Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Avinash_Tyagi;1100448]Problem wit that is what would he do for 2016? ;) :P[/quote]

run the ball for every single snap. all year. leave them guessing for 2017.

this football stuff does not come easy to you does it?





(^^totally jk sarcasm etc)

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=over the mountain;1100449]only in the world of the internet does someone saying "kirk gives us the best chance to win" actually mean "kirk is a football god".

nothing is absolute or black and white.

circular discussions like this for the next 8 months until TC starts and everyone will peg the skins as potential playoff team.

rinse, wash, repeat.[/quote]

Problem is, Kirk doesn't give us the best chance to win

If we're being completely honest, Colt gives us the best chance to win of the three we have right now.

Kirk only beat the Jaguars, probably the worst team in the league, in all the other games he was either mediocre or horrendous

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Avinash_Tyagi;1100452]Problem is, Kirk doesn't give us the best chance to win

If we're being completely honest, Colt gives us the best chance to win of the three we have right now.

Kirk only beat the Jaguars, probably the worst team in the league, in all the other games he was either mediocre or horrendous[/quote]

He had a heck of a game against Philly

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1100458]He had a heck of a game against Philly[/quote]

He threw that Interception that resulted in Philly's FG that decided the game. (Stuff like that where he kills the teams chances is his flaw)

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Avinash_Tyagi;1100462]He threw that Interception that resulted in Philly's FG that decided the game. (Stuff like that where he kills the teams chances is his flaw)[/quote]

And he also threw for 427 yards and 3 scores. If we had some D that day...

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=over the mountain;1100449]only in the world of the internet does someone saying "kirk gives us the best chance to win" actually mean "kirk is a football god".

nothing is absolute or black and white.

circular discussions like this for the next 8 months until TC starts and everyone will peg the skins as potential playoff team.

rinse, wash, repeat.[/quote]

I strongly doubt that anything done this offseason will have anyone reasonable pegging the Skins as a potential playoff team.

The cleanest thing (which may not be the best thing) would be a coaching and QB reset. As much of a fan of RG3 as I am, I think he'd be better off somewhere else because next offseason will (AGAIN) be all about him. Even though I've got serious doubts about him, if Gruden is indeed coming back I'd rather have him let Cousins and McCoy battle it out. Even typing that sentence depresses me.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

Cooley's 30 minute film breakdown of the offense from the NY game should be required listening.

[url=http://www.espn980.com/audiovault/#]ESPN 980 - WASHINGTON D.C.[/url]

He really goes into comparing McCoy's and Griffin's tendencies. Very telling.

He notes that Griffin does well with plenty of time to throw and concedes the current offensive line can't give him 6 seconds to throw.

Not sure anybody but Dallas can pull that off right now.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1100347]I wonder what the QB plan is if that is the case because there is no FA out there worth it.[/quote]

Cutler
Locker
Bradford

Outside of pure luck, I don't see us finding a franchise QB this offseason. Instead hopefully we'll find a starter who is a competent short-term rental.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

When did Cooley become the guru everybody looks to for analysis? Still waiting to hear explanation what the fuck the "yips" are lol

RG works best outside the pocket best right now, like it or not. He still misses open receivers, so do a lot of QBs. His technique breaks down under pressure.

All of the above, and he's still the best QB on the roster assuming all were healthy and happy. And scheme/playcalling can minimize his weaknesses, a lot. The funny thing is scheme and playcalling should already look that way based on the REST of the offense, not RG. We have a bruiser RB who doesn't get enough carries to get warm even. We have a smallish, quicker line built to move (like on bootlegs, rollouts and screens) not stand in a perfect half circle to make a pocket.

I've never seen a pro HC work so hard to minimize his teams talents and expose the weaknesses. Not talking Gruden vs RG here. Gruden vs Redskins football team.

Like others have said, looks like he's trying to get fired, if you know what your watching when the ball is snapped.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

Yips are the loss of motor skills without an evident explanation. I would say Robert has the most upside but I don't feel he is the best QB on the team right now. If Gruden's game plan is to see who can play his system and weed out those who can't by the end of the season then I guess I am willing to tolerate it but it does wear thin.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Lotus;1100492]Cutler
Locker
Bradford

Outside of pure luck, I don't see us finding a franchise QB this offseason. Instead hopefully we'll find a starter who is a competent short-term rental.[/quote]

That would be Colt McCoy...

