Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1166119]first rule of being considered politically astute - never blame Obama
second rule of being considered politically astute - [B]always blame Bush[/B]
third rule of being considered politically astute - be willing to call a deer a horse if it likes to be a donkey[/quote]

After eight years, the Clinton/Obama/Dems were STILL blaming Bush. Hillary in April, 2016:

[quote]There is a lot of frustration, and frankly a lot of anger. Many people are feeling left out and left behind in our great country. And they’re looking for answers and I don’t blame them one bit.

We need more good jobs with rising incomes because we fell back the last 15 years because of the terrible economic policies of George W, Bush.[/quote]

[url=http://www.progressivestoday.com/hillary-clinton-admits-job-market-stinks-blames-george-w-bush-video/]Hillary Clinton Admits The Job Market Stinks But BLAMES GEORGE W. BUSH (VIDEO)[/url]

Economy? Bush's fault.
Huge National Debt? Bush's fault.
Syrian Crisis? Bush's fault.
Water Disaster in Flint? Bush's fault.
Emperor Palpatine destroys the Old Republic? Bush's fault.

Re: What would it take?
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1165755]It's always about money

QUOTE]

Yup, always bout that scrilla

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/02/colin-kaepernick-plans-to-stand-for-the-national-anthem/]Colin Kaepernick plans to stand for the national anthem | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1166089]Solid speech. Short on details - big on aspirations. Loved the "I'm not here to represent the world. I'm here to represent the US." (or something like that).

Also, liked the focus on economic goals as opposed to social issues. If he gets off twitter, and pulls off a few more of these speeches - throw in a rally or two for the faithful - the Dems are going to have some real problems in the next election (mid-term) where they have 23 incumbents up for reelection versus only nine for the Republicans - plus two independents who caucus with the Dems.

Someone said to me, "If he fixes healthcare so that costs are controlled and basically retains coverage for the at-risk folks, he will get four more years."

I think the speech was the first step down that road. Still, lots of promises, and for me, I am not seeing how the math is going to work. [B]New infrastructure, more defense spending, fixes to healthcare - lots of new money being spent. Just wondering where it's supposed to come from b/c, apparently, [I]everyone[/I] is getting a tax cut.[/B]

Speeches like this should be aspirational and outline big picture plans. However, the devil is always in the details.[/quote]

This is a big question for me as well, the numbers aren't adding up. Maybe he's just gonna tax imports so heavily that the budget will go up. Who cares if you make a few enemies in the process, he doesn't care about non-Americans anyways.

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=mooby;1166160]This is a big question for me as well, the numbers aren't adding up. Maybe he's just gonna tax imports so heavily that the budget will go up. Who cares if you make a few enemies in the process, he doesn't care about non-Americans anyways.[/quote]

Probably could find gains in inefficient government spending without having to raising taxes.

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=mredskins;1166172]Probably could find gains in inefficient government spending without having to raising taxes.[/quote]

One would think (given the size of its' budget) eliminating wasteful military spending could really save some money, but do you think the Pentagon is really going to allow Trump to dig through its' finances while being made the scapegoat for gov't fund abuse? Think about all the military equipment of ours that ended up in the hands of ISIS, I know it will be nice and dandy to blame Obama for that one all you want (perhaps deservedly so, who's to know who deserves the majority of blame for that one) but it doesn't solve the issue at hand.

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1166142]After eight years, the Clinton/Obama/Dems were STILL blaming Bush. Hillary in April, 2016:[/url]

Economy? Bush's fault.
Huge National Debt? Bush's fault.
Syrian Crisis? Bush's fault.
Water Disaster in Flint? Bush's fault.
Emperor Palpatine destroys the Old Republic? Bush's fault.[/quote]

JR, question? Do you admit that the state of the country was different when Obama took office then when Trump took office?

Why not blame Bush?

[url=http://www.usw.org/blog/2015/bush-vs-obama-on-the-economy-in-3-simple-charts]Bush vs. Obama on the Economy, In 3 Simple Charts | United Steelworkers[/url]

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=Giantone;1166180]JR, question? Do you admit that the state of the country was different when Obama took office then when Trump took office?

