Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

[quote=dmek25;1191288]same old skins. find 5 million per for a 31 year old, injury prone corner. but let hankins walk. we havent had run stoppers since butz, grant?[/quote]

Wait, I thought the same old skins was signing an unmotivated salary cap nightmare named Haynesworth the minute after FA started. I am so confused.

I don't like the Scandrick signing, but he's not AH, or Archuleta.

People need to look past the QB drama and see that this FO has been and is building the team the right way, draft with FAs as fills and at good cap numbers. Not every FA player wants to accept a deal that is good cap wise, and not every player that is willing to is going to fit within the team that they are building.

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

per Keim

[quote]John Keim
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@john_keim
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As you could imagine, $$ the big hangup with Hankins. Word was last year he asked for quite a bit; didn't get it; unsigned until April 13; essentially 1 year deal. Be curious to see where this goes with him and how long it takes[/quote]

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

How much $$ do you folks think he's worth?

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

$9M a year

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1191299]$9M a year[/QUOTE]Yep. Wouldn't be upset at 10 assuming cap hit was around 9 this year. It would be nice to get him on a 3-4 year deal.

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1191300]Yep. Wouldn't be upset at 10 assuming cap hit was around 9 this year. It would be nice to get him on a 3-4 year deal.[/quote]

I was thinking that $10M per year on a 3 year contract should get it done. I don't know why.

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1191302]I was thinking that $10M per year on a 3 year contract should get it done. I don't know why.[/QUOTE] Probably because that's what he got last year.

I understand the hesitance to pay for a player that's part of a rotation, but they've got 3 big holes to fill still and only 2 picks in the first 3 rounds. LG, RB, and NT.

The draft has multiple good top end prospects at all of these positions, but less DTs than OGs or RBs.

RB free agent class was weak to begin with. The answer isn't there in FA. So this has to come from the draft. There's 1 of your top 2 picks.

There were some viable starters in FA. They're about dried up at this point, and they were always going to be too expensive considering what you will have to pay BS in the next 2 years. So, there's 2.

DT is the logical place to spend some money in FA. There's talent available, and you can afford it especially if you cut McClain. They'll fill the spot with someone, but I hope it's not another scrub. I assume they're pinching these pennies to resign BS, JC, and PS. Would you take Hankins over any of them? It's a tough call.

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Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

[QUOTE=WillH;1191303]Probably because that's what he got last year.

I understand the hesitance to pay for a player that's part of a rotation, but they've got 3 big holes to fill still and only 2 picks in the first 3 rounds. LG, RB, and NT.

The draft has multiple good top end prospects at all of these positions, but less DTs than OGs or RBs.

RB free agent class was weak to begin with. The answer isn't there in FA. So this has to come from the draft. There's 1 of your top 2 picks.

There were some viable starters in FA. They're about dried up at this point, and they were always going to be too expensive considering what you will have to pay BS in the next 2 years. So, there's 2.

DT is the logical place to spend some money in FA. There's talent available, and you can afford it especially if you cut McClain. They'll fill the spot with someone, but I hope it's not another scrub. I assume they're pinching these pennies to resign BS, JC, and PS. Would you take Hankins over any of them? It's a tough call.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]Right now I think they are letting the players find the market. Right now Bennie Logan, Hankins and Suh are feeling out the teams, I dont think we want Suh but still he us part of Hankins market value.

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

I think $10M even is ok for us to pay because he's still so young and our need at this position is so high. He would be a perfect fit for the weakest area on our team.

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I agree on the $10 million a year for Hankins, tired of us putting garbage out there at that position and getting pushed back on a consistent basis

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

Lets just get Hankins. We can all then just relax until the draft. C'mon.

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

Ok, 10mil might not be too much for his talent and our need, but still would you pay him that if it meant next year you lose Scherff, P Smith, or Crowder?

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Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

[quote=WillH;1191311]Ok, 10mil might not be too much for his talent and our need, but still would you pay him that if it meant next year you lose Scherff, P Smith, or Crowder?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk[/quote]

Crowder certainly hasn’t earned an extension, P. Smith hasn’t put it fully together yet and Scherff extension will probably get done sooner than later.

Make or break for Smith and while it’s great to prepare we shouldn’t penalize ourself from a difference maker in the middle that has held back this defense for years.

Last year and previous...we really haven’t had a problem getting pressure.

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I'm not sure why some people still aren't fan of Smith? There is much more to pass rusher than just sacks - QB pressures and stopping rushing plays. I think he improved significantly last year. I expect to see big year for him this season.

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

[QUOTE=GridIron26;1191313]I'm not sure why some people still aren't fan of Smith? There is much more to pass rusher than just sacks - QB pressures and stopping rushing plays. I think he improved significantly last year. I expect to see big year for him this season.[/QUOTE]


He’s definitely worth locking up long term, no doubt

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

Back on Hankins, I still have not seen that he is visiting other teams. Has anyone else seen where he has gone?

