Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

after brunell threw for 57 yards (total!) in a playoff win vs tampa, gibbs had nothing bad to say about him. gibbs is Mr. "fighting his guts out."

so, yeah. I wouldn't be looking to him for confirmation of who can and can't play in the league. he's just never going to dunk on anyone ever.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1119530]Exactly, it was a put down to even think that he would throw for such a small number of yards when his track record says otherwise.[/quote]

It was actually an indictment of our overall QB group. Yes, he should throw for more than 3,200 if he plays all 16 games but with the 'dedication to the run' he may not be slinging the rock as much as last year. He's just as capable of putting up a 300 yard game as a 140 yard stinker.

His numbers are actually rather irrelevant, hell Griffin put up average numbers in 2013. The problem is when the numbers are hollow, which I expect most of them to be.

I'll happily be wrong about Cousins but everything I've seen from him shouts mediocre. He will make the occasional big play but I haven't seen anything from him (college or pro) that leads me to believe that he's going to develop into the type of QB that be a consistent winner and will lead a franchise.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Paintrain;1119563]It was actually an indictment of our overall QB group. Yes, he should throw for more than 3,200 if he plays all 16 games but with the 'dedication to the run' he may not be slinging the rock as much as last year. He's just as capable of putting up a 300 yard game as a 140 yard stinker.

His numbers are actually rather irrelevant, hell Griffin put up average numbers in 2013. The problem is when the numbers are hollow, which I expect most of them to be.

I'll happily be wrong about Cousins but everything I've seen from him shouts mediocre. He will make the occasional big play but I haven't seen anything from him (college or pro) that leads me to believe that he's going to develop into the type of QB that be a consistent winner and will lead a franchise.[/quote]

You do realize that as bad as they were last year, the 3 combined for 4461 yards, 18TD's and 18INT's right? If KC just does what he did last year he will end up with 4500 yards, 27TD's and 24INTs.. Those aren't shabby numbers..

You and 30gut are about as negative as I could imagine about a young QB with a lot of upside.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=RedskinJake;1119564]You do realize that as bad as they were last year, the 3 combined for 4461 yards, 18TD's and 18INT's right? If KC just does what he did last year he will end up with 4500 yards, 27TD's and 24INTs.. Those aren't shabby numbers..

You and 30gut are about as negative as I could imagine about a young QB with a lot of upside.[/quote]

Honestly numbers are meaningless. If he puts up 4500 yards, 27 TD and 24 INT they may win 5 games. You can't have a 1:1 TD to INT ratio and be a winning QB. Yards are a hollow stat unless you're building or playing with a lead.

I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic. I don't see the upside and I hope that I'm wrong. I see a QB who will make 2-3 wow throws a game, 10 throws he and any other QB should make and 5 throws when you ask what the hell was that.

I don't wish him to be a turnover machine, I hope he's improved in that area.
I don't wish that he makes poor decisions when his pre-determined choice isn't there, I hope he's improved in that area.
I don't wish that he crumbles when adversity hits, I hope he's improved in that area.

Bottom line, I HOPE that I am completely wrong about him, I just don't see it yet.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=RedskinJake;1119564]You do realize that as bad as they were last year, the 3 combined for 4461 yards, 18TD's and 18INT's right? If KC just does what he did last year he will end up with 4500 yards, 27TD's and 24INTs.. Those aren't shabby numbers..

You and 30gut are about as negative as I could imagine about a young QB with a lot of upside.[/quote]

But how much of those numbers were in garbage time?

When the defense is ahead by 14 points they tend to play you much differently, which certainly happened to us a lot last year. Griffin got completely squelched in his games, and then the defenses backed off into a no-big-play approach. Same with Cousins and McCoy but they kept us competitive for longer.

