Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Giantone;930334][QUOTE=Dirtbag59;930306]Whoever does a better job of getting people back to work and putting businesses in a postion where they feel good about hiring again is going to help the middle class more then anything. People focus to much on the class warfare.

QUOTE]

Class warfare is exactly what this is,like it or not there is a direct correlation between the demise of the middle class and the demise of Unions around the country.people talk about getting others more educated to get better (other) jobs when their job is sent over seas,yet those jobs are also going over seas.People can not live on 7.50 or even 10.50 a week.
I know people hate Unions,well I've said this before..you want firemen and policemen to walk into buildings and take a bullit fot you ...save your life but when it comes to them being able to support a family screw them,what do think would have happen to the firemen ,EMPs and Police after 9/11 if not for their Unions,yes there have been bad Union as there have been bad owners but the temperment for what is going on right now in this country proves we need Unions.(sorry for the rant)[/quote]

So how is having more unions and driving up labor cost going to stop jobs from going over seas?

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;930474]Honestly I don't see how they're going to do it. They're attacking the Obama administration with kid gloves, they don't have a clear plan outlined instead running on the fact that they aren't Obama, and they have a notorious flip flopper as their nominee. [B]In other words it's scary how much Romney reminds me of John Kerry.[/B]

Plus they're getting killed in the polls and falling behind in key battleground states. We're also seeing seniors and latinos leaning towards Obama (ie Florida).

Right now Obama is the safe bet to win the election. I mean for goodness sake he's 9 points ahead in a Fox News poll.[/quote]

Agreed. Neither one could/can rally their own base let alone win over enough independents.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=mlmpetert;930437][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I was not aware that our government is supposed to ration [I][FONT=Verdana]its[/FONT][/I] money out to social classes. Silly me. [/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]


Get your head out of your asses. Seriously. If you can't see what giving ALL the wealth to just a few select individuals is doing to the economy, then I really cant' help you. Nobody said that the wealth needs to be redistributed equally, but the gap in income between the wealthy and the poor is in large a reason why the economy sucks the way it does. Take away income from the middle/poor class, then you take away purchasing power and DEMAND out of the economy. It's basic economics.

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;930448]another typical post boosting your credibility.....[/quote]


Have either of you even read Paul Ryan's budget proposal? It's evident you haven't. Here, allow me to give you some insight.

Cutting taxes for the rich.
[url=http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/08/mitt-romney-would-pay-082-percent-in-taxes-under-paul-ryans-plan/261027/]Mitt Romney Would Pay 0.82 Percent in Taxes Under Paul Ryan's Plan - Matthew O'Brien - The Atlantic[/url]

More money for big oil.
[url=http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2012/03/ryan_big_oil.html]Ryan Budget Pads Big Oil’s Pockets with Senseless Subsidies[/url]


GOP even LOL'd at that shit.
[url=http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/04/15/dems-call-gops-bluff-force-house-republicans-to-vote-down-their-own-budget/?ru=yahoo&mod=yahoo_hs]Dems call GOP’s bluff, force House Republicans to vote down their own budget | The Raw Story[/url]


[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/08/13/wonkbook-a-paul-ryan-primer/]Wonkbook: Everything you need to know about Paul Ryan[/url]



Surely, his skipping Florida has nothing to do with how he wants to **** over the Senior citizens.
[url=http://www.buzzfeed.com/zekejmiller/ryan-skips-florida-will-focus-on-great-lakes-stat]Ryan Skips Florida, Will Focus On Great Lakes States[/url]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=firstdown;930473]Its going to be so great when they take the office back in a few months. I see you just can't wait.[/quote]

LOL. Romney just gave Obama all the ammo he needs...lol


[url=http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/13/opinion/frum-romney-ryan/index.html]Romney did Obama a huge favor - CNN.com[/url]



Ryan more right wing than Dick Cheney? :laughing-


[url=http://www.diigo.com/annotated/eee98ce68f2e334785263dbdd417b246]A Risky Rationale Behind Romney's Choice of Ryan - NYTimes.com[/url]

[IMG]http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/08/11/us/politics/11fivethirtyeight-ryan-dwnominate/11fivethirtyeight-ryan-dwnominate-blog480.png[/IMG]


Loop all Romney/Ryan ads to target Budget Plan and Ayn Rand. Rinse/Repeat.

[url=http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-vp-paul-ryan-ayn-rand-20120811,0,1175099.story]Paul Ryan loved Ayn Rand, before he said he didn't - latimes.com[/url]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

This basically sums it up for the GOP's election candidates this year.


[IMG]http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2582/4153321590_0f72010bdd.jpg[/IMG]


I bet if McCain had ran with a decent VP this year, he'd smoked Obama.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;930481]Get your head out of your asses. Seriously. If you can't see what giving ALL the wealth to just a few select individuals is doing to the economy, then I really cant' help you. Nobody said that the wealth needs to be redistributed equally, but the gap in income between the wealthy and the poor is in large a reason why the economy sucks the way it does. Take away income from the middle/poor class, then you take away purchasing power and DEMAND out of the economy. It's basic economics.

[/quote]

All due respect the wealth of top 1 percent is overblown. This video can explain it better then I can.
[YT]vDhcqua3_W8[/YT]
Full disclosure I grew up in a family that got to the top 1 percent for a time during the 90s in part due to the stock market boom. My father grew up in a family of four kids where the father was a humble Bureaucrat. Two of the kids in my Dads family went on to be VP's of major corporations, another became a partner at a major major firm and is literally a millionaire a couple times over. The fourth child went on to be an amazing parent.

