Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1187697]Jay will have to formulate game plans for a far more conservative QB than KC. I hope he can do that but have reservations.

I will wait to make a prediction on playoff wins until I see the team being built. As it stands now I would say we won't win more but we can't win less than we did with KC.[/quote]

A more conservative quarterback? We replaced a quarterback who often seemed reluctant to throw past the line of scrimmage with a quarterback who led the league in downfield passing.

I do agree we can't win less than we did with KC.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=Skinsfanatic;1187698]A more conservative quarterback? We replaced a quarterback who often seemed reluctant to throw past the line of scrimmage with a quarterback who led the league in downfield passing.

I do agree we can't win less than we did with KC.[/quote]

Every analyst I have listened to has said that he has the tendency to hold the ball and take a sack instead of forcing a throw that might lead to a turnover and that Gruden will have to adjust to a more conservative QB. Last year was a career year for AS are you going to base who is on that one year or his entire body of work? If we get last years AS great.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1187700]Every analyst I have listened to has said that he has the tendency to hold the ball and take a sack instead of forcing a throw that might lead to a turnover and that Gruden will have to adjust to a more conservative QB. Last year was a career year for AS are you going to base who is on that one year or his entire body of work? If we get last years AS great.[/quote]

Even if that analysis is correct, it just makes him Kirk Cousins.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

I haven't posted in years....so its nice to be back.

I don't have a problem with Alex Smith the QB. I'm sure he will be as productive as Kirk (or Kurt depending on who is talking). My issue is this - $71 millions guaranteed to a guy that is 34 years old. this is so the OLD redskins way of over paying for aging guys. And also giving up a promising young corner (remember Champ?). And absolutely no attempt to at least dip a toe in the negotiating pool with Kirk. I am guessing $70+ million guaranteed last year would have gotten close or at least given Kirk the feeling that this may be the right place to be. But as usual, Bruce Allen craps on this because he is out to show he is the man in charge.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

Someone mentioned it earlier and I think it's a very good point, no one on the team is crying over the fact that Kirk is leaving. All of his teammates have realized for a long time that he did not want to be a Redskin.

At some level that has to affect the way, you play the game. It's one thing to be playing the game for the sole reason that I want to be playing the game somewhere else down the road, as opposed to I'm all in completely, this is my team and my teammates and I'm playing to win with everything I have, every single game, every single play.

I saw a conservative Kirk sometimes.

It's like if you have a job and you are just a regular employee and you see someone in "upper management" that is making way more money then you are, and all they do all day is complain about being there. And even if they don't outwardly complain you know they hate being there. That would get old quick.

I'm glad Kirk is leaving for Kirk's sake and for the team sake.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=#56fanatic;1187703]I haven't posted in years....so its nice to be back.

I don't have a problem with Alex Smith the QB. I'm sure he will be as productive as Kirk (or Kurt depending on who is talking). My issue is this - $71 millions guaranteed to a guy that is 34 years old. this is so the OLD redskins way of over paying for aging guys. And also giving up a promising young corner (remember Champ?). And absolutely no attempt to at least dip a toe in the negotiating pool with Kirk. I am guessing $70+ million guaranteed last year would have gotten close or at least given Kirk the feeling that this may be the right place to be. But as usual, Bruce Allen craps on this because he is out to show he is the man in charge.[/quote]

damn man welcome back

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

question for the board ,do we get the extra pick pick back this year or next when cousins signs somewhere else ?

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;1187674]I rarely post but I wanted to offer a possible scenario that I haven't seen posted yet. We have the 13th pick in the draft and Alex Smith is now off the market that pick could be huge. I hated to see Fuller leave too, but what if we trade back an added a 2nd round pick or more. Someone will miss out on a QB in FA and need to draft a QB. Don't look at the trade (it's over with there's no use in crying about it now) look the ripple effect of the trade.

Example what if they trade back and get an additional 2nd & 4th round pick for the 13th pick (or possibly more) while being able to resign a stud like Zach Brown. Is that really that bad? Fuller will be missed for sure but it's not the end of the world. The extra pick or picks could help boost the holes in the roster. I feel we could come out okay under the circumstances given honestly, if the FO makes these type of moves in the future. You never know what might happen, but I feel good about having the 13th pick as potential trade bait. No one saw Jonathan Allen being there last year....but what if Mayfield or Josh Allen is there this year?[/quote]

Great post.
I agree about there being some really strong talent there at 13. There will be a run of QB's in the top 10, but I feel like Mayfield with his arrest, emotional issues, size concerns and lack of experience in a pro offense like ours, he will drop to us at 13.
Also combined with there being several QB desperate teams that might want or need to give up some value for 13th pick to get a QB.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=dmek25;1187693]are you trolling? because if he couldnt get it done in KC, with all of that offensive fire power they had, it aint happening here[/quote]

No I just feel that confident in his abilities as he's gotten older and wiser, dude is smart on the field. Did you or I even think the Eagles would be a SB contender 2 years ago? No chance in hell. Now look they are in the game.