Why not blame Bush?

[URL="http://www.usw.org/blog/2015/bush-vs-obama-on-the-economy-in-3-simple-charts"]Bush vs. Obama on the Economy, In 3 Simple Charts | United Steelworkers[/URL][/quote]

Like most things, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Is it fair to blame the state of the economy in 2008 on GWB? Sure. Is it fair to blame Obama for rising healthcare costs for the average person? Sure. Is it fair to blame everything on the last president you disliked? Probably not, but it still doesn't stop people from doing it anyways.

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=mredskins;1166172]Probably could find gains in inefficient government spending without having to raising taxes.[/quote]

Call me jaded but I've heard that old chestnut a time too many. Every president, governor, mayor and school board chair or other elected official has raised the battle cry "We will eliminate waste and save [billions/millions/thousands/a couple bucks]."

Here's the problem: Yes. There is waste - a lot of it. I would assume that it accounts for a significantly larger portion of the budget than in the private sector [In 2012, one estimate put it at 7% of the budget. I would imagine that in private companies it is closer to 1% maybe less - I couldn't find any studies]

However, the problem is that the majority of waste in government (as in money misspent through overpayment, wrongful payments, or losses due to penalties or failure to take advantage of discounts) results from the sacrifice of "efficiency for fairness" or in a more classic example - Mussolini may have been a dictator, but the Italian trains always ran on time. Generally, however, I have found, that, what most people mean when they say "cut waste," is that the government should cut programs they don't like or think useless. Good luck with that.

As an aside and a recent example from my own experience on the efficient v. fair issue:
Government client receives an unprecedented offer from vendor. The vendor will double its investment in the public entity AND will maintain pricing of the service it provides at current levels over the next six years. The entity - and its public customers - were already extremely happy with the service provided by the vendor. There were only three other vendors in the entity's municipality providing this particular service and none of them had [I]ever[/I] made offer as good as this.

This was a unilateral offer from the vendor - meaning that the government entity was not seeking a bid and the current contract had another year to run. The ONLY thing the vendor sought was to be exempted from the competitive bid process when the current contract expired -- if it had to go through the long, demanding, and expensive process of actually preparing a bid for submission to the appropriations and finance committees, it was just going to use its last submission with a lower investment and up its rates by its standard price multiplier/algorithm. No brainer right? Nope. The government entity is [I]legally barred[/I] from accepting bids outside the competitive process's public scrutiny in order to ensure that backroom kickback deals aren't being done with corrupt officials.

So, the governmental entity will end up losing a several hundred thousand dollars b/c it is legally barred from accepting a deal that a private entity would snap up before the vendor could finish their sentence.

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=Giantone;1166180]JR, question? Do you admit that the state of the country was different when Obama took office then when Trump took office?

Why not blame Bush?

[url=http://www.usw.org/blog/2015/bush-vs-obama-on-the-economy-in-3-simple-charts]Bush vs. Obama on the Economy, In 3 Simple Charts | United Steelworkers[/url][/quote]

Yes, the "state of the country" [I]is[/I] different, in the eight years Obama was in office, the federal debt doubled and - for the first time ever - exceeded our GNP. Just like individuals, a country can- for a time - live high off the hog and create an illusion of economic health when it lives on credit. The Dems spent a ton of money they didn't have to fuel inject the economy.

... what's that sound I hear? Oh, it's that damn piper again.

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=mooby;1166183]Like most things, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Is it fair to blame the state of the economy in 2008 on GWB? Sure. Is it fair to blame Obama for rising healthcare costs for the average person? Sure. Is it fair to blame everything on the last president you disliked? Probably not, but it still doesn't stop people from doing it anyways.[/quote]

Winner winner chicken dinner.

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1166189]Yes, the "state of the country" [I]is[/I] different, in the eight years Obama was in office, the federal debt doubled and - for the first time ever - exceeded our GNP.[/quote]


Do you agree the "bail outs" were part of that debt?


I guess I am to understand you felt as if we should not bail out anyone at all ,correct"

[url=http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/economy/the-true-cost-of-the-bank-bailout/3309/]The true cost of the bank bailout | Need to Know | PBS[/url]

Re: What would it take?
 

