
Anyone interview those guys and ask them what they thought of the Saints play? What about the other Saints Opponents last year?

I think the tape shows GW going over the line trying to get his guys hyped and motivated for the game. All 26 defensive players know how to play the game and wouldn't intentionally risk a guys career on a cheep shot.

Guys like Darren Sharper and London Fletcher have said that GW is one of the best coaches they have ever played for. If GW was really after ending guys seasons/careers, I doubt a standup guy like Fletcher would feel that way about him.

Trying to knock a guy out is a part of the game whether you like it or not.



What was everyones initial reaction to Lavar Arrington Taking out Aikman?
Were you saddened that Troy was knocked out of the game and ultimately career?
Do you think Lavar was running over to hopefully get a nice textbook wrapup tackle?

[IMG]http://gifninja.com/animatedgifs/372802/lavar-arrington-retires-troy-aikman.gif[/IMG]

To be honest, I am waiting for Shanahan to be banned for teaching cut blocking. The only thing that tore up more knees than Cut blocking is the old astro turf at Veterans Stadium.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=jamf;907086]After the NFC Championship game, Devin Thomas publicly said that he knew Kyle Williams ( the guy who fumbled the game away) had concussions in the past and was trying to knock him out of the game.[/quote]


I didn't know who said it ,I do know the film maker who filmed the Saints said something about it.Let's not forget either that the Saints were told to stop ....more than once and ignored it,big difference.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

I still don't understand how people try to defend this.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Ruhskins;907191]I still don't understand how people try to defend this.[/quote]

No idea.

All I'm going to say about the LaVar hit on Aikman is #1 that's a clean shot. And yeah, it is sad that multiple concussions ended a great career.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

Darren Woodson basically said most of what you heard from Williams is typical of any Saturday night defense meeting. It was the Crabtree reference, the concussion references that were way overboard.

Its disgusting and not defending it, but i think statements like "kill the head, body will die" "take his ass out" "lay him out or put him down" "knock the sh*t out of him" "make him pay"....that language is common place at every level

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Chico23231;907197]Darren Woodson basically said most of what you heard from Williams is typical of any Saturday night defense meeting. It was the Crabtree reference, the concussion references that were way overboard.

Its disgusting and not defending it, but i think statements like "kill the head, body will die" "take his ass out" "lay him out or put him down" "knock the sh*t out of him" "make him pay"....that language is common place at every level[/quote]

Yeah that's not the part I don't like, it's the part where he targets specific body parts on the players for the 49ers. Aka "go after Frank Gore's head" "Crabtree's ACL" "Davis' ankles" etc.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Hog1;907112]I was happy when he failed to get the Skins HC gig after Joe2. Mostly because I just think he's an egotistical.....dick. I had no idea he was the NFL's Marquis De Sade.......[/quote]

Great post!! Williams is a dick.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[QUOTE=Ruhskins;907191]I still don't understand how people try to defend this.[/QUOTE]


Amazing isn't it?

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;907088]I don't get why the NFL doesn't adopt the NHL's injury policy in that teams are not forced to disclose injuries. Rather they just say upper or lower body to get the media something to work with.

I doubt Gregg Williams is the only active coach to explicitly target players with ailments.

There seems to be a misconception though that fans are bothered by the profanity. I've seen it on Twitter with a few former NFL players. I think it's safe to say that people are use to it especially if they've seen hard knocks. It's clear that the mention of specific injuries and the plan to target them is whats causing the utter sense of shock.[/quote]

The fact - - or the belief - - that other teams do something similar to what we now KNOW the Saints were doing does not make what the Saints did right. Nor would it make what other teams similarly do right.

Lots of folks are arrested and convicted every year for DUI. That does not make it OK for you to drive under the influence.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;907221]The fact - - or the belief - - that other teams do something similar to what we now KNOW the Saints were doing does not make what the Saints did right. Nor would it make what other teams similarly do right.

Lots of folks are arrested and convicted every year for DUI. That does not make it OK for you to drive under the influence.[/quote]

i agree, but it says its an unfortunate social norm. Hitting people to inflict pain is a norm in football, the intent to injury?...could be argued.

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/The-Ravens-put-a-bounty-on-Hines-Ward-and-Rashar?urn=nfl,116684]The Ravens put a bounty on Hines Ward and Rashard Mendenhall - Shutdown Corner - NFL Blog - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

People remember this? Yes it happens on other teams. Direct from the article: Suggs acknowledged recently on the syndicated sports radio talk show "2 Live Stews" that the Ravens had a bounty on Mendenhall and on Ward.

Remember when Ray Lewis taking out Reshard Mendenhall?: "The linebacker, however, wasn't the only Raven boasting about the season-ending hit on Mendenhall. The guy who delivered the knockout blow, Ray Lewis, told Sports Illustrated that after the play he wasn't calling for medical help for Mendenhall, he was bragging that the first-round pick was "done". "

To say this hasnt happened before or is not praticed on other teams is head-in-the-ground foolish

Not that i agree with any of this, but like ive stated before...similar type of things happens on every level

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

And to think we wanted him to be head coach..(or at least most of us did)

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=jamf;907148]I agree that deliberately taking out a guys knee or deliberately trying to concuss(helmet to helmet hit) a player is way out of line.

Testing a guy who is coming back from an ACL injury or trying to knock the crap out of a guy with concussion problems is fair game to me.

People are calling for GW to be banned for life but has anyone studied actual game film to see if the Saints tried to take out Crabtrees ACL or have film of a helmet to helmet hit on Kyle Williams?
Anyone interview those guys and ask them what they thought of the Saints play? What about the other Saints Opponents last year?

