Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1195524]As i said, I am sure a similar montage of msnbc hosts raving about Pres Obama could be made.

The "news" channels no longer report just the facts they all shade it with heavy positional bias.[/QUOTE]



There is no way in hell a similar montage exists about Obama and msnbc to that extent of hypocrisy. No way. There is changing your tune, and there is changing your entire album. Lol.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[url]https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/12/politics/clapper-trump-kim-korea-summit-cnntv/index.html[/url]

[B]James Clapper: US is 'in a much better place' after Trump-Kim summit[/B]

Former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said the US is in a "much better place" after the summit between President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.

"We're in a much better place ... where we're on the diplomatic path, as opposed to where we were six or eight months ago," Clapper told CNN's Anderson Cooper on Tuesday night.

Clapper said the change in the US approach to North Korea -- particularly the end to a US policy against negotiating with the isolated nation until it had fully denuclearized -- is a positive one.

Diplomacy is "the only real solution" to North Korea, Clapper said on "Anderson Cooper 360."

James Clapper is now endorsing Chico's post...in which Diplomacy path is being recognized. Funny how the word "Diplomacy" didn't get a lot of play yesterday...but several months ago the left was screaming Diplomacy when dealing with North Korea instead of "button size"

Make no mistake...NO fucking mistake....China told Kim that Trump was extremely serious in military action against him and his regime...China then advised Kim to change the path because they would not tolerate a US presence up against their border. This is missed by many.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1195528][url]https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/12/politics/clapper-trump-kim-korea-summit-cnntv/index.html[/url]



[B]James Clapper: US is 'in a much better place' after Trump-Kim summit[/B]



Former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said the US is in a "much better place" after the summit between President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.



"We're in a much better place ... where we're on the diplomatic path, as opposed to where we were six or eight months ago," Clapper told CNN's Anderson Cooper on Tuesday night.



Clapper said the change in the US approach to North Korea -- particularly the end to a US policy against negotiating with the isolated nation until it had fully denuclearized -- is a positive one.



Diplomacy is "the only real solution" to North Korea, Clapper said on "Anderson Cooper 360."



James Clapper is now endorsing Chico's post...in which Diplomacy path is being recognized. Funny how the word "Diplomacy" didn't get a lot of play yesterday...but several months ago the left was screaming Diplomacy when dealing with North Korea instead of "button size"



Make no mistake...NO fucking mistake....China told Kim that Trump was extremely serious in military action against him and his regime...China then advised Kim to change the path because they would not tolerate a US presence up against their border. This is missed by many.[/QUOTE]



Are you serious man?
1) he said, and you can re-read your own quote, that we are in a much better place than we were 6-8 MONTHS AGO. Well. Yeah. That is when Trump was calling him names on Twitter.
2) This is like the 30th time in the last 20 years that NK has “promised” to de-nuke. Guess what? Everyone else he told that too was smart enough not to take a victory lap. But its ok when Kim doesn’t de-nuke, and he wont, you can just blame Obama, or Bill Clinton, or the Kennedys, or CNN, or G-one, or the Easter Bunny, or Kaep, or AT&T.
3) stop spinning shit man - u r a bigger propaganda machine than NK and Fox together. “Diplomacy” got plenty of play yesterday - problem is that past the handshake, and photo op - the “deal” was terrible. Lol. But dont let me ruin your good time.

When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1195528][url]https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/12/politics/clapper-trump-kim-korea-summit-cnntv/index.html[/url]



[B]James Clapper: US is 'in a much better place' after Trump-Kim summit[/B]



Former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said the US is in a "much better place" after the summit between President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.



"We're in a much better place ... where we're on the diplomatic path, as opposed to where we were six or eight months ago," Clapper told CNN's Anderson Cooper on Tuesday night.



Clapper said the change in the US approach to North Korea -- particularly the end to a US policy against negotiating with the isolated nation until it had fully denuclearized -- is a positive one.



Diplomacy is "the only real solution" to North Korea, Clapper said on "Anderson Cooper 360."