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/09/us/book-best-seller-trnd/index.html]#1 Amazon bestseller: 266 blank pages on why to vote Democrat - CNN.com[/url]

No. 1 Amazon bestseller: 266 blank pages on why to vote Democrat

It ends with a one-word review from conservative political commentator Ben Shapiro: "Thorough."

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1167538][url=http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/09/us/book-best-seller-trnd/index.html]#1 Amazon bestseller: 266 blank pages on why to vote Democrat - CNN.com[/url]

No. 1 Amazon bestseller: 266 blank pages on why to vote Democrat

It ends with a one-word review from conservative political commentator Ben Shapiro: "Thorough."

LOLOLOLOLOLOL[/quote]

Written by a Trumpette no doubt.Here is a reason.[IMG]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/80/f5/b1/80f5b108a7563e3066eb6472e7f32cc9.jpg[/IMG]


and here is a second.

[IMG]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/98/ae/4a/98ae4a2a28aa1250f740cbc3e538d940.jpg[/IMG]

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=Giantone;1167578]Written by a Trumpette no doubt.Here is a reason.[/quote]

That's a particularly ignorant and inflammatory picture.

The comparison to Nazi Germany's genocidal killing of Jews is blatantly ignorant and false.

the comparison to the Berlin wall is tremendously bass ackwards, seeing as how the intent of the Soviet wall was to imprison it's population that was trying to flee, and the intent of the border wall is to keep illegal entry into our country.

I get how you and others hate Trump, but there is no justification for that photo.

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1167581]That's a particularly ignorant and inflammatory picture.

The comparison to Nazi Germany's genocidal killing of Jews is blatantly ignorant and false.

the comparison to the Berlin wall is tremendously bass ackwards, seeing as how the intent of the Soviet wall was to imprison it's population that was trying to flee, and the intent of the border wall is to keep illegal entry into our country.

I get how you and others hate Trump, but there is no justification for that photo.[/quote]

They'd be marching in the streets if someone from the Right did something similar. We know how this works.

Frankly the Trump hate has gotten old quick. Fact is, he's getting stuff done which has and will continue to benefit the country.

but you know, Hatters gonna Hatte

Re: What would it take?
 

The only thing I approve of so far has been his handling of ISIS abroad. Beyond that, I still don't like his ideas or the way he's implementing them.

Like I said before, getting stuff done doesn't make it the right.

I just wish he would be more measured. Sure, it's great for his ego when his followers fellatiate him because he's doing what he said he would do. Feels like all the ideas are grand promises with no substance.

Sigh. I guess all I'm asking is he steps back, says, "Hey, I'm going to give you, the public, a very detailed plan on _______."

Again, I'm open-minded even though I hate him. :) What has he done that's benefiting us so far? Personally, I'm waiting on the infrastructure package. I'm fully behind that. He is totally 100% butt-fucking the environment right now. Regardless of liberal/conservative news, no one is really talking about that... :(

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1167581]That's a particularly ignorant and inflammatory picture.

The comparison to Nazi Germany's genocidal killing of Jews is blatantly ignorant and false.

the comparison to the Berlin wall is tremendously bass ackwards, seeing as how the intent of the Soviet wall was to imprison it's population that was trying to flee, and the intent of the border wall is to keep illegal entry into our country.
[/quote]


Ignorant ,no,inflammatory,only if you feel guilty about something.Your spin on the Wall is very amusing,since the immigrants that are coming in are not from Mexico why the need for the wall and if what you say is true then why not wall up the whole country.The Gulf,East and West cost and Canada we need to Wall up the country to save it from "illegal immigration"?
When you see the rounding up of immigrants and families being torn apart then how can you not compare it.It's only inflamatory if you feel guilty about it becuase if you didn't feel guilty then there would be no problem with it,right?

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1167589]They'd be marching in the streets if someone from the Right did something similar. We know how this works.

Frankly the Trump hate has gotten old quick. Fact is, he's getting stuff done which has and will continue to benefit the country.

but you know, Hatters gonna Hatte[/quote]



Really ???So who the hell did this???Republicans would never stoop this low???