Also for the love of god it's gotta be our time again eventually right??

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

I still can't believe the poll is 50-50 pretty much, Was Fuller that great to you guys that we couldn't trade him for a top 12 QB? Yes he is a good corner but if he was that great why wouldn't he play outside any? He doesn't have the speed that is why, so he's nothing more than a Nickle or at best a solid #2. Not a big loss IMO

Re: Redskins Trade for Alex Smith
 

Fuller could be a stud in the making but we have depth at CB and the draft coming up.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=#56fanatic;1187703]I haven't posted in years....so its nice to be back.

I don't have a problem with Alex Smith the QB. I'm sure he will be as productive as Kirk (or Kurt depending on who is talking). My issue is this - $71 millions guaranteed to a guy that is 34 years old. this is so the OLD redskins way of over paying for aging guys. [COLOR="Yellow"]And also giving up a promising young corner (remember Champ?)[/COLOR]. And absolutely no attempt to at least dip a toe in the negotiating pool with Kirk. I am guessing $70+ million guaranteed last year would have gotten close or at least given Kirk the feeling that this may be the right place to be. But as usual, Bruce Allen craps on this because he is out to show he is the man in charge.[/quote]

I agree giving up Fuller stings. Remember though Champ wasn't going to resign here anyways. So little different situation. Had to get something for him. From what I heard Broncos were offering a 2nd Rounder and Talib for Smith. If we wanted Smith we had to give up a piece and that was Fuller.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=rickmmrr;1187704][B]Someone mentioned it earlier and I think it's a very good point, no one on the team is crying over the fact that Kirk is leaving.[/B] All of his teammates have realized for a long time that he did not want to be a Redskin.

At some level that has to affect the way, you play the game. It's one thing to be playing the game for the sole reason that I want to be playing the game somewhere else down the road, as opposed to I'm all in completely, this is my team and my teammates and I'm playing to win with everything I have, every single game, every single play.

I saw a conservative Kirk sometimes.

It's like if you have a job and you are just a regular employee and you see someone in "upper management" that is making way more money then you are, and all they do all day is complain about being there. And even if they don't outwardly complain you know they hate being there. That would get old quick.

I'm glad Kirk is leaving for Kirk's sake and for the team sake.[/quote]

Again I would love to know what the deal really was behind the scenes, and as much of a Kirk fan that I am, I wonder if maybe he isn't as nice of a guy as he seems, or perhaps he is a nice guy but far more greedy than he lets on.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1187710]I still can't believe the poll is 50-50 pretty much, Was Fuller that great to you guys that we couldn't trade him for a top 12 QB? Yes he is a good corner but if he was that great why wouldn't he play outside any? He doesn't have the speed that is why, so he's nothing more than a Nickle or at best a solid #2. Not a big loss IMO[/quote]

I think it was just putting people in position to succeed at their strengths. We're potentially losing two (if Breeland goes) pretty damn good starters at DB. I'm more than concerned about that. Moreau was a great ST guy and I think (hope) he can be a good DB.

The idea that all we have under contract right now is a pretty good corner on the wrong side of 30 is really scary to me.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1187717]I think it was just putting people in position to succeed at their strengths. We're potentially losing two (if Breeland goes) pretty damn good starters at DB. I'm more than concerned about that. Moreau was a great ST guy and I think (hope) he can be a good DB.

The idea that all we have under contract right now is a pretty good corner on the wrong side of 30 is really scary to me.[/quote]

hopefully we have a better pass rush to make up for it next yr

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=#56fanatic;1187703]I haven't posted in years....so its nice to be back.

