re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

New England can have Gaffney for a low round pick. Come on BA, start dealing! LOL.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;898619]Jabar Gaffney was indeed our best WR last season. He would have been our leading receiver even if Moss didn't get injured. If the Redskins cut Gaffney, that would really surprise me.[/quote]

Don't be too surprised, cause there's already whispers of it being a possibility.

He was definitely our best WR last year but that's not really saying much. As well as he played he's not a playmaker, and it's obvious that's what we need more than anything.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;898623]He doesn't imo.

1. Garcon
2. Morgan
3. Hank or royal
4. See 3[/quote]

Or

1. Garcon
2. Hankerson
3. Morgan/Royal
4. Royal/Morgan
5. Paul
6. Robinson or 2012 draft pick

Without the offseason it's probably unlikely that Hankerson can elevate to #1 status but the hope is that he emerges as a #1 eventually.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

Gaffney deserves another year here, but his trade value hasn't been as high since his early years & the position is getting crowded. Look at it this way, if the coaches feel like he's on the bubble to make the roster in camp, might as well get a late round pick for him, especially w/our recent trade factored in.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=Mattyk;898618]If we also sign Royal... where does Gaffney fit in?[/quote]

I guess he's expensive for depth, but I think he's a better WR than Josh Morgan. I'm probably in the minority there, but I would like to keep him for depth. I can see Morgan not panning out. Gaffney was productive in the system and could provide some veteran leadership to the new guys coming in. I'd like to keep him around.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

Matty,

He may not be a gamebreaker -- but he's reliable which is something. He runs good routes and makes catches on balls near him. I think every team needs at least one guy like that.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

Sending Gaffney to NE for a 4th or 5th wouldn't make me lose any sleep.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;898637]Sending Gaffney to NE for a 4th or 5th wouldn't make me lose any sleep.[/quote]

No way we'd get a 4th, or a top half 5th for him.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=Gmanc711;898646]No way we'd get a 4th, or a top half 5th for him.[/quote]

NE has been known to do weird deals like that. I remember a few years ago they gave the Iggles a 4th rounder for freaking Greg Lewis.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=Daseal;898636]Matty,

He may not be a gamebreaker -- but he's reliable which is something. He runs good routes and makes catches on balls near him. I think every team needs at least one guy like that.[/quote]

Totally get that.

But if we sign Royal, I just don't see where he fits in. He's not worth keeping around as your 4th or 5th guy.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=theJBexperience;898635]I guess he's expensive for depth, [B]but I think he's a better WR than Josh Morgan.[/B] I'm probably in the minority there, but I would like to keep him for depth. I can see Morgan not panning out. Gaffney was productive in the system and could provide some veteran leadership to the new guys coming in. I'd like to keep him around.[/quote]

If he was, we wouldn't have made the move for Morgan.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=Mattyk;898688]Totally get that.

But if we sign Royal, I just don't see where he fits in. He's not worth keeping around as your 4th or 5th guy.[/quote]

Is it unthinkable to cut Moss and have Royal play out of the slot? Cutting Moss before June 1st would save us $1.3M, after June 1st, $2.83....

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=GMScud;898693]Is it unthinkable to cut Moss and have Royal play out of the slot? Cutting Moss before June 1st would save us $1.3M, after June 1st, $2.83....[/quote]

I could totally see cutting Moss & Gaffney. Neither of these guys are the future here anyway.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

Our need for Jabar Gaffney's services is dependent on whether or not Morgan can do what Gaffney does (plus extra, obviously).

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=GMScud;898693]Is it unthinkable to cut Moss and have Royal play out of the slot? Cutting Moss before June 1st would save us $1.3M, June 1st, $2.83....[/quote]
I dont think cutting Moss saves us anything, now. But If he gets cut now, he will save us 6 million next year

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

I agree, I don't see Moss here unless there's a training camp injury prior to pre-season.

Gaffney, I'm really on the fence. I'd like to see him come back. We'd be adding three new faces, the fourth and fifth WR, Hank and Paul, haven't played much and are still wet behind the ears. For the sake of continuity and having a veteran comfortable in Kyle's system just makes sense.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

I am a fan of Gaffney, and would love to see him remain a Redskin. Plus his veteran leadership is invaluable. It would baffle me if the Redskins either cut him or traded him. The only positive thing out of his outgoing would be RG3 would officially get Gaffney's number.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[QUOTE=SirClintonPortis;898699]Our need for Jabar Gaffney's services is dependent on whether or not Morgan can do what Gaffney does (plus extra, obviously).[/QUOTE]



If we get 947 yards out of Morgan, I call it a win.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;898700]I dont think cutting Moss saves us anything, now. But If he gets cut now, he will save us 6 million next year[/quote]

[IMG]http://www.tinygif.com/data/media/11/stewie-turn.gif[/IMG]

So glad I dusted this off

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

Add to that, that you can cut a player now and designate him as a June 1 cut allowing the player to ge a new team and the team to save the extra cap money. Talked about it a while ago in the thread.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

I guess my point is I don't think we'll cut Moss [I]and [/I]Gaffney. We need seasoned hands on the roster.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=SmootSmack;898709][IMG]http://www.tinygif.com/data/media/11/stewie-turn.gif[/IMG]

So glad I dusted this off[/quote]

Somebody's...been watching Family Guy reruns lately lol!