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1191312]Crowder certainly hasn’t earned an extension, P. Smith hasn’t put it fully together yet and Scherff extension will probably get done sooner than later.

Make or break for Smith and while it’s great to prepare we shouldn’t penalize ourself from a difference maker in the middle that has held back this defense for years.

Last year and previous...we really haven’t had a problem getting pressure.[/QUOTE]Agreed.
Plus Scherff is not a FA before 2020. Hope we extend him this season.

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Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

[quote=GridIron26;1191313]I'm not sure why some people still aren't fan of Smith? There is much more to pass rusher than just sacks - QB pressures and stopping rushing plays. [B]I think he improved significantly last year.[/B] I expect to see big year for him this season.[/quote]

He improved from Sucks to Below Average. We can do much better. I'd rather spend on some other player. Sacks is what teams pay for at his position. But I did hear that he's good to his mother. How much is that worth against the salary cap?

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

[url=http://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/need-know-its-science-preston-smith-one-nfls-top-pass-rushers]Need to Know: It's science--Preston Smith is one of the NFL's top pass rushers | NBC Sports Washington[/url]

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

Pressures means you didn't get there for the sack. Sacks are huge plays that put the other team in negative yardage situations. Sometimes sacks cause fumbles and turnovers.

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

[quote=MTK;1191318][url=http://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/need-know-its-science-preston-smith-one-nfls-top-pass-rushers]Need to Know: It's science--Preston Smith is one of the NFL's top pass rushers | NBC Sports Washington[/url][/quote]

OR NKorea hacked the NFL GPS system to make PSmith better!?!?! It's POSSIBLE

[quote]The data does not come from someone with a pen and notepad watching the All-22 from NFL Game Pass. Next Gen Stats are generated from the precise GPS chips that are located in each player’s pads. If the pass rusher is within a certain distance of the quarterback at the time the pass is released, he is credited with a pressure.[/quote]

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1191315]Back on Hankins, I still have not seen that he is visiting other teams. Has anyone else seen where he has gone?[/quote]

apparently he's visiting Detroit:

[url]https://twitter.com/FieldYates/status/976458010653609984[/url]

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;1191319]Pressures means you didn't get there for the sack. Sacks are huge plays that put the other team in negative yardage situations. Sometimes sacks cause fumbles and turnovers.[/QUOTE]


Pressures are valuable too as far as disrupting the pocket, forcing a bad decision, etc. And he’s got 20.5 sacks in his first 3 years. He’s a good young player who’s only getting better.

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

certainly wasn't knocking P Smith in my post...he's a good young player. I don't think he's been consistent throughout the season and struggles vs the run. He's getting better year by year and hopefully has that breakout season...I think we all here want that. I wouldn't mind seeing him getting extending...it doesn't affect the Hankins pursuit and shouldn't.

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

[quote=MTK;1191322]Pressures are valuable too as far as disrupting the pocket, forcing a bad decision, etc. And he’s got 20.5 sacks in his first 3 years. He’s a good young player who’s only getting better.[/quote]

I choose to believe my eyes over a computer chip. Smith has had some of the cheapest sacks I've ever seen where he's stonewalled at the LOS, the QB runs, and Smith tackles him one yard behind the LOS. Half of Smith's sacks come from another player chasing the QB into him. Pressures are like having sex without getting a ...

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

I think Preston Smith is a solid young player. We have not had our defense healthy and altogether yet. If we get the nose tackle we so desperately need, and have our other guys healthy, I think you'll start to see the full potential of Preston Smith. I've seen our defense much, much worse. I think you hang on to guys like Smith.

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

Every morning I hope I wake up to the news we signed Hankins.

In regards to keeping other guys, you worry about that when the time comes. There are always new ways each year to clear some cap space.

Definitley have to re-sign BS, based on where he was drafted, and how he has played.

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1191319]Pressures means you didn't get there for the sack. Sacks are huge plays that put the other team in negative yardage situations. Sometimes sacks cause fumbles and turnovers.[/quote]

Well yes, but sometimes it means you forced him into another defensive players arms, Kerrigan had 13 sacks, or forced him to step up and make a bad pass. Hard to be dismissive of a guy who is consistently getting into the qb's pressure zone. Some QBs might not be affected - Brady for example, but others like Eli definitely are.

Sacks are one measure, Pressures have their use too.

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

You don't typically let young ascending pass rushers get away. I imagine Preston gets extended too.

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1191324]I choose to believe my eyes over a computer chip. Smith has had some of the cheapest sacks I've ever seen where he's stonewalled at the LOS, the QB runs, and Smith tackles him one yard behind the LOS. Half of Smith's sacks come from another player chasing the QB into him. Pressures are like having sex without getting a ...[/quote]

Sounds like you need glasses then...