We need the running game and defense to keep us in the game, so that defenses can be kept honest enough, and hopefully Kirk can do enough to take advantage.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Can this mother fucker be cleared already? What the hell is taking so long?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[QUOTE=30gut;1119545][FONT="Book Antiqua"][SIZE="4"]“I think first of all the thing that you can say about Robert Griffin is that he won the division his very first year, as a rookie,” Gibbs told the Junkies on 106.7 The Fan Tuesday morning. “We all saw him. He made great plays. You can’t go in that division and win the division unless you’ve got a quarterback that’s really operating. I think he’s proven to people he can do that, and so I think it’s a matter of health, the health issues, making sure that he’s totally healthy.



“And I think you’ve got somebody there that’s got great talent,” Gibbs went on. “Things haven’t gone his way. He’s been hurt. But I think you’ve got somebody there that is a real talent, and has proven that he can do it. It’s not like we’re guessing. This guy’s won the NFC East, and I know how hard that is to do. So I think we’ve got a great talent there. We’re going to start Kirk [Cousins] this week, [and] I think there’s probably still some questions there about Robert, making sure he’s totally healthy.”....He said he has met Kirk Cousins while during some promotional work in the D.C. area, and said that “everybody really liked him as a person.”



“I think he’s very talented, obviously, to be in a position like this and be a starter in the NFL,” Gibbs said. “A quarterback’s very dependent on everything around him, and I think he played extremely well in preseason. And so I think all of us who are Redskins fans, I know everybody’s going to crowd that stadium and be in there and be pulling for him. And so we just hope we get off to a good start.”

[/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]



Dude, give it a rest already. Robert is done in DC..

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Paintrain;1119566]...You can't have a 1:1 TD to INT ratio and be a winning QB.[/quote]

1981 Redskins - Joe Theisman - 19TD/20INT - 8-8 Record
1985 Redskins - Theisman/Schroeder - 13TD/21INT - 10-6 Record
1986 Redskins - Jay Schroeder - 22TD/22INT - 12-4 Record
1990 Redskins - Rypien/Humphries/Rutledge - 21TD/22INT - 10-6 Record
1992 Redskins - Rypien - 13TD/17INT - 9-7 Record

1998 Redskins - Trent Green/Gus Frerotte - 24TD/14INT - 6-10 Record
2003 Redskins - Patrick Ramsey/Tim Hasselbeck - 21TD/16INT - 5-11 Record
2006 Redskins - Brunell/Campbell - 18TD/10INT - 5-11 Record
2009 Redskins - Jason Campbell - 20TD/15INT - 4-12 Record

You can focus all you want on TD/INT ratios but the reality is that it barely matters. It's a facet but its not the end all be all of metrics.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Paintrain;1119563]It was actually an indictment of our overall QB group. Yes, he should throw for more than 3,200 if he plays all 16 games but with the 'dedication to the run' he may not be slinging the rock as much as last year. He's just as capable of putting up a 300 yard game as a 140 yard stinker.

His numbers are actually rather irrelevant, hell Griffin put up average numbers in 2013. The problem is when the numbers are hollow, which I expect most of them to be.

I'll happily be wrong about Cousins but everything I've seen from him shouts mediocre. He will make the occasional big play but I haven't seen anything from him (college or pro) that leads me to believe that he's going to develop into the type of QB that be a consistent winner and will lead a franchise.[/quote]

This isn't about Kirk being a franchise quarterback for the Redskins. It's about the best option to make it through this season. I mean we all know that in all likelihood the franchise quarterback is not on the roster yet.

And that's probably a good thing, we don't need to get our franchise guy killed this year. Better we should build the team around him, especially the offensive line, and then letting Scott pick the right guy.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1119553].....Over half the members cite his 2012 as the reason Kaepernick is a top 10 QB and the fact the fact the 49ers were 30th in passing yardage is because of poor play calling, a bad
o-line and bad receivers. Nothing to do with the fact Kaepernick sucks.[/quote]
Interesting, very interesting view point. You think Kaepernick [I][B][U]sucks.[/U][/B][/I] Which I have to believe is a hyperbolic way of saying you think he's a much below average QB?