The ability to move up through income brackets is what makes this country great and as I progress further into my career I want that chance to be made available to me. I personally think the Obama move towards socialism is overblown and fear mongering among die hard neo-cons but at the same time I want a party in the White House that makes it easier for businesses to do business.

From what I've seen in this election the Republicans are that party as the Dems seem more interested in their vendetta with Wall Street then they are getting the economy to work again.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;930484]All due respect the wealth of top 1 percent is overblown. This video can explain it better then I can.
[YT]vDhcqua3_W8[/YT]
Full disclosure I grew up in a family that got to the top 1 percent for a time during the 90s in part due to the stock market boom. My father grew up in a family of four kids where the father was a humble Bureaucrat. Two of the kids in my Dads family went on to be VP's of major corporations, another became a partner at a major major firm and is literally a millionaire a couple times over. The fourth child went on to be an amazing parent.

[B]The ability to move up through income brackets is what makes this country great and as I progress further into my career I want that chance to be made available to me. I personally think the Obama move towards socialism is overblown and fear mongering among die hard neo-cons but at the same time I want a party in the White House that makes it easier for businesses to do business.[/B]

From what I've seen in this election the Republicans are that party as the Dems seem more interested in their vendetta with Wall Street then they are getting the economy to work again.[/quote]


[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]To me thats what makes America, America. Its the ability that no matter who you are, where you come from, or who you know you have a [I][FONT=Verdana]chance[/FONT][/I] at being the next Mark Zuckerberg, Sergey Brin, Oprah Winfrey, Steve Jobs, Dan Snyder or Shahid Khan. While there may be plenty of families in the US that are old money, to me at least, it seems there is just as much new money and that’s what makes it great.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]The income mobility (both up and down) in America far exceeds almost all, if not all, other places in the world. Everyone here has a chance at being part of the 1%. And once there, youre not given permanent access to that elite club as many drop back down the charts. I love the idea of living in a place thats based on merit and not entitlement. And i could care less how rich someone thats not me is, as long as I have a chance at being financially equal or superior to them through hard work, perseverance or luck, and not through entitlement, royalty or birth right.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]It seems that more and more people arnt happy with what they have, not because of what they have or dont have, but because of what others do have. People need to stop. You either work and take risks to have more or youre happy being complacent, but to attack others because they have more is just plain old fashioned *Greenville North Caroline ignorant.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]NCSkins: Would you rather live in a society where income disparity was minimal and everyone enjoyed a similar quality of life. Or would you rather live in a place where there was large income disparity, but the overall quality of life was better for everyone?[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]That’s what I think it all comes down to. It’s a psychology issue. Is quality of life based off of your own life or is it based off of your life only in comparison to anothers. [/FONT][/COLOR]

*Just playing about that Greenville stuff.....

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;930482]LOL. Romney just gave Obama all the ammo he needs...lol


[URL="http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/13/opinion/frum-romney-ryan/index.html"]Romney did Obama a huge favor - CNN.com[/URL]



Ryan more right wing than Dick Cheney? :laughing-


[URL="http://www.diigo.com/annotated/eee98ce68f2e334785263dbdd417b246"]A Risky Rationale Behind Romney's Choice of Ryan - NYTimes.com[/URL]

[IMG]http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/08/11/us/politics/11fivethirtyeight-ryan-dwnominate/11fivethirtyeight-ryan-dwnominate-blog480.png[/IMG]


Loop all Romney/Ryan ads to target Budget Plan and Ayn Rand. Rinse/Repeat.

[URL="http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-vp-paul-ryan-ayn-rand-20120811,0,1175099.story"]Paul Ryan loved Ayn Rand, before he said he didn't - latimes.com[/URL][/quote]

I think its great we have a conservative in the race now.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

See mlmPert gets me. The truth is people move in and out of the top 1 percent all the time. It's not like there's a huge group of people that have a permanent spot among the financial elite. And the biggest surprise is in this top 1 percent you have teachers, secretaries, truck drivers, child care workers, nurses. It's not just corporate fat cats that think of ways to fleece people out of their hard earned money, though there is a healthy amount of lawyers :D.

[url=http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/newsgraphics/2012/0115-one-percent-occupations/index.html]The Top 1 Percent: What Jobs Do They Have? - NYTimes.com[/url]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=mlmpetert;930499][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]That’s what I think it all comes down to. It’s a psychology issue. Is quality of life based off of your own life or is it based off of your life only in comparison to anothers. [/FONT][/COLOR]

*Just playing about that Greenville stuff.....[/quote]very good posts to you and Dirtbag.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;930484]All due respect the wealth of top 1 percent is overblown. This video can explain it better then I can.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vDhcqua3_W8]Are the Poor Getting Poorer? - YouTube[/url][/quote]

The problem with this video is that they don't take into account the number of jobs a particular home is working. Many poor people could in fact be working multiple jobs. It also doesn't take into account the costs of goods and inflation over time. A gallon of gas or a loaf of bread isn't what it cost 15 years ago. The wealth of the top 1 percent is NOT overblown, if anything, it understated. All this video says is that the poor people have gotten richer over time. Sure, their measly income has increase, but not at the rate of which the rich have and not at the rate to match cost of living.