I don't have a problem with Alex Smith the QB. I'm sure he will be as productive as Kirk (or Kurt depending on who is talking). My issue is this - $71 millions guaranteed to a guy that is 34 years old. this is so the OLD redskins way of over paying for aging guys. And also giving up a promising young corner (remember Champ?). And absolutely no attempt to at least dip a toe in the negotiating pool with Kirk. I am guessing $70+ million guaranteed last year would have gotten close or at least given Kirk the feeling that this may be the right place to be. But as usual, Bruce Allen craps on this because he is out to show he is the man in charge.[/quote]

Smith is 33 will be 34 next season and I am not sweating that 71mm guaranteed until we see the contract, I would be willing to bet a large portion of that is injury guarantee which would make this a two year deal in reality.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=hutch17;1187722]Smith is 33 will be 34 next season and I am not sweating that 71mm guaranteed until we see the contract, I would be willing to bet a large portion of that is injury guarantee which would make this a two year deal in reality.[/quote]

Forget what TV guy it was that said it, but I heard only about 17 million of it was guaranteed at time of signing. Somebody on there said essentially it was a two year deal, with the Skins having a way out at year three if need be. Of course we aren't ever going to know until pen gets put to paper and the details are disclosed. It's all speculation until that point

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1187724]Forget what TV guy it was that said it, but I heard only about 17 million of it was guaranteed at time of signing. Somebody on there said essentially it was a two year deal, with the Skins having a way out at year three if need be. Of course we aren't ever going to know until pen gets put to paper and the details are disclosed. It's all speculation until that point[/quote]

i THINK ... it was Mike Wilbon on PTI the other day as I was watching this too.. something like 17 and w.ever mil per year, at 4 years is roughly 68-71 mil

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=Meks;1187725]i THINK ... it was Mike Wilbon on PTI the other day as I was watching this too.. something like 17 and w.ever mil per year, at 4 years is roughly 68-71 mil[/quote]

Yeah. Math checks, but that's just back of the envelope math.

In reality it's probably structured such that:

- The $17M due in 2018 was fully guaranteed

- All money in 2019 and 2020 associated with the new contract was fully guaranteed. Let's assume it's $23M each season.

- There was probably a signing bonus. If you add up the above two bullets, that's $63M guaranteed. So if there was a $8M signing bonus, that gets you to $71M.

That means we've guaranteed him through 2020 (3 years), and we could get away from him after that if we wanted, without cap implications.

I can't know that this is the way it looks, but it's highly likely given Schaffer's MO with bigger contracts.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=Schneed10;1187726]Yeah. Math checks, but that's just back of the envelope math.

In reality it's probably structured such that:

- The $17M due in 2018 was fully guaranteed

- All money in 2019 and 2020 associated with the new contract was fully guaranteed. Let's assume it's $23M each season.

- There was probably a signing bonus. If you add up the above two bullets, that's $63M guaranteed. So if there was a $8M signing bonus, that gets you to $71M.

That means we've guaranteed him through 2020 (3 years), and we could get away from him after that if we wanted, without cap implications.

I can't know that this is the way it looks, but it's highly likely given Schaffer's MO with bigger contracts.[/quote]

So if that's right, he will be a cap hit of around 19M for 2018, 17+2, Right?

Using that plus Overthecap's number it would mean we have about 34M of cap space before any cuts or moves. That is a good number to let us make some competitive FA signings and our own resignings.

What would be the FT number for Zach Brown, does anyone know? Not that I want to go back to FTs ...

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=Schneed10;1187726]Yeah. Math checks, but that's just back of the envelope math.

In reality it's probably structured such that:

- The $17M due in 2018 was fully guaranteed

- All money in 2019 and 2020 associated with the new contract was fully guaranteed. Let's assume it's $23M each season.

- There was probably a signing bonus. If you add up the above two bullets, that's $63M guaranteed. So if there was a $8M signing bonus, that gets you to $71M.

That means we've guaranteed him through 2020 (3 years), and we could get away from him after that if we wanted, without cap implications.

I can't know that this is the way it looks, but it's highly likely given Schaffer's MO with bigger contracts.[/quote]

yea this is a likely scenario and honestly i suppose im comfortable with it - especially if there are some nuances to the verbiage that covers us in case of injury and the like.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1187727]So if that's right, he will be a cap hit of around 19M for 2018, 17+2, Right?

Using that plus Overthecap's number it would mean we have about 34M of cap space before any cuts or moves. That is a good number to let us make some competitive FA signings and our own resignings.

What would be the FT number for Zach Brown, does anyone know? Not that I want to go back to FTs ...[/quote]

Yeah you're right on both counts, under my scenario it would be $19M in 2018 meaning we have $34M of cap space for 2018.

On the FT value for Zach Brown, I don't know the number for 2018, but I know you're not going to like it. In 2017 the tag value for a "linebacker" was $14.5M. The NFL does not distinguish between MLBs and edge rushing LBs in a 3-4 scheme, they're all lumped in together. So Von Miller's astronomical figure counts towards the average in figuring out what a linebacker is worth.