James Clapper is now endorsing Chico's post...in which Diplomacy path is being recognized. Funny how the word "Diplomacy" didn't get a lot of play yesterday...but several months ago the left was screaming Diplomacy when dealing with North Korea instead of "button size"



Make no mistake...NO fucking mistake....China told Kim that Trump was extremely serious in military action against him and his regime...China then advised Kim to change the path because they would not tolerate a US presence up against their border. This is missed by many.[/QUOTE]



He called our military “provocative”???? Our military operations which are providing insurance against this nut job with nukes is provocative? Im sorry. I thought kim and NK were the provocative ones? If Obama ever made that comment u would be calling him pussy all over this board, but Trump does it and it is “make no fuckin mistake about it TOUGH”. Ok man. Must be nice to live in parallel universes. How convenient.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=punch it in;1195530]He called our military “provocative”???? Our military operations which are providing insurance against this nut job with nukes is provocative? Im sorry. I thought kim and NK were the provocative ones? If Obama ever made that comment u would be calling him pussy all over this board, but Trump does it and it is “make no fuckin mistake about it TOUGH”. Ok man. Must be nice to live in parallel universes. How convenient.[/quote]

I think Trump, like most good faith diplomacy, has to give a "bone" to the North Koreans. And lets think about this...Trump didn't just do this yesterday...we are allll aware that we have been in talks/negotiations for about a month.

I know the bias media is now worried about these yearly, 2 weeks training exercises...because it has very little to criticize. You do understand the North Koreans wanted nuclear umbrella gone, immediate sanction relief, government aid and the removal for American troops along its border...these exercises as a chip of good faith changes very little militarily about the US commitment to South Korea and the region.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

I think the media coverage of this whole event is shameful to the American people. To hear the fear, the lack of facts, and lies its pretty unreal. We should be excited and hopeful. The tone changed but our posture is still strong and ready.

I think if this would have happened 3 years ago the press would be celebrating.

When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1195534]I think the media coverage of this whole event is shameful to the American people. To hear the fear, the lack of facts, and lies its pretty unreal. We should be excited and hopeful. The tone changed but our posture is still strong and ready.



I think if this would have happened 3 years ago the press would be celebrating.[/QUOTE]



What?!?!?!?
Our posture is strong? He just gushed all over a murderous dictator for the world to see and our posture is strong? Wow. Ok.
The only thing shameful is how Fox has changed their tune since Obama wanted to meet with NK. But don’t let actual hypocritical very real video footage get in the way. Just ignore it and say that the left is doing it. Hahahaha. Wow what a simple playbook Trump has given you all.
Everyone is hopeful Chico, but the bottom line is that he gave Kim very tangible things, and praises him to the point of worship- “he loves his people, and they love him”. Really? Kim gave us the same promise he has made 20 times since 2000. That is a fact. Just that When Trump gets told the same old lie he surrounds it with pompous circumstance to rile up his base before anything real has even happened- and it works - look at you. You are acting like all the nukes are gone from the peninsula and Disney just opened a giant park there. You do realize that NOTHING has changed? NOTHING.
Now go ahead and throw the hope, peace, and love words at me. Good luck. You are pinning that hope on a murderous dictator who kills his own family and feeds this same line of denuclearization to every tom dick and harry he needs something from. Most others don’t negotiate with the mad man. But Trump, the brilliant deal maker (see the long list of bad deals) just got suckered like a school boy on the grandest stage. But honestly i dont know why im trying to explain reality to u, because like him - you will never admit when he is wrong.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

Well, Trump didn't give 4 billion to NK like Bill Clinton and then offered assistance in building Nuclear reactors (energy purposes only *wink)

or Trump didn't release 400 billion to Iran which the state department has evidence this money was used in an arms deal with Russia, arm rebels and engage in an proxy war in Yeman and finance terrorist operations against Israel via Hezbollah.....like Obama did.


Im sure you will give your approval of both...

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1195536]Well, Trump didn't give 4 billion to NK like Bill Clinton and then offered assistance in building Nuclear reactors (energy purposes only *wink)



or Trump didn't release 400 billion to Iran which the state department has evidence this money was used in an arms deal with Russia, arm rebels and engage in an proxy war in Yeman and finance terrorist operations against Israel via Hezbollah.....like Obama did.