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=rocnrik;1100450]Hey guys I'm new to this forum..Is smoot really got this inside info??[/quote]

The only info you can trust is the "unfiltered" news provided by media outlets owned by Dan Snyder.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1100494]When did Cooley become the guru everybody looks to for analysis? Still waiting to hear explanation what the fuck the "yips" are lol

RG works best outside the pocket best right now, like it or not. He still misses open receivers, so do a lot of QBs. His technique breaks down under pressure.

All of the above, and he's still the best QB on the roster assuming all were healthy and happy. And scheme/playcalling can minimize his weaknesses, a lot. The funny thing is scheme and playcalling should already look that way based on the REST of the offense, not RG. We have a bruiser RB who doesn't get enough carries to get warm even. We have a smallish, quicker line built to move (like on bootlegs, rollouts and screens) not stand in a perfect half circle to make a pocket.

I've never seen a pro HC work so hard to minimize his teams talents and expose the weaknesses. Not talking Gruden vs RG here. Gruden vs Redskins football team.

Like others have said, looks like he's trying to get fired, if you know what your watching when the ball is snapped.[/quote]

Pro bowl TE that played a long time in the league at a high level that seems to know what is going on on the field and in the organization from having been there and experiencing it. I guess I don't think it is a stretch that he knows what he is talking about.

Availability is also a factor for his guru status. He does a weekly film breakdown on the offense and defense. I would probably listen to the Rotten1980 film breakdown if there was one to see if it was good.

Somebody linked an article in another thread on the offensive line from a bleacher report beat reporter who splits his time covering English Premier League soccer. It was pretty superficial and lacked context but did make a few obvious points such as having Compton and polumbus as our tackles is bad.

Cooley's analysis is better than Bleacher Report's.

Why don't you think Cooley is worth listening to?

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

Anyone who studies film and has played the game is worth a listen IMO. Cooley isn't all knowing but his analysis seems to be pretty accurate and fair the majority of the time.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

no axe to grind.......seems fair and accurate. Really like his line analysis. Like picks out the things I miss from not running the film over a few times. Like NOT the lineman on that sack, missed assignment on a tight end etc.......
Good Stuff

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1100537]Why don't you think Cooley is worth listening to?[/quote]

Because it doesn't fit his narrative he's been pushing that it's all Gruden and the OL's fault, when the reality of it is that it's his hero's fault. Even Cooley mentions that when fans look at it, they'll just blame the OL, but not the professionals and people that know.





[quote=Rotten1980;1100494]When did Cooley become the guru everybody looks to for analysis? Still waiting to hear explanation what the fuck the "yips" are lol[/quote]

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yips]Yips - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

You don't even know what he's talking about, yet you're question HIM on breaking down game film? Amazing. I think I'll take a guy's opinion on game film, who was in the league for a good amount of years and that played at a high level over a fan that's start struck by ESPN highlights of his favorite player.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1100547]Anyone who studies film and has played the game is worth a listen IMO. Cooley isn't all knowing but his analysis seems to be pretty accurate and fair the majority of the time.[/quote]

I agree. Cooley's analysis is good. He calls it like he sees it, the good and the bad is bad. Unfortunately there's more bad now than good. I also think a big reason Cooley's analysis is good is because he's analyzing the team team he played for not so long ago.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

I'll post it here, if we keep RG3 how would you react to signing Vick as the Third QB?

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2014/12/18/michael-vick-says-playing-for-redskins-would-be-a-dream-come-true/?tid=pm_sports_pop]Michael Vick says playing for Redskins would be a ‘dream come true’ - The Washington Post[/url]


I think if RG stays its a strong possibility that Cousins will be traded. I know a lot of you would blow a gasket if that happened, but call it a hunch...

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

Vick would be happy to just have a job. He doesn't seem like Gruden's cup of tea.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1100579]I'll post it here, if we keep RG3 how would you react to signing Vick as the Third QB?