[url=http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph]It's the Inequality, Stupid | Mother Jones[/url]





[quote=Dirtbag59;930484]Full disclosure I grew up in a family that got to the top 1 percent for a time during the 90s in part due to the stock market boom. My father grew up in a family of four kids where the father was a humble Bureaucrat. Two of the kids in my Dads family went on to be VP's of major corporations, another became a partner at a major major firm and is literally a millionaire a couple times over. The fourth child went on to be an amazing parent.

The ability to move up through income brackets is what makes this country great and as I progress further into my career I want that chance to be made available to me. I personally think the Obama move towards socialism is overblown and fear mongering among die hard neo-cons but at the same time I want a party in the White House that makes it easier for businesses to do business.[/quote]


That's nice and dandy, but that fairy tale doesn't exist for everybody. Hey guys, if Usain Bolt can win a gold medal so can you with hard work!! That's akin to your logic of people being able to progress through with hard work. It's a myth. Sure, it does happen to people, but on the overall whole, it's not really feasible. How many CEO jobs are there in the US? What if everybody worked just as hard as each other, would that mean they all could get CEO jobs? Nope. A lot of this has to do with luck, social connections, education, and work experience. I've worked in the private sector and currently work in the government side of things. You'll be surprised to know how often the guy who doesn't give it all or who's a nitwit gets promoted, while the guy who busts his ass doesn't because who's going to do the work if he gets promoted?...lol The below is why I love George Carlin so much. The man told the truth as it is, and knew even back then how things were. I think he sums up the "American Dream" quite well.

[YT]acLW1vFO-2Q[/YT]

For few, they do indeed live the American Dream of making it to the top and prospering, but it's largely a myth for the rest of the population. This doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to be the best YOU because of this though. Being self fulfilled with one's abilities/talent is a important part of many people's life, but that doesn't always involve reaching the top.





[quote=Dirtbag59;930484]From what I've seen in this election the Republicans are that party as the Dems seem more interested in their vendetta with Wall Street then they are getting the economy to work again.[/quote]

Then you haven't been paying attention one bit.
[url=http://www.policymic.com/articles/11510/senate-republicans-block-another-jobs-bill-face-backlash-from-american-public]Senate Republicans Block Another Jobs Bill, Face Backlash From American Public[/url]

[url=http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/09/12/316598/why-congress-wont-pass-a-jobs-bill-obama-is-on-the-ropes-why-do-we-appear-ready-to-hand-him-a-win/]Why Congress Won't Pass A Jobs Bill: 'Obama Is On The Ropes; Why Do We Appear Ready To Hand Him A Win?' | ThinkProgress[/url]

Puhhhlease...lol

/facepalm

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;930474]Honestly I don't see how they're going to do it. They're attacking the Obama administration with kid gloves, they don't have a clear plan outlined instead running on the fact that they aren't Obama, and they have a notorious flip flopper as their nominee. In other words it's scary how much Romney reminds me of John Kerry.

Plus they're getting killed in the polls and falling behind in key battleground states. We're also seeing seniors and latinos leaning towards Obama (ie Florida).

Right now Obama is the safe bet to win the election. I mean for goodness sake he's 9 points ahead in a Fox News poll.[/quote]Not so fast my friend: From Rasmussen. "The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows Mitt Romney attracting support from 47% of voters nationwide, while President Obama earns the vote from 44%. Four percent (4%) prefer some other candidate, and four percent (4%) are undecided."

[URL="http://www.politico.com/p/2012-election/polls/president/colorado/colorado-12-presidential-general-election-206"]Colorado '12 Presidential General Election Poll - Wednesday, August 8, 2012 - 2012 Election - POLITICO.com[/URL]

[URL="http://www.gallup.com/poll/election.aspx"]Election 2012 Polling and News, Republican Presidential Candidates, Obama, Interactive Polling Data[/URL]

[URL="http://www.gallup.com/poll/156446/2008-Obama-Voters-McCain-Voters-Switching-Sides.aspx"]More 2008 Obama Voters Than McCain Voters Switching Sides[/URL]

[URL="http://www.gallup.com/poll/156194/Democratic-Voting-Enthusiasm-Down-Sharply-2004-2008.aspx"]Democratic Voting Enthusiasm Down Sharply From 2004, 2008[/URL]

and now that saden's on the hook for more coin.....here's why Romney wins big in Nov. 2012: [URL="http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/why-obama-will-lose-in-a-landslide/"]Root: Why Obama Will Lose in a Landslide | TheBlaze.com[/URL]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=firstdown;930501]I think its great we have a conservative in the race now.[/quote]

There's nothing conservative about Paul Ryan. Nothing. He rubber stamped every single Bush policy bloating the size government, including TARP, which most of you so called conservatives hate.

Paul Ryan has passed a grand total of two bills in 13 years of being in Congress. One was naming a post office. They got nothing.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Paul Ryan's voting record:


[url=http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Paul_Ryan.htm/]Paul Ryan on the Issues[/url]




[B]Decent article on Paul Ryan's voting career[/B]
[url=http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-ryan-record-20120812,0,5460291.story]Rep. Paul Ryan's voting record reflects a GOP foot soldier - latimes.com[/url]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;930481]Get your head out of your asses. Seriously. If you can't see what giving ALL the wealth to just a few select individuals is doing to the economy, then I really cant' help you. Nobody said that the wealth needs to be redistributed equally, but the gap in income between the wealthy and the poor is in large a reason why the economy sucks the way it does. Take away income from the middle/poor class, then you take away purchasing power and DEMAND out of the economy. It's basic economics.[/quote]as FD mentioned, last I checked it wasn't the gov'ts job to "give" wealth to anyone. In your post you mention "redistributing" wealth.....shows clearly what side of the spectrum you fall under.....I'd say far left of 12th and saden. Nothing in the Romney/Paul plan takes from the middle class and gives to the "rich", another typical lib talking point.