Im sure you will give your approval of both...[/QUOTE]



Are you referring to the 400 MILLION big difference that Obama did not give to Iran to release hostages? Where do you get your news? Fox? Facebook? Serious question.

[url]https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-bribed-iran-400-million-to-release-u-s-prisoners/[/url]

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=punch it in;1195537]Are you referring to the 400 MILLION big difference that Obama did not give to Iran to release hostages? Where do you get your news? Fox? Facebook? Serious question.

[url]https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-bribed-iran-400-million-to-release-u-s-prisoners/[/url][/quote]

Ha 400 billion is a lil much. We could finance their terror operations for the next 100 years. Thanks for catching that.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1195538]Ha 400 billion is a lil much. We could finance their terror operations for the next 100 years. Thanks for catching that.[/QUOTE]



I will give 400 billion to someone that can make grass seed that grows instantly into lush green grass with no work involved. Seriously becoming a sloppy time to drink around my fire pit.
Seriously though- C Red made a comment earlier about how he was sure he could find a hypocritical video montage from msnbc where they change their tune on an issue based on which side was the perpetrator, and that was the only point i was trying to make this morning- i mean please watch that fox video i posted. Not sure how that bought us back to clinton and obama but Fox is the only media outlet doing a disservice- they literally have millions of Americans believing this morning that Trump has bought peace to the peninsula because he finally had the balls to speak with Kim face to face. In reality - this is the umpteenth time that Kim has “promised “ to de nuke, and they absolutely roasted Obama for the mere mention of doing such things. That is not a leftist spin it is exactly what has happened.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[url]https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/12/sports/trump-letters-world-cup.html[/url]


[url=http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/fifa-world-cup/give-trump-credit-for-usa-getting-the-world-cup/ar-AAyA0vl?ocid=ientp]Give Trump credit for USA getting the World Cup[/url]

Give Trump credit for USA getting the World Cup


Someone on a roll this week...We got the bigly Soccer Cup!

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1195534]I think the media coverage of this whole event is shameful to the American people. To hear the fear, the lack of facts, and lies its pretty unreal. We should be excited and hopeful. The tone changed but our posture is still strong and ready.

I think if this would have happened 3 years ago the press would be celebrating.[/quote]

Of course you do, the truth does'nt fit your narrative. Your choice's are are with Punch or,back trump and blame the media. To you trump is never wrong always right and when trump is wrong it's the "bias media". Just stop.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Giantone;1195542]Of course you do, the truth does'nt fit your narrative. Your choice's are are with Punch or,back trump and blame the media. To you trump is never wrong always right and when trump is wrong it's the "bias media". Just stop.[/quote]

No. The media certainly has the right to critique the meeting and the signed document/agreement thingy.

But when NBC Today show starts the show with what "Trump gave away" as a headline or CNN runs headlines on the website "Nothing was changed or gained" then we have a problem with honesty. You need to provide context, perspective and all the facts. You cant provide the American People half the facts, just like you cant declare victory from yesterday. A story as big as this should be framed properly. I know you don't get it, but

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=punch it in;1195527]There is no way in hell a similar montage exists about Obama and msnbc to that extent of hypocrisy. No way. There is changing your tune, and there is changing your entire album. Lol.[/quote]

I think it can be compared to how the praises were sung after the Iran deal.

Iran is not a much better actor than NK.

We both admit our biases here, but I think you still credit non Fox news as way too credible for what they really are.

News outlets today are simply sycophants for their preferred policies, and the politicians that support them.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1195543]No. The media certainly has the right to critique the meeting and the signed document/agreement thingy.



But when NBC Today show starts the show with what "Trump gave away" as a headline or CNN runs headlines on the website "Nothing was changed or gained" then we have a problem with honesty. You need to provide context, perspective and all the facts. You cant provide the American People half the facts, just like you cant declare victory from yesterday. A story as big as this should be framed properly. I know you don't get it, but[/QUOTE]



I love how you refer to the actual agreement as a “thingy”. Lol. Good job.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1195544]I think it can be compared to how the praises were sung after the Iran deal.



