Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

If we trade down it would have to be the Phins else I'd say we risk trading too far down to get the players we actually want. It's always a risk that you think you'll have an embarrassment of riches then find the guys you actually want/need are gone before you pick at the new slots. I'd take CY as its almost a sure thing plus it would avoid having to face him twice a year if the Giants grab him. But if the picks we got allowed us to take Simmons, a solid WR and an OL talent I could live with it. To me you don't give up on the best talent in the draft unless you are confident in getting the right guys with the picks you swap for. I can't see ahyone but the Phins being able to offer enough.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

John Clayton said it best this morning on the morning drive Sirius XM "Right now nobody knows what Ron is going to have in store, I've heard Chase is a lock then Tua is possible and now a trade"

I will say it makes for a fun drat night!

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1248429]John Clayton said it best this morning on the morning drive Sirius XM "Right now nobody knows what Ron is going to have in store, I've heard Chase is a lock then Tua is possible and now a trade"

I will say it makes for a fun drat night![/quote]

Glad we're 2nd so this can be over with. I want happy drinking. Couldn't handle having to wait hours.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

Our 2020 FA went so poorly that they’re thinking of trading the #2 draft spot. Even with $66 mill in FA the team was only able to get Fuller and not much else, except for “depth players” and other players on one-year deals that they hope they can turn into a starter or two. Pretty weak FA.

I will cry every time Chase Young destroys Haskins if we trade our #2 draft pick. But that pain will be lessened if we can get Isaiah Simmons and Andrew Thomas and a speedster WR #2 from Miami’s picks.


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Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

Simmons,Thomas and Top speedy Wr for chase .... I would do that for sure !!

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=rocnrik;1248477]Simmons,Thomas and Top speedy Wr for chase .... I would do that for sure !![/quote]

Are you emotionally prepared to see Chase Young go #3 to Detroit and Isaiah Simmons go #4 to the GIANTS!!! before we pick? That would be very likely to happen.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

Amazing how people fall for the pre draft smoke and mirrors thing each and every time


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Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=MTK;1248485]Amazing how people fall for the pre draft smoke and mirrors thing each and every time


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It is amazing isn't it? Just waiting to see Chase and Montez chase QBs like a horror movie.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=MTK;1248485]Amazing how people fall for the pre draft smoke and mirrors thing each and every time


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Also gives us all something to talk about other than the doom and gloom virus

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

I would be very concerned drafting Isiah Simmons early...outside the QB and Young, the only guy I would considering drafting in the first five picks is CB Jeff Okudah.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

I think the team's weak results in free agency do make the trade down a bit more likely. After the failed free agency we still have so many needs that I can see the appeal of adding at least 3 starters thru the draft. And I am a big Chase Young fan.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1248490]I would be very concerned drafting Isiah Simmons early...outside the QB and Young, the only guy I would considering drafting in the first five picks is CB Jeff Okudah.[/quote]

I agree, I've seen tape on both and Okudah is the better more sure player. Simmons is kinda like a Derwin James type , he's going to have to fit in the right scheme.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[QUOTE=Ohioskins;1248493]I think the team's weak results in free agency do make the trade down a bit more likely. After the failed free agency we still have so many needs that I can see the appeal of adding at least 3 starters thru the draft. And I am a big Chase Young fan.[/QUOTE]


I don’t agree at all and if that’s the way this front office is thinking it’s a flat out bad plan and very short sighted


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Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=MTK;1248495]I don’t agree at all and if that’s the way this front office is thinking it’s a flat out bad plan and very short sighted


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They would have to have an offer that they couldn't refuse IMO.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

Chase Young is the only non-QB player in this draft who could [U]transform[/U] a unit, a side of the ball, or even a team. I'm not talking about making us better. Instead, I'm saying that he has the ability to be the catalyst that transforms our DL into a Top 5 unit. So, no thank you to a trade.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1248494]I agree, I've seen tape on both and Okudah is the better more sure player. Simmons is kinda like a Derwin James type , he's going to have to fit in the right scheme.[/quote]

He is Diet Caffeine Free Derwin James, James was a S for most of his career. Simmons doesn't have a set position as of now but will have to play S because he isn't strong enough to consistently break off blocks as a LB. Also, I genuinely do not think he is as good a player as Chase Young is. Not at all.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1248496]They would have to have an offer that they couldn't refuse IMO.[/quote]

It would have to be all 3 first rounders and a 1st in 2021 and then we can talk

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1248499]It would have to be all 3 first rounders and a 1st in 2021 and then we can talk[/quote]