[quote]Have either of you even read Paul Ryan's budget proposal? It's evident you haven't. Here, allow me to give you some insight.[/quote]This is your insight, outright lies and distortions of Ryan's plan by; the Center for American Progress, Ezra Klein and the Atlantic (plus an article from 2011), all left-wing hacks. LOL, again par for the course with you. How about I give you some insight so you can get your head out of your ass:

In the Ryan-Wyden (Dem, Oregon) plan:
1. [B][I]No one over the age of 55 would be affected in any way.[/I][/B]
2. Traditional Medicare fee-for-service would remain available for all. “Premium support”—that is, government funding of private insurance plans chosen by individuals—is an option for those who choose it. [I][B]No senior would be forced out of the traditional Medicare program against his will.[/B][/I]
3. Overall funding for Medicare under the Ryan-Wyden plan is scheduled to grow at the same rate as under President Obama’s proposals.

This plan is the market giving seniors cheaper, higher quality choices they can take if they wish, with the traditional program remaining an option.

Also, keep in mind that it was Obama and the dems who are gutting Medicare to the tune of $ 700B and will institute health care rationing for seniors under Obamacare.

Another important piece of information which the media arms of the DNC (CBS, ABC, NBC, CNN) declined to mention.....Paul Ryan's mother is a senior in Florida.....on Medicare. I wonder my the "unbiased" CBS would edit that portion of an interview with Ryan???? hmmmm?
[URL="http://nation.foxnews.com/cbs-news/2012/08/13/cbs-doesn-t-want-you-know-ryans-mother-medicare"]CBS Doesn’t Want You to Know Ryan's Mother Is On Medicare - CBS News - Fox Nation[/URL]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;930508]Not so fast my friend: From Rasmussen. "The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows Mitt Romney attracting support from 47% of voters nationwide, while President Obama earns the vote from 44%. Four percent (4%) prefer some other candidate, and four percent (4%) are undecided."

[URL="http://www.politico.com/p/2012-election/polls/president/colorado/colorado-12-presidential-general-election-206"]Colorado '12 Presidential General Election Poll - Wednesday, August 8, 2012 - 2012 Election - POLITICO.com[/URL]

[URL="http://www.gallup.com/poll/election.aspx"]Election 2012 Polling and News, Republican Presidential Candidates, Obama, Interactive Polling Data[/URL]

[URL="http://www.gallup.com/poll/156446/2008-Obama-Voters-McCain-Voters-Switching-Sides.aspx"]More 2008 Obama Voters Than McCain Voters Switching Sides[/URL]

[URL="http://www.gallup.com/poll/156194/Democratic-Voting-Enthusiasm-Down-Sharply-2004-2008.aspx"]Democratic Voting Enthusiasm Down Sharply From 2004, 2008[/URL]

and now that saden's on the hook for more coin.....here's why Romney wins big in Nov. 2012: [URL="http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/why-obama-will-lose-in-a-landslide/"]Root: Why Obama Will Lose in a Landslide | TheBlaze.com[/URL][/quote]


Bro, just wait till the Obama campaign starts kicking in those Romney/Ryan Budget/Ayn Rand ads you'll see those number plummet faster than Enron stock.

Most people don't know who he is, but they'll soon find out fast he's the guy that wants to take their SS/medicare/medicaid away.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Romney in a landslide?

Hilarious.

:laughing2

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=12thMan;930509]Paul Ryan has passed a grand total of two bills in 13 years of being in Congress. One was naming a post office. They got nothing.[/quote]Funny you say that.....reminds me of a certain liberal Senator who is now POTUS that only had two bills passed into law. Another typical lib attack point, anything to stay off the piss-poor economy, unemployment, high energy prices, and gov't takeover of the healthcare system.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;930511]as FD mentioned, last I checked it wasn't the gov'ts job to "give" wealth to anyone. In your post you mention "redistributing" wealth.....shows clearly what side of the spectrum you fall under.....I'd say far left of 12th and saden. Nothing in the Romney/Paul plan takes from the middle class and gives to the "rich", another typical lib talking point.[/quote]

I don't recall saying that the government needed to give wealth to the poor. The can however tax the rich people appropriately so guys like Mitt Romney can't get lower tax brackets than those who have much less. Nothing in Romney/Paul plan takes away from middle class? Really? The plan would actually increase taxes on the middle class, yet cut taxes for the upper class.





[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;930511]This is your insight, outright lies and distortions of Ryan's plan by; the Center for American Progress, Ezra Klein and the Atlantic (plus an article from 2011), all left-wing hacks. LOL, again par for the course with you. How about I give you some insight so you can get your head out of your ass:[/quote]

How about this source?