Iran is not a much better actor than NK.



We both admit our biases here, but I think you still credit non Fox news as way too credible for what they really are.



News outlets today are simply sycophants for their preferred policies, and the politicians that support them.[/QUOTE]



But the difference is their tune hasn’t changed on the Iran deal. They have been consistent. It was not a perfect deal but it was / is better than nothing. They still say that after Trump ripped it up and replaced it with nothing. So unless he does create a better deal which is what he said he would do we have no way to judge their “potential” bias.
However Fox is completely 100% changing their tune on a POTUS meeting face to face with a foreign dictator.
Apples and oranges my friend.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

No you miss my point.

And it wasnt clearly expressed. Not sure i can. But here it goes.

My hypothesis is that had obama made a deal with nk instead if iran, the msm coverage would have run much like the love for obama around the iran deal. And if trump had made a deal with iran, it would have been him dealing with an evil empire and saying iran isnt trustworthy.


The news no longer cares what reality is only which side they want to present.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1195544]I think it can be compared to how the praises were sung after the Iran deal.

Iran is not a much better actor than NK.

We both admit our biases here, but I think you still credit non Fox news as way too credible for what they really are.

News outlets today are simply sycophants for their preferred policies, and the politicians that support them.[/quote]

The axis of evil....Ole Dub wasn't wrong about that.

NK and Iran are fairly dangerous in their own respect. NK being isolated really hurts their effectiveness as a country when its comes down to influence. They lack a respectable position even in their region. Militarily, they cannot fuel or feed their army either.

Iran on the other hand is the top Shai Muslim country in the world with a competent army. They have an intelligent service which is effective for that region...globally not so much. BUT, they have been have a competent money funneling system where they support Terrorism throughout the world. What is really strange about Iran is their people are relatively "modern" for the region and the country is more liberal than its Suni counterparts...Why that doesn't translate into their government is a strange....but it goes to show that the Ayatollah holds the most power in the country.

If you had to point to which is the more "dangerous" country? I think Iran easily wins...even with NK with a nuclear weapon...even if they can deliver it on a rocket. I think Iran with a nuclear weapon would be extremely dangerous with their terrorist connections.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1195547]No you miss my point.

And it wasnt clearly expressed. Not sure i can. But here it goes.

My hypothesis is that had obama made a deal with nk instead if iran, the msm coverage would have run much like the love for obama around the iran deal. And if trump had made a deal with iran, it would have been him dealing with an evil empire and saying iran isnt trustworthy.


The news no longer cares what reality is only which side they want to present.[/QUOTE]


I hear you, but,..... CRed no liberal news media outlets are ripping Trump for meeting with Kim. They are ripping what he said and accomplished (or didn’t accomplish). Maybe they would have praised Obama if he said and accomplished the same thing. But that is a huge hypothetical. The right wing news media is clearly contradicting their stance on the actual meeting itself. They are clearly applauding this as a first step and ignoring what actually happened, and they clearly scoffed at Obama for wanting to meet with Kim?
Again apples and oranges.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

I have heard the liberal news media outlets give credit to Trump on several occasions. They may not make a habit of it but as left wingers you cannot expect them to get behind much of his policy and certainly have to understand they will never get behind his persona. I can also say I have NEVER heard Fox doubt or criticize Trump for anything. The man made fun of a handicapped person for christ sake. No if ands or buts about it and it was no big deal. They actually tried to say that is just the way Trump moves. Lol. If Obama had done that exact thing he would have “a special place in hell”. He would have been sub human, and they would have bought in handicapped people by the bus load to lament the words and gestures made by Obama.
The bias swings both ways because of policy and stance on what both sides believe is right and wrong. That is completely understandable. But again ive heard some bend from the left on several things Trump has said or done or signed. Not one time have i heard negative response from the right on anything Trump has ever said or done. Not once. Maybe it is because Trump himself cannot apologize. Central park 5, birtherism? Can he just admit he was wrong? Can Fox? The left does admit wrong. Obama has apologized. The right used to. Until Trump. This isn’t a right vs left thing anymore. It is left vs one man and the rights inability to ever say he was wrong about anything. Bias pendulum is clearly heavier on one side than it ever was before Trump.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