[url]https://www.pinterest.com/waynesellers35/i-hate-obama/[/url]


[url]https://www.facebook.com/I-hate-Barack-Obama-375696402602[/url]


[IMG]https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/thenewcivilrightsmovement/pages/18278/attachments/original/1479497674/Screen_Shot_2016-11-18_at_2.31.25_PM.jpg?1479497674[/IMG]

Re: What would it take?
 

I'm interested to know where you guys stand on this global warming denial bullshit?

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=jamf;1167724]I'm interested to know where you guys stand on this global warming denial bullshit?[/quote]

Global warming is a thing imo.

I think we should go after China since they contribute a ton to it...burning all that coal. Those coal pits are massive.

But I know it's kinda a catch 22 for Bernie supporters. cause if it is our greatest threat and we nuke china..then it's like bombing Bernie's homeland since he is a communist, along with all his supporters.

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=jamf;1167724]I'm interested to know where you guys stand on this global warming denial bullshit?[/quote]


It's real,to bad the new Trump head of the EPA say's it's not.:doh:

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1167726]Global warming is a thing imo.

I think we should go after China since they contribute a ton to it...burning all that coal. Those coal pits are massive.

But I know it's kinda a catch 22 for Bernie supporters. cause if it is our greatest threat and we nuke china..then it's like bombing Bernie's homeland since he is a communist, along with all his supporters.[/quote]

What about our administration?

Re: What would it take?
 

Denying climate change at this point is just ludicrous, and dangerous.

Re: What would it take?
 

Trump's head of the EPA....


[url=http://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/a8542472/scott-pruitt-donald-trump-environmental-protection-agency/]Who Is Scott Pruitt - Meet Donald Trump's Head of the EPA, Scott Pruitt[/url]


[url=http://www.factcheck.org/2016/12/facts-trumps-epa-nominee/]The Facts on Trump’s EPA Nominee[/url]

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=jamf;1167799]What about our administration?[/quote]

I think they are foolish at the very minimum with that issue. But the EPA in general has been a poorly run agency as well.

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1167822]I think they are foolish at the very minimum with that issue. But the EPA in general has been a poorly run agency as well.[/quote]

Well there's really only one solution then. Deny anything is happening, dissolve the EPA or at the least reduce it's power to diddly, and then let corporations destroy the earth for profit. But we'll be fine, because we'll be dead by the time the real consequences happen. As long as we can live comfortably while we're here anything goes.

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1167608]The only thing I approve of so far has been his handling of ISIS abroad. Beyond that, I still don't like his ideas or the way he's implementing them.

Like I said before, [B]getting stuff done doesn't make it the right[/B].

I just wish he would be more measured. Sure, it's great for his ego when his followers fellatiate him because he's doing what he said he would do. Feels like all the ideas are grand promises with no substance.

Sigh. I guess all I'm asking is he steps back, says, "Hey, I'm going to give you, the public, a very detailed plan on _______."

Again, I'm open-minded even though I hate him. :) What has he done that's benefiting us so far? Personally, I'm waiting on the infrastructure package. I'm fully behind that. He is totally 100% butt-fucking the environment right now. Regardless of liberal/conservative news, no one is really talking about that... :([/quote]

Nah, the fact that he's doing his campaign promises is amazing. Who cares who they help or hurt, or the consequences of them. The fact that he is doing them is good enough for me, as long as I am not negatively affected by his policies he's doing a great job. When his policies directly hurt me is when I'll change my opinion of him.

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1167538][url=http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/09/us/book-best-seller-trnd/index.html]#1 Amazon bestseller: 266 blank pages on why to vote Democrat - CNN.com[/url]

No. 1 Amazon bestseller: 266 blank pages on why to vote Democrat

It ends with a one-word review from conservative political commentator Ben Shapiro: "Thorough."

LOLOLOLOLOLOL[/quote]

I think the most hilarious part of this story is the last two paragraphs, which clearly explain this book came out as a rebuttal to a very similar book being made about Trump and being released in November.