The only stats read in your post was passing yardage, which makes me wonder if passing yardage is your focal measure of QB worth or suckitude.

I think many fans are distracted by volume passing numbers and equate volume with quality. Not sure if you are one or not but that's what your post suggests to me.

I don't think any excuse needs to made for the 49ers being 30th in passing yardage in 2012. First of all if you are gonna refer to the passing yardage from 2012 you have to remember that Kaep didn't start playing til [B][I][U]week 10.[/U][/I][/B]. Also in 2012 Kaepernick was #1 in a little stat known as yards per attempt. San Fran took this QB who sucks and finished #11 in PPG and YPG. When it comes to efficiency they were even better: FBO ranks the 2012 49ers 7th in offensive efficiency 5th in pass efficiency and 3rd in run efficiency. Those are outstanding numbers and Kaep was the catalyst the engine for that offense with his arm and his legs. Individually in 2012 FBO rated Kaep 13th in DYAR 3rd in DVOA and 3rd in QBR.

You are creating revisionist history when you say Kaep sucks and mention 2012, lol dude was a pass away from being a SB champ.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=RedskinJake;1119564]You and 30gut are about as negative as I could imagine about a young QB with a lot of upside.[/quote]I could easily same the same for this entire thread. Your statement about a young QB with a lot of upside applies just as readily to Griffin(actually younger) as it does to Kirk.

But what makes you say I'm as 'negative as you could imagine' about Kirk?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1119580]I could easily same the same for this entire thread. Your statement about a young QB with a lot of upside applies just as readily to Griffin(actually younger) as it does to Kirk.

But what makes you say I'm as 'negative as you could imagine' about Kirk?[/quote]

Truthfully, I just think you're negative period but I could dig up most of your posts and document your negativity towards Cousins. Anyone could probably say the same about me with RG3. I've never felt that a dual threat type QB was someone that I wanted on my team. I'm a pocket QB guy. But at least I'll cop to my bias against RG3. He never has shown me enough to believe in him. Never. Fun to watch at times? sure. NFL QB? nope. Kirk fits the mold and if he's stable, gives us something to build on. He doesn't need to be Peyton Manning. He just needs to be Chad Pennington to give us a shot. That said, I think he has tremendous upside. Give him 26 more starts to get him to the 35 that RG3 got and I have a high level of confidence that he's a productive QB putting us in position to win.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1119577]Interesting, very interesting view point. You think Kaepernick [I][B][U]sucks.[/U][/B][/I] Which I have to believe is a hyperbolic way of saying you think he's a much below average QB?

The only stats read in your post was passing yardage, which makes me wonder if passing yardage is your focal measure of QB worth or suckitude.

I think many fans are distracted by volume passing numbers and equate volume with quality. Not sure if you are one or not but that's what your post suggests to me.

I don't think any excuse needs to made for the 49ers being 30th in passing yardage in 2012. First of all if you are gonna refer to the passing yardage from 2012 you have to remember that Kaep didn't start playing til [B][I][U]week 10.[/U][/I][/B]. Also in 2012 Kaepernick was #1 in a little stat known as yards per attempt. San Fran took this QB who sucks and finished #11 in PPG and YPG. When it comes to efficiency they were even better: FBO ranks the 2012 49ers 7th in offensive efficiency 5th in pass efficiency and 3rd in run efficiency. Those are outstanding numbers and Kaep was the catalyst the engine for that offense with his arm and his legs. Individually in 2012 FBO rated Kaep 13th in DYAR 3rd in DVOA and 3rd in QBR.

You are creating revisionist history when you say Kaep sucks and mention 2012, lol dude was a pass away from being a SB champ.[/quote]

i think you missed the point. he didn't say kaep sucked in 2012, he said he's sucked since then, but 49ers homers point to his performance from 3 years ago to justify him as a good qb in 2015, ignoring more current evidence to the contrary.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1119553]Over half the members cite his 2012 as the reason Kaepernick is a top 10 QB ... His downfall was when they put a spy on him, he can't seem to find the void in the pass coverage the spy leaves, he is also a one read QB, locks on receivers and takes off feeling pressure that isn't there. It took a while to expose his flaws.