The leftist news media is literally just saying, “hey dont trust kim jung un, he has made hollow promises before”. “Do not take our troops/insurance policy off the peninsula “. “You gave alot of concessions based on a murderous dictators umpteenth promise to de nuke”. None of them are saying it was a bad idea to go there (like Fox did when obama wanted to). It is cautious optimism. It is Kim Jung Un for crying out loud. Trump wants to hear them all sing “for he is a jolly good fellow” and he deserves the nobel peace prize.
Trump is again making the news media out to be the enemy of the state because they wont cheer the “honest, smart, loving of his people Jung un”. It is crazy. Absolutely crazy. Let Trump take his victory lap. Let Fox News slobber all over a handshake and hollow promise of a mad man. Ill be damned if I will. How can he tweet that NK is no longer a nuclear threat, and expect the praise of the news media? It is lunacy. Obama, Clinton, Bush, effin George Washington would never jump to such absurd conclusions based on a photo op.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

Ok, let's be clear - I'm NOT a defender of Fox News, they are a clearly biased agents.

What I do believe, and think it's amazing when rational people can't see past their biases, is that CNN, and even moreso MSNBC are very much biased agents also.

Ultimately, with every presidency and presidential action, like with NFL drafts the full scope of the actions will be judged by the annals of time.

My belief is that Trump has navigated a very bad situation (NK with nukes) in an effective way, and the people handling the negotiations (which is not Trump but Pompeo and Bolton) are people I trust to ensure that we don't make irrevocable bad deals to get to a lasting peace.

I also believe that Obama was the equivalent of Chamberlain with the Iran deal. He was intent on having peace with Iran in his legacy but instead left them in a position to expand their territory and bases like Chamberlain did with Hitler.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1195553]Ok, let's be clear - I'm NOT a defender of Fox News, they are a clearly biased agents.



What I do believe, and think it's amazing when rational people can't see past their biases, is that CNN, and even moreso MSNBC are very much biased agents also.



Ultimately, with every presidency and presidential action, like with NFL drafts the full scope of the actions will be judged by the annals of time.



My belief is that Trump has navigated a very bad situation (NK with nukes) in an effective way, and the people handling the negotiations (which is not Trump but Pompeo and Bolton) are people I trust to ensure that we don't make irrevocable bad deals to get to a lasting peace.



I also believe that Obama was the equivalent of Chamberlain with the Iran deal. He was intent on having peace with Iran in his legacy but instead left them in a position to expand their territory and bases like Chamberlain did with Hitler.[/QUOTE]



I can agree with pretty much all of this except when u called Bolton a peace maker. That made me throw up in my mouth a little bit. 🤢

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=punch it in;1195554]I can agree with pretty much all of this except when u called Bolton a peace maker. That made me throw up in my mouth a little bit. 🤢[/QUOTE]Lol. Yeah I don't think I called Bolton a peacemaker I certainly did not mean to. What I did mean to say is that Bolton and Pompeo are going to actively make sure that any agreements signed are to the betterment of US policy and certainly if they don't get full denuclearization then Bolton particularly probably would just say "fine Nukem"

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1195555]Lol. Yeah I don't think I called Bolton a peacemaker I certainly did not mean to. What I did mean to say is that Bolton and Pompeo are going to actively make sure that any agreements signed are to the betterment of US policy and certainly if they don't get full denuclearization then Bolton particularly probably would just say "fine Nukem"[/QUOTE]



I wouldn’t be too sure about that. Lol. He is probably snooping around the Oval Office looking for the codes as we speak. [emoji23]

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

One last thing, and I do - strongly - believe this, if NK moves at all out of China's sway, and starts to think that maybe they could have an economy like SK, that would give us a lot of sway in terms of human rights conditions. I understand that right now NK is abysmal, but we have zero sway over that, and they use our animosity as an excuse for the impoverishment.