There is no talking at that point lol It's robbery and we are taking it. The draft is a crapshoot no matter who we all think is a "Sure thing". Injuries can happen to anyone, or just the level is much harder. If you have 3 first round picks compared to just 1, you have much better odds of landing a superstar

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1248498]He is Diet Caffeine Free Derwin James, James was a S for most of his career. Simmons doesn't have a set position as of now but will have to play S because he isn't strong enough to consistently break off blocks as a LB. Also, I genuinely do not think he is as good a player as Chase Young is. Not at all.[/quote]

That's for sure, Chase is the better player no doubt. I also really like Patrick Queen

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=Ohioskins;1248493]I think the team's weak results in free agency do make the trade down a bit more likely. After the failed free agency we still have so many needs that I can see the appeal of adding at least 3 starters thru the draft. And I am a big Chase Young fan.[/quote]

I disagree that it has been a failed free agency. Why do you think that, because the team didn't overpay for Hooper and Cooper? I'm happy they didn't. It's obvious they had a plan, and a budget, and stuck to it. So far they have added a lot of quality players to compete for starting roles and provide depth, and there's still over three weeks until the draft.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1248502]That's for sure, Chase is the better player no doubt. I also really like Patrick Queen[/quote]

He is probably going end of the first round, latest early second

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

I think that it is a failed free agency because, other than Fuller, they did nothing significant to improve the team, particularly on offense. And Fuller is offset by the loss of Dunbar. It is nice to acquire "depth" meaning guys who are not good enough to start on an NFL team. The offensive line is a disaster, the tight end situation is a joke. And frankly, the secondary does not look much better than last year and last year was not very good. This is a last place team in the NFL East.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1248483]Are you emotionally prepared to see Chase Young go #3 to Detroit and Isaiah Simmons go #4 to the GIANTS!!! before we pick? That would be very likely to happen.[/quote]

We would take Okudah (sp) the Top Corner, or the top LT, so yeah if it happens I would be ok.

So many great options, RR/KS will have to work hard to screw this draft (at least the first round) up.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1248503]I disagree that it has been a failed free agency. Why do you think that, because the team didn't overpay for Hooper and Cooper? I'm happy they didn't. It's obvious they had a plan, and a budget, and stuck to it. So far they have added a lot of quality players to compete for starting roles and provide depth, and there's still over three weeks until the draft.[/quote]

Exactly, even without the virus shortened workouts/off season practices, this season was going to be RR's breaking the culture season. No need to go hog wild in FA. Bring in a lot of NFL level talent (not stars), and let them compete. Build the strong nucleus that will form our team for the next 3-4 years, and then use cap space next year if there is a key element found lacking.

I am excited to see what RR/KS build here.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=Ohioskins;1248516]I think that it is a failed free agency because, other than Fuller, they did nothing significant to improve the team, particularly on offense. And Fuller is offset by the loss of Dunbar. It is nice to acquire "depth" meaning guys who are not good enough to start on an NFL team. The offensive line is a disaster, the tight end situation is a joke. And frankly, the secondary does not look much better than last year and last year was not very good. This is a last place team in the NFL East.[/quote]

Hooper or Cooper alone weren't going to change things drastically.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=MTK;1248520]Hooper or Cooper alone weren't going to change things drastically.[/quote]


Agreed.

I think we dodged a bullet with Cooper. And Hooper? He's a nice tight end. But he's not the best TE in the NFL, which is what he's getting paid as.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

I specifically mentioned the horrid offensive line. We have 2 starters and the rest is a bunch of retreads and junk. Good luck Mr. Haskins running for your life.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=Ohioskins;1248537]I specifically mentioned the horrid offensive line. We have 2 starters and the rest is a bunch of retreads and junk. Good luck Mr. Haskins running for your life.[/quote]

Well, they signed Cornelius Lucas, Jeremy Vujnovich, and Wes Schweitzer along with bringing back Scherff; they signed Richard Rodgers and Logan Thomas for TE. There's more at the TE position currently than there was last year...

Nothing super sexy, but there's a lot of youth and versatility on the O-line. The TW situation is still yet to be determined, but he will either play for the Redskins (not likely), or they'll bring in a Veteran or draft his replacement (maybe both). Overall I don't think they're looking too bad there, could be better, but it takes two to tango with regard to free agency...

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

The Miami Herald is reporting the Dolphins will make a push for the #1 pick. - Armando Salguero

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=MTK;1248520]Hooper or Cooper alone weren't going to change things drastically.[/quote]

[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/l0HlvtIPzPdt2usKs/giphy.gif[/IMG]

Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

I still hope they draft Chase Young and think they will.

I thought the Redskins would try to pick up above average and very good FA players like Hooper, Boston, Fuller while resigning Scherff, Flowers and maybe Williams. When the Dunbar issue came up I thought they’d give him the guaranteed money he wanted.