...

... The blind Kap homers don't see that. I think the ones who think RG3 2012 will return are cut from the same mold, they don't see his flaws, at least there aren't that many of them. (Aren't that many blind faith RG3 supporters)[/quote]

[quote=30gut;1119577]Interesting, very interesting view point. You think Kaepernick [I][B][U]sucks.[/U][/B][/I] Which I have to believe is a hyperbolic way of saying you think he's a much below average QB?

...

You are creating revisionist history when you say Kaep sucks and mention 2012, lol dude was a pass away from being a SB champ.[/quote]

His point, as I understood it, was that Kap was perceived as having a great 2012, but, since then, he has sucked b/c defenses figured him out and he can't adjust his talents to the traditional offense. Further, that those who say NOW that Kap is a great QB are those who point to his 2012 season (hmm, that sounds familiar).

In other words, Kap apologists seek to ignore three years of less than stellar (an at times very poor) play and point, instead, his success in a style of offense no longer effective as an every down system.

Since 2012, RGIII has been, on his best days, average and injury prone. If you remove 2012 as a never to be repeated fluke, RGIII simply has not shown much of anything despite being given every opportunity to take and run away with the job.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

The saga continues..

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/09/jay-gruden-too-soon-to-say-who-the-no-2-qb-on-sunday-will-be/#comment-4510546]Jay Gruden: Too soon to say who the No. 2 QB on Sunday will be | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=RedskinJake;1119581]Truthfully, I just think you're negative period but I could dig up most of your posts and document your negativity towards Cousins. [/quote]I think you are confusing my unpopular opinion about Griffin with having a overly negative view of Kirk. Not a big deal, you can think whatever you like. But saying that I'm as negative as you can imagine about Kirk just ain't true.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

looking forward to 1 pm, Sunday, September 13th ...... yeehaw!

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1119580]I could easily same the same for this entire thread. Your statement about a young QB with a lot of upside applies just as readily to Griffin(actually younger) as it does to Kirk.

But what makes you say I'm as 'negative as you could imagine' about Kirk?[/quote]

To almost everyone else but you, RGIII's upside is mostly imaginary at this point. He has a powerful arm and is a decent runner. However, he is hesitant in the pocket, cannot perform the 3-step drop and throw with any consistency, and has zero pocket instinct. Throw in consistent examples of his inability or refusal to follow coaching instruction over the years, and his off the field drama, and you have a hot mess.

Other than his arm strength and (now reduced) athleticism, where is the upside? Again, I love the guy and was hoping he was THE guy. I bought the Kool-Aid over the summer that he was improving. I [I]wanted[/I] it to be true.

Then I saw him in the first two preseason games. Turns out the new boss was the same as the old boss so it was time for me to pick up my guitar and play.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1119587]I think you are confusing my unpopular opinion about Griffin with having a overly negative view of Kirk. Not a big deal, you can think whatever you like. But saying that I'm as negative as you can imagine about Kirk just ain't true.[/quote]

I think people are confusing your abrasive, " i have to be right" attitude as negative.
well...that, and your negative attitude.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Also from PFT..

[quote] Now that Kirk Cousins has been named the starting quarterback, Shanahan thinks a good season is coming.

“Washington will be much better than people think they will,” Shanahan said. [/quote]

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=over the mountain;1119588]looking forward to 1 pm, Sunday, September 13th ...... yeehaw![/quote]

^this
I'll either be drinking to celebrate, or to forget.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

I feel like this is the whole Jabar Gaffney conversation with Goat all over again. Except this time, it's about RG3.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1119601]I feel like this is the whole Jabar Gaffney conversation with Goat all over again. Except this time, it's about RG3.[/quote]

don't you dare sully the name of the legendary jabar gaffney.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1119601]I feel like this is the whole Jabar Gaffney conversation with Goat all over again. Except this time, it's about RG3.[/quote]

Holy Crap ....