[url=http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-would-paul-ryans-budget-give-mitt-romney-zero-taxes-20120812,0,464987.story]Would Paul Ryan's budget give Mitt Romney zero taxes? - latimes.com[/url]

Yeah. Dude outright lies? Come on man. Left wing hacks that were truthful? So in other words, you have nothing to retort with or can't disprove any of it. Gotcha.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;930514]Funny you say that.....reminds me of a certain liberal Senator who is now POTUS that only had two bills passed into law. Another typical lib attack point, anything to stay off the piss-poor economy, unemployment, high energy prices, and gov't takeover of the healthcare system.[/quote]

Obama didn't spend thirteen years in Congress and neither was he holding himself up as some fiscal hawk. Rep. Ryan also voted to raise the debt ceiling 7 times under Bush. More phone fiscal conservatism. Not surprising.

Thank God the local media outlets around the country aren't drinking the Rove Kool Aid and taking him to task over his record. The Florida newspapers are pounding him in the headlines.

#Awesome

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=12thMan;930518]Obama didn't spend thirteen years in Congress and neither was he holding himself up as some fiscal hawk. Rep. Ryan also voted to raise the debt ceiling 7 times under Bush. More phone fiscal conservatism. Not surprising. [/quote]so when Obama "moves to the middle" (translation, forced to by GOP House) it's compromise and working across the aisle for the good of the American people. But when Ryan compromises, it's phony fiscal conservatism... #leftwinghypocrisy

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Forced by the GOP House? You mean the least productive Congress since the 40s? You mean the House that passed only 80 friggin bills in 2011? Voted to repeal Obamacare 33 times! and renamed more than a dozen post offices?

If we had some adults on the other side of the aisle your criticism would be valid.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;930517]How about this source?

[URL="http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-would-paul-ryans-budget-give-mitt-romney-zero-taxes-20120812,0,464987.story"]Would Paul Ryan's budget give Mitt Romney zero taxes? - latimes.com[/URL]

Yeah. Dude outright lies? Come on man. Left wing hacks that were truthful? So in other words, you have nothing to retort with or can't disprove any of it. Gotcha.[/quote]Certainly not unbiased, but better. At least they put forth some facts: "Whether the attack is true or not depends on which version of Ryan’s plan one looks at....." Obama campaign folks are touting a 2010 proposal.....which Romney opposed and he's at the top of the ticket.

"[URL="http://budget.house.gov/fy2013prosperity"][COLOR=#000080]the latest version[/COLOR][/URL] of the Ryan budget, which the House approved this spring, leaves the fate of capital gains taxes uncertain. The plan would change the income tax by moving from the current six rates to two — 10% and 25% — and would cut other taxes to the tune of $4.5 trillion over the next decade, over and above the tax cuts enacted under George W. Bush, which it would keep in place. But it makes no specific proposal about capital gains."

The left doesn't mention Ryan's budget proposal also closes tax loopholes for the rich. It also lowers the rate for the middle-class. In all, Ryan’s budget spends $1.028 trillion during the upcoming fiscal year, less than the $1.047 trillion cap approved by Congress last year and built into Obama’s budget. [B][I]In the long run, it reduces federal spending from 24 percent of the GDP to 20 percent by 2015 and will balance by 2040.[/I][/B]
[B][/B]
But facts aren't good for Obama's re-election so the left will play the class-warfare card and many will unfortunately buy-in.


Outright lie #1 from your link on Big Oil: "[I]It ends the guarantee of decent insurance for senior citizens, breaking Medicare’s bedrock promise."[/I]

I debuked this in an earlier post.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=12thMan;930526]Forced by the GOP House? You mean the least productive Congress since the 40s? You mean the House that passed only 80 friggin bills in 2011? Voted to repeal Obamacare 33 times! and renamed more than a dozen post offices?

If we had some adults on the other side of the aisle your criticism would be valid.[/quote]Adults understand that just because you have checks doesn't mean you still have money.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;930512]Bro, just wait till the Obama campaign starts kicking in those Romney/Ryan Budget/Ayn Rand ads you'll see those number plummet faster than Enron stock.

Most people don't know who he is, but they'll soon find out fast he's the guy that wants to take their [B]SS/medicare/medicaid away[/B].[/quote]

Please show me where PR has said any of this.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;930529]Adults understand that just because you have checks doesn't mean you still have money.[/quote]

Adults yes, the juveniles on the republican side of the isle don't realize that their actions.....excuse me,their inaction makes people suffer needlessly.
Stuff like this needs to stop.............


[url=http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/boehners-office-says-president-avoiding-personal-responsibility-for]Boehner's Office Says Obama Avoiding Personal Responsibility For Drought | TPM Livewire[/url]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;930508]Not so fast my friend: From Rasmussen. "The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows Mitt Romney attracting support from 47% of voters nationwide, while President Obama earns the vote from 44%. Four percent (4%) prefer some other candidate, and four percent (4%) are undecided."