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2014/12/18/michael-vick-says-playing-for-redskins-would-be-a-dream-come-true/?tid=pm_sports_pop]Michael Vick says playing for Redskins would be a ‘dream come true’ - The Washington Post[/url]


I think if RG stays its a strong possibility that Cousins will be traded. I know a lot of you would blow a gasket if that happened, but call it a hunch...[/quote]

Just my two cents, but I'd be surprised if more than one of our current QB's (and maybe none) are on the opening day roster next year.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

Vick could probably still start for a handful of teams - but he would only be a stop gap at best....maybe 1 or 2 quality seasons out of him before he settles permanently into that veteran backup role. Although i always imagined Vick coming in somewhere sort of like when Jeff Garcia saved the eagles in 2006...

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1100562]Because it doesn't fit his narrative he's been pushing that it's all Gruden and the OL's fault, when the reality of it is that it's his hero's fault. Even Cooley mentions that when fans look at it, they'll just blame the OL, but not the professionals and people that know.[/quote]

Admittedly, I've had a really long day. I really don't understand your meaning.

I've heard him call out the play calling, the QB's, the line, the TEs, the RBs, the recievers, the special teams, the defense and the coaching.

The single biggest factor of who he blames for mistakes depends on which play or series he is talking about and who made the mistake.

That standard seems pretty fair to me.

EDIT:

Nevermind. The lightbulb came on. Just got your post. Sorry.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1100579]I'll post it here, if we keep RG3 how would you react to signing Vick as the Third QB?

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2014/12/18/michael-vick-says-playing-for-redskins-would-be-a-dream-come-true/?tid=pm_sports_pop]Michael Vick says playing for Redskins would be a ‘dream come true’ - The Washington Post[/url]


I think if RG stays its a strong possibility that Cousins will be traded. I know a lot of you would blow a gasket if that happened, but call it a hunch...[/quote]

In all reality, Vick has been on the down slope of his career since 2011. Let him stay his ass anywhere away from DC. We don't need another "I'm just looking to finish out my career" kinda dude. It's like McNabb all over again.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

As we are not 1 or 2 players....."away". We need to build this team(or rebuild). In reality, we are probably 10 starters away from a serious threat. No Vick's.....No Cutlers.
Build.....don't try and patch

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Hog1;1100586]As we are not 1 or 2 players....."away". We need to build this team(or rebuild). In reality, we are probably 10 starters away from a serious threat. No Vick's.....No Cutlers.
Build.....don't try and patch[/quote]

Good coaching, a solid draft and FA signings can make this team a contender.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

that too....

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1100587]Good coaching, a solid draft and FA signings can make this team a contender.[/quote]

And a miracle; don't forget the miracle it is a key ingredient.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Hog1;1100586]As we are not 1 or 2 players....."away". We need to build this team(or rebuild). In reality, we are probably 10 starters away from a serious threat. No Vick's.....No Cutlers.
Build.....don't try and patch[/quote]

Fair enough. But if we say no Vicks and Cutlers, who starts for us day one in September? Famous Jameis?

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1100587]Good coaching, a solid draft and FA signings can make this team a contender.[/quote]

In three years at best

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Lotus;1100595]Fair enough. But if we say no Vicks and Cutlers, who starts for us day one in September? Famous Jameis?[/quote]

Vick's a backup at best; Cutler is a turnover prone QB that struggles in poor protection. Why in the world would we want any of these guys as a possible starting option?

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1100600]Vick's a backup at best; Cutler is a turnover prone QB that struggles in poor protection. Why in the world would we want any of these guys as a possible starting option?[/quote]

I forget the program I was listening to but they were talking to Herm Edwards who believes that they are requiring Cutler to throw too much in the offense. He has been at 600+ attempts but his best seasons have been around 400+ attempts with a solid run game. The Bears happen to have a solid run game but still rely on a pass heavy attack. With the exception of last year that sounds kind of the play Gruden had with the Bengals. My personal opinion is that is a huge bit of guaranteed money that I am not comfortable with the Redskins taking on the cap.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1100600]Vick's a backup at best; Cutler is a turnover prone QB that struggles in poor protection. Why in the world would we want any of these guys as a possible starting option?[/quote]

I'm not a fan of either Vick or Cutler.