This was published in the normally bellicose Rodong Sinmun (NK's state controlled media)
[QUOTE]1. The DPRK and the United States commit to establish new DPRK-U.S. relations in accordance with the desire of the peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity.

2. The DPRK and the United States will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula.

3. Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.

4. The DPRK and the United States commit to recovering POW/MIA remains, including the immediate repatriation of those already identified.[/QUOTE]

This is huge that they published it after years of editorials and news articles declaring the necessity of nuclear NK. And it means that they are presenting a new face of information to their people.

It's a dictatorship, so it's not like the people are going to have a say, but it also puts denuclearization out as a real thing.

IF they really had down a different path, there is a reason to hope that the people of NK will also benefit, both from better economics - no sanctions - and friendlier relationship with their southern brethren. AND IF the NK's see the life of SK's that will open up huge opportunity for humane reforms.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1195558]One last thing, and I do - strongly - believe this, if NK moves at all out of China's sway, and starts to think that maybe they could have an economy like SK, that would give us a lot of sway in terms of human rights conditions. I understand that right now NK is abysmal, but we have zero sway over that, and they use our animosity as an excuse for the impoverishment.



This was published in the normally bellicose Rodong Sinmun (NK's state controlled media)





This is huge that they published it after years of editorials and news articles declaring the necessity of nuclear NK. And it means that they are presenting a new face of information to their people.



It's a dictatorship, so it's not like the people are going to have a say, but it also puts denuclearization out as a real thing.



IF they really had down a different path, there is a reason to hope that the people of NK will also benefit, both from better economics - no sanctions - and friendlier relationship with their southern brethren. AND IF the NK's see the life of SK's that will open up huge opportunity for humane reforms.[/QUOTE]



CRed this is not the first time the little guy has referenced denuclearization to his people or the world though. This isn’t some wow moment. It is the same old same old. Also he is telling the people of NK that we too will de nuke - which Trump has absolutely no intention of doing. They are not on the same page. This is just a-lot of talk and pompous circumstance on both sides. We aren’t giving up our nukes. NK is not giving up theirs. We can all hope for denuclearization of the entire world, but u know as well as i do it aint happening. This was sadly nothing more than a photo op for both leaders to look good. Is it a first step. Sure. So is me depositing 100 dollars in my bank account on my way to a cool million.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=punch it in;1195559]CRed this is not the first time the little guy has referenced denuclearization to his people or the world though. This isn’t some wow moment. It is the same old same old. Also he is telling the people of NK that we too will de nuke - which Trump has absolutely no intention of doing. They are not on the same page. This is just a-lot of talk and pompous circumstance on both sides. We aren’t giving up our nukes. NK is not giving up theirs. We can all hope for denuclearization of the entire world, but u know as well as i do it aint happening. This was sadly nothing more than a photo op for both leaders to look good. Is it a first step. Sure. So is me depositing 100 dollars in my bank account on my way to a cool million.[/quote]

Wrong, I actually read Rodong Sinmun regularly. I don't know why, I don't have any attachment to Korea, I served in Germany, my exwife is from Germany, and my Dad served in Germany/Vietnam, my mom is German.

But 3 or 4 years ago I started reading the NK and SK state online press, and this is a HUGELY shift in policy and opinion pieces. I promise you, NK's haven't heard the tone in the opinions in the last 4 years ever.

I remember it was around when the Kaesong Plant was closed in 2013 that I really got interested. You can go back in the Korea threads, and see my thoughts. I promise - disregarding all of US media - the tone in NK changed drastically for the better.

standard disclaimer, until NK actually has a verifiable path in place, these good will gestures are just spectacle... It does seem to have substance behind it though.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1195560]Wrong, I actually read Rodong Sinmun regularly. I don't know why, I don't have any attachment to Korea, I served in Germany, my exwife is from Germany, and my Dad served in Germany/Vietnam, my mom is German.



But 3 or 4 years ago I started reading the NK and SK state online press, and this is a HUGELY shift in policy and opinion pieces. I promise you, NK's haven't heard the tone in the opinions in the last 4 years ever.