[URL="http://www.politico.com/p/2012-election/polls/president/colorado/colorado-12-presidential-general-election-206"]Colorado '12 Presidential General Election Poll - Wednesday, August 8, 2012 - 2012 Election - POLITICO.com[/URL]

[URL="http://www.gallup.com/poll/election.aspx"]Election 2012 Polling and News, Republican Presidential Candidates, Obama, Interactive Polling Data[/URL]

[URL="http://www.gallup.com/poll/156446/2008-Obama-Voters-McCain-Voters-Switching-Sides.aspx"]More 2008 Obama Voters Than McCain Voters Switching Sides[/URL]

[URL="http://www.gallup.com/poll/156194/Democratic-Voting-Enthusiasm-Down-Sharply-2004-2008.aspx"]Democratic Voting Enthusiasm Down Sharply From 2004, 2008[/URL]

and now that saden's on the hook for more coin.....here's why Romney wins big in Nov. 2012: [URL="http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/why-obama-will-lose-in-a-landslide/"]Root: Why Obama Will Lose in a Landslide | TheBlaze.com[/URL][/quote]


SS33, you have lost your marbles...seek medical attention immediately and if you need help in that regard I'm more than willing to chip in.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

I don't get why creating a climate thats business friendly within reason is a bad thing.

Say you increase the corporate tax rate to 35% instead of Romneys 25% proposal and all of a sudden an evil corporation making $100 million is paying $35 million instead of $25 million.

How many people can be hired with that extra $10 million. How many extra capital assets could be bought. How much R&D could be done with an extra $10 million. And we're going to trust that money to a dysfunctional government?

The bottom line is corporations don't care. They go where it's in their best interest. It's not personal to them. You raise taxes, force them to buy equipment to conform to ridiculous EPA regulations, raise capital gain taxes discouraging people from investing in the stock market and you can watch them go elsewhere along with potential jobs. They want to stay here. Logistically it's better to stay in the States closest to most of their customers, heck a lot of companies want to stay in the States but we're making it harder and harder.

You already see it within the country where practically the only reason anyone stays in New York, DC, and LA is because enough power brokers and decision makers have decided to stay there (ie Networking).

Meanwhile countless companies have moved to lower cost business friendly cities like Dallas Houston, and Atlanta to the point where those respective cities are ranked right behind New York for the [URL="http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2011/cities/"]highest number of corporate HQ's[/URL].

Bottom line we keep trying to punish the companies that could be giving us jobs and producing better and better products with higher taxes, costly regulations, and a population thats finding it harder and harder to invest in the stock market (which saw a lot of middle class people move up a few classes during the bull markets of the 80's and 90's).

We need to drop the grudge with Wall Street and let them get back work and in turn put people back to work. Granted regulations have their place and are vital to fair play but many of the laws passed by this administration have been [URL="http://www.newsmax.com/ErnestIstook/Obama-Regulations-Killing-Jobs/2011/09/02/id/409593"]overkill[/URL]

[YT]b8aEnOu4fLg[/YT]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Giantone;930534]Adults yes, the juveniles on the republican side of the isle don't realize that their actions.....excuse me,their inaction makes people suffer needlessly.
Stuff like this needs to stop.............


[URL="http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/boehners-office-says-president-avoiding-personal-responsibility-for"]Boehner's Office Says Obama Avoiding Personal Responsibility For Drought | TPM Livewire[/URL][/quote]You're right, Obama politicizing every single issue needs to stop. While the House has passed emergency relief to farmers, the Dem controlled Senate is the hold-up. On top of that the Obama Admin is still doing the bidding of the environemntal lobby by forcing corn needed for the food supply to be set aside for ethanol....and also exported.

[url=http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-02/house-republicans-seek-drought-relief-while-delaying-farm-bill.html]House Republicans Pass Drought Relief and Delay Farm Bill - Bloomberg[/url]

[url=http://economywatch.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/13/13260895-white-house-offers-drought-relief-feels-heat-to-waive-ethanol-mandate?lite]White House offers drought relief, feels heat to waive ethanol mandate - Economy Watch[/url]

[url=http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/food/2012/07/drought_and_ethanol_how_congress_mandates_and_the_epa_s_new_policy_are_hurting_americans_.html]Drought and ethanol: How Congress’ mandates and the EPA’s new policy are hurting Americans. - Slate Magazine[/url]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Back to the election. I don't know how the election is going to turn out and I'm pretty sure the Presidential debate is going to be a stutter fest. However I think it's safe to say Ryan will absolutely destroy Biden in the Vice Presidential debate.
[YT]zPxMZ1WdINs[/YT]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;930540]I don't get why creating a climate thats business friendly within reason is a bad thing.

Say you increase the corporate tax rate to 35% instead of Romneys 25% proposal and all of a sudden an evil corporation making $100 million is paying $35 million instead of $25 million. [/quote]

I don't think the corporate tax rate should be raised, it should be lowered, but ALL tax loop holes should be closed at the same time. No idea where you get this. I'll ignore that ridiculous "evil corporation" comment as it's misguided and inaccurate to say the least.


[quote=Dirtbag59;930540]How many people can be hired with that extra $10 million. How many extra capital assets could be bought. How much R&D could be done with an extra $10 million. And we're going to trust that money to a dysfunctional government? [/quote]

10 million? That's cute. How about you try 5 TRILLION dollars. Here people were thinking that corporations were doing bad. Nope, record setting profits and the CASH to prove it.

[url=http://blogs.reuters.com/david-cay-johnston/2012/07/16/idle-corporate-cash-piles-up/]Idle corporate cash piles up | David Cay Johnston[/url]

[IMG]http://blogs.reuters.com/david-cay-johnston/files/2012/07/US_NONFIASSETS0712_SC.jpg[/IMG]

Might want to rethink that because I think 5 trillion dollars put back into the economy can make the world of difference.