Instead, the Redskins went “all in” for a SINGLE STAR - Cooper. Cooper is a Superstar but he was going to absorb over 30% of the cap money. The team also made an half-ass effort to get Hooper and Flowers but stuck to a pre-determined price for each. Miami outbid us by $2 mill yr for Flowers and Cleveland outbid us by $.5 mill for Hooper.

It’s easy to say, “ Hooper is getting the top TE money but he’s NOT an elite TE.” True. “We held the line on how much we were going to pay him.” True. But he was THE BEST TE in FA. We NEEDED Hooper DESPERATELY to start to rebuild our TE guys. He was a very good blocker, pass catcher and he was not injured much. Since we missed on Hooper, and since Davis is retired and Reed is gone, the Redskins had to bottom feed for cheap TE’s left in FA. Unless we are VERY, VERY LUCKY, we can’t improve our TE in the draft. The best TE draft picks will be long gone by the time our third round pick comes up. Rivera was willing to go way over budget for Cooper, but then held the line for Hooper and Flowers.

Holding the line for FA salaries is a very good strategy. It worked for the Patriots. But the Patriots had the greatest QB of all time playing for just an average QB salary, year-after-year. Also, because the Pats kept competing toward the SB, elite players would go to NE at bargain basement salaries just to get a ring.

On the other side of the FA strategy was the Redskins, who vastly overpaid for big-name players who were usually past their prime and generally playing so they didn’t get hurt. Players came to Washington to “cash in”. Rivera is right to change 20 years of Snyder/Allen/Cerrato’s failed FA strategy. But IN THE BEGINNING of this culture change, the Redskins might need to throw in a little extra money to get players to buy into this franchise until we start winning. The Redskins couldn’t add $1 mill to capture Hooper? The Redskins couldn’t offer Dunbar some guaranteed money to KEEP one of the BEST CB’s in the NFL? Instead we let him go for a fifth round draft pick!!

The Redskins need to rebuild this team with a mixture of young and talented FA, a couple old guys with some fuel for one or two good seasons (like AP) and finally by keeping their draft picks and then making good draft picks with them.

This first FA season did not go well IMO. Here’s the FA score: lost Dunbar, Flowers, Williams (assumed). These three were good to outstanding players. We were outbid for Cooper and Hooper. We picked up just ONE very good player: Fuller. We kept Scherff with a franchise tag of $16.1 mill. Getting just Fuller and Scherff with over $66 mill in cap space is all we did?. If we trade Williams’s then we got those two players for $72 mill in cap.

Bruce Allen always went for the big name and paid big bucks to get him. The team never had any depth and these overpaid players offer were hurt.

This season RR’s “Plan B”, after Cooper stayed at Dallas, was to bottom scrap the barnacle FA players with cheap, one-year contracts. Worst-Case, the team will have very good depth for the first time in 20 years. We’ll get surprised by a few decent starters, like we saw with Flowers. The team missed with Hooper but has five TE candidates already, plus a few more low TE draft picks / UDFA. With 7-8 TE in TC, we’ll get lucky with someone. The team already has 7 WR, plus adding more in the draft/UDFA. The team already has MacLaurin and Sims, Jr as very good-outstanding starters. All we need is just one guy to come in as our WR #2.

Next year the team has to do better in FA. The $30 mill left in cap space that is NOT SPENT this season DOESN’T carry over to next year. Putting all your eggs toward JUST ONE ELITE FA is a poor plan if you don’t actually hire him. Especially if your Plan B is fairly weak. Since RR got burned by going after a big star player in FA, we’ll see if this effects his decision about drafting Chase Young versus trading for a couple high draft picks. I don’t think Miami will make us an offer for the #2 pick. They can sit back and get Tua at #5 and still keep all their draft picks. Chase Young will wear the Burgundy and Gold this season!


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Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

It's been said on here already, but I'll say it again...it's BS that the Redskins significantly outbid the Cowgirls for Amari Cooper. If they were "all-in" on him, then perhaps they would have...but they only offered him $23mil guaranteed, while the Cowturds offered him $60mil in guarantees. Tough decision right?

I think they entered free agency with a plan, and knew what their value of each player was, and how that price figured into the long term plans, and they STUCK (ARE STICKING) TO THE PLAN!

I'm a fan of that...