I remember it was around when the Kaesong Plant was closed in 2013 that I really got interested. You can go back in the Korea threads, and see my thoughts. I promise - disregarding all of US media - the tone in NK changed drastically for the better.



standard disclaimer, until NK actually has a verifiable path in place, these good will gestures are just spectacle... It does seem to have substance behind it though.[/QUOTE]



05, 07? He did not pledge to denuke?

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=punch it in;1195562]05, 07? He did not pledge to denuke?[/QUOTE]Well seeing as how he was 21 in 2005 and didn't become supreme leader until 2011 i dont think he did. NK did, and he may be trying that tact, but he invested ALOT of his energy in promoting the right to nuclear weapons AND the need for nuclear weapons. It has been the drumbeat of his media for the last 5 years and to come to full u turn is a different tone then he has ever put before his military and his people.

When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1195563]Well seeing as how he was 21 in 2005 and didn't become supreme leader until 2011 i dont think he did. NK did, and he may be trying that tact, but he invested ALOT of his energy in promoting the right to nuclear weapons AND the need for nuclear weapons. It has been the drumbeat of his media for the last 5 years and to come to full u turn is a different tone then he has ever put before his military and his people.[/QUOTE]



I was just questioning your second paragraph of the post i quoted. I read it as north koreans have not heard this talk before. Not sure if u meant to say ever or last four years? I should have said they not he though. Forget this guy is barely an adult sometimes. If this is indeed the first time he is down playing the need for nukes to his people though like you say than I would say -again- that it is because he is also telling his people that Trump is laying down his “guns” too. He is obviously spinning the summit to make it look like there is some sort of truce, and not just that he is laying down. I really believe at the end of the day this was plain and simply some sort of photo op for both leaders. They both go back home and say “i won - he is backing off”. But neither of them will. Sanctions get lifted when you de nuke, i will de nuke when you de nuke - it will literally morph back into a stalemate. I think the “testing “ might stop because Jung Un got something he wanted desperately- to be taken seriously- by the world - on the biggest stage - as a nuclear power that must be reckoned with. But we all know the testing wasn’t the issue it was the threat of testing becoming something more, and the threat (or the nukes) aren’t going anywhere. No way. No how.
I think we can both agree that time will tell. Though if things do not get better DT will never admit he actually accomplished nothing here other than giving Jung Un some sort of legitimacy that he so desperately craved. Hey who knows maybe that’s enough for him and he grows old quietly.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=punch it in;1195564]I was just questioning your second paragraph of the post i quoted. I read it as north koreans have not heard this talk before. Not sure if u meant to say ever or last four years? I should have said they not he though. Forget this guy is barely an adult sometimes. If this is indeed the first time he is down playing the need for nukes to his people I would say -again- that it is because he is also telling his people that Trump is laying down his “guns” too. He is obviously spinning the summit to make it look like there is some sort of truce, and not just that he is laying down. I really believe at the end of the day this was plain and simply some sort of photo op for both leaders. They both go back home and say “i won - he is backing off”. But neither of them will. Sanctions get lifted when you de nuke, i will de nuke when you de nuke - it will literally morph back into a stalemate. I think the “testing “ might stop because Jung Un got something he wanted desperately- to be taken seriously- by the world - on the biggest stage - as a nuclear power that must be reckoned with. But we all know the testing wasn’t the issue it was the threat of testing becoming something more, and the threat (or the nukes) aren’t going anywhere. No way. No how.
I think we can both agree that time will tell. Though if things do not get better DT will never admit he actually accomplished nothing here other than giving Jung Un some sort of legitimacy.[/QUOTE]I admit i dont get the whole legitimacy issue, the guy is the ruler of nk, no one questions that. His family has ruled nk for 70 years.

I would understand it if there was a government in exile or if the UN didnt recognize nk as a state but there isnt and it does.

Not really a discussion point just me saying nk is a recognizrd country and not a soul on this planet thinks its ruler is anyone but kju.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1195565]I admit i dont get the whole legitimacy issue, the guy is the ruler of nk, no one questions that. His family has ruled nk for 70 years.