[quote]
A similar work for the opposite side of the political spectrum debuted back in November. David King's "Why Trump Deserves Trust, Respect & Admiration," another book of blank pages, is currently rated 4.4 out of 5 stars on Amazon.

"Despite years of research, we could not find anything to say on this subject, so please feel free to use this book for notes," the description reads. One of the top comments calls the book "insightful and inspired."[/quote]

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=mooby;1167874]Well there's really only one solution then. Deny anything is happening, dissolve the EPA or at the least reduce it's power to diddly, and then let corporations destroy the earth for profit. But we'll be fine, because we'll be dead by the time the real consequences happen. As long as we can live comfortably while we're here anything goes.[/quote]


I am sure the people in Michigan without drinking water feel fine about the whole EPA thing.

Re: What would it take?
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;1167925]I am sure the people in Michigan without drinking water feel fine about the whole EPA thing.[/QUOTE]
Didn't that happen WITH the EPA "protecting" us hapless citizens?

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1167926]Didn't that happen WITH the EPA "protecting" us hapless citizens?

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk[/quote]

Yes ,and they got caught didn't they?Take away the EPA and I am sure it would never happen again,right???:doh:

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=mooby;1167874]Well there's really only one solution then. Deny anything is happening, dissolve the EPA or at the least reduce it's power to diddly, and then let corporations destroy the earth for profit. But we'll be fine, because we'll be dead by the time the real consequences happen. As long as we can live comfortably while we're here anything goes.[/quote]

best...post...ever

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1167926]Didn't that happen WITH the EPA "protecting" us hapless citizens?

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk[/quote]

Can't figure out the intent of your post? Is it to blame the EPA for Flint's crumbling infrastructure, or to shift the blame away from local gov't for failing to do anything about or, or even the federal gov't for failing to step in when the local gov't can't even do its' job right? Either way, some branch of gov't needs to step up because it's ludicrous that people are getting boned over their lack of drinking water. But you can at least bet it won't be the EPA thanks to budget cuts or reduced power. It looks like the new head of the EPA's only contribution to society will be loosening restrictions on those poor businesses only making hundreds of millions of dollars, instead of hundreds of billions of dollars.

Re: What would it take?
 

My point is we have layers upon layers of bureaucracy intended to protect us from big evil corporations but it simply puts us often in the hands big incompetent and unaccountable government cogs. Do we need govt regulation I grudgingly say some yes. But the extent that is now in place? Definitely not

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

Re: What would it take?
 

fascinating stuff Rachel Madow. Her version of Journalism is amazing. That stunt last night much sillier than anything Fox news has done or said over the last 10 years.

Re: What would it take?
 

It was definitely pretty rough and I generally respect her... I was like:

[IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-IkO1wEF_-hI/TxWVhz79YqI/AAAAAAAAAP8/A3WwdjSOFrg/s1600/fish-hook-in-mouth.jpg[/IMG]

Re: What would it take?
 

she trolled everyone for ratings...pretty pathetic. 2 pages from 2005 really doesn't tell us anything. Honestly you need all schedules for trump and then business tax returns to give us any story.

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1168177]she trolled everyone for ratings...pretty pathetic. 2 pages from 2005 really doesn't tell us anything. Honestly you need all schedules for trump and then business tax returns to give us any story.[/quote]

Many believe that they were release by the White House themselves and are fake.Not a whole lot of tweeter going on.

Re: What would it take?
 

Ask and ye shall receive: Look at all [URL="http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/62-agencies-and-programs-trump-wants-to-eliminate/ar-BByb5tr?li=BBnb7Kz"]these useless gov't programs [/URL]that Trump is going to get rid of.

Re: What would it take?
 

[quote=mooby;1168238]Ask and ye shall receive: Look at all [URL="http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/62-agencies-and-programs-trump-wants-to-eliminate/ar-BByb5tr?li=BBnb7Kz"]these useless gov't programs [/URL]that Trump is going to get rid of.[/quote]

Going to assume "art of the deal negotiations" going on here. You want to keep The Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program, then agree to PBS cut.

I wouldn't imagine all 62 will get the axe but at least it opens discussions of what really are the constitutional priorities of the government.