So we'd never want to tag Zach. It wouldn't even be worth it. So that's probably why there seems to be promising movement on the Zach Brown talks, see here:

[url=http://washington.cbslocal.com/2018/02/01/zach-brown-teases-possible-return-to-redskins/]Zach Brown Teases Possible Return to Redskins « CBS DC[/url]

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=Schneed10;1187726]Yeah. Math checks, but that's just back of the envelope math.

In reality it's probably structured such that:

- The $17M due in 2018 was fully guaranteed

- All money in 2019 and 2020 associated with the new contract was fully guaranteed. Let's assume it's $23M each season.

- There was probably a signing bonus. If you add up the above two bullets, that's $63M guaranteed. So if there was a $8M signing bonus, that gets you to $71M.

That means we've guaranteed him through 2020 (3 years), and we could get away from him after that if we wanted, without cap implications.

I can't know that this is the way it looks, but it's highly likely given Schaffer's MO with bigger contracts.[/quote]


It was reported the full 71 million was guaranteed for injury only that they could cut him prior to that for performance reasons.

Re: Redskins Trade for Alex Smith
 

Definitely looking forward to hearing the details of the contract and what the true guarantees are. I’m guessing there will be a team option in there somewhere, maybe after year 3?

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

Not sure why everyone keeps clamoring over KC’s weapons. They’ve typically had three very good skill players, a good OL and JAGs just about everywhere else. We had more weapons than them up until last year AINEC...

Give us a running back who can be the thunder to CT’s lighting and one pass catcher and we’re fine in that regard. Also, slot corners are great and all but if I’m the FO I’m building primarily in the trenches. Give me offensive lineman and front seven players and we can add skill pieces later. Doing it the other way around is putting the cart before the horse...

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

Pretty interesting poll. We are divided right down the middle.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1187756]Pretty interesting poll. We are divided right down the middle.[/quote]

Like we are on just about everything we talk about here

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1187756]Pretty interesting poll. We are divided right down the middle.[/quote]

Also probably reflective of the population as a whole on the Myers Briggs indicator speaking to retrospective vs prospective outlooks.

If you're for it, then you're probably a forward-looking personality who doesn't second guess your decisions. If you're against it, you're probably a retrospective personality who revisits decisions.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

Has anyone actually heard from Alex Smith yet on any of this?

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=Schneed10;1187758]Also probably reflective of the population as a whole on the Myers Briggs indicator speaking to retrospective vs prospective outlooks.

If you're for it, then you're probably a forward-looking personality who doesn't second guess your decisions. If you're against it, you're probably a retrospective personality who revisits decisions.[/quote]

I feel strongly both ways.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=Giantone;1187759]Has anyone actually heard from Alex Smith yet on any of this?[/quote]

He’s not active on social media so we may not until March 14.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=Schneed10;1187772]He’s not active on social media so we may not until March 14.[/quote]

Not active on social media?

I like it.

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1187772]He’s not active on social media so we may not until March 14.[/QUOTE]He's too old for that shit lol.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;1187759]Has anyone actually heard from Alex Smith yet on any of this?[/QUOTE]Yeah he said f the giants

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Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1187777]Yeah he said f the giants

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Zing!


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Re: Redskins Trade for Alex Smith
 

[url]http://washington.cbslocal.com/2018/02/02/salisbury-kirk-cousins-looked-after-stats-more-than-his-team/[/url]

Interesting take. Sorry if already posted.


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Re: Redskins Trade for Alex Smith
 

[QUOTE=Brody81;1187782][url]http://washington.cbslocal.com/2018/02/02/salisbury-kirk-cousins-looked-after-stats-more-than-his-team/[/url]

Interesting take. Sorry if already posted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]


The smear campaign has begun

Re: Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

Well Gruden pretty much called Cousins out on not taking enough shots down field.

I think when Cousins first came here, he was way more of a risk taker. In the end it got him benched. So I think there is some truth to what Salisbury is saying.

Redskins trade for Alex Smith
 

Tops in the league in 2016 as far as pass yards in the air...

[url]https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-cousins-went-deep-more-successfully-in-2016[/url]

Hard to blame him much for 2017 with no real deep threats.

Re: Redskins Trade for Alex Smith
 

[quote=Brody81;1187782][url=http://washington.cbslocal.com/2018/02/02/salisbury-kirk-cousins-looked-after-stats-more-than-his-team/]Salisbury: Kirk Cousins Looked After Stats More Than His Team « CBS DC[/url]

Interesting take. Sorry if already posted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

Sean Salisbury is an asshole.He makes up shit to sound relevant.
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Salisbury[/url]