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

[quote=Chico23231;1191323]certainly wasn't knocking P Smith in my post...he's a good young player. I don't think he's been consistent throughout the season and struggles vs the run. He's getting better year by year and hopefully has that breakout season...I think we all here want that. I wouldn't mind seeing him getting extending...it doesn't affect the Hankins pursuit and shouldn't.[/quote]

This.
Not deminishing the big value of sacks. But today's NFL puts too much emphasis on the sack stat.
Watching film and seeing if he reads run/pass quickly, does the selfless hard work like tieing up blockers on run plays, maintaining gap responsibility, holding his ground are also very important.
What good is a sack if he gets burned on run plays. So many pass rushers of today misread run plays or don't even try to play run defense and blow gap responsibility and get burned. They only care about sacks because that is where the money is.
It is very coachable.
I like Smith and hope he continues to improve

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

[quote=sevier2;1191330]Sounds like you need glasses then...[/quote]

Shot glasses, maybe. I expected to be in the minority on the topic of Smith. That's OK. We haven't had a dominant pass rusher in so long that most of you have forgotten what one looks like.

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1191332]Shot glasses, maybe. I expected to be in the minority on the topic of Smith. That's OK. We haven't had a dominant pass rusher in so long that most of you have forgotten what one looks like.[/quote]

I agree that he is not elite, and neither is Kerrigan, but most teams don't have elite rushers because they are one of the hardest things to find. So you have to have as many good/solid rushers as you can get.

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1191318][url=http://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/need-know-its-science-preston-smith-one-nfls-top-pass-rushers]Need to Know: It's science--Preston Smith is one of the NFL's top pass rushers | NBC Sports Washington[/url][/QUOTE]

[url]http://cdn.stationcaster.com/stations/wtem/media/mpeg/03_21_18_Cooley___Kevin_HR_1-1521642484.mp3[/url]

From 30.15, Cooley and Kevin comment this stat.
Chris went through some of his breakdowns.
He identified several ways to make plays that will be recorded as pressures by Next Gen Stats (they consider it a pressure if the player is close to the QB when the pass is thrown)... but are uneffective-lazy-useless plays.

Cooley also made a really good point: if Smith really is a top pass rusher, out of the many passing plays he had, out of all these statistical pressures, how come he didn't get to the QB more?

Don't get me wrong, I like Smith, I hope he stays here, he improved last year, having a good DL will help him, but he's not a top 10 pass rusher.

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

Not many teams have truly dominant rushers, just like only a few have true elite QBs.

You can certainly have a heck of a rush though with a stout DL and guys like Kerrigan and Smith coming off the edge.

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

Allen, Hankins/Vea/Payne, Ioannidis, Smith, Foster, Brown, and Kerrigan would be a very solid front 7. Get one of those 3 for the middle please!

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

It's worth pointing out that in 2016 Brandon Graham was listed as one of these players like Smith who had tons of pressures but didn't have big sack numbers. And then this year he rakes in sack numbers and strip-sacks Brady to seal the win in the Super Bowl.

Not saying that will happen, but pressures are an indicator that the player is close. The question is can Preston take that final step like Brandon Graham has.

Or did Brandon Graham play like his usual self, but get more help from Fletcher Cox pushing up the middle in 2017? Cox had a much better year in 2017 than 2016.

If Jonathan Allen is healthy all of 2018, what will Smith look like? What will Kerrigan look like?

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1191334][url]http://cdn.stationcaster.com/stations/wtem/media/mpeg/03_21_18_Cooley___Kevin_HR_1-1521642484.mp3[/url]

From 30.15, Cooley and Kevin comment this stat.
Chris went through some of his breakdowns.
He identified several ways to make plays that will be recorded as pressures by Next Gen Stats (they consider it a pressure if the player is close to the QB when the pass is thrown)... but are uneffective-lazy-useless plays.

Cooley also made a really good point: if Smith really is a top pass rusher, out of the many passing plays he had, out of all these statistical pressures, how come he didn't get to the QB more?

Don't get me wrong, I like Smith, I hope he stays here, he improved last year, having a good DL will help him, but he's not a top 10 pass rusher.[/quote]

Sounds like Cooley needs glasses, too.

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

[quote=Schneed10;1191337]It's worth pointing out that in 2016 Brandon Graham was listed as one of these players like Smith who had tons of pressures but didn't have big sack numbers. And then this year he rakes in sack numbers and strip-sacks Brady to seal the win in the Super Bowl.

Not saying that will happen, but pressures are an indicator that the player is close. The question is can Preston take that final step like Brandon Graham has.

Or did Brandon Graham play like his usual self, but get more help from Fletcher Cox pushing up the middle in 2017? Cox had a much better year in 2017 than 2016.

If Jonathan Allen is healthy all of 2018, what will Smith look like? What will Kerrigan look like?[/quote]
This is what I was thinking. You have to be close to even have a shot at getingt a sack, IF you are consistently getting close can you learn the next step and get the sack/strip more consistently?

This is where the coaching staff has to know if a player is going to step up, or has he maxed out, before you extend him.

Re: Redskins free agent signings 2018
 

Smith is what he is at this point and that is a solid number 2 Edge rusher. Nothing more.