It's like déjà vu all over again!

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1119584]His point, as I understood it, was that Kap was perceived as having a great 2012, but, since then, he has sucked b/c defenses figured him out and he can't adjust his talents to the traditional offense. Further, that those who say NOW that Kap is a great QB are those who point to his 2012 season (hmm, that sounds familiar).

In other words, Kap apologists seek to ignore three years of less than stellar (an at times very poor) play and point, instead, his success in a style of offense no longer effective as an every down system.

Since 2012, RGIII has been, on his best days, average and injury prone. If you remove 2012 as a never to be repeated fluke, RGIII simply has not shown much of anything despite being given every opportunity to take and run away with the job.[/quote]

Exactly.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Shanarat wants credit if cousins blows up. One thing we can all agree on is the mastermind/offensive genius or whatever he's called has one of the biggest egos in the world.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Shanahan has successfully sold the story that he wasn't fired for his w-l record, league worst defense, historically bad special teams nor overall abysnal tenure as GM nor his incessant leaks to the media.

Nope, RGIII got him fired nevermind in 2013 the best unit on the team was the offense.

I tip my cap to Shanahan for relentlessly pushing his no fault narrative. Many people buy in. Hook, line and sinker.
He would be an expert at counter intelligence and deception planning.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

I would suggest few in NFL circles buy the Shanahan "No-Fault" narrative. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that, to anyone outside looking in, there was plenty of blame to spread around. From Shanahan to Griffin to Snyder.

Pretty sure Shanny would be coaching again today if he had successfully sold the no-fault narrative you describe.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

It's STILL not to late to re-start the.................hate fest, right?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1119609]Nope, RGIII got him fired nevermind in 2013 the best unit on the team was the offense.[/quote]

Exactly.

Wouldn't Kyle be the perfect guy to hire next year after Jay and Kirk are fired to resurrect the flat lining Griffin?

Everyone that cites 2012 as the reason to hang onto Griffin surely would surely want to bring Kyle's zone read option wizardry back. We could bring back smaller more mobile offensive lineman that can get to the second level and block in space.

It is, after all, the only system Griffin has won actual NFL games in. He might make it half way through a season before he breaks something again.

If we're chasing success from a few years ago we could cut Griffin and sign Tim Tebow.

He has had better success in the playoffs than Griffin.

Or, we could stick with the proven McLovin plan and build a team with depth across the board and plug in QBs until we hit on one that works.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1119625]We could bring back smaller more mobile offensive lineman that can get to the second level and block in space.

It is, after all, the only system Griffin has won actual NFL games in. He might make it half way through a season before he breaks something again.

If we're chasing success from a few years ago we could cut Griffin and sign Tim Tebow.

He has had better success in the playoffs than Griffin.

Or, we could stick with the proven McLovin plan and build a team with depth across the board and plug in QBs until we hit on one that works.[/quote]

Maybe Spurrier is looking to come back to the NFL for 2 years to pull down another 25mil..

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Hog1;1119615]It's STILL not to late to re-start the.................hate fest, right?[/quote]Lol, no need to re-start, it never ends! Just keep it going.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1119625]Exactly.....It is, after all, the only system Griffin has won actual NFL games in. He might make it half way through a season before he breaks something again.
[/quote]Jol, "Exactly" as if your post had anything at all to do with the point of my post. The overriding theme in this thread is that responding to a post only needs to be incidentally remotely related to the actual post.

Also by completely avoiding the point of the post you actually illustrate how the facts don't really matter anymore. Mike Shanahan prolly won't (and shouldn't) ever get an NFL HC job again. But he's done a bang-up job of shifting any discussion about his firing away from the actual reasons he was fired and onto Griffin and Dan.