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;898700]I dont think cutting Moss saves us anything, now. But If he gets cut now, he will save us 6 million next year[/quote]

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/14/santana-moss-might-want-to-start-packing-his-bags/]Santana Moss might want to start packing his bags | ProFootballTalk[/url]

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

JLC just reported had not the 'Skins moved up for RGIII, Garcon was going to sign with San Diego.

[QUOTE=12thMan;898749]JLC just reported had not the 'Skins moved up for RGIII, Garcon was going to sign with San Diego.[/QUOTE]

Well would u wanna play with Rex?

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=12thMan;898712]I guess my point is I don't think we'll cut Moss [I]and [/I]Gaffney. We need seasoned hands on the roster.[/quote]I would be lying if I said I know what they are planning, because these FA signings came totally out of left field for me. But I think the seasoned hands you speak of ARE the players they've signed.

The only guy from last year who is safe at this point is Hankerson, who has the inside track to start at the X position.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

I hear you, but I think -- hope -- they would at least retain the services of Mr. Jabar Gaffney.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=12thMan;898749]JLC just reported had not the 'Skins moved up for RGIII, Garcon was going to sign with San Diego.[/quote]

Interesting...not surprising though. RGIII is already paying off?!

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=Lotus;898549]I don't get the we-overpaid-for-Garcon crowd. Indy offered him $7 mil a year and we had to offer just a bit more to get him. That's what we did. It's not like we threw VJax money at him.

Griffin to Garcon is going to rule.[/quote]

I don't think Garcon is 7 mil a year type of wr. He's been up and down and struggles with routine catches. But we see it all around the league, teams overpay if they really want a guy. I'm actually OK with Garcon cause Indy established his value. I just see no need for Morgan or Royal. Spend that money elsewhere.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=skinsfan69;898811]I don't think Garcon is 7 mil a year type of wr. He's been up and down and struggles with routine catches. But we see it all around the league, teams overpay if they really want a guy. I'm actually OK with Garcon cause Indy established his value. I just see no need for Morgan or Royal. Spend that money elsewhere.[/quote]

I think the fact Norv in San Diego wanted Garcon over V Jax and the rest of the market speaks pretty high of Garcon's ability

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

Antonio Freeman, former Packers wide receiver, doesn't think the Redskins have a game changer with Garcon, Morgan, and possibly Royal. But that remains to be seen. Just because the Redskins didn't land Colston, Marshall, or V. Jackson, people like Freeman(some NFL analysts) are saying that the Redskins didn't upgrade- that they overpaid for a trio of #2 receivers. I don't think that's the case and we won't know until nearly halfway through the season.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=Chico23231;898812]I think the fact Norv in San Diego wanted Garcon over V Jax and the rest of the market speaks pretty high of Garcon's ability[/quote]

I think Norv wanted Jackson, SD just wasn't going to pay him cause of the risk. Garcon was his 2nd option. Tampa completly overpaid for Jackson IMO.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=Lotus;898549]I don't get the we-overpaid-for-Garcon crowd. Indy offered him $7 mil a year and we had to offer just a bit more to get him. That's what we did. It's not like we threw VJax money at him.

Griffin to Garcon is going to rule.[/quote]VJax would have been more taxing on the cap (particularly in 2012, when Jackson is counting $13 million against TBs cap and Garcon about $4.5 against ours). But Jackson is a MUCH better player than Garcon, and he likely deserves the difference.

Age is a big deal though. If Garcon develops as the Shanahan's expect (given this deal), he could be a bargain in years 3-5. Where as Jackson will almost certainly be overpaid in the same years.

Garcon though has to get past years 1 and 2 though. $10 mil/year for two seasons for a receiver who [I]doesn't[/I] develop is tough to swallow no matter how much cap space one has. The Bucs aren't projecting Jackson to turn into a number one for them, as he already is. Which is the big difference.

Plus the Morgan signings suggests the Shanahan's don't think this signing is a slam dunk. If it is a great move and Garcon-Griffin is the new Harrison-Manning, Morgan will rot on the bench for a year and then look for work in 2013, B. Lloyd-style.