[quote=Dirtbag59;930540]The bottom line is corporations don't care. They go where it's in their best interest. It's not personal to them. You raise taxes, force them to buy equipment to conform to ridiculous EPA regulations, raise capital gain taxes discouraging people from investing in the stock market and you can watch them go elsewhere along with potential jobs. They want to stay here. Logistically it's better to stay in the States closest to most of their customers, heck a lot of companies want to stay in the States but we're making it harder and harder. [/quote]

Not true. Even if they DO move overseas, who do you think is going to have the purchasing power to buy their products? The people in the 3rd world country they're at? No, their customers will still be back in the states. Legislation can be passed to deal with companies like this, much like it should be passed on these rich people dropping their US citizenship to avoid taxes. Fine, you want to leave the US, then you stay gone and your products don't enter our country. Somebody will take their place?

[quote=Dirtbag59;930540]Bottom line we keep trying to punish the companies that could be giving us jobs and producing better and better products with higher taxes, costly regulations, and a population thats finding it harder and harder to invest in the stock market (which saw a lot of middle class people move up a few classes during the bull markets of the 80's and 90's).[/quote]

Explain to me how we are "punishing" companies when I showed you directly that they are hording cash? Companies are fine. It's small businesses that need the help.



[quote=Dirtbag59;930540]We need to drop the grudge with Wall Street and let them get back work and in turn put people back to work. Granted regulations have their place and are vital to fair play but many of the laws passed by this administration have been [URL="http://www.newsmax.com/ErnestIstook/Obama-Regulations-Killing-Jobs/2011/09/02/id/409593"]overkill[/URL][/quote]


Hilarious. Explain to me how the Wall Street fiasco happened. De-regulation. Yes, all this happened because of deregulation that happened back during Clinton's term. So, you think deregulating is going to solve it, when history shows you otherwise?


Deregulate EPA restrictions = Companies will abuse the environment

Deregulate Banking industry = Banks will perform recklessly

Deregulate the workers environment = Corporations will create a unsafe environment

(and this applies to the food, drug and health care industries)

You said it yourself. Corporations do not care, and this applies to anything. The are void of morality and conscience. In a perfect world, deregulation would indeed be unnecessary, but as long as humans are involved, it'll be needed to keep corruption in check. Wonder how long its going to take for RedskinsRat to come up with these damn robots we need to run things?. Jesus christ on a cracker he's holding up society's greatness!!

I will agree with you that there are probably too many restrictions on businesses, but I think many of these restrictions probably should be removed for small businesses. I wouldn't put it past many of the larger companies to lobby for these types of legislation in order to stifle competition in their markets.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Also, when people grip about the 1% not paying their fair share, the really are talking about the .0025%. It doesn't take much income to hit the 1%, and most of those guys are probably not tax dodging. It's the super wealthy that are dodging taxes. The Mitt Romneys, Koch brothers, Warren Buffet.....

You don't think these guys below paid big time for legislation for these types of loopholes?


[url=http://blogs.reuters.com/david-cay-johnston/2012/06/06/the-fortunate-400/]The fortunate 400 | David Cay Johnston[/url]


[quote]Six American families paid no federal income taxes in 2009 while making something on the order of $200 million each. This is one of many stunning revelations in new IRS data that deserves a thorough airing in this year’s election campaign.[/quote]


[IMG]http://blogs.reuters.com/david-cay-johnston/files/2012/06/US_HINTS0512_SC1.jpg[/IMG]




[quote]To give this a sense of scale, the top 400 are financial giants compared to Mitt Romney. It took Romney a quarter century of smart work to build up a fortune that his campaign says is between $190 and $250 million. The top 400 made about that much in one year.

Romney says that those of us who tell these hard facts about the zero-to-low tax burdens of the richest Americans are promoting class warfare. Income inequality, according to Romney, should be discussed only “in quiet rooms.”

If you agree with Romney then keep quiet. If not, now is the time to spread the word and encourage robust and thoughtful debate, just as the framers of our Constitution intended.[/quote]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Has my credibility been restored yet Sammy? :laughing-

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;930556]Y

[URL="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-02/house-republicans-seek-drought-relief-while-delaying-farm-bill.html"]House Republicans Pass Drought Relief and Delay Farm Bill - Bloomberg[/URL]

[/quote]


Did you read this?They passed a bill for cattlemen...and NO ONE else, not ranchers ,not farmers.Sammy ...ya got to stop with this.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;930579]Has my credibility been restored yet Sammy? :laughing-[/quote]



....well done!

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;930579]Has my credibility been restored yet Sammy? :laughing-[/quote]While I don't agree with most of your premises/positions, the above two posts are far better than assclowns and other name-calling.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;930575]I don't think the corporate tax rate should be raised, it should be lowered, but ALL tax loop holes should be closed at the same time. No idea where you get this. I'll ignore that ridiculous "evil corporation" comment as it's misguided and inaccurate to say the least.[/quote]Great news, you're on-board with the Ryan plan...which lowers the corporate tax rate and closes many (not all) corporate tax loopholes.

I'm a FairTax person so I say no corporate taxes at all. Want to energize the economy....implement FairTax and watch corporations flock to the U.S. Our unemployment will be sub-4%.


[quote]10 million? That's cute. How about you try 5 TRILLION dollars. Here people were thinking that corporations were doing bad. Nope, record setting profits and the CASH to prove it.