Also, a quick point of fact, that will likely be ignored or purposefully conflated. But this is the second time you've mentioned read-option as a cause for Griffin injuries yet neither of his injury occurred doing read-option.

And, my post clearly states I was talking about 2013. I wasn't lauding the offense either I was just reminding people that despite the feeling and perceptions about the offense that year the offense was still the best unit on the team.

None of which has anything to do with....
[quote=DYoungJelly;1119625]
Or, we could stick with the proven McLovin plan and build a team with depth across the board and plug in QBs until we hit on one that works.[/quote]But kudos, almost Mike Shanahan level of topic shifting.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1119628]Jol, "Exactly" as if your post had anything at all to do with the point of my post. Its an illustration of how the facts don't really matter anymore. Mike Shanahan prolly won't (and shouldn't) ever get an NFL HC job again. But he's done a bang-up job of shifting any discussion about his firing away from the actual reasons he was fired and onto Griffin and Dan.

Also, a quick point of fact, that will likely be ignored or purposefully conflated. But this is the second time you've mentioned read-option as a cause for Griffin injuries yet neither of his injury occurred doing read-option.

And, my post clearly states I was talking about 2013.[/quote]

I'm not claiming the read option broke him, RG2 and RG3 were passively at least.

I'm assuming that's why they no longer wanted him to be an option QB

I have no idea if the next injury will be caused by him holding on to the ball too long, scrambling into a 340lb nose tackle running full speed, trying to recover a fumble, when he shouldn't have been in the game, or jumping awkwardly out of bounds trying to complete a pass.

BTW, I hate the red lobster. His ego and the success he had here is literally identical to Griffin's plenty of blame to go around.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1119629]....RG2 and RG3 were passively at least.

I'm assuming that's why they no longer wanted him to be an option QB[/quote]A couple things. Bringing up RGII carries very little weight in my opinion, he's an outsider that has 0 power. Second an oft overlooked point of fact is that Griffin actually ran read-option in the 2013 season from week 4 on. So all the rhetoric or posturing about whether or not Griffin will/will not likes/doesn't/didn't like read-option is moot because the fact is that he will run read-option because he did run read-option in the 2013 season, but Mike's agenda induced amnesia doesn't recall. And lets not forget that in 2013 he was coming off major knee surgery.
Any sane person would be more then a little gunshy/protective when it comes to a major knee injury. (neither here nor there but I read somewhere that after acl tears players are nervous about sliding feet first because they're worried about getting their foot snagged.)

[quote]I have no idea if the next injury[/quote]We also have no idea whether he'll get injured at all or injured at a higher rate then any other QB. Its the NFL, everyone gets hurt. Its why being available is such a rare and valuable quality.

[quote]BTW, I hate the red lobster. His ego and the success he had here is literally identical to Griffin's plenty of blame to go around.[/quote]
But unsurprisingly your comments focused not on the myriad of Mike's coaching mistakes but upon Griffin.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

RGIII listens to RGII. He is basically and NFL dance mom. Dan listens(ed) to RGIII.

I don't know what to say regarding the certainty of injury. I really don't.

Mike Shanahan was fired almost two years ago. RGIII is still on the roster.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

It's hilarious watching 30 argue a point that he agreed with. Dude is clown shoes.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=30gut;1119628]Jol, "Exactly" as if your post had anything at all to do with the point of my post. The overriding theme in this thread is that responding to a post only needs to be incidentally remotely related to the actual post..[/quote]

No. The over-riding theme of this thread is your consistent attempt to deflect legitimate, relevant points by asserting they are unresponsive.

Your original assertion was that (1) the RGIII run R/O offense was the best thing about Shanny's team; (2) Shanny was blaming his failure on RGIII and essentially getting away with it.