I think the tape shows GW going over the line trying to get his guys hyped and motivated for the game. All 26 defensive players know how to play the game and wouldn't intentionally risk a guys career on a cheep shot.

Guys like Darren Sharper and London Fletcher have said that GW is one of the best coaches they have ever played for. If GW was really after ending guys seasons/careers, I doubt a standup guy like Fletcher would feel that way about him.

Trying to knock a guy out is a part of the game whether you like it or not.



What was everyones initial reaction to Lavar Arrington Taking out Aikman?
Were you saddened that Troy was knocked out of the game and ultimately career?
Do you think Lavar was running over to hopefully get a nice textbook wrapup tackle?

[IMG]http://gifninja.com/animatedgifs/372802/lavar-arrington-retires-troy-aikman.gif[/IMG]

To be honest, I am waiting for Shanahan to be banned for teaching cut blocking. The only thing that tore up more knees than Cut blocking is the old astro turf at Veterans Stadium.[/quote]

I though GW went a little overboard with the ACL comments. But it is legal to hit someone on the knee. The stuff about Gore was just talk. I highly doubt any of the Saints players went head hunting cause the fines are way too severe. If a player is hurt and decides to go out on the field then it IS FAIR GAME. Romo had rib issues and D. Hall said he was going to hit him in the ribs. Sorry but that's football.

Goodell is just the owners bitch. He doesn't give a damn about the players. His loyalty is with the owners and that's why he's so obsessed about all the head injuries....cause of all the lawsuits. Which in turn is why we see so many BS calls every week. It's not the refs, it's the league going overboard trying to make it flag football. GW is going to be the scapegoat but I hope he does get a chance to coach in the NFL again. Everyone deserves a 2nd chance.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

With Goodell's campaign on concussions lately, directing your players to target heads, especially known-concussed heads is just asking for a big punishment.

Morals aside, Williams showed no common sense. He had to know the Commish would crack down on him very hard for this.

The ACLs and other directives were just over the top.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=skinsfan69;907243]I though GW went a little overboard with the ACL comments. But it is legal to hit someone on the knee. The stuff about Gore was just talk. I highly doubt any of the Saints players went head hunting cause the fines are way too severe. If a player is hurt and decides to go out on the field then it IS FAIR GAME. Romo had rib issues and D. Hall said he was going to hit him in the ribs. Sorry but that's football.

Goodell is just the owners bitch. He doesn't give a damn about the players. His loyalty is with the owners and that's why he's so obsessed about all the head injuries....cause of all the lawsuits. Which in turn is why we see so many BS calls every week. It's not the refs, it's the league going overboard trying to make it flag football. GW is going to be the scapegoat but I hope he does get a chance to coach in the NFL again. Everyone deserves a 2nd chance.[/quote]

Well you know it was the NFLPA, not the owners, who were making player safety and concussion awareness such a key part of negotiations for a new CBA last year.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=skinsfan69;907243]I though GW went a little overboard with the ACL comments. But it is legal to hit someone on the knee. The stuff about Gore was just talk. I highly doubt any of the Saints players went head hunting cause the fines are way too severe. If a player is hurt and decides to go out on the field then it IS FAIR GAME. Romo had rib issues and D. Hall said he was going to hit him in the ribs. Sorry but that's football.

Goodell is just the owners bitch. He doesn't give a damn about the players. His loyalty is with the owners and that's why he's so obsessed about all the head injuries....cause of all the lawsuits. Which in turn is why we see so many BS calls every week. It's not the refs, it's the league going overboard trying to make it flag football. GW is going to be the scapegoat but I hope he does get a chance to coach in the NFL again. [B]Everyone deserves a 2nd chance[/B].[/quote]

By my count it would be his 4th chance. The Rog gave him multiple opportunities to shut it down and he didn't.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

As I've said this before, regardless of what people complain about, the NFL is changing and taking safety into consideration in their rules and policies, though I would argue in a flawed manner (ex: developing rules to protect players, yet still pushing for an 18-game season).

It amazes me that people want to dismiss this whole situation and sweep it under the rug. In the end, Gregg Williams F*CKED UP many times over. He f*cked up by starting this bounty program, and worst of all he f*cked up when his superiors and the league told him "STOP DOING THIS" and he didn't stop. I have nothing against GW as a person, but I would definitely understand it if he never coaches again. He has cost the Saints a lot, and he has pretty much killed his reputation. I'd be curious if any team would be willing to take a chance on him.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=SmootSmack;907253]Well you know it was the NFLPA, not the owners, who were making player safety and concussion awareness such a key part of negotiations for a new CBA last year.[/quote]

Yes but Goodell and the front office are the enforcers. They're the ones handing down the ridiculous fines, suspensions and so on.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=mooby;907255]By my count it would be his 4th chance. The Rog gave him multiple opportunities to shut it down and he didn't.[/quote]

Exactly.

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7778005/gregg-williams-told-new-orleans-saints-hurt-san-francisco-49ers-speech]Gregg Williams told New Orleans Saints to hurt San Francisco 49ers in speech - ESPN[/url]

Golic with a great quote from a Giants player basically saying the samething about taking out kyle williams. dont agree with it, but just saying league wide

Re: New Orleans Saints/Washington Redskins: Bounty Hunters
 

[quote=mooby;907255]By my count it would be his 4th chance. The Rog gave him multiple opportunities to shut it down and he didn't.[/quote]

I think he should be allowed to coach again once he serves his time away. Vick lied to Goodell and what he did was far worse IMO.