But we still are left with the question: who starts the first game in September? Locker?

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Lotus;1100604]I'm not a fan of either Vick or Cutler.

But we still are left with the question: who starts the first game in September? [B]Locker?[/B][/quote]

<shudders>

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Lotus;1100595]Fair enough. But if we say no Vicks and Cutlers, who starts for us day one in September? Famous Jameis?[/quote]

Well....that's the question, right?
Me personally, if I were Jay, I would milk everything I could out of our current crop of QB stars and build the team around them. Hope somebody rises to the top. I would take a lesson from the Hogs and the benefit they provided an average-good QB in one...Mark Rypien. He was a stone cold killer behind that line in it's heyday. A couple of years later, with some degradation in the line...he was avg to unemployed.
Our guys would look much.....shinier behind the protection of a great line and improved running game it would bring.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Lotus;1100604]I'm not a fan of either Vick or Cutler.

But we still are left with the question: who starts the first game in September? Locker?[/quote]

I say RGIII, Cousins or Mariota (if RGIII is traded).

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

With the rules so heavy in favor for the offense can you imagine this team's offense in the old days when the defenders could actually hit somebody ..I don't get why Gruden is forcing RGIII to sit in the pocket when it collapses every other play..RGIII is taking more hits in the pocket than if he rolled out..any QB given 5 seconds in a pocket would be good ..RGIII is lucky if he gets 2 seconds ..the oline,Rb's and tight ends have got to block better for any of this to work..you can change coaches or Qb none of it matters with solid line play..

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=rocnrik;1100608]With the rules so heavy in favor for the offense can you imagine this team's offense in the old days when the defenders could actually hit somebody ..I don't get why Gruden is forcing RGIII to sit in the pocket when it collapses every other play..RGIII is taking more hits in the pocket than if he rolled out..any QB given 5 seconds in a pocket would be good ..RGIII is lucky if he gets 2 seconds ..the oline,Rb's and tight ends have got to block better for any of this to work..you can change coaches or Qb none of it matters with solid line play..[/quote]RG3 and RG2 didn't want a running QB offense.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1100611]RG3 and RG2 didn't want a running QB offense.[/quote]

And this is just another example of the dysfunction of the organization and its lack of long term vision. Trade away a boatload of draft picks for a running QB, then two years later eschew a mobile QB type offense. Whatever.

As far as a QB for next year: as we are in rebuild mode and our o-line is a travesty, the last thing we should be doing is trying to train a young QB. We should bring in a veteran QB while we build a decent line, then go after a franchise qb.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

[quote=Lotus;1100604]I'm not a fan of either Vick or Cutler.

But we still are left with the question: who starts the first game in September? Locker?[/quote]

I dont know and I really not concerned about that question as much as who gets to pick the starting QB? My preference would be the HC and Offense Coordinator. Not Bruce or Dan. Known fact Dan basically told Jay to put RG3 back in there before the season was over. It was made easier when midget face went out injuried.

Re: RG3 and Gruden?
 

Trading RGIII is [U]not[/U] the answer to the Skins offensive problems. Continuing to work with him to help him get better and putting better players around him might be the answer.

1. Hire a QB coach.

2. Get in FA or trade for:

- A RB who is already a good pass protector. He doesn't need to be a star. We just need to make sure we have someone who can do this well.

- A big TE who is known to be a very good blocker.

- One starter quality OG.

3. Draft the best OT in the entire draft in Round 1.

4. Jay Gruden needs to spend time with Robert one-on-one in a relaxed environment studying film together and getting to know one another better. They need to do a vulcan mind meld so that Robert knows the offense and Jay's offensive philosophy so well that the HC is practically on the field with him. I see no reason why they shouldn't do this. I hear that they practically live across the street from one another. They could do it at one of their homes while their families visit.

I'm sure there are more things that could be done for Robert and the other QB's, but I think the things I listed would be a good start.