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

So their plan going into free agency was to spend next to nothing and to make no significant improvements in the team ?????? You know, I am NOT ok with that. I am not saying that they had to spend like crazy up to the cap. But I am saying they could have tried to add starting level talent to the team rather than adding a bunch of injured, re-tread and "never was" players and hoping to catch lighting in a bottle. I mean, look at the offensive line ......... it is bad joke. And a threat to the health of Haskins.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

Chief X, the biggest play of Schwietzer's season is where he did not pick up a blitz and almost got Ryan killed. The biggest play of Vujnovich was .......... Well there was no biggest play of his season because he is a journey man back up lineman, not a starter.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

I suspect RR is worried about us replicating the Rams and going SB or bust so wasn't going to go all out in FA, especially with a thin crop. But I agree that we've been too cautious. We needed to strengthen at least at CB, FS, 2 or 3 LB spots, TE, WR and OL, particularly TE and OL. For me, if they decided to go all out on D we'd have at least picked up the likes of Boston, Littleton, Schobel and Jones, leaving the draft to pick up O. Instead we made a 70% effort to sign Cooper, 90% effort for Hooper and missed out on the best LB and DB prospects. So we have depth, and maybe there is a lot to be said for the impact of character and culture across the whole team. But I agree we missed out on 2-3 ideal guys at least and I'm not sure why. As said, we can't carry across cap space so what are we going to do with so much spare sloshing around this year? Who's coming up in FA next year to warrant avoiding expensive multi year contracts this year? Are we looking to make a few pre/post draft trades that eat up cap?

I like the idea of playing our cards close to our chest, but we're in danger of telling the rest of the league we don't actually have a hand if we're not careful.

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=Ohioskins;1248563]Chief X, the biggest play of Schwietzer's season is where he did not pick up a blitz and almost got Ryan killed. The biggest play of Vujnovich was .......... Well there was no biggest play of his season because he is a journey man back up lineman, not a starter.[/quote]

That goes with being an OL, they are always only noticed when they screw up....

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1248564]I suspect RR is worried about us replicating the Rams and going SB or bust so wasn't going to go all out in FA, especially with a thin crop. But I agree that we've been too cautious. We needed to strengthen at least at CB, FS, 2 or 3 LB spots, TE, WR and OL, particularly TE and OL. For me, if they decided to go all out on D we'd have at least picked up the likes of Boston, Littleton, Schobel and Jones, leaving the draft to pick up O. Instead we made a 70% effort to sign Cooper, 90% effort for Hooper and missed out on the best LB and DB prospects. So we have depth, and maybe there is a lot to be said for the impact of character and culture across the whole team. But I agree we missed out on 2-3 ideal guys at least and I'm not sure why. [B]As said, we can't carry across cap space so[/B] what are we going to do with so much spare sloshing around this year? Who's coming up in FA next year to warrant avoiding expensive multi year contracts this year? Are we looking to make a few pre/post draft trades that eat up cap?

I like the idea of playing our cards close to our chest, but we're in danger of telling the rest of the league we don't actually have a hand if we're not careful.[/quote]

Where has it been stated that cap space cant be carried forward? That would be a big change from previous seasons

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

Biggest improvements will come from coaching, this year is needed to establish the new regime, with everything else going on and a lack of draft picks there is not going to be a lot of chance to gain ground on the leading teams, they need to establish the core team rather than spend a fortune on average players

Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

[QUOTE=Ohioskins;1248562]So their plan going into free agency was to spend next to nothing and to make no significant improvements in the team ?????? You know, I am NOT ok with that. I am not saying that they had to spend like crazy up to the cap. But I am saying they could have tried to add starting level talent to the team rather than adding a bunch of injured, re-tread and "never was" players and hoping to catch lighting in a bottle. I mean, look at the offensive line ......... it is bad joke. And a threat to the health of Haskins.[/QUOTE]I think their plan is to see what this roster can do and bring in competition to see who steps up. And i am ok with that.

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Re: Chase Young or Three First Round Picks?
 

1. RR has made it crystal clear that he intends to build this team through the draft.

2. Free Agency isn't over yet. We can still add a good stopgap LT on a 1 year deal, for example.

3. After over two decades of inept FA deals, we Redskins fans can't even grasp what RR is trying to do in FA. I really don't feel like going into detail about why I think he's doing the right thing in FA but just remember my first point: He intends to build through the draft. If you just put the players he has added in categories, you'll see more clearly what he is doing. Most of these players won't be here in one or two years but we have to play an NFL schedule as we improve and RR wants to build the team without being absolutely horrible in the process.

4. We're not done trading people and picking up more draft picks. I believe that Trent Williams will be traded prior to the draft, probably for multiple picks. Ryan Kerrigan may be traded, as well.

5. RR is gonna build this team the right way. It's not going to happen overnight and he sure as hell isn't going to do it the way we're used to seeing business done around here.

This has been one man's opinion.