DYJ's point, which was obvious to everyone else but you, was that - yes, you [I]are[/I] correct. RGIII [I]was[/I] successful in Shanny's Read Option offense. In fact, it was the ONLY offense in which RGIII - who you assert is a viable fall back option at the QB position - has been successful. Since that's the case, in order to develop or otherwise keep RGIII a viable option, we should hire the designer of that offense, K. Shanahan and get personnel to fit the design. Or ... we could stay with the current SM plan of big burly guys and a more traditional offense - for which RGIII has never shown an aptitude.

DYJ just forgot to turn on his sarcasm fault.

DYJ even agreed that Shanny needed to go and, oh by the way, [I]is gone[/I]. Further, that everyone, Shanahan, RGIII, and Dan were to blame for the fiasco that was 2013. You, however, [I]appear[/I] to excuse the RGIII of any fault. Implying instead that he was a good little soldier who would do as told ("He played the RO in 2013; Of course after an injury he was gun shy"). So to be clear, Shanny had plenty to be held accountable for in 2013; we all agree on that. Contrary to your prior assertion, it does not appear anyone on this board is buying his "blame it all on RGIII and DS" routine.

By the way, facts do matter to others, but, apparently, not to you:
- Many on and off the field factors caused the failures of 2013 and their was plenty of blame to go around - including RGIII;
- RGIII has never shown any aptitude for any offense other than MS/KS's read option;
- RGIII has suffered more injuries and missed more games than any other "breakout" QB from 2012 (Luck, Wilson, Kapernick - how many games have they missed? Combined?);
- The only offense RGIII succeeded in is built on a premise completely different from that which SM is attempting to build and one for which he has not shown an aptitude and in which he has shown any growth.

[quote=30gut;1119628]But kudos, almost Mike Shanahan level of topic shifting.[/quote]

No. He did not topic shift. He addressed specific points you raised, and highlighted flaws in your over arching premise (RGIII a viable fall-back option) by adoption and application of your argument regarding the appropriate blame to leveled at Shanahan.

Again, you either intentionally or unintentionally fail to recognize and acknowledge relevant, responsive points. If the former, well then you are an obtuse troll. If the later, a little consideration for the fact that we may actually be able to grasp your brilliance would be appreciated.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

^ He's hopeless, Joe. I simply put him on my ignore list.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Well, that's just the thing. He does, at times, raise legitimate, interesting points that could form the basis for a good discussion. [Yes, I disagree that, at this stage, for where this team is going, RGIII is a legitimate fall back option. However, I get the "let's keep him in case the JG/KC experiment fails" argument. I actually bought into it until his latest off-the-field drama, injury and apparent on-field issues.]

It's just that, in order to set the boundaries of a discussion, he generally asks a loaded question which requires anyone replying to it to accept his premise in order to respond to it. Thus, rather than a real discussion, it becomes an exercise in "See how right my unassailable premise is." Those who disagree with the premise and phrase a response that incorporates the disagreement are simply dismissed as "unresponsive." It really is just a rhetorical gadget play because, technically, those who disagree with the premise [I]can't[/I] respond to the specific question.

It's a cross-examination technique that [I]can be [/I]a very persuasive rhetorical technique IF you lay the proper foundation such that you get everyone to agree with the question's underlying premise [b/c then there is only one "right" answer]. He never does that, and, in fact, I suspect knows folks don't agree with the premise so he skips the first part intentionally and then claims the rhetorical high ground by asserting others are unresponsive. It's just intellectually lazy and insulting to those trying to [I]actually[/I] discuss competing viewpoints and opinions.

It's the damn internet - not a scholarly debate. A little recognition that most responses are relatively stream of conscience so slack needs to be cut and an open mind needs to be kept. Otherwise its all mental masturbation and Big Man On Internet bull crap.

If he spent less time being pedantic and dismissive of others and more time actually looking for and acknowledging points of agreement, he actually could add to the discussion rather than just attempt to prove himself correct through rhetorical sleight of hand.

He isn't quite at Goat levels of obnoxiousness yet (Still the only guy I have ever put on ignore). Getting there, but not yet. There is still hope.

Hey, if punch could come around, anyone can - ;)