[URL="http://blogs.reuters.com/david-cay-johnston/2012/07/16/idle-corporate-cash-piles-up/"]Idle corporate cash piles up | David Cay Johnston[/URL]

[IMG]http://blogs.reuters.com/david-cay-johnston/files/2012/07/US_NONFIASSETS0712_SC.jpg[/IMG]

Might want to rethink that because I think 5 trillion dollars put back into the economy can make the world of difference.[/quote]Good article. In the current economic and regulatory climate (thank you Obama/Dems) it would be stupid to try to expand a business and hire. The highest cost to a company is always labor/manpower, hence we have record profits and a jobless recovery. With the technologies we have, why would you pay 10 times the labor cost for a function to be completed?

[quote]Explain to me how we are "punishing" companies when I showed you directly that they are hording cash? Companies are fine. It's small businesses that need the help.[/quote]Pending tax increases on business if Obama re-elected, increased healthcare costs/regulations to companies in Obamacare, higher energy costs due to Obama being bought/paid for by the environmental lobby, new rules from the NLRB that protect unions (not union-workers, but the unions as an entity), ridiculous and costly EPA regulations, Dodd-Frank costs including manhours (24M).

And while these costs hurt large corporations (who will ultimatey pass costs on to consumers), they strangle and kill small-business. Don't believe me, just go by any strip mall and look at all the "for lease" signs.

[URL="http://www.forbes.com/sites/garyshapiro/2011/09/28/jobs-sputter-as-laws-and-regulators-go-wild/"]Jobs Sputter as Laws and Regulators Go Wild - Forbes[/URL]

[URL="http://www.sfgate.com/business/bloomberg/article/U-S-Banks-Dodd-Frank-Costs-May-Widen-to-34-3777046.php"]U.S. Banks’ Dodd-Frank Costs May Widen to $34 Billion, S&P Says - SFGate[/URL]

[URL="http://hotair.com/archives/2012/04/17/dodd-frank-costs-us-financial-sector-24-million-man-hours-per-year-for-compliance/"]Dodd-Frank costs US financial sector 24 million man-hours per year for compliance « Hot Air[/URL]


[quote]Hilarious. Explain to me how the Wall Street fiasco happened. De-regulation. Yes, all this happened because of deregulation that happened back during Clinton's term. So, you think deregulating is going to solve it, when history shows you otherwise?[/quote]The Wall St. collapse was triggered by toxic mortgage assets which stemmed from gov't intervention in the market. Most other problems we have in an industry or the economy stem from govt's unnecessary interference.

[quote]You said it yourself. Corporations do not care, and this applies to anything. The are void of morality and conscience.[/quote]and this is how they should operate. There were plenty of regulations in place during the Reagan/Clinton/Bush years of prosperity and no corporations wre running willy-nilly destroying everything in their path. Some were environmentally irresponsible, they got sued or fined and were an example for others. Let a bank or two go belly up and find out how the other banks quickly regulate themselves. Corporations aren't going to do things which hurt their public image or could get them sued....that's what keeps them in check.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Giantone;930592]Did you read this?They passed a bill for cattlemen...and NO ONE else, not ranchers ,not farmers.Sammy ...ya got to stop with this.[/quote]The House bill passed is to provide immediate relief to livestock producers.....while they complete work on a very detailed and complex 5 yr. farm bill to help everyone.

Even if it only delivers partial help, why is it sitting in the Senate......the same Senate that hasn't passed a budget resolution in 3 years.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;930598]While I don't agree with most of your premises/positions, the above two posts are far better than assclowns and other name-calling.[/quote]

I refer to politicians as assclowns because a good majority of them are assclowns. (as noted by our current state)

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=12thMan;930518]Obama didn't spend thirteen years in Congress and neither was he holding himself up as some fiscal hawk. Rep. Ryan also voted to raise the debt ceiling 7 times under Bush. More phone fiscal conservatism. Not surprising.

Thank God the local media outlets around the country aren't drinking the Rove Kool Aid and taking him to task over his record. The Florida newspapers are pounding him in the headlines.

#Awesome[/quote]

We knew the liberal media would jump all over him so thats nothing unexpected. BTW Ryan is not running for president its Romney. Even is you want to look at Ryans budget it does not affect anyone over the age 55 but the liberal press seems to leave that out. Like this from Sunday when he was on CBS.

“My mom is a Medicare senior in Florida,” Ryan said. “Our point is we need to preserve their benefits, because government made promises to them that they’ve organized their retirements around. In order to make sure we can do that, you must reform it for those of us who are younger. And we think these reforms are good reforms that have bipartisan origins. They started from the Clinton commission in the late ’90s.”

HotAir.com called the broadcast cut “journalistic malpractice.”

“Ryan’s plan doesn’t affect those already eligible for Medicare,” Ed Morrissey of HotAir.com wrote. “In fact, one of the conservative criticisms of the plan was that he didn’t give current Medicare recipients the option to choose a private-insurance plan, as younger Americans will get once they become eligible. That’s a pretty newsworthy detail, no?”



Read more on Newsmax.com: [URL="http://www.newsmax.com/US/ryan-nbc-edits-medicare/2012/08/13/id/448406?s=al#ixzz23WmscpEO"]'60 Minutes’ Edits Out Crucial Point by Ryan[/URL]
Important: Do You Support Pres. Obama's Re-Election? [URL="http://polls.newsmax.com/repeal/?PROMO_CODE=B683-1"]Vote Here Now![/URL]