But Morgan's speed and versatility gives the Redskins a non-Armstrong option if one too many Griffin bombs go through Garcon's hands.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=skinsfan69;898817]I think Norv wanted Jackson, SD just wasn't going to pay him cause of the risk. Garcon was his 2nd option. Tampa completly overpaid for Jackson IMO.[/quote]

Right the risk, if San Diego and Norv truly wanted him he woulda never hit the market. Norv had multiple opportunities to sign V Jax, he went after Garcon instead.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

I dont want Royal too. It will remind me of `06 when we picked up 6 WRs and Brandon Lloyd had like 6 catches all year we had 40 mid tier WRs. We have enough after Pierre & Josh.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=GTripp0012;898821]VJax would have been more taxing on the cap (particularly in 2012, when Jackson is counting $13 million against TBs cap and Garcon about $4.5 against ours). But Jackson is a MUCH better player than Garcon, and he likely deserves the difference.

Age is a big deal though. [B]If Garcon develops as the Shanahan's expect (given this deal), he could be a bargain in years 3-5. Where as Jackson will almost certainly be overpaid in the same years.[/B]

Garcon though has to get past years 1 and 2 though. $10 mil/year for two seasons for a receiver who [I]doesn't[/I] develop is tough to swallow no matter how much cap space one has. The Bucs aren't projecting Jackson to turn into a number one for them, as he already is. Which is the big difference.

Plus the Morgan signings suggests the Shanahan's don't think this signing is a slam dunk. If it is a great move and Garcon-Griffin is the new Harrison-Manning, Morgan will rot on the bench for a year and then look for work in 2013, B. Lloyd-style.

But Morgan's speed and versatility gives the Redskins a non-Armstrong option if one too many Griffin bombs go through Garcon's hands.[/quote]

I don't disagree that VJax is the better player. But the bolded part is why I think we got a good value (provided Garcon develops, of course).

As for Morgan, it seems to me like we are doing a complete housecleaning at WR. I do not expect Morgan to rot on the bench. I think Morgan is the Housh to Garcon's Ochocinco a la 2005 Bengals.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

Fwiw, the Eagles are overpaying DeSean Jackson as well. Not quite by as much as we're lining Garcon's pockets in excess of his value, but in the same way that neither team will be able to get value on the contract until year 3 at the earliest, assuming the player even makes it there.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=Lotus;898829]I don't disagree that VJax is the better player. But the bolded part is why I think we got a good value (provided Garcon develops, of course).

As for Morgan, it seems to me like we are doing a complete housecleaning at WR. I do not expect Morgan to rot on the bench. I think Morgan is the Housh to Garcon's Ochocinco a la 2005 Bengals.[/quote]

Santana Moss HEALTHY> Josh Morgan.

I wouldnt bank on Morgan just yet and hes comming off a sidelining injury.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=Lotus;898829]I don't disagree that VJax is the better player. But the bolded part is why I think we got a good value (provided Garcon develops, of course).

As for Morgan, it seems to me like we are doing a complete housecleaning at WR. I do not expect Morgan to rot on the bench. I think Morgan is the Housh to Garcon's Ochocinco a la 2005 Bengals.[/quote]Barring injury (which inevitably will strike, and woohoo! if it doesn't), someone here is resigned to the bench. Otherwise, we're playing with either too many guys on the field or a poor excuse for a right tackle.

But I think the "if he develops" is only half of the value equation, and frankly, it's not the more likely half. If Garcon struggles for any reason (even something that's not his own fault like inconsistent use or misusage), then 1/$13.5 or 2/$21 is a difficult burden for the team to carry. Much more difficult on the downside than a $7 mil/year for a true no. 1 receiver between the ages of 28-30 is an upside for the roster.

My biggest beef is that Josh Morgan might actually have some hidden upside that might make him a no. 1 receiver in the future (kind of like Armstrong in 2010), but he's going back to the market in two years whether he works out or not. The signing that should have had the backloaded upside potential doesn't have that potential. That's the kind of missed opportunity that Bruce Allen typically seizes, at least with every position except wide receiver.

And that makes me terrified as to what an Eddie Royal contract might look like because Royal is not even a good (or remotely acceptable) offensive player. He did win a game for Denver with a punt return though last year.

re: Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan
 

[quote=Skins4L;898832]Santana Moss HEALTHY> Josh Morgan.

I wouldnt bank on Morgan just yet and hes comming off a sidelining injury.[/quote]

I don't disagree about the injury of Morgan's. But I was talking more about the plan in the ideal, not the reality. No one knows the reality right now.

As for Santana > Morgan, that is debatable. But even if we grant that (and I do like Santana), it must be asked: will that still be true in two years?