I would understand it if there was a government in exile or if the UN didnt recognize nk as a state but there isnt and it does.

Not really a discussion point just me saying nk is a recognizrd country and not a soul on this planet thinks its ruler is anyone but kju.[/QUOTE]



Couldn’t agree more but he obviously has a need for attention. The missiles just screamed hey look at me, but honestly I never believed the guy was going to actually nuke anyone besides the fish. Thats why Trump calling him names was always reckless imo. Once Trump started though he couldn’t walk away. His ego would never let him. So we have what we had last week - two hot heads teaching the world about peace. Lol. Trump gets to say I warned him. KJU gets to say America is leaving. Nothing really changed at all though. They got into a pissing match, kissed and made up, and we are really right back where we started.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=punch it in;1195566]Couldn’t agree more but he obviously has a need for attention. The missiles just screamed hey look at me, but honestly I never believed the guy was going to actually nuke anyone besides the fish. Thats why Trump calling him names was always reckless imo. Once Trump started though he couldn’t walk away. His ego would never let him. So we have what we had last week - two hot heads teaching the world about peace. Lol. Trump gets to say I warned him. KJU gets to say America is leaving. Nothing really changed at all though. They got into a pissing match, kissed and made up, and we are really right back where we started.[/QUOTE]But we aren't where we started. Kju put in writing that he was working towards denuclearization and he met outside of North Korea a western leader and he met with the South Korean leadership these are all things he had not done since he became president. It may be that he feels secure enough in his position to try a level of diplomacy, and it may be that this is a similar ruse to the 2005 era but it's not where we started with kju since 2011. He's never taken these steps before.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1195567]But we aren't where we started. Kju put in writing that he was working towards denuclearization and he met outside of North Korea a western leader and he met with the South Korean leadership these are all things he had not done since he became president. It may be that he feels secure enough in his position to try a level of diplomacy, and it may be that this is a similar ruse to the 2005 era but it's not where we started with kju since 2011. He's never taken these steps before.[/QUOTE]



KJU is back in North Korea as dictator still with his full arsenal of nukes. We are exactly where we started. You call them steps. I call them a show. Who blinks first now? Who budges? Do you actually believe that KJU is going to get rid of his babies? I believe he might say he will. Who is going to go in and find out? What plans are in place to “verify” this? No offense to Pompeo. Lol. But that is sort of a key element. I hate to be a pessimist but this was a dog and pony show on both ends C Red. And you know what, IDC, because as long as Trump and KJU can both stop with their bravado and provocative bullshit the World will go on.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1195565]I admit i dont get the whole legitimacy issue, the guy is the ruler of nk, no one questions that. His family has ruled nk for 70 years.

I would understand it if there was a government in exile or if the UN didnt recognize nk as a state but there isnt and it does.

Not really a discussion point just me saying nk is a recognizrd country and not a soul on this planet thinks its ruler is anyone but kju.[/quote]

I agree but lets not forget he is the ruler of NK becuase he killed off his uncle and a few cousins.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1195567]But we aren't where we started. Kju put in writing that he was working towards denuclearization and he met outside of North Korea a western leader and he met with the South Korean leadership these are all things he had not done since he became president. It may be that he feels secure enough in his position to try a level of diplomacy, and it may be that this is a similar ruse to the 2005 era but it's not where we started with kju since 2011. He's never taken these steps before.[/quote]

So exactly what is he going to do,everyone talks about "denuclearization" but the truth is his program was failing ,his biggest test site collapsed,his tech knowledge is old and not up to date,there was no proof non that any of nk missiles could even come close to this country.What did trump get?We stop war games and we have put out allies S.Korea and Japan at risk......my one big question is how many copyrights did Ivanka get this time?

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

I love because Kim Un Fat didn’t pack the nukes in his luggage this is somehow a failure...

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1195573]I love because Kim Un Fat didn’t pack the nukes in his luggage this is somehow a failure...[/quote]

he does'nt have any nukes in the first place,how is it a win?trump gave a murderous little dictator a seat at the grown up table,a place he does not belong.